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View Full Version : Is this posible? (Cheesy master of shrouds entrance that needs clarification)



Giegue
2010-02-05, 10:48 PM
I had a thought, that as an early and VERY cheesy entrance to master of shrouds at level 4 one could take 2 cloistered cleric and one level of cleric or vice versa. The reason? Only one skipped caster level instead of 2 and also, the part that I need clarified. If you where to multiclass in that fashion, would your rebuking and CL stack? Or would you basically get double the amount of low level spells and double the amount of rebuking instead of increased CL and more powerful rebuking? My second question is if this entry is even posible? I mean, can you actually count cleric/cloistered cleric as a "multiclass" character for the purpose of will saves?

Any light shed on these questions would be helpful, as I seek to try and create an evil master of shrouds who dose not lose 2 CLs to take the class at level 4, and without Chruch Inquisitor(Which makes it so you WILL be neutral) that seams like an impossible task.

TheOOB
2010-02-05, 11:05 PM
Cloistered cleric is a varient class of the cleric, not a unique class, ergo you can't take both.

It's the same reason you can't take two levels of fighter, get two bonus feats, then take two levels of a different fighter, gain two more bonus feats and so on. Cloistered cleric is just an option, just like TWF and Archery are options for rangers.

Giegue
2010-02-05, 11:14 PM
Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Koury
2010-02-05, 11:24 PM
I must say, for what its worth, I believe Cloistered Cleric and Cleric to be different classes. You'd only get more turns if you had one give you Rebuke and the other Turn, however. They'd also have separate casting, similar to Sorc/Wiz.

Kylarra
2010-02-05, 11:30 PM
You'd also still be losing 2 caster levels from whatever you consider your primary side, even assuming they are treated as separate classes.

EnnPeeCee
2010-02-06, 12:19 AM
Multiclassing And Variant Classes

Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).

Cloistered Cleric should fall under what is described in the second half, and therefor is just fine to multiclass into.

Koury
2010-02-06, 12:21 AM
It also says turns would stack. Hmm... I'd have thought they'd need to be different (Rebuke vs Turn). *shrug* Cool.

tyckspoon
2010-02-06, 01:01 AM
It also says turns would stack. Hmm... I'd have thought they'd need to be different (Rebuke vs Turn). *shrug* Cool.

The usefulness of that depends on what you interpret it to mean by stacking Rebuke Undead. The most-probably-correct way is that you just add your Cloistered Cleric level to your Cleric level to find your effective Cleric level; you wouldn't get another set of 3+Cha Rebuke uses, as that wouldn't be stacking- that would be getting Rebuke Undead (Cleric) and Rebuke Undead (Cloistered Cleric) as separate abilities. That is, I'm pretty sure your original intuition of how that works is correct; if you want an extra-deep Turning pool, say for powering Divine or Domain feats, then you need different Turn abilities such as are acquired by a Neutral Cleric/Cloistered Cleric picking Turn and Rebuke for his two classes.

Koury
2010-02-06, 01:06 AM
EDIT: I was pseudo-ninja'd by your edit :smallsmile:

Hmm...

+1d6 Sneak Attack (Rogue) stacks 100% with +1d6 Sneak Attack (Blackguard). It doesn't simply advance your 'effective Sneak Attack level.'

I'd personally probably say that they are indeed separate, but I'd let my players know I was watching them, especially if there was DMM around.

Thats simply my opinion, however. :smallbiggrin:

Sophismata
2010-02-06, 12:50 PM
Since turn undead is an identical class feature, you add both cloistered cleric and cleric levels to determine your turn undead level. You don't get extra turning attempts.

If you are neutral and decide on a turning/rebuking method, I'd rule that that decision carries across all relevant abilities - see the existing precedent with familiars and animal companions.

Spellcasting is, of course, determined separately.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-06, 01:53 PM
You could instead go Cloistered Cleric 2/ Dread Necromancer 1 to qualify, and the levels would stack for your effective Rebuke Undead level. That would allow you to use wands and staffs of DN spells, and even Eternal Wands, plus you'd get the at-will negative energy touch which heals undead. Take Tomb-Tainted Soul and you can use it to heal yourself to full between encounters for free.