[3.5] Build Suggestions Please

[Occasional Sage]

I have an upcoming campaign which will be nautical: lots of sailing, ship-to-ship combat, carousing in pirate coves, et cetera. Just to be contrary I'm wanting to play a dwarven pirate/privateer, but have no idea which way to go with this. Any suggestions?

Specifically, we'll be starting at third level. I'd prefer not to play a primary caster, but I'm open to playing one if I can avoid being CoDzilla/Batman. Our GM has mentioned that he's planning to adapt the Master and Commander-style life <i>and combat</i> to the existence of magic, though he hasn't been too clear about what that means, so we should be adaptable and well-rounded.

Ideas? Hit me with anything!

[Glimbur]

Dwarf Bard into Dread Pirate. It's not optimal;Sublime Chord would be a better PrC for spell casting and Dwarf hits your Cha unless you use a weird variant, but you should still do well enough. Focus on your Inspire Courage, though Words of Creation from Book of Exalted Deeds might be hard to keep. IC can be really nice if you have a whole crew attacking something.

[CTLC]

well, incarnate 1 could be good for cerulean sandals, although other ways to walk on water can be achieved. be a hengeyokai, or get some other way to fly. or to be a bird if you want.
ok, im just gonna give you my current character from our port town campaign. its incarnate 1 [for walk on water, and strongheart] warlock 2 [this is for your level 3, if the campaign gets high enough i suggest playing while preparing to go into hellfire warlock] because nothing says i will kill you! like setting their boat on helfire. also good would be a reach weapon build, as space would generally be limited.
edit: put ranks in swim, and maybe in profession sailor. also good would be any caster with access to anything that uses fire. although your above average ship may have a way to fire proof, so try freezing water near the ship. finally, when in doubt, put holes in the ship, or keep the hull as intact as you can, turn into a bird, get to the lower areas of the ship, and create as much fire/water as you please.

druid, wildshape is good, casting from the water under an enemy ship is godly. as is repairing your ship from the underside.

[Pluto]

Artificer!
Be the party's Scotty! Turn your ship into the scariest thing on the seas!
[Without setting-specific materials, a Wizard or high-level Warlock could do the same.]

Scarlet Corsair! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050805b)
Perfect for a bloodthirsty pirate captain! It's not the most powerful class, but it's one of my favorites, just for being so darned fun in play.

Beguiler!
Rule the seas with deception and fear! Use your ingenuity and illusions to strike terror into the hearts of those you want to rob silly!
(This way you don't even need to be able to defeat other ships in combat to comandeer their swag - you just have to make them think you can!)

[Soranar]

First, not all dwarves have Cha minuses so if you want to go bard you can.

I recommend builds using light or no armor , because if you ever meet water you will be sorry.

A seaclift dwarf gets the strong swimmer ability which could help.

I'd probably go ranger11/deepwarden 2/horizon walker 7 for a full combat feat tree, your Con instead of Dex to AC (Fist of the forest might be weird in a sea oriented game) and horizon walker for teleportation and various bonuses.

I just thought of something though. Fireballs and ships don't mix very well, you might want to be able to fly somehow too, to spot incoming ships faster.

[amaranth69]

If you are not looking for a full caster, I would suggest a duskblade, they get the full base attack bonus, plus at third level, which you say you will be starting at, you can channel spells through your weapon.

[Paul H]

Hi

Think the Druid suggestion is a good one. A Riding Dog makes for a good Animal Companion, and you'll soom be able to Wildshape or cast Call Lightning.

Saw how awesome 1st lvl Druids can be with the Blindfight feat at a recent convention - Obscuring Mist then battle with your Blindfight. Your Animal Companion should have Scent, which will negate the vision penalties.....

At 7th level just cast Flamestrike against one of the enemy's masts. All that rigging & sails going up in flame........? Nasty. :smallbiggrin:

Or just play a Cleric with Elemental or Magic/Travel Domains. Either do straight Elemental damage, or use items as a Wizard & Fly, etc.

Cheers
Paul H

[Sinfire Titan]

Incarnate X, with the Landlord feat. Have him spend the extra gold making a floating fortress. Use the Cerulean Sandals and Sailor's Bracers to optimize his seaworthiness, and abuse the unholy hell out of Stormwrack's Ship-to-Ship combat mechanics that require Profession: Sailor.

[herrhauptmann]

Hi

Think the Druid suggestion is a good one. A Riding Dog makes for a good Animal Companion, and you'll soom be able to Wildshape or cast Call Lightning.

Saw how awesome 1st lvl Druids can be with the Blindfight feat at a recent convention - Obscuring Mist then battle with your Blindfight. Your Animal Companion should have Scent, which will negate the vision penalties.....

At 7th level just cast Flamestrike against one of the enemy's masts. All that rigging & sails going up in flame........? Nasty. :smallbiggrin:

Or just play a Cleric with Elemental or Magic/Travel Domains. Either do straight Elemental damage, or use items as a Wizard & Fly, etc.

Cheers
Paul H
He said he didn't want to be CoDzilla or Batman.
How about going Horizon Walker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/horizonWalker.htm). The 8 ranks in Knowledge will sorta suck without the right base classes, but the different terrains would be nice. Aquatic will let you wear heavier armor without freaking over your swim check. Take it to HW 6 for shifting terrain. Dimension door every 1d4 rounds.

[CTLC]

if it wouldnt cripple your chances of being on the proper power level. monk?
you could be the super high powered jumper build, just jump from one ship to another.

[Bibliomancer]

If you wanted to adapt the Master and Commander style of life to magic, you could try playing a wizard. Your item familiar is the steering wheel and first mate, and you can use gust of wind when you're becalmed. You also gain the vitally important ability to keep an enemy wizard from burning your ship from hundreds of feet away.

Alternatively, play a bard with perform (vocal). That way, you can engage in swashbuckling action, and keep up the crews spirits inside and outside of combat by saying "Stiff upper lip!"

[Occasional Sage]

Incarnate X, with the Landlord feat. Have him spend the extra gold making a floating fortress. Use the Cerulean Sandals and Sailor's Bracers to optimize his seaworthiness, and abuse the unholy hell out of Stormwrack's Ship-to-Ship combat mechanics that require Profession: Sailor.

What's this Landlord feat? There isn't even a muted bell ringing....

I do like the Scarlet Corsair though. It's conjuring images of a dwarf coming up out of the water and leading a small boarding party in a guerrilla raid. Perhaps an aquatic dwarf, with some trinket to allow air breathing?

EDIT: Isn't there a non-core Clerical Domain that grants sneak attack dice? That would let me take the Corsair PrC with after Cleric 7, or earlier with full-BAB dips.

[Sinfire Titan]

What's this Landlord feat? There isn't even a muted bell ringing....

I do like the Scarlet Corsair though. It's conjuring images of a dwarf coming up out of the water and leading a small boarding party in a guerrilla raid. Perhaps an aquatic dwarf, with some trinket to allow air breathing?

It's a feat in the Stronghold Builder's Guide. It effectively doubles your character's WBL, but that money can only be spent on a lair of some kind. A Boat should count as a lair, so there you go. I think it has a minimum level requirement akin to Leadership, but I don't know.

[subject42]

It's a little out there, but I'd like to suggest a Dragon Shaman or a Marshall. Since everyone on your ship counts as an Ally, your bonus auras would act as a huge force multiplier.

You could pretty much just stand on the middle of the deck and look awesome.

[KellKheraptis]

Versatile + Deadly in Ship to Ship + spell capable + full melee/ranged = Mystic Ranger with Sword of the Arcane Order! Take Sanctum Spell, True Believer, and Versatile Spellcaster and you'll even have access to 9th level spells, or for that matter, take Planar Touchstone and Extra Spell until you get 9th's. You'll have 2 good saves, a good 3rd since Wis is your casting stat (half of it actually...Int for DC's on Wiz spells), Improved Evasion eventually, and if you really wanna make it evile, go Wildshape variant ranger and pick up Dragon Wild Shape at 12th. Now you're a spell flinging d8 6+Int Full BAB dragon with potentially 9th level spells. w00t!

[Pluto]

EDIT: Isn't there a non-core Clerical Domain that grants sneak attack dice? That would let me take the Corsair PrC with after Cleric 7, or earlier with full-BAB dips.
The closest thing I know is Dragon Magazine's Sacred Outlaw feat (I don't know the issue. It's on crystalkeep.com).
It stacks Rogue and Cleric levels for the purposes of Sneak Attack and Turning.

If you're going to dip into a full BA class, Unearthed Arcana lets you trade the Fighter's feats for Rogue sneak attack. That might help some.

[Occasional Sage]

Versatile + Deadly in Ship to Ship + spell capable + full melee/ranged = Mystic Ranger with Sword of the Arcane Order! Take Sanctum Spell, True Believer, and Versatile Spellcaster and you'll even have access to 9th level spells, or for that matter, take Planar Touchstone and Extra Spell until you get 9th's. You'll have 2 good saves, a good 3rd since Wis is your casting stat (half of it actually...Int for DC's on Wiz spells), Improved Evasion eventually, and if you really wanna make it evile, go Wildshape variant ranger and pick up Dragon Wild Shape at 12th. Now you're a spell flinging d8 6+Int Full BAB dragon with potentially 9th level spells. w00t!

Does... does that work? :smalleek:

[gorfnab]

Does... does that work? :smalleek:
Takes some tweaking but it would work very well...or at least until your DM decides to smite you :smallbiggrin:

[faceroll]

Dwarf Bard into Dread Pirate. It's not optimal;Sublime Chord would be a better PrC for spell casting and Dwarf hits your Cha unless you use a weird variant, but you should still do well enough. Focus on your Inspire Courage, though Words of Creation from Book of Exalted Deeds might be hard to keep. IC can be really nice if you have a whole crew attacking something.

There is indeed a weird variant- dream dwarf from races of stone. Takes a dex hit instead of cha.

I think.

[Occasional Sage]

I'm really liking this Scarlet Corsair idea, with a level of HW for the aquatic terrain. The one drawback that I see is that one of the dwarf's big benefits is the ability to wear f-off huge armor without a penalty, but anything more than light is a problem*. How do I get around that? My gut reaction is that with the aquatic dwarf Dex penalty I can't worry about it; Evasion is nice and all, but I need the higher AC to offset the fact that I'll be moving as nimbly as a pregnant whale. I'm sure ya'll have better ideas, though.

For a starting character I'm thinking Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 1, entering SC at 7th level as a R1/F2/Wb2/HW1 for the faster swim speed, since I need another full-BAB level to offset the Rogue level. I'd love to take Rogue 2 for Evasion, but again with the light armor problem.



Also necessary: a Portable Door (reusable wondrous item using Passwall to make a door on command) to slap on the prow of enemy ships, below the water line. :smallbiggrin:


* In the SC PrC itself the only loss is the Sailor's Step, which benefit is easily outdone by heavier armor. I need Sneak damage, though, which comes from classes that dislike more than light armor.

[Pluto]

I'm really liking this Scarlet Corsair idea, with a level of HW for the aquatic terrain. The one drawback that I see is that one of the dwarf's big benefits is the ability to wear f-off huge armor without a penalty, but anything more than light is a problem*. How do I get around that? My gut reaction is that with the aquatic dwarf Dex penalty I can't worry about it; Evasion is nice and all, but I need the higher AC to offset the fact that I'll be moving as nimbly as a pregnant whale. I'm sure ya'll have better ideas, though.

I never like giving just one set of advice.

But there are so many different approaches to this that I'm going to limit my response to what I would do if I were trying to make a Dwarven pirate captain (and I know I'm not pushing any edges of CO):

Fighter 1/Warblade 4/Scarlet Corsair X.

Then crank Charisma as high as possible for Feints, Demoralize and saves. (Throw in a variant race if need be. Desert Dwarf from Unearthed Arcana strikes me as the most appealing and caters to an interesting backstory.)

I'd use the Thug and Sneak Attack Fighter variants from UA. This gives 4+Int skills, +1 BA, +1d6 SA and raises the cap on both Bluff and Intimidate. It's a nice starting point for early SC entry.

With a sprinkling of the PHB2's Spooky Ghost Panther ACF, Hexblade brings quite a bit: Meddle, Charisma to Saves (and you'll want good Charisma), a walking debuff to your enemies and access to wands for spells like Whirling Blade (SpC) and Polymorph. If you treat the Spooky Ghost Panther as a moving jeebly feeling, the fluff actually works pretty well for a Scary Pirate Captain.

Add a smattering of the standard Intimidate boosters like Imperious Command and Fearsome Armor (DotU) or Never Outnumbered (CS) and this can be a pretty good charisma-based pirate.


[edit:]
For an approach that feels a bit less 'anime':

Fighter 1/Warblade 4/Scarlet Corsair X

(Yes, I am using ToB for this. The Warblade isn't as crazy as the Swordsage in that regard and neither have anything on the Hexblade, what with its flying weapons, invisibility, Polymorph, teleports and Creepy Shadow Panthers)

Same Fighter variants as before, for the same reasons.

Use Diamond Mind and Iron Heart for swashbucklery goodness. Take pretty much any maneuver you see fit. This gets you a bit of versatility, quite a bit of low-level 'oomph' and Uncanny Dodge, all while building nicely toward early SC entry.

[Actually, most full BA classes that can simultaneously advance Bluff and Intimidate will work here.]

Also, given the Dwarf's slow speed, I recommend maximizing the opportunities to swing from things. Because it's cinematic and awesome.

[Draz74]

The one drawback that I see is that one of the dwarf's big benefits is the ability to wear f-off huge armor without a penalty, but anything more than light is a problem*. How do I get around that?

In terms of Scarlet Corsair class features I got nothin'; but if you want to wear heavy armor around water without the danger of drowning, that's downright easy these days. 250 gp gets you an Armor Crystal of Aquatic Action that removes the armor check penalty for Swim checks. 750 more gp gives you a Swim speed, and a mere 2000 more gp lets you breathe underwater indefinitely and attack normally underwater.

Is Evasion the only thing Scarlet Corsair loses in heavier armor?

[Magnor Criol]

250 gp gets you an Armor Crystal of Aquatic Action that removes the armor check penalty for Swim checks. 750 more gp gives you a Swim speed, and a mere 2000 more gp lets you breathe underwater indefinitely and attack normally underwater.

It's worth noting that the augment crystals DO have minimum requirements for the quality of the armor they're on. Least only needs masterwork, but lesser needs a +1 bonus and Greater a +3. So it's not quite as straightforwardly cheap as 250, 1000, or 3000 gp.

+3 armor is out of the question assuming you're going by WBL, though that's not always the case. +1 armor is a bit on the pricey side for that WBL too, for that matter.

Just pointing this fact out; it's often overlooked. I know me and my gaming group did at first.

[Pluto]

Is Evasion the only thing Scarlet Corsair loses in heavier armor?
It loses 4 AC (Dodge bonus) over 10 levels.
The bonus only applies while on a ship.
Between Plate and Breastplate+Sailor's Step, I think it's kind of a wash.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, I'd make the character a Race of Water or Air (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm). You wouldn't get any different ability score adjustments for sticking it on a Dwarf, but you'd get the general traits of whichever one. Races of Water get a swim speed equal to their land speed, and Races of Air don't have to breathe so you could never drown. Either of those (or even take both, as they're not conflicting elements) would be a significant advantage in this type of campaign.

Druid would indeed be a very strong choice for this campaign, though that can be said of any 3.5 game. I also agree that Beguiler sounds like a fun choice, but that's probably not what you'd prefer. Maybe go Swordsage, and use its skills and martial maneuvers to make an acrobatic warrior.

You could get Animate Objects + Permanency cast on your ship, so it could propel itself and be healed via the Repair Damage line of spells. Get fins or paddlewheels attached prior to that and it will be the fastest ship on the sea. It could even make its way onto land, or be the target of a Fly spell....

[Rasman]

you want to be Brooks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06hv3ZxDdA&feature=related) because he's awesome, ESPECIALLY if you want to play a bard, because stuff like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dHBBbZ-wXs&feature=related) should always happen on a pirate ship, not to mention a walking and talking skeleton would be fun to play.

Also, THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD79BCApyhQ) is just a badass fighting style and pretty fitting for a bard. Although, you'd probably have to throw in some rogue because he TECHNICALLY did a sneak attack with delayed damage, but FLUFFY wise, would be awesome, maybe worth burning a feat on getting delayed damage so you could just attack, enemy not feel anything, hide and then them go down like a ton of bricks. Just wish I remembered what book that came from...

[subject42]

The one drawback that I see is that one of the dwarf's big benefits is the ability to wear f-off huge armor without a penalty, but anything more than light is a problem*.

*snip*

* In the SC PrC itself the only loss is the Sailor's Step, which benefit is easily outdone by heavier armor. I need Sneak damage, though, which comes from classes that dislike more than light armor.


Be careful with heavy armor in a naval setting. I learned the hard way that there is exactly one balance check's worth of difference between "full plate" and "anchor".

[Occasional Sage]

Be careful with heavy armor in a naval setting. I learned the hard way that there is exactly one balance check's worth of difference between "full plate" and "anchor".

Hence the aquatic dwarf idea, so that I can breath underwater. And I'll be suggesting a Bottle of Air with a stock of bladders to the other PCs, for underwater flotation devices.

So one of the other players has picked a concept: she's going to play a bard-type (unsure so far of any multiclassing) to be the ship's captain. I pitched Landlord at her, and she's sorta in love with it. Sin, she wants to have your kids in-character.

* * * * * * * ** * * * ** * ** * * ** *

We've decided that to reduce bookkeeping requirements on the DM, we're going to create three roughly-deliniated zones: ship sailing, underwater, and on-and-over-deck. Each of the three players will head one of those, and have two lieutenant-y folks run by the other players. That way we're all involved when the scene shifts, the DM is only responsible for mooks on our ship, and we have a pool of talented characters if we need to replace a PC.

[Pluto]

Hence the aquatic dwarf idea, so that I can breath underwater.
Quick question:
Are you doing something to breathe above water?
Or is 2*Con rounds at a time enough?

Related:
Some sort of dwarven armor fish tank would be nine shades of nifty.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Quick question:
Are you doing something to breathe above water?
Or is 2*Con rounds at a time enough?

Related:
Some sort of dwarven armor fish tank would be nine shades of nifty.

Incidentally my party is going to be headed through a swamp. With mud five feet deep, the party dwarf's height. I thought of using aquatic dwarf until I looked over the aquatic traits and found that. He rejected the idea of using full plate filled with water:smallfrown:. His maneuverability wasn't exactly going to be great anyway and we had to cross a lake too. Sure he'd sink like a stone, but at least he wouldn't die. Eventually he had to get a +1 equivalent for his weapon which let him breathe water whilst wielding it (DM made it up on the spot, so no luck if you wanted it, sorry).

[Occasional Sage]

Quick question:
Are you doing something to breathe above water?
Or is 2*Con rounds at a time enough?

Related:
Some sort of dwarven armor fish tank would be nine shades of nifty.

Ooo, sexy!

The plan is to pick up a ring or circlet or such of WaterAir Breathing, probably with limited uses per day since I'm going to be spending a lot of time underwater.

I like the image of an anti-diver bell helmet and armor, though. That has enough cool to trump most anything.

[Glimbur]

That still means it's possible for you to not be able to move due to your swim check being bad. Consider Finned Gauntlets from the MiC, which give a swim speed.

[Occasional Sage]

Aquatic dwarves have a swim speed, and can take 10 on swim checks if the +8 bonus doesn't seem enough. Fins seem like overkill, especially with the limitations of CL3 WBL. Later on, that could make for some serious cool though.