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Goonthegoof
2010-02-06, 09:08 PM
The text on the Bear Warrior's ability to shapeshift is really confusing. At one point it says 'His only limit on the number of times per day he can assume a bear form is the limit to the number of times per day he can rage or frenzy' but at another point it says he can transform into a bear once a day (twice a day at fifth and three times at tenth). These seem mutually contradictory, are they?

I'm also somewhat confused by how the transformation works. You get a lot of bear abilities etc but you gain a big strength bonus instead of the bear's stats... Can you still use your weapons? Do you instead attack with the bear's natural weapons?

Starbuck_II
2010-02-06, 09:13 PM
Errated to Rage limit I believe.

Basically since they assume Barbs are naturaly Strong they figured a Str bonus made more sense than a stat replacement.

You couldn't pick up the sword + use it effectively without a thumb and (only Pandas have fake thumbs* and can actually do that).

So you pretty much have to use bear's natural attacks.

Technically: Monkey grip's flavor text would let you use a weapon as a bear, but then you'd have to take Monkey grip.



*Pandas can use their wrist like an opposable thumb. True fact.

Goonthegoof
2010-02-06, 09:15 PM
Ok, I'm kind of really unfamiliar with how natural attacks work... Bears get two claws and a bite, that's 3 attacks per round. How does that work with say a BAB of 11/6/1?

Starbuck_II
2010-02-06, 09:18 PM
You don't mix # BAB attacks and NAtural progression for calculations.

Naturals attacks are 1 each. No more, no less.

So you got your 2 primary attack (Claws for bear I think) and 1 secondary Bite (when full attacking secondaries have -5 penalty to hit and 1/2 Str).

If you have Multiattack feat the penalty on full attacking is -2 instead.

Look at a Polar Bear: while they have BAB of +6, they still get 1 Natural each only.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bearPolar.htm

nyarlathotep
2010-02-06, 09:19 PM
It was a hold over from the old oriental adventures bear warrior.

The errata clarified that the only limit is the number of times they can rage and that times per day text was not meant to be in the book.

Goonthegoof
2010-02-06, 09:26 PM
So there's no way to equip a weapon as a bear? Would a wilding clasp work?

FishAreWet
2010-02-06, 09:28 PM
Mouth Pick from Savage Species.
Spiked Barding.

Goonthegoof
2010-02-06, 09:34 PM
So, any advice on building a bearbarian bear warrior? I was thinking bear totem whirling frenzy barbarian 7/bear warrior 10, since weapons are out what would be the best way to attack?

noiadodh
2010-02-06, 09:45 PM
So there's no way to equip a weapon as a bear? Would a wilding clasp work?

arguably Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED pg 69)...

needs 3 feats (2 vows and able learner IIRC to pick the cross-class skills) to enter as human though..

Fluffles
2010-02-06, 10:45 PM
So there's no way to equip a weapon as a bear? Would a wilding clasp work?

Gloves of Man from Savage Species.

Hallavast
2010-02-06, 11:08 PM
Spiked Barding.

Are you going to put on the barding every time you shapeshift?

I dunno. The PrC seemed a bit weak to me. Yeah, you're getting a lot of Str and Con, but you're losing AC (bear NA armor doesn't match up to the magical armor bonus you'd get). Plus, you can't use weapons which means no magic two handed swords for 1.5 str modifier, power attack is *1 instead of *2, and you get 3 attacks instead of 4 at higher levels. Besides, the bear form isn't giving you any utility except scent (no flight, stealth, ect). Not a very good tradeoff.

As a DM I have a new guy that wants to take the prestige class, so I modified it into a hybrid bear form with reduced str bonuses, but it can wear armor and use weapons normally.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 12:53 AM
Are you going to put on the barding every time you shapeshift?

I feel like there's a magic enhancement to fix that. Also, if you're making use of power attack, you are probably shock trooping, and have the AC of a barn.


I dunno. The PrC seemed a bit weak to me. Yeah, you're getting a lot of Str and Con, but you're losing AC (bear NA armor doesn't match up to the magical armor bonus you'd get). Plus, you can't use weapons which means no magic two handed swords for 1.5 str modifier, power attack is *1 instead of *2, and you get 3 attacks instead of 4 at higher levels. Besides, the bear form isn't giving you any utility except scent (no flight, stealth, ect). Not a very good tradeoff.

The loss of efficient power attacking is a bummer, but with a mouth pick, you can make a full attack using your BAB iteratives with 1.5x str and then make two claw attacks. Arguably, the str bonus you get makes up for the loss of power attack, since you have both more to hit and more damage. This means your AC is a bit better since you don't have to be charging everywhere as a mad man.

Course, if you're going for pure damage, you can't beat Frenzied Berzerker. Now if only there was a way to make a Frenzied Bearzerker....

Milskidasith
2010-02-07, 01:00 AM
Course, if you're going for pure damage, you can't beat Frenzied Berzerker. Now if only there was a way to make a Frenzied Bearzerker....

*In the brawndo commercial guys voice*


Do you want to be a bear that is extra angry! Make a Frenzied Bearzerker today and open up 10 cans of rage! Go out there and maul a dragon with your bear hands!

Dimers
2010-02-07, 01:22 AM
So there's no way to equip a weapon as a bear? Would a wilding clasp work?

Well, if you have a lawful alignment, you could also pick up the kensai class and laugh off the need for manufactured weapons ...

I believe the wilding clasp only works for necklaces.


I feel like there's a magic enhancement to fix that.

If you're thinking of the same one I was, it's beastskin in Complete Adventurer. That's for wildshape only. I discovered this because I wanted to see if it could be applied to shields -- it can't -- so as to allow use of one of the weapon-shields in CW while in bear form. Alas.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-02-07, 01:30 AM
Bear Warrior really bugs me. Especially at low levels, it looks like it's designed to be a net loss in ability. Instead of weilding a two-handed weapon with a Strength bonus, you're using a claw-claw-bite routine with few training feats, and your Str-boosting equipment is rendered useless by the Polymorph effect of the Bear Warrior. Essentially, you could choose to Rage at +4 Str, or Bear shape at +8 Str, while losing your +4 Str belt (and all your weapons, armor and additional gear). Overall a net penalty.

I guess you can take advantage of the Sacred Vow feat tree. If that's your thang.

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-07, 01:32 AM
Well, if you have a lawful alignment, you could also pick up the kensai class and laugh off the need for manufactured weapons ...

I believe the wilding clasp only works for necklaces.



If you're thinking of the same one I was, it's beastskin in Complete Adventurer. That's for wildshape only. I discovered this because I wanted to see if it could be applied to shields -- it can't -- so as to allow use of one of the weapon-shields in CW while in bear form. Alas.

Kesai can't work with Bear Warrior unless you use Orc Paragon.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 01:37 AM
If you're thinking of the same one I was, it's beastskin in Complete Adventurer. That's for wildshape only. I discovered this because I wanted to see if it could be applied to shields -- it can't -- so as to allow use of one of the weapon-shields in CW while in bear form. Alas.

Calling maybe?

Dimers
2010-02-07, 01:39 AM
Kesai can't work with Bear Warrior unless you use Orc Paragon.

OA has other ways to get rage/frenzy while being Lawful, if that's what you're referring to. ... Not that I seriously think it's a good idea to combine two prestige classes that take quite a few levels each to really shine. I just like talking about kensai. :smallsmile:

Coidzor
2010-02-07, 02:56 AM
Unarmed strike and beat them with your kungfu and bearfu is what I've seen most often for bear warriors. Combined with fist of the forest, I think.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 02:57 AM
Unarmed strike and beat them with your kungfu and bearfu is what I've seen most often for bear warriors. Combined with fist of the forest, I think.

Ooh, nice. That's con to ac, right?

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-07, 03:00 AM
Ooh, nice. That's con to ac, right?

Yup. More the better if you're a dwarf with a couple levels of Deepwarden too.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 03:12 AM
Yup. More the better if you're a dwarf with a couple levels of Deepwarden too.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Who needs armor when you are so healthy you become harder to hit. That um, that sort of doesn't make sense. "Ha! I am too healthy! Your spells miss me!"

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-07, 03:28 AM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Who needs armor when you are so healthy you become harder to hit. That um, that sort of doesn't make sense. "Ha! I am too healthy! Your spells miss me!"

They bounce off my amazingly solid chest muscles!

Coidzor
2010-02-07, 03:48 AM
With the flexing of my pecs, your spear tips are blunted, ha HAH!

and such indeed.

Fitz10019
2010-02-07, 08:02 AM
Called armor seems like a good solution, but it might be defeated by RAW. Bears have a language (like all animals) so a Druid in bear form could use Called armor. The bear warrior is only a bear while raging, and the barbarian rage specifies that the barbarian cannot activate magic items that require a command word while raging. This technicality should probably be handwaved.


I believe the wilding clasp only works for necklaces.

The Wilding Clasp functions with "any item worn on the body."

realbombchu
2010-02-07, 08:11 AM
Hi everyone! I just wanted to mention claw extenders from Dragon magazine. They can be made from special metal and enhanced. Problem is, you have to put them on, which may count as an act of concentration. Alternatively, you could take the Silver Fang feat from Champions of Valor, and all your natural weapons would count as silver.

The loss of equipment is only truly bad if you're going off alone. If you have a cleric or druid friend, they can cast some helpful spells to offset some of the loss, including barkskin and greater magic fang, of course. I'm not sure if any of that helps, but I think people should be able to play the concepts they want, so I wanted to mention what I hope will help.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-07, 09:35 AM
What's with the recent obsession in these parts with Bear Warrior, anyways? This is the third thread in a little over the week featuring it prominently.:smallconfused:

Goonthegoof
2010-02-07, 09:47 AM
On one hand, you're a warrior. On the other hand there are no hands because you are now a bear and have paws. I rest my case.

Fluffles
2010-02-07, 11:29 AM
On one hand, you're a warrior. On the other hand there are no hands because you are now a bear and have paws. I rest my case.

Gloves of man :smallwink:

Weezer
2010-02-07, 12:20 PM
What's with the recent obsession in these parts with Bear Warrior, anyways? This is the third thread in a little over the week featuring it prominently.:smallconfused:

Because Bear Warriors who get so angry they spontaneously turn into a bear, what's there not to be obsessed about?

Starbuck_II
2010-02-07, 12:46 PM
They only bring the bear minimum of rage though.

absolmorph
2010-02-07, 05:45 PM
They only bring the bear minimum of rage though.
You just have to grin and bear grabbing Extra Rage a time or two.