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Temotei
2010-02-06, 10:52 PM
Well...since the warblade feats thread already came up and I was going to ask that, I figure it can't hurt to get ahead of myself for this game.

What are your favorite feat choices for a warmage? How about favorite prestige classes?

KellKheraptis
2010-02-06, 10:57 PM
Fair warning : not for the lactose intolerant!

Warmage 1/Critter Servant 2/Spelldancer 2/Incantatrix 10/Contemplative 1/PrC Pally 1/Mindbender 1/Divine Oracle 2

PrC Paladin is the glue that holds all this together, and coupled with the shoddy wording of Contemplative, our Warmage casting is the same as our Cleric (Contemplative) and Paladin casting. As such, take Sword of the Arcane Order (now you can add the Sor/Wiz list...all of it), Battle Blessing, and Extend/Persist Spell. Spelldance, with a means to become immune to fatigue and exhaustion, means all the Persistent spells you want, and after the buffs are out, revel in being the most crazy prepared caster ever. I call him Batman.

EDIT : Oh, and Critter Servant is Rainbow Servant, adapted to whatever floats your boat, as that allows a different domain. I recommend Sun, as that fulfills the turning requirement.

Pluto
2010-02-06, 10:59 PM
Note: Must be full casting prestige classes if you mention any. No exceptions.
I think Sand Shaper deserves to be an exception to that rule.

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-06, 11:05 PM
I think Sand Shaper deserves to be an exception to that rule.

Technically, the Rainbow Servant meets that requirement without being an exception.



I'd like to add the Fiend-Blooded PrC (Heroes of Horror) to that list of exceptions. It's only 9 levels long anyway.

Mongoose87
2010-02-06, 11:14 PM
Technically, the Rainbow Servant meets that requirement without being an exception.



I'd like to add the Fiend-Blooded PrC (Heroes of Horror) to that list of exceptions. It's only 9 levels long anyway.

That is one spicy meat ball.

Temotei
2010-02-06, 11:32 PM
Alright. I'll edit the criteria. The character has to be a full caster.

KellKheraptis
2010-02-06, 11:37 PM
Mine was 20/20. The variation uses War Weaver which loses 1 level, but gains the sexiness that is the Tapestry.

SilverStar
2010-02-06, 11:49 PM
Warmage 8/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 2.

Yes, you can qualify for archmage via warmage; you just have to work at it. Mastery of elements/shaping is sexy for blasters and I love my blaster mages.

Rainbow Servant cheese doesn't fly with my DM, unfortunately, so I have to just work with what I have.

Feats? Metamagic. :p

KellKheraptis
2010-02-06, 11:54 PM
Warmage 8/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 2.

Yes, you can qualify for archmage via warmage; you just have to work at it. Mastery of elements/shaping is sexy for blasters and I love my blaster mages.

Rainbow Servant cheese doesn't fly with my DM, unfortunately, so I have to just work with what I have.

Feats? Metamagic. :p

Can you go beguiler instead? If so, Beguiler 5/Incantatrix 10/SCM 5. Full caster, gets the goods of SCM, gets metamagic and persist tech from Incantatrix. Want a blaster?

Wizard 4/Spellthief (bardic casting variant) 1/UM 10/Incantatrix 4/Mindbender 1
Master Spellthief, and Mindsight for targeting. Two bonus metamagic feats, with Practiced Spellcaster (Spellthief) you're looking at a base CL (not counting other feats) of 32. Throw in Reserves of Strength, and some mitigation feats, and let the bodies hit the floor. I can do WAY better than that if you'd like.

SilverStar
2010-02-06, 11:56 PM
Ultimate Magus is rather nice, I agree...

SCM= ?

I also like the Magelord, but pre-epic it's unfinishable :smallfrown:

KellKheraptis
2010-02-06, 11:59 PM
Ultimate Magus is rather nice, I agree...

SCM= ?

I also like the Magelord, but pre-epic it's unfinishable :smallfrown:

Shadowcraft Mage, preferably using the non-racial adaptation. And why not? What's the holdup on getting all 10 levels?

SilverStar
2010-02-07, 12:02 AM
Evasion being one, though you could sneak by with an item, I suppose.

Shadowcraft mages are hilarious; I never thought of mixing it with beguiler instead of the traditional illusionist.

Emmerask
2010-02-07, 12:08 AM
I do like the war wizard of cormyr for warmages ;)

Temotei
2010-02-07, 12:09 AM
New change to my character: E6. :smalleek:

KellKheraptis
2010-02-07, 12:12 AM
Evasion being one, though you could sneak by with an item, I suppose.

Shadowcraft mages are hilarious; I never thought of mixing it with beguiler instead of the traditional illusionist.

Sneak into Spelldancer early, and stay for 2 levels, giving Evasion and Spelldance. And furthermore, if you get in by 4rd level, you can tack on Spellwarp Sniper 5 at the end. Easy enough to do as an elf trading away weapon prof's, or with flaws as a human.

EDIT : Crap, E6 system? Ok...you're gonna want to optimize Int then, and abuse the heck out of Warmage Edge. You'll be a better blaster than most, unless BoEF is allowed (though there's nothing stopping you from using that as well).

SilverStar
2010-02-07, 12:16 AM
Metaphysical Whatsis (? BoEF class), I'm guessing, but I don't know what e6 is.

Could you remind me what book spelldancer's in? I think I have it; I just don't want to dig through all my FR stuff (I'm pretty sure it's in one of those)

Emmerask
2010-02-07, 12:16 AM
New change to my character: E6. :smalleek:

I personally wouldn´t go with a warmage in that case ^^
some wizard to get atleast 4th level spells or maybe some psionic character?

/edit spelldancer is in magic of faerun (but perhaps in other books too )

KellKheraptis
2010-02-07, 12:26 AM
I personally wouldn´t go with a warmage in that case ^^
some wizard to get atleast 4th level spells or maybe some psionic character?

/edit spelldancer is in magic of faerun (but perhaps in other books too )

Nope, MoF exclusive. And how does 5th level spell capability sound? Sanctum Spell combined with Versatile Spellcaster. Now the trick for blasting : crank Int, and pick up a reserve feat. The big gun can be when all those +CL feats and items get used on that 5th level spell, and until then, you're chucking 5d6+Int mod per shot all day.

Emmerask
2010-02-07, 12:28 AM
Ah ok, as far as I remember there are some double prints of a few classes across the FR books though ^^

I´m pretty sure that a dm who wants to play e6 will not allow cheese to buff spellcasting but I could be wrong of course

/edit I still think that a wilder or psion would do better blasting in an e6 game (except for heavy optimization of course)

faceroll
2010-02-07, 12:33 AM
Fair warning : not for the lactose intolerant!

Warmage 1/Critter Servant 2/Spelldancer 2/Incantatrix 10/Contemplative 1/PrC Pally 1/Mindbender 1/Divine Oracle 2

PrC Paladin is the glue that holds all this together, and coupled with the shoddy wording of Contemplative, our Warmage casting is the same as our Cleric (Contemplative) and Paladin casting. As such, take Sword of the Arcane Order (now you can add the Sor/Wiz list...all of it), Battle Blessing, and Extend/Persist Spell. Spelldance, with a means to become immune to fatigue and exhaustion, means all the Persistent spells you want, and after the buffs are out, revel in being the most crazy prepared caster ever. I call him Batman.

EDIT : Oh, and Critter Servant is Rainbow Servant, adapted to whatever floats your boat, as that allows a different domain. I recommend Sun, as that fulfills the turning requirement.

Where's spelldancer from, and what's giving you the ability to turn undead?


I personally wouldn´t go with a warmage in that case ^^
some wizard to get atleast 4th level spells or maybe some psionic character?

/edit spelldancer is in magic of faerun (but perhaps in other books too )

Actually, you can get 5th level spells, as long as you cast from a particular location.

Feats needed:
Versatile Spellcaster
Sanctum Spell

At 6th level you have 3rd level spells. When cast in your sanctum, you can cast 4th level spells. You can combine two 4th level to become 5th level spells. If you pick up Arcane Disciple (qualify it by either taking a level in a class that grants know: religion, like rainbow servant, or using knowledge devotion), you get a bunch of sweet spells. Travel is a good domain, since this gets you teleport.

'Course, this is totally going against the spirit of E6 where the DM doesn't want you using crap like that.

KellKheraptis
2010-02-07, 12:37 AM
Where's spelldancer from, and what's giving you the ability to turn undead?

Read up :P Spelldancer is from Magic of Faerun, and Sun domain grants turning.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 12:38 AM
Read up :P Spelldancer is from Magic of Faerun, and Sun domain grants turning.

DOH. It's all right there, isn't it. :(

You could pick up turning with planar touchstone: catalogues of enlightenment.

Emmerask
2010-02-07, 12:43 AM
Actually, you can get 5th level spells, as long as you cast from a particular location.

Feats needed:
Versatile Spellcaster
Sanctum Spell

At 6th level you have 3rd level spells. When cast in your sanctum, you can cast 4th level spells. You can combine two 4th level to become 5th level spells. If you pick up Arcane Disciple (qualify it by either taking a level in a class that grants know: religion, like rainbow servant, or using knowledge devotion), you get a bunch of sweet spells. Travel is a good domain, since this gets you teleport.

'Course, this is totally going against the spirit of E6 where the DM doesn't want you using crap like that.

I do not doubt that it is possible at all :smallsmile:
What I doubt is that a gm who wants to use e6 will allow it

Temotei
2010-02-07, 12:43 AM
Yeah...I'm guessing that kind of stuff is banned. Reserve feats are a good idea though. Thanks for that idea. :smallbiggrin: Cranking Intelligence shouldn't be too hard.

I'm taking warmage, whether you like it or not! :smallfurious:

:smallamused:

KellKheraptis
2010-02-07, 12:49 AM
DOH. It's all right there, isn't it. :(

You could pick up turning with planar touchstone: catalogues of enlightenment.

I do in games where I can't adapt Rainbow Servant to another creature :P

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-07, 01:24 AM
Yeah...I'm guessing that kind of stuff is banned. Reserve feats are a good idea though. Thanks for that idea. :smallbiggrin: Cranking Intelligence shouldn't be too hard.

I'm taking warmage, whether you like it or not! :smallfurious:

:smallamused:

You didn't even specify what sources were allowed or not. It's not our fault that you were vague.

Temotei
2010-02-07, 02:41 AM
You didn't even specify what sources were allowed or not. It's not our fault that you were vague.

That was in response to Emmerask, who just turned away from warmage. I want to play a warmage, so I'm playing one, yeah? :smallsmile:

Any books in 3.5 are allowed, minus third-party.

Anyways, I'm not really asking for a build or specific help so much as what you all like on your blasting types, although I appreciate suggestions for builds. :smallcool: I suppose that note at the bottom lead everyone away from my purpose. I'll delete that bit.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 03:02 AM
How are you taking sword of the arcane order with only one paladin level?

KellKheraptis
2010-02-07, 03:04 AM
How are you taking sword of the arcane order with only one paladin level?

Extrapolation of Dragon Magic's clause on Initiate feats, of which SotAO bloody well should have gotten the tag, as it is otherwise identical to them. And regardless it does indeed fulfill the "sharing a spell list," in which case you can take it after 4 effective spellcasting levels have been taken (or three after PrC Pally 1). An alternative is Silver Pyromancer, but there aren't any non-LG SP's.

Seffbasilisk
2010-02-07, 03:40 AM
Sticking to the basics, I'd highly recommend PBS and PRS. The point blank bonus isn't much, but +1 to attack and damage that crops up a lot? Useful, and it fills the prereq for Precise Shot, which negates the -4 for firing into melee (and the chance some DMs give that of blasting an ally in the back of the head.)

As for reserve feats, I personally favor Storm Bolt, as the only AoE I know of that has no saving throw, no spell resistance, no attack rolls...

Unless they're immune or resistant to electricity in some way, that's just "I choose that area. They take damage."

CL boosting things are good, and Extra Edge actually isn't so bad if you're churning out spells like a Warmage should.

Remember, if you try to hold back? There might not be a future to cast spells in. So leave one big boomy if you can, but otherwise feel free to dump spellslots.

Thurbane
2010-02-07, 04:59 AM
Two feats I'd recommend: Earth Bloodline (or one of the other Dragon Compendium bloodline feats) for an extra spell levels 1 through 9; and Apprentice (Spellcaster) from DMG II, to get UMD on your list of class skills.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 04:59 AM
Extrapolation of Dragon Magic's clause on Initiate feats, of which SotAO bloody well should have gotten the tag, as it is otherwise identical to them. And regardless it does indeed fulfill the "sharing a spell list," in which case you can take it after 4 effective spellcasting levels have been taken (or three after PrC Pally 1). An alternative is Silver Pyromancer, but there aren't any non-LG SP's.

That's an extraordinarily liberal interpretation. Borderline munchkin, really.

Raendyn
2010-02-07, 08:11 AM
Fair warning : not for the lactose intolerant!

Warmage 1/Critter Servant 2/Spelldancer 2/Incantatrix 10/Contemplative 1/PrC Pally 1/Mindbender 1/Divine Oracle 2

PrC Paladin is the glue that holds all this together, and coupled with the shoddy wording of Contemplative, our Warmage casting is the same as our Cleric (Contemplative) and Paladin casting. As such, take Sword of the Arcane Order (now you can add the Sor/Wiz list...all of it), Battle Blessing, and Extend/Persist Spell. Spelldance, with a means to become immune to fatigue and exhaustion, means all the Persistent spells you want, and after the buffs are out, revel in being the most crazy prepared caster ever. I call him Batman.

EDIT : Oh, and Critter Servant is Rainbow Servant, adapted to whatever floats your boat, as that allows a different domain. I recommend Sun, as that fulfills the turning requirement.

Battle blessing: you cast paladin spells as swift action.

Honestly,you managed to translate the above phrase into:
You can cast any of the spells you are able to cast in a swift action,as long as you have a freacking prestige with the name "paladin" in it.does not matter if it is not a paladin,since it has the name it qualifies.

Since you like ballance have you ever thought of playing Pun Pun?

Gnaeus
2010-02-07, 08:27 AM
If you pick up Arcane Disciple (qualify it by either taking a level in a class that grants know: religion, like rainbow servant, or using knowledge devotion), you get a bunch of sweet spells.

Unlike in the other thread on warmages, you don't need to jump through hoops to get to Arcane Disciple. It only requires Know Religion 4, which you can get cross class by level 5, so you can take it at level 6 or as the 6+ bonus feats without Servant or Know Devotion. Know Devotion, which cannot be taken before level 3, does not actually help you get there any faster (you just spend less skill points doing it).

KellKheraptis
2010-02-07, 11:47 AM
Battle blessing: you cast paladin spells as swift action.

Honestly,you managed to translate the above phrase into:
You can cast any of the spells you are able to cast in a swift action,as long as you have a freacking prestige with the name "paladin" in it.does not matter if it is not a paladin,since it has the name it qualifies.

Since you like ballance have you ever thought of playing Pun Pun?

Your logic is flawed, but the disclaimer is there for a reason. Your "paladin" slots are one and the same with your warmage slots, as you entered paladin as a prestige class instead of a base class. It is perfectly RAW legal, if cheesy as all nine hells. As I said, not for the lactose intolerant.

And as for Pun-pun, well...my Batman Warmage is the low-end of what I've done with builds. I do have a SCM that achieves Pun-pun levels of power strictly through the wonder that is the Dusk Giant and through that the ability to raise a mythal pre-epic as said Dusk Giant, but that is for another thread ;)

Raendyn
2010-02-07, 05:53 PM
Your logic is flawed, but the disclaimer is there for a reason. Your "paladin" slots are one and the same with your warmage slots, as you entered paladin as a prestige class instead of a base class. It is perfectly RAW legal, if cheesy as all nine hells. As I said, not for the lactose intolerant.



You know what?I like you!
You are one of the few guys around here that when he breaks the game he just admits it!:nale:

On the other hand,speaking for playable classes.I would say that even if any1 ever allows your batman you should consider drowing your quickened spells from the paladin list.
For god's sake, quickened 6-9 lvl spell?thats beyond epic because they are absolutly free & prepare-free.
If any dm ever let that & i am a player in that grp, i'll go play pun-pun!:mitd:

faceroll
2010-02-07, 05:56 PM
Unless there is some way to actually add wizard & warmage spells to the paladin spell list, then Battle Blessing still only works on Paladin. You do get access to the paladin spell list thanks to Prestige Paladin, but none of the other stuff Kell uses adds spells to the paladin list, and therefore isn't eligible for battle blessing.

masterjoda99
2010-02-07, 06:06 PM
Meh, with all this debate about when Battle Blessing does or does not apply, I'd prefer to use persisted arcane spellsurge from the sorcerer/wizard list nonetheless. It basically does the same thing almost, and it's the reason for use #362 of Invisible Spell metamagic.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-07, 06:11 PM
Unless there is some way to actually add wizard & warmage spells to the paladin spell list, then Battle Blessing still only works on Paladin. You do get access to the paladin spell list thanks to Prestige Paladin, but none of the other stuff Kell uses adds spells to the paladin list, and therefore isn't eligible for battle blessing.

Does the feat only say Paladin spells on spell list?
Because otherwise, you are a Paladin (from Prc) and you do have spells.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 06:19 PM
Meh, with all this debate about when Battle Blessing does or does not apply, I'd prefer to use persisted arcane spellsurge from the sorcerer/wizard list nonetheless. It basically does the same thing almost, and it's the reason for use #362 of Invisible Spell metamagic.

Battle Blessing lets you choose whether or not it's going to be a swift spell, meaning you can blast two a round. Arcane Spellsurge doesn't help you in that regard. You can get around it by using +0 LA metamagics, though.


Does the feat only say Paladin spells on spell list?
Because otherwise, you are a Paladin (from Prc) and you do have spells.

Wrong.
Prestige Paladin adds paladin spells to your spell list (which are eligible for battle blessing) and gives you +1 divine spellcasting. The class itself has no spellcasting, as it only advances a prior spellcasting class. Class Name Spells refers to the spells that show up on that class's spell list, not "if a character has X class, then all spells he casts count as X class spells."

In fact, having warmage count as a divine caster class through arcane disciple for prestige paladin to advance opens a huge can of worms with, say, wizard/mystic theurge.

masterjoda99
2010-02-07, 07:40 PM
Battle Blessing lets you choose whether or not it's going to be a swift spell, meaning you can blast two a round. Arcane Spellsurge doesn't help you in that regard. You can get around it by using +0 LA metamagics, though.



Wrong.
Prestige Paladin adds paladin spells to your spell list (which are eligible for battle blessing) and gives you +1 divine spellcasting. The class itself has no spellcasting, as it only advances a prior spellcasting class. Class Name Spells refers to the spells that show up on that class's spell list, not "if a character has X class, then all spells he casts count as X class spells."

In fact, having warmage count as a divine caster class through arcane disciple for prestige paladin to advance opens a huge can of worms with, say, wizard/mystic theurge.
Yes, I was aware of not being able to choose, and needing a +0 metamagic to deal with it. That's why I mentioned Invisible Spell, a +0 metamagic that seems extremely useful.

Also, it's not Arcane Disciple that's giving the warmage the needed divine casting, it's the Contemplate or Rainbow Servant. Contemplative implicitly, Rainbow Servant explicitly, since the latter states outright that cleric spells cast that are not also on an arcane list still count as divine.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-02-07, 08:27 PM
The build looks awfully questionable. I'll stick with the less ambiguous Sarrukh and Dusk Giant.

faceroll
2010-02-07, 08:36 PM
Yes, I was aware of not being able to choose, and needing a +0 metamagic to deal with it. That's why I mentioned Invisible Spell, a +0 metamagic that seems extremely useful.

Also, it's not Arcane Disciple that's giving the warmage the needed divine casting, it's the Contemplate or Rainbow Servant. Contemplative implicitly, Rainbow Servant explicitly, since the latter states outright that cleric spells cast that are not also on an arcane list still count as divine.

Reread the description of arcane disciple and how arcane casters work when adding domain spells through their spell list. You'll see that they're all treated as divine spells, requiring a high wisdom score and everything.

tyckspoon
2010-02-07, 08:42 PM
Reread the description of arcane disciple and how arcane casters work when adding domain spells through their spell list. You'll see that they're all treated as divine spells, requiring a high wisdom score and everything.

.. The description appears to say they become arcane spells for you:

domain's spells to your class list of arcane spells. Arcane spells with some special restrictions, but still arcane spells, subject to Arcane Spell Failure and not qualifying for divine-based casting feats or classes.

Temotei
2010-02-07, 11:01 PM
Two feats I'd recommend: Earth Bloodline (or one of the other Dragon Compendium bloodline feats) for an extra spell levels 1 through 9; and Apprentice (Spellcaster) from DMG II, to get UMD on your list of class skills.

Thank you. :smallsmile: