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View Full Version : Rich Burlew's new Polymorph rules (3.5)



Raging Gene Ray
2010-02-07, 07:56 PM
My DM recently decided to implement these rules (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/dC21fDHZ4tK8n5OjUm9.html) in the middle of a campaign. My character is going to get to pick new spells known...

Still, these new rules seem to make the game a little easier.

TEN times the duration as regular polymorph...with a few castings, I can stay shapechanged all day.

Extraordinary Special QUALITIES. I can get scent...and darkvision...and tremorsense...and lots of other sensory qualities that would normally take a few other spells to gain on top of Polymorph.

And, most notably...I can use it to assume Incorporeal forms. The new rules say that, while the target's creature-type stays the same, they can gain certain SUBTYPES...[Incorporeal] is one of these.

While you can't turn into undead and most [Incorporeal] creatures aren't undead, there are a handful who aren't.

I was wondering if anybody else is or has had a DM incorporate these rules and how they worked out.

Also, has anybody circumvented or would allow circumventing the rule that the shape you assume must be no bigger than one size category above yours by casting Enlarge Person before casting Polymorph (the second part of the new rules prohibits casting Enlarge Person on someone who's [Polymorphed] but not the other way around), or by casting a Polymorph spell twice.

And, if Rich Burlew does read this...could you clarify these if they are abusing the new rules? I couldn't find the old board for discussing the Gaming articles.

Godskook
2010-02-07, 08:05 PM
Animorph dispels enlarge person, and all the other spells 'function as Animorph'.

Tehnar
2010-02-07, 08:26 PM
If your DM houseruled this change in, I don't think that he will allow any tricks to bypass the size restriction.

IMHO it is a very good fix, that fixes a lot of the problems.

Godskook
2010-02-07, 08:52 PM
New castings of Animorph remove the template added by previous versions(And again, all upgraded versions function like it). Ergo, you can only have one casting of it active at a time, even if they're different spell names.

Far as I can tell, none of your 'exploits' work.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-02-07, 08:57 PM
Far as I can tell, none of your 'exploits' work.

???

1) "Exploit" the new and improved duration to stay in polymorph longer. That works.
2) Gain senses like Tremorsense, Blindsight, et Cetera with that nice 10 min/level duration, good range, etc. That works.
3) Assume [incorporeal] forms that aren't undead. This works. Example: Antromorph into an Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied).
4) Circumvent size restrictions. This might work; ask the DM (probably won't)

Raging Gene Ray
2010-02-07, 09:00 PM
Far as I can tell, none of your 'exploits' work.

What about incorporeality? Losing poison, limiting AC and physical stat bonuses to your caster level all fix some problems, but adding the ability to become an Elemental and extending the duration so much, and including sensory qualities seem to unbalance it even more than it was in the first place.

Removing Supernatural abilities gained by Shapechange...yeah, that was very necessary.

Tehnar
2010-02-07, 09:02 PM
Since 1-3 are explicitly allowed by the spell, I don't think you can call them exploits.

You can become a elemental, but you don't get any of the good elemental effects. No DR, no immunities (except in certain cases energy).

Aside from becoming incorporeal (and thats only a very few monsters out of the 1000's printed), the added duration is not such a issue.

Jack_Simth
2010-02-07, 09:49 PM
Rich's version is still very abusable - it's just abusable differently. With standard polymorph, you don't turn your fighter buddy into a Lizardfolk ... because that'd mean he'd lose four points of strength (or more), as his physical attributes would be set to those of the creature. With Rich's, you now have a very long-duration +5 natural armor, +2 Strength (racial, so it stacks with almost everything), plus a few natural weapons for extra attacks. With the duration, it'll last a good chunk of a dungeon adventuring day - and that's just a very, very quick glance at critters. Oh, it also grants fast healing if the new form has that - which means it's pretty easy arcane healing, if you find the right form (pretty efficient, too - with the duration, if you can find a critter with fast healing 1 that'll fit the criteria for Animorph, at minimum caster level, that's 700 points of hp restored ... although it does take a little bit of time).

Plus, you know, it's still rather time-consuming to go over what you do and do not get. Casting this in the middle of a battle is bad (also a problem with existing Polymorph).

I know of three basic methods that have a reasonable chance of balancing polymorphic magic successfully - Rich's rules aren't one of them.

Buff & Illusion
You don't turn your buddy into a War Troll - you make him look like a War Troll, and apply a small selection off of a list of buffs that's built into the spell itself (perhaps an Enlarge Person effect, +2 Strength, and a natural weapon Claw attack). There's no "oh, hey - this form means that this 2nd level spell gives me more boosts than does this 2nd and this 3rd level spell combined!" that you get with the existing Polymorph line (and often for a longer duration, too). This can be balanced based on what exact options are available, and comparing them to other spells of the same level. Additionally, this is faster at the table, because you have X things to change, where X is a fairly small number.

Limited Forms
You don't turn your buddy into a War Troll - that's not on your list of options. Instead, each version of Polymorph has some small listing of available shapes. With a sharply limited list of possibilities, you can vet out the ones that pose difficulties for the spell's level - and thus, can balance the polymorph line of spells based on what options are permitted to the player (This is late 3.5 WotC's choice - the 'shape line is this approach, with each spell granting a single form).

Variant Summoning
You don't turn your buddy into a War Troll - you replace your buddy with a War Troll controlled by your buddy, and apply any damage the War Troll had when the spell ends to your buddy. The player tucks away his character sheet, and uses the entry for the monster as listed, minus problematic abilities (basically, remove all spell-likes, and anything that would have expensive material components or XP components if they were actual arcane spells) (and no, he doesn't get to keep his equipment and already-active spells - those are suppressed for the duration, but any spells cast on the War Troll will work normally until the War Troll is gone). This is fast at the table; you just open the book to the page you want, and ignore the stuff that's not available. This can be balanced based on CR.

ken-do-nim
2010-02-08, 07:09 AM
Variant Summoning
You don't turn your buddy into a War Troll - you replace your buddy with a War Troll controlled by your buddy, and apply any damage the War Troll had when the spell ends to your buddy. The player tucks away his character sheet, and uses the entry for the monster as listed, minus problematic abilities (basically, remove all spell-likes, and anything that would have expensive material components or XP components if they were actual arcane spells) (and no, he doesn't get to keep his equipment and already-active spells - those are suppressed for the duration, but any spells cast on the War Troll will work normally until the War Troll is gone). This is fast at the table; you just open the book to the page you want, and ignore the stuff that's not available. This can be balanced based on CR.

This is how AD&D does it, more or less.

bosssmiley
2010-02-08, 10:14 AM
3E polymorph (the 6 or so official variations, and Rich's mod) always ends up broken because the write up is too complex.

For polymorph to actually work it must either:
replace the character with a monster
~or~
grant a themed selection of buffs, abilities and FX

Attempting to do both (as the current spell write up allows) invites brokenness into your game.

A wise DM would use the Tome Series polymorph spells (see the section entitled Some Spells Don't Work in the Dungeonomicon (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=28547)). One paragraph long, and no wiggle room for polymorph inheritance shenanigans.