Succubi, Suckers

[ondonaflash]

So one thing that bothers me a lot, is people don't seem to be using succubi to their full potential. Succubi can change shape, that means they can pretend to be human, and ostensibly, they are pretty decent actors. That means that if you have the party hunting a succubus, she can turn into a 6 year old girl, and tell people that bad men are trying to hurt her, correct? She can lie and manipulate to make the party seem like total monsters, or even infiltrate the party, by acting kind and helpful, and shy, while wearing some device that prevents alignment detection.

From what I've seen though (which is mostly videogames, to be fair), Succubi always blow their cover when someone says "Hey! That one's a succubus!". If I were running a succubus, that lady would ride her act out to the death. I feel the issue of shapeshifting demons deserves discussion.

[Bibliomancer]

If nothing else, succubi should easily get the drop on any party that doesn't shoot NPCs on sight.

In my last campaign, a succubi level-drained the fighter on watch to death and killed another character before the people with strong will saves woke up.

Interestingly, that succubi had been morphed into a 6 year old girl with all demonic instincts and memories inhibited by an amulet placed by the good conjurer who created the dungeon that they were in. The fighter took off the amulet when the child said that it was hurting her (she was going to bed and about to give the fighter a kiss goodnight), but the party ended up killing her instead of replacing the amulet. If they had put the amulet back, she could have become an ally.

[Altima]

To be fair, mostly in videogames, it's blatantly obvious when someone isn't a 'normal' person (re: succubus), but that's mainly because of, you know, lowest common denominator.

Also, don't forget a succubus's at-will charm. Sure, it probably won't cause the party to turn on each other (probably), but it can certainly sew some confusion, especially applied to a lawful good fighter type ('no, mr. shiny man, please don't let the scary robe-man hurt me!').

Also, for bonus misdirection, have a succubus masquerade as a male. After all, women are supposed to be weak and vicious, but a man is straightforward and would never manipulate.

As for the above poster, sometimes, when you're life is in danger, you're not thinking "hmm, better replace the amulet." No, you're thinking more along the lines of "oh, god, oh god, she just killed that big tank! Muststab/burn/maimheruntilshestopsmoving!"

[Zexion]

I actually really like these ideas for using Succubi. MWAHAHAHAHA

[Xallace]

Also, for bonus misdirection, have a succubus masquerade as a male.

Not just a man, but as a little boy! I mean, I know no one in my group would expect that one. They'd be darn suspicious of a little girl, since they tend to be pretty genre-savvy, but a little boy? Heck no.

Unrelatedly, I'm thinking about succubus agents systematically replacing members of a town and turning the local worship into an unknowing demon cult. Or maybe be a little less subtle about it and have them operate out of a "gentleman's club."

Weirdly enough I don't think anyone in my group would expect the "ladies of the evening" to be soul-sucking demon women, either. Hah, this sounds like fun.

[Tokiko Mima]

Succubi are like version 2.0 Dopplegangers. If they acted decisively enough, they would quickly run entire countries with little or no resistance. It's only their demonic need to feed that ever really brings the smart ones out of hiding.

Don't forget that succubi are one of the more common demons to use possession on mortals, so even the party was positive "that NPC wasn't a demon" last time they talked with him/her, s/he might be a demon/succubus the next time they talk to him. If the party figures this out, possession is a pretty good deal for a demon.. they don't die when the host does, and almost always have ample time to escape before their own demise is threatened. And having the party murder someone "everyone else knows wasn't a demon" is a great way to cause trouble for the PC's without running into alignment issues.

Just remember to have the succubi able to cast Undetectable Alignment, usually from a sorcerer PC level or magic item hidden with Magic Aura. All their shapechaging is useless if a paladin can sniff them out in seconds with detect evil.

[Randel]

Also with the shape-changing ability, they should be able to disguise themselves as statues and such.

By changing their skin patterns they could look like marble statues and just stand still to look like a decoration... if they can turn their 'skin' into a solid structure of bonelike material or armor (ie, if a shapechanger can pretend to have a suit of armor they should easily be able to mimic a solid lump of stone) then it shouldn't be too hard for the to keep the same position for hours at a time. They wouldn't be able to avoid damage if the heroes hit them but its more a matter of avoiding detection.

A statue of an attractive nude? Succubi waiting for you to pass by before she turns back.
Ugly demonlike gargoyle statue? Another succubi.
Little statue of a cherub with wings? Totally a succubi


Plus, like any shapechanger, one great way to avoid detection is to change into something that nobody would expect a shapechanger to change into.

That wrinkled little gnome woman who's wanting to cross the street and gives you a friendly peck on the nose when the big strong human heroes help her? Succubi. I mean, just because she's ugly by human standards doesn't mean the gnomes don't go gaga over her.

That bearded dwarf who's guzzling ale and begging a kiss from the barmaid? So much a Succubi its not even funny.

The warforged who wants to know what this thing called 'love' is? Do I have to say it?

That mysterious old man in the bar who asks for adventurers to help rescue the princess who got kidnapped by an evil wizard? Succubi

The evil wizard? An innocent mage who's set up traps to keep people from breaking in, looting his stuff and killing him.

The princess? The succubi after she broke into the place after the heroes went in and she grabs some stuff... she might show up in full distressed damsel getup just long enough to confuse the heck out of the mage long enough for the heroes to kill him. Expect her to be "very grateful" for her rescue and to backstab the heroes after she grabs what she wants... or she just buggers off and leaves them wondering where the princess and old man are... and why the party rogues pants are missing.

[Xenogears]

Use the Fiend of Possession PrC from Fiend Folio. Now the PC's Loot is a succubus. So is the pool they're bathing in for that matter.

[magic9mushroom]

Use the Fiend of Possession PrC from Fiend Folio. Now the PC's Loot is a succubus. So is the pool they're bathing in for that matter.

Now the lump on the DM's head is a succubus... no, wait, that was just from the whack with a PH.

[Xenogears]

Now the lump on the DM's head is a succubus... no, wait, that was just from the whack with a PH.

And yet it still drained your character of all his levels...

[magic9mushroom]

And yet it still drained your character of all his levels...

The point stands that players don't like constant traps everywhere. You might as well play Tomb of Horrors.

[Xenogears]

The point stands that players don't like constant traps everywhere. You might as well play Tomb of Horrors.

Tomb of Horrors is considered quite popular as a module. But the point is to go in knowing your gonna die of course.

[magic9mushroom]

Tomb of Horrors is considered quite popular as a module. But the point is to go in knowing your gonna die of course.

Exactly. Tomb of Horrors is liked when everyone has throwaway characters and goes in savvy.

[Je dit Viola]

You could just have the succubi be a minor villain, with entirely different goals unrelated to the PCs.

Then, when they finally figure it out, they'll go:

Cleric: Wait...that was a succubi, wasn't she?
Rogue: Yup. Spent a whole night with her, only lost one level.
Cleric: So you knew and didn't tell us?
Rogue: Of course not. She's the one who payed for our adventure. Can't have Mr. McPaladinface over there fall.
Cleric: ...right. So does this mean the dragon we have slain is an agent of good?
Rogue: *shrugs*

[imp_fireball]

So one thing that bothers me a lot, is people don't seem to be using succubi to their full potential. Succubi can change shape, that means they can pretend to be human, and ostensibly, they are pretty decent actors. That means that if you have the party hunting a succubus, she can turn into a 6 year old girl, and tell people that bad men are trying to hurt her, correct? She can lie and manipulate to make the party seem like total monsters, or even infiltrate the party, by acting kind and helpful, and shy, while wearing some device that prevents alignment detection.

From what I've seen though (which is mostly videogames, to be fair), Succubi always blow their cover when someone says "Hey! That one's a succubus!". If I were running a succubus, that lady would ride her act out to the death. I feel the issue of shapeshifting demons deserves discussion.

Well in that one south park episode, the succubus didn't blow her cover when stan and kyle accused her of being such (she was manipulating chef and turning him into a weirdo). Then again, south park is original so...

[Solaris]

Have the female prisoner actually be what she's claiming to be. It's always funny for the paladin's god to give him a sit-down talk as to "Why we don't go around killing helpless people" when the genre-savvy players just waxed an NPC because it might be a monster. Never, ever, ever do the 'The person you just rescued in the dungeon is secretly a succubus/doppelganger/whatever' trick. Everyone and their uncle knows it - hence why most parties just kill everything they find in a dungeon unless they were sent there to rescue it.
Have the person they were sent to rescue be a succubus/doppelganger/whatever. Just don't have it be an attractive young female.

[Eldan]

Of course, Succubi aren't chained down in dungeons anymore. That's way to obvious.
I had an old innkeeper who was an incubus, once, though. He'd shapechange and sneak around draining and tempting people at night. During the day, he was gruff, rarely spoke, but handed out valuable adventuring advice. They never suspected him until it was too late.

[ondonaflash]

And of course the reson Succubi don't already rule a world of strife and despair is because of the constant vigilance of the smite-happy celestials. Of course, if the succubus knows there is a celestial on her tail... Hot damn, I have plots for my next few adventures.

[absolmorph]

Mr. McPaladinface
I chuckled.

[paddyfool]

Somehow, I want to set up an intrigue game where a succubus and a doppleganger are trying to outdo each other in a kind of "let's see who can stir up more ***t in this kingdom without getting caught" contest.

Actually, that could be kind of fun as a pbp game for two-three players and a DM, with one player as one, and the other as the other. And maybe a third being some kind of secret guardian of the kingdom out to catch both of the others. Hmm...

[GolemsVoice]

that lady would ride her act out to the death.

That's not the only thing she rides to death. Yeeehaw!

With that out of my system, yes, I guess ANY well-played shapeshifter is incredibly dangerous. Especially if it's equipped with all the magical powers of a Succubus. And if you want to be an especially evil DM, and your party uses the "fade to black"- approach to sexuality, you tell them "... you and your lady friend go upstairs.....LEVEL DRAIN!".

[Kelb_Panthera]

Wait..... what? There are people that don't play succubi as scheming, manipulative, tricksters? I mean, they're not exactly the most dangerous combat types. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a succubus that got caught, stand and fight if she had any chance of escape.

[paddyfool]

Heh. I've also had an idea for a city where everyone's petrified of sex because of a bunch of succubi that have been going around level-draining people to death in the guise of their boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/whatever, and occasionally as prostitutes/punters besides. (And you thought HIV was scary... imagine having to splash your would-be lover with holy water etc. to check whether they are who they seem to be).

[GolemsVoice]

Wait, you don't? :smallwink:

Yes, Succubi can hold entire kingdoms ransom if placed in the right positions, and that's their job!

[Eldan]

Their limitation, of course, as with most evil outsiders, is that they have to be called or summoned first... but if you do, well, you had it coming.

[Optimystik]

They have another limitation - that when they start running amok down here, the Archons tend to take notice. Good != Stupid, after all.


Now, a Lantern or a Hound may be constrained by regulations and not able to do much himself, but that won't stop him from investigating her doings, and enlisting a ragtag group of misfits to take her scheming ass down.

[Xenogears]

Of course, if the succubus knows there is a celestial on her tail... Hot

Fixed that for you.

[wormwood]

Argh! You guys are driving me crazy. The singular term is succubus! The plural is succubi.

Sorry, slight mental meltdown after seeing it about 50 times in one thread.

[Lysander]

You know what would be really surprising though - a succubus openly living as a succubus and making a fortune as a Greater Teleport courier. Yeah she eats people's souls, but she can afford to pay for the Restoration spells needed to fix her victims.

[Mystral]

I only had one encounter so far with a succubus. She was in a dungeon, chained to a wall. Lame :O

I immediately suggested slaying the **** out of her, but the leader of the bunch of NPCs I was travelling with vouched for her. He even put his honor at stake, saying he would ensure that she meant no harm.

In the next battle against a white dragon, she backstabbed us, charmed one of the warriors and wrecked general havoc. Suckers :O I cleaned up that **** with a dispel magic, while holding back the white dragon singelhandedly, and the succubus fled, never to be seen again. The DM was a little angry that his little trap didn't work as intended, to say the least. Also, I had a few words with Mr. MacPaladinface, yes.

[Choco]

Best use I have had out of a succubus (or any shapechanger at that) was to have her impersonate one of the PC's patrons (an old man) and do the cliche "patron turns out to be the villain and turns on you" act. They had completely wrecked all his forces and were almost ready to kill him by the time they figured out they were being used :smallbiggrin:.

[Flickerdart]

Or, better yet. Every single NPC the players encounter is a succubus. The same succubus. If you need a group of people, the succubus charms the necessary amount.

[Mewtarthio]

And the twist ending is that the PCs themselves are succubi with sleeper agent programming! Because falling rocks are just too boring these days.

[Xenogears]

And the twist ending is that the PCs themselves are succubi with sleeper agent programming! Because falling rocks are just too boring these days.

They've just had Succubi Fiends of Possession possessing (but not controlling) them the whole time

[ondonaflash]

Hey, there are (at last count) three different active threads about shapechangers and their use in a campaign, so I think we've hit Meme status.

Also, I'm big on the whole "Good just means we know we're right" angle of playing angelic beings, so at first, the succubus may be more sympathetic than the Celestial.... Angel. My campaign uses angels. They're like celestials, only more powerful, and not technically exemplars.

[Fishy]

No, John, you are the demonesses.

Ahem. The possession ability that Eberron Succubi get for free (Or rather +2 CR) is ridiculously good fun. Possess a dude, and read all of his memories. Possess a locked door, unlock it. Possess a sword, turn it into a stevebane weapon. And then turn into a profane unholy anarchic weapon when the paladin tries to pick it up. And then curse him, for good measure.

[GolemsVoice]

Can you posess a Succubus? So in the end, they find out that their quest give was really a Succubus. They slay the Succubus, only to find out that SHE was really a GOOD Succubus and posessed by an EVIl Succubus. Succubi all the way down!

[Volkov]

I can imagine a succubus trying to seduce someone, who is actually a shapeshifted pleasure devil and getting in bed with them. It's actually pretty damned hot. :smallbiggrin:

[Mordokai]

I can imagine a succubus trying to seduce someone, who is actually a shapeshifted pleasure devil and getting in bed with them. It's actually pretty damned hot. :smallbiggrin:

Like DnD doesn't already have enough mongrels... :smalltongue:

[ondonaflash]

Succubi and Erinyes... together at last! two great tastes that taste great together!

[Flickerdart]

Nah, fiends probably have some sort of secret handshake. In bed.

[Thrawn183]

Instead of having a single succubus being all over the place, I'm more a fan of a whole bunch of them targeting the adventurers. They infiltrate the leadership, the taverns, everything. Sure they do the whole, your quest giver was actually the bad guy thing, then the players realize that literally everyone they thought was on their side was a succubus. Fun times.

[Signmaker]

Or, better yet. Every single NPC the players encounter is a succubus. The same succubus. If you need a group of people, the succubus charms the necessary amount.

Did that once. The informant was always the same succubus. Sadly I dropped quite a few hints that weren't picked up, and it required a doppleganger and 5 minutes of "Wait...what just happened?" before the connection got made.

But that story will be for another time, when I can adequately write it up.

[Grumman]

Succubi and Erinyes... together at last! two great tastes that taste great together!
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Mordokai]

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Ah, fellow Dork Tower reader! :smallbiggrin: Truly, we are far and few between.

But you are of course right, in this particular case :smallbiggrin:

[Altima]

Hmm, I could see a succubus masquerading as a 'good' drow, attempting to escape his or her (who am I kidding, it'll be a him) evil society in order to live a good life of freedom and--oh, look, he stabbed you.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't work on my current group of players. Firstly, I've turned them into perfectly paranoid little adventurers. Secondly, I loathe the good drow fad and they know it.

Hmmm, but the erinyes vs. succubi sounds like a good campaign premise. Each kingdom has been infiltrated into a mini-Blood War to be fought against each other and it's up to the PCs to solve it survive. Might be a fun evil campaign.

[Prime32]

Nah, fiends probably have some sort of secret handshake. In bed.Make sure you use protection. By which I mean death ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm).

And now I'm picturing a malconvoker with an item of continuous death ward who summons succubi when he gets bored.

[Ashiel]

Make sure you use protection. By which I mean death ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm).

And now I'm picturing a malconvoker with an item of continuous death ward who summons succubi when he gets bored.

And works them into a frenzy. :smallbiggrin:

[illyrus]

The last campaign I ran had several succubi in it. Each one represented a sin in how they operated (not always one the seven deadly sins). One posed as a female halfling alchemist/magic item shopkeeper and had some levels of expert with some fleshcrafting feats (I might have stuck on 1 level of wizard or something to have her qualify, been while). She worked through greed but in no way herself cared about coin, just what she could get with it. The PCs encountered her early on and she asked them to complete a series of tasks for her, promising them a large sum of money with each completed task. She actually paid up for each task and provided discounts for purchases and bought goods at better than DMG recommended price.

From the PC's standpoint, it was a great deal, from her standpoint, she was breaking even plus getting all of her goals completed without risking herself. She stated that she wanted to create a potion that would allow people to regenerate lost limbs and at first sent the good and neutral PCs to capture a live troll (made sense) to study it's blood. The tasks made less and less sense for creating a line of regeneration potions as time progressed. She sent them to assassinate gang leaders, kidnap a fleshcrafting alchemist, and finally capture a vampire and a werewolf. The money was good so the PCs never questioned it and delivered everything she needed then moved onto other things in other parts of the world when she told them that she had nothing else. A month past and she completed her army of abominations and left that plane of existance to have her army tear apart her former demonic master. She even sent the PCs one of the creatures as a gift (it would obey the PC's commands) with a pink bow around it's neck as well as a small box of regeneration potions.

Several months later she tried to scry on one of the PCs (they offered her some of their hair so her crystal ball would have a better chance of working) to message them while they had up a reverse scry spell up and it was revealed what she was (she didn't expect or really care if they had reverse scrying up and saw no reason to appear as a halfling).

The whole party sat in shock. They couldn't believe that the little halfling who had them commit kidnapping and murder and paid them well for it, then used what they had given her to create abominations out of people and given one of them to the PCs as proof, could possibly have been a demon. They turned down her other offer but left her completely alone after that out of worry that she was some supercreature. In reality she had little in the way of personal fighting abilities to deal with a 14th level party as a succubus with some levels in expert.

She was setup as a possible ally or villian and I honestly expected that the party at some point would question her motives instead of being drawn in by greed. I was wrong and it made for an interesting arc in that campaign. Plus the PCs ended up getting a fairly tough little critter that lasted them about 2 sessions before it got killed when they used it as a not-so human shield.

[Optimystik]

And works them into a frenzy. :smallbiggrin:

And gets two per summon.



"OH!!!"

[Mordokai]

And gets two per summon.



"OH!!!"



This opens a whole lot of possibilities... :smallbiggrin:

[Kylarra]

Or, better yet. Every single NPC the players encounter is a succubus. The same succubus. If you need a group of people, the succubus charms the necessary amount.

This reminds me of a joke idea one of my friends had for an Exalted campaign.

"Every single NPC you meet is one of the same group of Lunars who have lots of dots in Heart's Blood."

[Nai_Calus]

Use an Incubus. They'll be too confused to do anything.

[Optimystik]

Use an Incubus. They'll be too confused to do anything.

I wouldn't... :smallamused:

[Volkov]

Use an Incubus. They'll be too confused to do anything.

I still prefer my idea of a sucubus having sex with a pleasure devil with neither realizing that either are fiends.

[Deth Muncher]

I still prefer my idea of a sucubus having sex with a pleasure devil with neither realizing that either are fiends.

Incubus: Why aren't you being level-drained? I swear this has never happened to me before...

[GolemsVoice]

I wouldn't...
Well, one of you is a godless abomination whose sexual morals are against all that is good and holy, and the other one is an incubus. :smallwink:
It's a JOKE, just in case!

Did anyone ever notice that Succubi/Incubi would have little use in the Blood War? I doubt that demons are prone to the charms of a Succubus (though they might appreciate her horns'n'hoofs original form more than any other, and the higher ranking fiends will likely be paranoid enough to ward themselves agaisnt shapeshifters.

[Optimystik]

Incubus: Why aren't you being level-drained? I swear this has never happened to me before...

Don't worry, it happens to every guy sooner or later.


Did anyone ever notice that Succubi/Incubi would have little use in the Blood War? I doubt that demons are prone to the charms of a Succubus (though they might appreciate her horns'n'hoofs original form more than any other, and the higher ranking fiends will likely be paranoid enough to ward themselves agaisnt shapeshifters.

Souls are the unobtainium fueling the war. Without attractive fiends to seduce the horny misguided mortals, there would be many less souls coming in to fuel their magic and war machines. So the slutty... er, "less combative" fiends do serve a key role in the war.

[Riffington]

Make sure you use protection. By which I mean death ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm).

And now I'm picturing a malconvoker with an item of continuous death ward who summons succubi when he gets bored.

There's some decent stories with that premise. Against this board's rules, of course, but fun.

[Flickerdart]

Well, one of you is a godless abomination whose sexual morals are against all that is good and holy, and the other one is an incubus. :smallwink:
It's a JOKE, just in case!

Did anyone ever notice that Succubi/Incubi would have little use in the Blood War? I doubt that demons are prone to the charms of a Succubus (though they might appreciate her horns'n'hoofs original form more than any other, and the higher ranking fiends will likely be paranoid enough to ward themselves agaisnt shapeshifters.
A succubus shapeshifts into another succubus and backstabs a high-ranking devil, who turned out to be another succubus who already killed him.

[Mewtarthio]

Did anyone ever notice that Succubi/Incubi would have little use in the Blood War? I doubt that demons are prone to the charms of a Succubus (though they might appreciate her horns'n'hoofs original form more than any other, and the higher ranking fiends will likely be paranoid enough to ward themselves agaisnt shapeshifters.

Wow. Other demons must hate succubi. They spend all their time fighting and constantly getting killed and re-killed, while the succubi just hang around and wait for some fool to summon them so they can go have sex with as many people as possible.

Of course, the succubi have the slight disadvantage of their main combat tactic being "tackle-glomp the enemy and attempt to make out with him/her." I don't imagine it works very well against, say, disgruntled Balors...

[Optimystik]

Of course, the succubi have the slight disadvantage of their main combat tactic being "tackle-glomp the enemy and attempt to make out with him/her." I don't imagine it works very well against, say, disgruntled Balors...

I think you meant Pit Fiend - Balors have no reason to be disgruntled at succubi.

[Altima]

Wow. Other demons must hate succubi. They spend all their time fighting and constantly getting killed and re-killed, while the succubi just hang around and wait for some fool to summon them so they can go have sex with as many people as possible.

Of course, the succubi have the slight disadvantage of their main combat tactic being "tackle-glomp the enemy and attempt to make out with him/her." I don't imagine it works very well against, say, disgruntled Balors...

Succubi are also, generally, consorts to high-ranking demons (like Grazz't, who probably has a flippin' plane devoted to his harem). It's also quite hard for succubi to get to the prime material plane, though probably easier than most other sorts of demons. So they're around, ahem, servicing the troops more than you think.

Also, the succubi are in charge of the, erm, breeding pits. Ever heard of cambions? Half-fiend birth goes both ways, and there's more than one way succubi can bolster the troops.

Plus succubi aren't half-bad fighters. Certainly can't stand up to erinyes, but I imagine their desire to avoid combat leads them to some rather sneaky tactics atypical of most tanar'ri.

[Mordokai]

I think you meant Pit Fiend - Balors have no reason to be disgruntled at succubi.

We're talking about effin' CE race of beings. They are digruntled by everything, by definition. Balors perhaps doubly so, seeing they have the power to pretty much crush everything, save for demon princes. And a molydeus or two...

[Optimystik]

We're talking about effin' CE race of beings. They are digruntled by everything, by definition. Balors perhaps doubly so, seeing they have the power to pretty much crush everything, save for demon princes. And a molydeus or two...


Fair enough - they have considerably less reason based solely on the fact that every minute they spend trying to kill a succubus is a minute they're not spending on trying to kill an erinyes.

Better? :smalltongue:

[Mewtarthio]

Fair enough - they have considerably less reason based solely on the fact that every minute they spend trying to kill a succubus is a minute they're not spending on trying to kill an erinyes.

Better? :smalltongue:

That's why they're disgruntled, obviously. A disgruntled Pit Fiend wouldn't necessarily attack a succubus. In fact, a Pit Fiend attacking a succubus would probably be very happy indeed, given how much they enjoy fighting chaos.

Also, Pit Fiends aren't as funny. I mean, it's one thing to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off; it's another thing entirely to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off and is perpetually on fire.

[Tome]

I recall in one game one of my PCs managed to defeat a succubus using a combination of his Touch Of Golden Ice feat and a Deathward spell. If you know what I mean. :smalltongue:

*Insert "It was hot/cool" pun here.*

[Kylarra]

That's why they're disgruntled, obviously. A disgruntled Pit Fiend wouldn't necessarily attack a succubus. In fact, a Pit Fiend attacking a succubus would probably be very happy indeed, given how much they enjoy fighting chaos.

Also, Pit Fiends aren't as funny. I mean, it's one thing to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off; it's another thing entirely to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off and is perpetually on fire.Psh they'd only take 11 points of fire damage per round!

[Volkov]

That's why they're disgruntled, obviously. A disgruntled Pit Fiend wouldn't necessarily attack a succubus. In fact, a Pit Fiend attacking a succubus would probably be very happy indeed, given how much they enjoy fighting chaos.

Also, Pit Fiends aren't as funny. I mean, it's one thing to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off; it's another thing entirely to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off and is perpetually on fire.

The former has some of the most potent poison in the multiverse. With a saving throw against death.

[Mewtarthio]

I recall in one game one of my PCs managed to defeat a succubus using a combination of his Touch Of Golden Ice feat and a Deathward spell. If you know what I mean. :smalltongue:

...You defeated it with holy STDs? :smalleek:

[AstralFire]

I recall in one game one of my PCs managed to defeat a succubus using a combination of his Touch Of Golden Ice feat and a Deathward spell. If you know what I mean. :smalltongue:

*Insert "It was hot/cool" pun here.*


...You defeated it with holy STDs? :smalleek:

This is, hands down, the most goddamned brilliant thing in this thread. Everything else is standard 'evil DM' fare.

[Tanuki Tales]

You know, I've always been curious on this fact...

How do we even know that there is a distinct Incubus race and a distinct Succubus race and not just Succubi jumping between genders?

[Tinydwarfman]

A good succubi would make for a great 'to catch a predator' spoof. :smallbiggrin:

[JoshuaZ]

You know, I've always been curious on this fact...

How do we even know that there is a distinct Incubus race and a distinct Succubus race and not just Succubi jumping between genders?

Interesting point to bring up. In fact, in some myths they aren't at all different. They switch genders each time they have sex. This sort of issue was discussed quite seriously. Aquinas speculated that succubi took seed from males they had intercourse with and then turned into incubi to give that seed to female victims. However, others writers seem pretty sure that succubi and incubi are distinct creatures. In general, with almost any form of folklore there are a lot of different versions. Moreover, a lot of the time, folklore doesn't make as careful distinctions between creatures as we do. In Eastern European myths, vampires and werewolves lived sort of on a continuum of evil shapechangers.

[GolemsVoice]

Ok, I thought primarily of actually fighting in the Blood War, like, bashing in each other's horned heads. Of course, Succubi DO have their uses in the Blood War, even if we stay inside the Lower Planes. I imagine them to be something of "administration", since they seem more level-headed than most front-line devils, and have a good connection to higher-ranking fiends.

[Brother Oni]

Interesting point to bring up. In fact, in some myths they aren't at all different. They switch genders each time they have sex. This sort of issue was discussed quite seriously. Aquinas speculated that succubi took seed from males they had intercourse with and then turned into incubi to give that seed to female victims. However, others writers seem pretty sure that succubi and incubi are distinct creatures. In general, with almost any form of folklore there are a lot of different versions. Moreover, a lot of the time, folklore doesn't make as careful distinctions between creatures as we do. In Eastern European myths, vampires and werewolves lived sort of on a continuum of evil shapechangers.

I was under the impression that succubi represented seduction aspect of sex, while incubus represented the rape aspect of sex.

Basically 'lead to do things aginst your will' compared to 'forced to do things against your will', if you see what I mean. Crap, I'm not explaining it very well, am I? :smallsigh:

[ondonaflash]

Good point: In a world where gender is as flexible as a level five spell, does gender actually matter?

One work that does a good job of showing Balor-Succubi Dynamic is "The Spine of the World", by RA Salvatore. Wulfgar has flashbacks to his time trapped in the Abyss (It messes him up hard, he actually recovers more quickly than I expected). But in 4e they got rid of Erinyes, and the Succubi switched sides, makes more sense to me, since I always viewed temptation as more of a Devil thing than a Demon thing, and that's basically all Succubi do.

[hamishspence]

Erinyes are still around- in 4E MM2. They don't have wings though- and are soldiers, not tempters.

Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Malcanthet (3.5 Dragon Magazine) has the rules for incubi.

[JoshuaZ]

I was under the impression that succubi represented seduction aspect of sex, while incubus represented the rape aspect of sex.


Possibly. There's a mix in the mythological material. Succubi definitely go against unwilling people while sleeping in a fair bit of myths. They were used to explain certain occurences among human males that occur during sleep. Spelling that out further would likely be too explicit for board rules.

[Zeful]

Good point: In a world where gender is as flexible as a level five spell, does gender actually matter?

Second level spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm), actually.

[lesser_minion]

Succubi are also, generally, consorts to high-ranking demons (like Grazz't, who probably has a flippin' plane devoted to his harem). It's also quite hard for succubi to get to the prime material plane, though probably easier than most other sorts of demons. So they're around, ahem, servicing the troops more than you think.

I'm pretty sure I remember something about Malcanthet feeling everything her succubi did, although it could have been mortal thralls.

I'm also pretty sure Grazz't and Malcanthet are sworn enemies.

[hamishspence]

They hate each other- but they are in a state of "cold war" which involves sending numerous spies into each other's domains.

[Nai_Calus]

Also, succubi are in charge of the, erm, breeding pits. Ever heard of cambions? Half-fiend birth goes both ways, and there's more than one way succubi can bolster the troops.

.

Actually cambions were supposed to have a demon father and a mortal mother. Alu-fiends were the ones who had succubi as mothers. At least according to Planescape, anyway.

[hamishspence]

Still the case in Demonomicon: Malcanthet.

Cambions as a separate creature from half-fiends, actually exist in 3.5- in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

Unlike half-fiends, one parent was usually a planetouched, rather than a full human. They do not have wings. And are Extraplanar Outsiders native to the Abyss, with the Chaotic and Evil subtypes.

That is to say, technically fiends, and demons.

Yet, are only Often Chaotic Evil, Usually Evil (10% are Neutral or Good).