(3.5) Building a campaign world, seeking advice on races

[Gnorman]

So, long story short: I'm making a new campaign world. Nothing truly out of the ordinary - epic fantasy, bit o' steampunk, and no friggin' elves.

Like, seriously. No elves. Anywhere. Like gnomes in Dark Sun, elves have gone the way of the dinosaur. In fact, so did halflings. And probably gnomes too. Half-orcs are right out. Maybe the dwarves too (except I like the dwarves). Hell, I may even throw out humans and start all over from scratch. It's a work in progress.

So obviously I need to fill some niches for my players. And I'm hoping to put together a catalogue of races for the game world that not only is comprised of fun and balanced races, but also, you know, makes sense. Geographical sense. Like, lizardfolk live in warm marshes. Goliaths live on the steppes and plateaus.

So if you were to eliminate most of the core races, what would you replace them with? What kind of ecological, geographical, and demographical holes should be filled?

Assume the world is kind of like Eberron, in that there's a place for everything in D&D in it. I'm open to pretty much anything, even homebrew, but let's try to shy away from most of the anthropomorphic animal races - not really my style. Except thri-kreen. Thri-kreen are awesome.

Hell, even just suggestions for your favorite non-core races.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I don't think Gnolls get enough love, personally.

If you ever have a specific niche you need filled, I'd love to try homebrewing something. I always wanted to try homebrewing a race...

[AslanCross]

Goblinoids. Like Eberron did, give Goblinoids a respectable place in your setting. Remove the level adjustment from the hobgoblins (seriously, they don't need it), and have them essentially replace the elves. No more soft and lithe guys. Have some agile AND tough guys.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I'd like to note here that I also feel you should have some race living in the woods in villages. Sort of like Ewoks, but everyone seems to hate them, so I won't say that.

[Gnorman]

I'd like to note here that I also feel you should have some race living in the woods in villages. Sort of like Ewoks, but everyone seems to hate them, so I won't say that.

See, that's the design space I am trying to fill now that elves are dead. And ewoks. Man. I can't... quite decide which I hate more. Elves or ewoks. Tough call.

Goblinoids, yes. Big fan. I'm going to include blues as well, and eliminate the LA on both blues and hobgoblins. Bugbears we'll see about, but most of the goblinoids I am totally ecstatic to include as genuine, fleshed-out options.

[The Dark Fiddler]

See, that's the design space I am trying to fill now that elves are dead. And ewoks. Man. I can't... quite decide which I hate more. Elves or ewoks. Tough call.

*Cracks open the rarely used homebrew portion of my brain* I'll whip something up for you completely unlike elves and ewoks. And anthropomorphic animals. And hopefully Tarzan.

Edit: Huh, that doesn't leave a lot of options... I'll do it anyway!

...do you have anything against non-anthropomorphic animal races? :smalltongue:

[Draz74]

While I personally like certain versions of elves, I approve of the strategy of making a setting distinctive by taking away some of the cliche races, rather than adding new races. Make it so that every race you actually allow to continue existing has a well-defined niche and feels like a major part of the setting. (Having obscure, rare creatures in a setting makes sense ... but such creatures should not be intelligent humanoids.)

I approve of your mentioning lizardfolk. Now there's a classic race that never gets any love. Make them one of the main races in your setting.

Normally I don't think a world should include both lizardfolk and troglodytes, but if lizardfolk are a very major race on the surface and trogs are the main subterranian foe, I could see it. Give them a rivalry sort of like what the elves and the drow have in other settings.

Planetouched are often a good option to flesh out into a fully-functional race. Feytouched, for example, could be your main forest race. Though, hmmm, if you hate elves, you might not be fond of feytouched either. Genasi are good, if any of the Elements are an important thematic element in your world. (You can even pick just one kind; for example, Earth Genasi might exist without the other three types.)

For an ironic twist, you could make Thri-Kreen the iconic "forest" race. Bugs live in forests. Jumping is useful in forests. It works.

Really, if you have thri-kreen, goblins, hobgoblins, blues, bugbears, lizardfolk, and goliaths, and you give them all rich enough fluff, I think that's plenty of sentient humanoid options. And that's even if you leave out humans.

One last random thought: I would like to see a major fungoid race sometime. That could work well for "forest," too.

[Gnorman]

*Cracks open the rarely used homebrew portion of my brain* I'll whip something up for you completely unlike elves and ewoks. And anthropomorphic animals. And hopefully Tarzan.

Edit: Huh, that doesn't leave a lot of options... I'll do it anyway!

...do you have anything against non-anthropomorphic animal races? :smalltongue:

So... just animals then?

I was thinking perhaps a brachiating species. Maybe even one that already exists - I believe the choices are... ratatosks... and vanara? Or at least something inspired by them.

When it comes to the whole anthropomorphic animal thing, I just like to keep them as human as possible. Shifters and thri-kreen are about as animalistic as I'm willing to go. And thri-kreen are acceptable only because they're so alien. I don't know, something about insects and reptiles are acceptable to me in a way that mammals, birds, and even anthropomorphic fish really aren't. Weird? Maybe.


Planetouched are often a good option to flesh out into a fully-functional race. Feytouched, for example, could be your main forest race. Though, hmmm, if you hate elves, you might not be fond of feytouched either. Genasi are good, if any of the Elements are an important thematic element in your world. (You can even pick just one kind; for example, Earth Genasi might exist without the other three types.)

Big fan of planetouched - tieflings especially will be a major race, even if I throw out humans. Feytouched is fine - I like my fey creatures distant and capricious, likely to play with you or leave you to the wolves depending on their whimsy. Elves are just too overdone and too arrogant for my tastes. I like creatures that are completely different from the norm.

Changelings, for example, are going to be my "feytouched" - I'm giving them a CHA bonus in the setting, and they're going to be descended from fey rather than doppelgangers.

[Da Beast]

I've always wanted a campaign world without humans. Seriously, why does every race have to have a niche environment but humans?

If you have Stormrack, look up Hadozees. It's a race of ape-men with flying squirrel skin flaps for gliding. They're (for some reason) flavored as a race of boat dwelling sailors, but they could easily be refluffed as forest dwellers to replace elves.

Edit: also, consider replacing gliding with brachiation (C Adv) as a bonus feat.

[Gnorman]

I've always wanted a campaign world without humans. Seriously, why does every race have to have a niche environment but humans?

If you have Stormrack, look up Hadozees. It's a race of ape-men with flying squirrel skin flaps for gliding. They're (for some reason) flavored as a race of boat dwelling sailors, but they could easily be refluffed as forest dwellers to replace elves.

Oh man I forgot about Hadozee. They're like... the love child of a vanara and a ratatosk.

God my ewok sense is tingling but I LIKE THE MONKEY MEN.

[The Dark Fiddler]

One last random thought: I would like to see a major fungoid race sometime. That could work well for "forest," too.

This would be totally awesome.

[Sinfire Titan]

Viletooth Lizardfolk from Dragon Magic are fairly interesting (if you ignore what it says about adding to the MM version).


Skarn and Rilkan are a personal favorite. As is Warforged.

[dragonfan6490]

I say you put in Elves no, wait, Elvaan, wait, damn. :smalltongue: Just kidding, I personally like Elves, but settings without them are interesting. And I approve of your disposal of the Halflings.

[BRC]

I find rather than sticking in odd-races willy-nilly, it's a better idea to put new twists on existing races. Maybe rather than being conquering hordes, Hobgoblins have a well-ordered society run by a massive bureaucracy. Dwarves, with such a cultural focus on mining and smithing, are reliant on other communities for things like food. I could imagine a duel Dwarven/Halfling society, with a small number of dwarves living underground, digging and building, while Halflings live above ground farming.

[ZombieGenesis]

I faced something similar when planning for my fantasy novel- didn't want any elves, or gnomes, or dwarves. Not that I dislike them, not at all, I just wanted to make something more unique than that. As much as I love J.R.R I can't help but feel the existence of a 'typical' fantasy setting is a bit of an insult to the term 'fantasy'.
I went mostly for humanoid races of my own design. Large, semi-beast people from the north, short but slender dark skinned people of the south with gemstone eyes and more canine teeth than a usual humanoid. I even went semi towards an orc race but decided to make them mindless, and instead of the usual bulking bulldozers they're freakishly tall and gangly.

If you want the conventional D&D races of course then there are plenty of books that supply varying kinds, but if you decide to pop for homebrew there are plenty of odd concoctions and creations that you can come up with. Forget elves, let's have... magical cannibal bear-people!

[Altima]

Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins.

Gnolls, harpies, lamias.

Medusa, yuan-ti.

Minotaurs, Sahuagin.

There's also fey, like Thorns, Sirines, and the like.

>.>

<.<

Half-elves.

[Fhaolan]

Do Centaurs and their ilk fall under too 'furry'? There's all sorts of things you can do with them. I'm thinking Hybsils might make reasonable elf-niche-replacements. Smaller than centaurs, deer-based, etc. Very foresty and fae.

[Dimers]

Spiritfolk from OA would make good forestdwellers, and their types are infinitely expandible -- e.g. fungus spiritfolk :smallsmile: They're sorta elfy, but more on the "fey" end of things. But they really only make sense in a game setting that either plays up the dangerous mystery of The Woods, or else has lots of involvement with spirits in other areas.

[JonestheSpy]

I tend to make this recommendation a lot, but I'll do it again: read Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. It's a steampunk/fantasy hybrid in a world with all sorts of weird races, nothing even vaguely based on the European mythology and folklore that is the basis for yer Standard Fantasy World (tm). Except vampires, he's got a few of those.

[NemoUtopia]

Do away with humans entirely...or rather, almost entirely. Humans once existed but are now extinct because of some cultural/deific event that created the planetouched races as native outsiders from all the living humans. So now you have the four elemental and two moral races filling all of your surface cultural needs...you can even have one of them be a slave race. Earth take the place of dwarves, water make up the seafarers and live mostly in coastal regions (or near lakes), air is ubiquitously spread out (they replace 'standard human'), and fire fulfills a role of your choice. Alternately, fire takes the place of Dwarves and earth is the 'slave race' for the campaign setting.

Tieflings and aasimar can replace your elf/drow dichotomy, but doesn't have to be surface/underworld. Forest/swamp actually makes a great conflict, and can focus on both the life/death aspect of good vs evil as well as the pure/coruption. The arid, desert areas are primarially a lizard race or races: dragon-kin, low-ECL variety Yuan-ti, and others I don't have immediate access to. The mountainous areas do away with orcs and giants (except goliaths?), and are the center of true goblinoid society. Maybe ruled by blues, goblins as standard citizens, and hobgoblins as elite citizens (but lesser than blues)?

This fills all of the coneivable niches in the world, gives a large pool of options to players, and as a bonus the races are humanoid/esque while markedly NOT human. Reading some of the thoughts above, you could make other monstrous races included, such as a specific mountain range being the last hold out of kobold and gnoll society against the goblinoids. The Hadozee could be somewhat Viking but come from an area that is like the border between Canada and the US: forested but with harsh and long winters.

[GenPol]

I don't think Gnolls get enough love, personally.

+1

I would go for gnolls myself, because I can't think of any other campaign that makes much use for them, which I don't understand.

But on designing your own races, maybe design the terrain first, and then build humanoids that would logically evolve from there.

EDIT: Kobolds could be pretty cool too... :smalltongue:

[Randel]

Hmm...

For woodland areas then something like shifters or gnolls, like wolfmen or something. They don't go for the whole 'live with nature' thing, they are the predators that hide in the darkness and attack travelers. Maybe a few of them have learned to live with other races mostly trading stuff to get iron weapons or something. Or maybe like wolfpacks they follow whoever is strongest and when the Empire of Man shows up with their spears and weapons they decide to go along with them kind of like domesticated dogs.

Other races call the 'defectors' to be cowardly lapdogs but they have basically figured out to pick their battles and choose the side that gets them what they want. They are the monstrous race that is totally willing to work with the civilized ones if they are allowed to.


For wetlands... maybe some sort of troll-like creature. Like the bridge troll in three billy goats gruff. They are big semi-aquatic creatures that are good at swimming and grabbing things with their teeth and hands... also wrestling with alligators.

The Water Trolls are popular around coastal areas, rivers and swamps. They can't breath underwater but occasionally make their homes in underwater caves or other places people can't follow. While not really a social race they do have 'tribes' or a sort where they meet together and trade. If someone threatens the area or kills one of them then the whole tribe bands together to seeks revenge on whoever killed them. Water Trolls are somewhat similar to orcs but instead of inhabiting areas where nobody goes, they tend to go for watery areas where they can often run into people or travelers. Tribes may sometimes find all the watery areas inhabited or controlled by dangerous creatures or civilizations, in which case they tend to go nomadic until they can find a suitable place to live.

Civilized Water Trolls are strong and are quite capable or living on land like other races but retain their skills at swimming and can use their strong arms and reflexes in battle.



Other sort of half-ideas:

The Tanuki, short raccoon dog creatures from a distant land. They possess the magical ability to transform into inanimate objects and otherwise blend into their surroundings.

Noppera-bo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noppera-b%C5%8D) a race of cursed humans whose faces have been stolen by a dark god ages ago. They have darkvision (despite their complete lack of eyes) and a slightly increased intelligence... though their lack of faces really hits their charisma. Noppera-bo tend to wear masks at all times to cover their faceless heads. Many of them delve into magic or try to contact demons to get their faces back while other just go along with it.

Roklings bear a resemblance to animated statues. Being made out of stone, they are slow but strong. They eat rock, have no real need to breath, and don't tire easily.

[Asheram]

How about the return of the Unseelie court then? Wicked fairies are always fun to deal with.

[Masaioh]

Create a large-size race. AFAIK, not many campaigns have those.

Also, I'm curious to hear the fluff behind elves going extinct, if you've given it any thought.

[NemoUtopia]

Create a large-size race. AFAIK, not many campaigns have those.

Also, I'm curious to hear the fluff behind elves going extinct, if you've given it any thought.

Extinct assumes they existed in the campaign world to begin with.

[Masaioh]

Extinct assumes they existed in the campaign world to begin with.

Sorry, that's what I assumed when OP used the dinosaur metaphor.

[lsfreak]

While it looks like you're going a different direction, my vote is almost always on eliminating everything (or almost everything) except humans. Replace 'races' with 'cultures,' having cultural stats rather than racial stats. Anyone raised in a specific culture gets that culture's stats, no matter their actual lineage, unless maybe they had some kind of specific training.

Alternatively, I like promoting goblins, giants/large monstrous humanoids, and fey to more frontline roles.

[Gnorman]

One last random thought: I would like to see a major fungoid race sometime. That could work well for "forest," too.

Trolls. Made of mushrooms.


I find rather than sticking in odd-races willy-nilly, it's a better idea to put new twists on existing races. Maybe rather than being conquering hordes, Hobgoblins have a well-ordered society run by a massive bureaucracy. Dwarves, with such a cultural focus on mining and smithing, are reliant on other communities for things like food. I could imagine a duel Dwarven/Halfling society, with a small number of dwarves living underground, digging and building, while Halflings live above ground farming.

Yes, but: I want to put a sharp focus on the ignored races here.


There's also fey, like Thorns, Sirines, and the like.

And Killoren, whom I totally forgot about. Total forest niche.


I tend to make this recommendation a lot, but I'll do it again: read Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. It's a steampunk/fantasy hybrid in a world with all sorts of weird races, nothing even vaguely based on the European mythology and folklore that is the basis for yer Standard Fantasy World (tm). Except vampires, he's got a few of those.

Read it, loved the cactus people and frog men.


Lots of stuff

I like this a lot. Planetouched are fun - I hadn't thought to use genasi.

So the campaign world is shaping up something like this: eons ago, the world was a typical fantasy world. Elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. But a demonic invasion changed all that, and left many of the races extinct. The dwarves left their axes in demon gullets, while the elves slowly lost a great battle of guerilla warfare and attrition. Halflings and gnomes scattered and were hunted for sport. The battles were long since fought, but it left the planet with great jagged scars, a rush of volcanic activity, and a lingering fiendish influence. The world is still full of demons, cultists, and hidden evil, but civilization is finally able to grow and prosper once again.

The humans were used as a slave race by the fiends, and when they were finally driven from the world by celestial forces, tieflings and aasimar were left as a result, to continue the grand conflict between good and evil. Both races have built empires, and are constantly at war with one another. The tieflings, preferring the warmer, steamier climate, moved southwards and come into conflict with the reptilian races. Think the Mediterranean, Roman and Greek influences. The aasimar expanded north, and have run headlong into the goblinod empire. Germanic and northern European influences.

The world, though scarred, is lush and verdant. It's mostly warm and tropical, though arid deserts exist. Lizardfolk thrive in the swamps and jungles, constructing rigid societies ruled by priests and mystics. They'll probably end up being a blend of Egyptian and Aztec influences. The deserts are ruled by nomadic thri-kreen, tending to great flocks of beetles and guarding their precious water sources fiercely. Like Bedouins with exoskeletons.

Goblins have formed an efficient culture (think Imperial China) with a strict caste system: blues are the bureaucrats and philosophers, hobgoblins are the warrior caste, and goblins are the laborers and common people. Bugbears reject the system, and live as bandits and criminals. They have a small but bustling empire. Just across a small sea lies a much smaller land populated by kalashtar-inspired psychic humans - they survived the war by making a defensive pact with some otherworldly entities.

North of them are frost-tipped peaks populated by orcs and goliaths, who maintain an uneasy peace and rivalry. The orcs live beneath the cliffs in the pines, while the goliaths populate the steppes and mountaintops above. Mongolian, Russian, and Native American influences, most likely.

The warforged were created by the gnomes before they were wiped from the face of the earth. Many of them are ancient beings, but legends tell of a forge operational deep in the heart of a volcano that still churns out new warforged - a forge that may be run by the last living dwarf.

Changeling are half-fey creatures switched as infants. They instinctively take on the appearance of their parents and are raised without knowing their true nature. Their fey parents may remember them and return years later to instruct them in their heritage, but many changelings go through life without even knowing what they are capable of.

Stout: Lizardfolk, orc, gnoll, thri-kreen, goliath, warforged

High Men: Tiefling, aasimar, blue

Mundane: Human (maybe), Hobgoblin, goblin

Fairy: Changeling

Lately, I'm thinking that the "gods" of this world may simply be ascended outsiders, demons and angels who stuck around and became deities to watch over their flock.

I'm going for grimdark, but not Warhammer grimdark. A blend of that, Dawnforge's epicness, and Eberron's steampunkiness - the tiefling empire will certainly be all about clockwork and magitech, I think.

[Altima]

Hmm, demonic invasion seems so...overdone.

Perhaps you could cause the major extinction to be the Final Battle Between Good and Evil.

First option is to have it between, as you said, celestials and fiends, with the 'civilized' races caught in the middle, and all of them running around and screaming about why both sides are, and eventually do, destroying them.

Second option would be to have said civilized races' gods do the final showdown. Since no one really cares about the non-demis deities, they're the ones who survive to guide and proper their chosen races, while the elves, dwarves, and human deities (and races) wipe each other out.

Bonus points where if the demis were wiped out, none of the good/evil forces considered the dirt-ball important enough to even fight over.

[Gnorman]

Hmm, demonic invasion seems so...overdone.

Perhaps you could cause the major extinction to be the Final Battle Between Good and Evil.

First option is to have it between, as you said, celestials and fiends, with the 'civilized' races caught in the middle, and all of them running around and screaming about why both sides are, and eventually do, destroying them.

Second option would be to have said civilized races' gods do the final showdown. Since no one really cares about the non-demis deities, they're the ones who survive to guide and proper their chosen races, while the elves, dwarves, and human deities (and races) wipe each other out.

Bonus points where if the demis were wiped out, none of the good/evil forces considered the dirt-ball important enough to even fight over.

Yeah, demonic invasion's been done - but I want to do the aftermath, not the invasion itself. What happens after a world has been devastated by the Blood War? Kind of post-post-apocalyptic, if you will.

But I like the idea of having the gods of elves and orcs destroy each other, dwarves and goblins... that kind of thing. Now perhaps there are no real gods, just powerful outsiders and burgeoning new immortals.

[Gnorman]

Okay, so I've been struck with a new bit of inspiration. Instead of the whole demonic invasion thing, imagine if the Lords of the Abyss took a break from their constant schemes and sat down together to play a world-building game (Lolth wasn't invited, having ascended to true godhood). Most likely to scheme against each other some more. Each demon lord had the chance to create/import a chosen race and shape the primordial soup of the world.

But as is so often the way with chaotic beings, they lost interest and abandoned it. Now long since abandoned by their Abyssal overlords, the races have forged their own way in the world, casting off the yoke of their demon masters.

Baphomet: Respecting strength and ferocity, chose the beastmen, the product of his breeding program with minotaurs, orcs, and various fiends. Though primitive, they are possessed of a savage cunning. They occupy the hinterlands and taiga of the world.

Dagon: Dagon's servitor race is the kuo-toa, who no longer had sahuagin to deal with in this new world. They are fanatically religious their lord, but a few have broken away to form isolated fishing communities in hidden coves and reefs. The vast majority, however, have populated the shallows and coastlines, where they pose a constant danger to other races.

Demogorgon: With his two minds constantly bickering over what race to use, Demogorgon eventually decided on the goblinoids, who had multiple species involved and thus satisfied his divided nature. Like their master, they often come into conflict with themselves, but the empires they build are powerful and long-lasting. A rigid caste system divides them, with goblins being the manual laborers and merchants, hobgoblins the warriors, and blues the clerks and bureaucrats. The bugbears broke away from the caste system and now are mostly bandits, rebels, and criminals.

Fraz-Urb'luu: The Prince of Deception, naturally, chose a race known for both their stealthiness, manipulative nature, and penchant for illusions: the gnomes. Favoring the comfort and luxury of the city, they built their own or maneuvered their way into the spires of others. Utterly lazy, the race is nevertheless brilliant, and they have created the warforged to serve as their bodyguards and litterbearers.

Graz'zt: Favoring contrast, variety, and his own image, Graz'zt populated the fertile valleys and plains with tieflings. Now they have grown to be the dominant race of the world, with powerful city-states dotting the coastlines and rivers.

Juiblex: The shapeless lord's whims are inscrutable and ever-changing. Appropriately, then, his chosen people are the changelings, whose nature and very form is constantly fluid. They are passers and deceivers, eternal vagabonds throughout the world.

Kostchtchie: The frost dwarves, an offshoot of an enslaved tribe of duergar, are the giant demon lord's chosen race. They have a natural resistance to cold and so occupy the glacial reaches of the world. Some have moved southwards, still sticking to their mountain ranges and cavernous fortresses.

Malcanthet: The Queen of Succubi could not imagine a race that did not approach her own beauty, so her chosen were the aasimar. Of course, this presented a problem - why would a demon lord choose a good race for her own? Perhaps to see them fall? Carefully selecting for the most alluring specimens, both from eladrin stock and charming evil creatures like succubi or mariliths

Obox-Ob: The obyrith lord's chosen are appropriately alien and insectile, far removed from familiar mindsets. The thri-kreen are pack hunters and herders in the deserts of the world, riding stag beetle as mounts and guarding their few water sources jealously.

Orcus: The stench of death and the unholy power of unlife are Orcus' weapons of choice, and his people will always be infected by the touch of the grave. Known as graveborn, his people are civilized and polite, if somewhat cold to the touch. They are comfortable with necromancy and their societies and cities use zombies and skeletons as slave labor.

Pale Night: The Mother of Demons has always appreciated the power of the mind over the power of the body, and her chosen reflect that decision. Though ostensibly human, they were bound to a race of loumara that lurk in the corners of their minds. Over time, some of the occupying spirits became more benevolent (or at least less evil), and helped to unlock latent psychic potential in their hosts. Don't have a proper name for them, but so far it's going to be something like the Possessed or the Vexed or the Haunted.

Pazuzu: Lording over the skies, Pazuzu chose the tengu as his favored race (basically a refluffed raptoran). They occupy the treetops and high canyons, choosing their perches and nests where others cannot go. Their cities are spirals of bizarre architecture, designed for flying creatures primarily and silencing the ground walkers below.

Sess'Innek: The Lizard King was fortunate that Demogorgon decided on the goblins, as it meant that he would let the lizardfolk go unclaimed. Occupying the fetid swamps, marshes, and jungles of the world, the lizardfolk build grand temples dedicated to their scaly gods. Though they are removed from society, they are contemplative and peaceful rather than savage or barbaric.

Yeenoghu: It goes without saying that Yeenoghu's chosen are the gnolls. Fierce and feral, they are nonetheless not quite so bloodthirsty now that Yeenoghu does not command them himself. They have settled down as nomadic pack runners across great savannas, occasionally integrating themselves into more polite society.

Zuggtmoy: The Lady of Fungus' chosen, like her, are more comfortable with the dank, warm, dark places than above ground in the sun. The Myconids toil deep within caves and underground labyrinths, rarely venturing out in to the light of day. They are a slow and ponderous people, but possessed of great resilience and strength.

Strong archetypes: Beastmen, gnoll, thri-kreen, bugbear

Quick archetypes: Goblin, hobgoblin, tengu

Hardy archetypes: Myconid, frost dwarf, warforged

Intelligent archetypes: Tiefling, gnome, blue

Wise archetypes: Lizardfolk, kuo-toa, possessed

Charismatic archetypes: Changeling, graveborn, aasimar

Thoughts? Suggestions? Too many? Too diverse? Not diverse enough? I want to make race really matter, but I want to balance them out. Things like warforged/myconid resistances will factor prominently, and each one will have some kind of unique racial ability beyond statistical modifiers. Most of them occupy unique ecological niches, and there's not so many (okay, there's a lot, but still) that they'll be overwhelming to my players. We've got bird people, two different kinds of beast people, bug people, fish people, fungus people, and robots!

[Demons_eye]

I always thought the idea of troll-like people (like WC3) would be a cool race.

[Dexam]

If you're not too opposed to psionic races, maybe Dromites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/dromite.htm) as on off-shoot of the Thri-Kreen? I envision them as a scavenger-like people, existing on the fringes of the thri-kreen deserts and other lands. Occasionally used by the thri-kreen as slaves or battle-fodder, some dromites rise to the position of thri-kreen ambassadors/emissaries/intermediatories of the other races as they find the dromite mindset slightly less alien than that of the thri-kreen.

A further suggestion: barbaric tribes of Bullywugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullywug) contesting the peaceful, contemplative existance of the lizardfolk.

[Apropos]

A little bit too many races in my opinion (I generally try to keep things simple) but I guess it could be cool. This many races will definitely get people like me (who almost always make humans) to take my time choosing a race. This could be bad or good, depending on how long it usually takes for your group to make a character, and it could also be a source for grief when you try to flesh out all of the races further.

[Gnorman]

I always thought the idea of troll-like people (like WC3) would be a cool race.

I've basically already got the Forsaken, Tauren, Gnomes, Dwarves, Goblins, Gnolls, and Murlocs. Any more than that and I'll probably be leaning too heavily towards Warcraft. Lizardfolk kind of occupy the same design space, the shamanistic jungle-dwellers.


If you're not too opposed to psionic races, maybe Dromites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/dromite.htm) as on off-shoot of the Thri-Kreen? I envision them as a scavenger-like people, existing on the fringes of the thri-kreen deserts and other lands. Occasionally used by the thri-kreen as slaves or battle-fodder, some dromites rise to the position of thri-kreen ambassadors/emissaries/intermediatories of the other races as they find the dromite mindset slightly less alien than that of the thri-kreen.

A further suggestion: barbaric tribes of Bullywugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullywug) contesting the peaceful, contemplative existance of the lizardfolk.

I like both of these suggestions and may steal them immediately.


A little bit too many races in my opinion (I generally try to keep things simple) but I guess it could be cool. This many races will definitely get people like me (who almost always make humans) to take my time choosing a race. This could be bad or good, depending on how long it usually takes for your group to make a character, and it could also be a source for grief when you try to flesh out all of the races further.

Eh, I'm a very detailed campaign-planner, so it's likely that all will get fleshed out in one way or another. I'm worried that beastmen and gnolls occupy the same design space (savage warriors), as well as myconids and frost dwarves (underground resilient-types). Beastmen and gnolls being my primary concern, as dwarves and myconids are different enough in mindset that they probably won't overlap too much.

[Altima]

Why stop at aasimar and tieflings? There's a plethora of plaintouched races out there.

Also, I recommend that when you're building the cultures that you focus on the 'alieness' aspect of the particular races. You can borrow aspects from ancient civilizations, but it would be kind of silly to go to such lengths to include only exotic races only for your players to simply describe them as 'ancient china with short, green people'.

[Gnorman]

Why stop at aasimar and tieflings? There's a plethora of plaintouched races out there.

Also, I recommend that when you're building the cultures that you focus on the 'alieness' aspect of the particular races. You can borrow aspects from ancient civilizations, but it would be kind of silly to go to such lengths to include only exotic races only for your players to simply describe them as 'ancient china with short, green people'.

I will also be including genasi, as a nod to the churning elemental nature of the Abyss. But the other planetouched make less sense to me.

Culture is going to be the fun part... but I don't want to make them too alien, so that players can still identify with them.

Except myconids. Juffo-Wup is the hot light in the darkness.

[the humanity]

I liked the invasion plan better. I just can't really picture the demons, a very destructive group of fiends, getting together to make a world. maybe the devils would be a better choice? the world could be part of the schemes of Asmodeus to get more souls...

[Kol Korran]

i came to this post a bit late, but an it's an interesting idea.

though race is an importent subject, i found out that civilizations might imprint themselves on the minds of the players even more. as a general suggestion- try and plane your races with their place in civilizations- who fights who, who works with who, who trades with who, what makes each civilization unique- what did it bring to the world, what it burrowed from others, and all that sort of jazz.

since you have the demon lords initiating the whole mess, make prominenet influences of them known/ shown through out the world and races traditions and history. by the way, i think that in your world myth it would be cool to portray the demon lords inaccuratly or incompletly, as to leave the players guessing at who the "gods" are.

as to the races themselves. i think some may be redundent at some point, or would be mostly a DM used race. i don't see many players playing myconids or kuo toa, unless they either wish to challange themselves, or are into bizzare roleplay... i do hope your races will see as much use as possible. the world so far feels to me like a "border lands" world, wild-west kind of world, and it's interestings. a few more concrete thought about the races:
Tieflings: if i understood correctly, they are the main race. think of a way for them to be prominenet amongst the other races. i also suggest you try and make a few variations to the race to show influences from different fiendish heritages. the same goes for the Aasimar, but since they were specifically chosen and are not so prolifirating, it's less of a concern. you need to think of a way (again civilization) of making the tiefling more than just "shady horned and tailed humans" of the campaign.

a suggestion if i may? have them face when they grow up a battle between their "real selves" and their "fiendish murderous call". this becomes stronger as the tiefling grows until somewhere in his late teens/ early twenties he goes into a period of half madness, trying to control the voices within. tiefling society may be aware of this and send their people to a guarded care house or out to a designted place in the wilderness. if the tiefling succeeds in contrloing himself, then he's allowed back into society, though the voices never leave completly, and in times of stress the tiefling may fall to their influence again. if the tielfing fails however, s/he is hunted down like the foul creature it has become. some of course escape their captors, and some are "enlightened" by the dark spirit within them, enough to the point of fooling others everything is ok.

i think that if you keep that element of a "evil spirit" within it could make the race more interesting, more unique. you could even make special mechanics for it. think of how this would affect tiefling society- it might explains why they are so succesfull- they have learned to master themselves young, and continue to do so daily. it might also explain why other races both trust, and fear them.

Gnolls and beastmen: i understand your worry about them filling the same place, but again i think that the solution should come mostly in their culture (and you can make mechanical rules for that as well). just as a simple example, the gnolls might be highly tirbal and sociable, learning to fight and respond to the cues and actions of their hunting party. his is ingrained into the instinct level. a gnoll would always look for his place in the pack, and gauge others by their actions and emotions and the stance they take. a gnoll leanrs to specialize, to become a certain tool (or paw, or tooth, eye or nose) for his pack. mechanically you can give the gnoll various "team related" boosts, as well as instinctual boosts (he can gain and give more from the "aid another" action for example, or even gain bonuses from just having party members present. you can make specific gnoll feats that allow him to increase his prowess when allies are close by, and so on)

Beastmen o the other hand could be mostly solitary creatures. each person's strangth is measured sepratly, by what it's done, and what enemies he vanquished and so on. self reliance is a big thing, so endurance, impressive fighting skill, and dabbling a bit in different skills all over can be importent. social interactions with other beastmen might be either relief periods from a mostly lonely life, or they could be full of tension, gauging each other. mechnically this is easier to build for than the gnoll, as D&D is better suited for this. just general "me strong! me crush!" type of things are good.

again, this is all very simplistic and quite shallow, but you get my idea, i hope you can work with it. i just realised this may turn into a long post. i tend to do that, hopefully you'll bear with me.

gnomes: i personally really like the Eberron gnomes of Zilargo. what you've breifly described sounds a big deal like them, only more decadence. i love it that they are the inventors of the warforged, quite befitting! i suggest that the gnomes might have some way to control the warforged from revolting? (a control componenet, a special spell, or the like) you'd really need to decide the layers of interactions between gnome and warforged. lots of possibility here. do they have earlier attempts (other golems and the like) running about?

frost dwarves: i barely know this race, never seen it in play, so i don't have much to say. but you have to do something with them to avoid the players thinking they are just dwarves wit hcold resistence. something about them must be weird. maybe have them something like half ice genasi? (water genasi with ice powers). you'll still have to seperate them father in your players mind than dwarves. i'd think of dropping the rave alltogether, it doesn't feel like it fits in this campaign.

possesed/ vexed/ haunted: you need to explain better what you're aiming at here. just a psionic wise race? a few ideas: Kalashtar/ Elan made different, or maybe a new fangled version of the mongrelmen- a hybrid of all this world races, gaining much in endurance and wisdom from the combination, but is highly mistrusted (and perhaps despised) by all the races (maybe not the changlings?). may travel the world like gypsies, making a life at the outskirts of society, by giving wise suggestions, divinations, and powerfull psionic assistance if needed.

lizardfolk: again, i like the change from their usually role. good job.you need to build on that of course, but it's a fine start.

myconids: Juffo-Wup runs deep indeed. laughed when i saw that. ages since i played the game..

so, at the end of my long post i'll just say that i think you're off to a good start, but i think that most ideas need more "meat" to them. in my sig there's a link. youcan scroll down to the troglodytes for example, and see what can be done. it is not my best work, but maybe it could give an idea of an outline?

i hope this helped,
Kol.

[Ormagoden]

Before replying let me ask:

What is the terrain in your world like? Ecology is generally defined by it's terrain.

Are their vast forests? Is it a world filled with rocks and sand? What is there? Help me help you.

EDIT: If you can draw me a picture of a forest or a mountain I can conjure up the creatures that crawl out of them.

[Gnorman]

Just tons of great advice

Thanks, Kol. This is really helpful. I may pare down the races from what they are now, but I am really set on keeping each demon prince involved. Just means I have to develop and separate a few races. Frost dwarves, for example, are not subterranean. They build grand glacial citadels on top of mountain peaks and are noted sculptors. They are also supreme arctic hunters, roaming across the tundra for days to find food to bring home. They have a strict Spartan society - each dwarf is evaluated for strength and work ethic, and if found lacking, executed or exiled. The harshness of their home means that any undriven, weak dwarves are simply wastes of food.

I'm toying with the idea of making them not drink beer, too. Too frivolous. Too wasteful. They may drink fermented reindeer's milk.

So they're still basically dwarves, but with the stoic nature and grimness ramped up to eleven.


Before replying let me ask:

What is the terrain in your world like? Ecology is generally defined by it's terrain.

Are their vast forests? Is it a world filled with rocks and sand? What is there? Help me help you.

EDIT: If you can draw me a picture of a forest or a mountain I can conjure up the creatures that crawl out of them.

It's a real world analogue - there's plenty of different terrain. Probably a bit more landmass and a bit more clustered than Earth, but same basic idea.

I'm kind of set for races, though - my forest race is definitely going to be beastmen (who I've decided to just rename orcs for simplicity's sake).

One of the signature things about this campaign is that race will have mechanical benefits beyond the initial choice, by adding a scaling ability. For example:

• Orc Strength: The physical stature of orcs lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever an orc is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the orc is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. An orc is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An orc can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. At 5 HD, an orc gains the reach of a Large creature. At 10 HD, an orc may choose to increase in size to Large and decrease back to Medium at will, and retains this trait (functioning as a Huge creature when transformed). At 15 HD, an orc gains the reach of a Huge creature when in Large form.