Question about the paladins(unrelated to any other I guess)

[DukeGod]

why,none of the paladins we seen so far have cast a single spell?they have used their class abilites a lot but spells seem to have been left out

[Acero]

any touch-based healing spell casted by a paladin can be confused for a Lay on Hands.

I cast virtue a lot. no effects

[Orzel]

1. Most are low level
2. OotS uses mostly core spells
3. Most of them are seen in combat
4. Most core paladin non-healing non-stat combat spells suck

[factotum]

Let's be honest here, a Paladin's most useful abilites (the ones that really make them more than a fighter without bonus feats) *are* their class abilities--Lay on Hands, Turn Undead, Detect Evil, Smite Evil, and the passive stuff like Divine Grace. Their spellcasting ability is little more than an afterthought and doesn't really add much to their capabilities.

[Optimystik]

Their spellcasting ability is little more than an afterthought and doesn't really add much to their capabilities.

I take it you don't have Spell Compendium

[derfenrirwolv]

I take it you don't have Spell Compendium

oots is mostly core remember, so no, the azure city paladins don't have spell compendium, so the assessment that their spells (like the goggles) do nothing is still accurate.

[Optimystik]

oots is mostly core remember, so no, the azure city paladins don't have spell compendium, so the assessment that their spells (like the goggles) do nothing is still accurate.

You don't know that for sure yet. Orbs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html) are in Spell Compendium.

[eggynack]

You don't know that for sure yet. Orbs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html) are in Spell Compendium.

Yeah, but that, along with most other uses of non-core stuff, is lampshaded by the characters.

[FujinAkari]

Yeah, but that, along with most other uses of non-core stuff, is lampshaded by the characters.

... while I agree with your point, I don't think that is how you use the term lampshading :P

[Optimystik]

Yeah, but that, along with most other uses of non-core stuff, is lampshaded by the characters.

Not always. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html)

[derfenrirwolv]

You don't know that for sure yet. Orbs are in Spell Compendium.

Yes, we DO know that for sure. Lightning bolt, fire ball, control weather magic missile, quickened spell empowered spell maximize spell, cure X wounds, endure elements etc are all core spells. The vast majority of oots is core material.

[Optimystik]

Yes, we DO know that for sure. Lightning bolt, fire ball, control weather magic missile, quickened spell empowered spell maximize spell, cure X wounds, endure elements etc are all core spells. The vast majority of oots is core material.

Vast majority != 100%.

The fact that core spells are used does not preclude non-core material. The mere existence one non-core spell means SpC is possible until the Giant specifically states otherwise.

[Orzel]

Even with non-core spells there are only a few good ones low level paladins would cast during a war.

[SensFan]

Vast majority != 100%.

The fact that core spells are used does not preclude non-core material. The mere existence one non-core spell means SpC is possible until the Giant specifically states otherwise.
I would say its much more accurate to say that any one character is strictly core until we've seen them cast a non-Core spell.

[Optimystik]

I would say its much more accurate to say that any one character is strictly core until we've seen them cast a non-Core spell.

It's not "more accurate" at all, since there's nothing to actually support it.

It's possibly "more reasonable," but that's it.

[SensFan]

It's not "more accurate" at all, since there's nothing to actually support it.

It's possibly "more reasonable," but that's it.
Actually, it is. The number of people who have cast non-Core spells can be counted on one hand.

[Optimystik]

Actually, it is. The number of people who have cast non-Core spells can be counted on one hand.

Which in no way proves that non-core spells are banned from OotS, or even limited solely to the people we have seen use them.

[derfenrirwolv]

Vast majority != 100%.

100% != what i said. Stop attacking a strawman.

oots is -------->mostly core <-----------

[Asta Kask]

You don't know that for sure yet. Orbs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html) are in Spell Compendium.

Yes, but that's used by an Evil character. Evil characters are known for breaking (or at least bending) the rules.

[Pyron]

You don't know that for sure yet. Orbs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html) are in Spell Compendium.

Not the ones that Tsukiko looked up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html).

[Optimystik]

Vast majority != 100%.

100% != what i said. Stop attacking a strawman.

oots is -------->mostly core <-----------

Which means absolutely nothing, because it rules out absolutely nothing.


Yes, but that's used by an Evil character. Evil characters are known for breaking (or at least bending) the rules.

...Wait, what? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html)


Not the ones that Tsukiko looked up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html).

Semantics. They are called "Orb of X" in every 3.5 source. Tome and Blood calls them "X Orb" but it is 3.0.

[hamishspence]

Miniatures Handbook is 3.5 and uses the "X Orb" format- however, it only has the minor ones.

[Pyron]

Semantics. They are called "Orb of X" in every 3.5 source.

The "Orb of X" are also Conjuration Spells. Tsukiko's spells are Evocations. That's more than semantics that's evidence right out of the comic.

Although, you might have a point with Tome and Blood. So we proof that she uses Tome and Blood (not Spell Compendium or Complete Arcane), at best.

[Asta Kask]

...Wait, what? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html)

It's all part of the conspiracy. Sorry I can't tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

[derfenrirwolv]

Which means absolutely nothing, because it rules out absolutely nothing.

What it means is that unless there is a damn good reason for a non core spell to be used, it won't be used. OOtS seems to be run by a DM thats pretty tight on allowing non core material into the game. Not an absolute ban, but very strictly monitored. As such, the paladins spells are largely useless, so they don't see a lot of action.

Also, paladins aren't in the main cast, so they have less screentime, thus less chance to cast spells, and FAR less chance to use non core (aka useful)spells.

There is also a potential legal problem with non srd spells becomming a frequent part of the comic.

[Mystic Muse]

Yes, but that's used by an Evil character. Evil characters are known for breaking (or at least bending) the rules.

"Screw the rules I have money!" (If anybody doesn't know where this is from watch yugioh the abridged series.)

[Optimystik]

What it means is that unless there is a damn good reason for a non core spell to be used, it won't be used.

[citation needed]


There is also a potential legal problem with non srd spells becomming a frequent part of the comic.

[citation needed]

And again, I'm not saying that paladins have access to SpC or even that they cast spells in OotS. Just that both are possible.

[DukeGod]

oh great...I started a Flame War...
aniway aren't the "X Orb"and "Orb of X" the same spells,she might have used the Tome and Blood it is still Non-Core...that may mean the paladins got their own "Complete X" or "X and Y" book

[Optimystik]

oh great...I started a Flame War...
aniway aren't the "X Orb"and "Orb of X" the same spells,she might have used the Tome and Blood it is still Non-Core...that may mean the paladins got their own "Complete X" or "X and Y" book

They are indeed the same.

[hamishspence]

non-core material gets lampshaded, mostly, but its used quite a few times.

As to the orb spells, they evolved a bit:

Tome & Blood Lesser Acid Orb: Evocation
Miniatures Handbook Lesser Acid Orb: Conjuration
Complete Arcane Lesser Orb of Acid: Conjuration

So- first they changed schools, then, they changed names.

[Kish]

Ninjad by hamishspence to point out the school difference, which suggests Tsukiko got her Orb spells from Tome and Blood, since she called them "evocations."

[Orzel]

A zure paladins were mostly low level and had few spell slots. 75% of total paladin spells suck and even more if you were only core. Most of the passable ones were buffs which rarely see screentime or had too horrible of a duration to use in a day long war. Other good ones were situational or wandbait. Lots of them were noncombat. Plus most of the exotic paladins were out of town.

Let's name the good, low level, war worthy, paladin spells with decent durations that work on hobgoblins?...
umm..

[Snake-Aes]

Are you guys really gonna argue about the fact that "paladins might cast noncore spells, but weren't seen doing so yet" against "paladins weren't seen casting noncore spells, but they exist"? Really, everyone seems to be disagreeing and putting up their own version of the same damn thing.


OOTS does not preclude noncore spells. There are noncore spells for paladins. We never saw them being cast. There's nothing past this to be infered.

[Optimystik]

Ninjad by hamishspence to point out the school difference, which suggests Tsukiko got her Orb spells from Tome and Blood, since she called them "evocations."

I did mention that earlier - and I hope she was wrong about that, because Tome and Blood is 3.0.


OOTS does not preclude noncore spells. There are noncore spells for paladins. We never saw them being cast. There's nothing past this to be infered.

For that matter, we've never actually seen a paladin cast even core spells in the comic. Is there a bonus strip where they do so?

[Snake-Aes]

I don't think so. They don't happen in OotPCs nor in SoD.

[Optimystik]

I have those books - but not W&XPs or DStP, yet. So I may have missed something.

[Snake-Aes]

Miko healed herself quite a few times when she was being chased by belkar, were one of them a Cure Wounds spell?

[DukeGod]

she didn't exactly said "Cure Something Wounds" so I guess not,while on the other hand they don't say "Lay on Hands" when they use it

[Optimystik]

she didn't exactly said "Cure Something Wounds" so I guess not,while on the other hand they don't say "Lay on Hands" when they use it

Sometimes they do (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html) :smallsmile:


Miko healed herself quite a few times when she was being chased by belkar, were one of them a Cure Wounds spell?

It's possible, but they can also spread out their LoH healing across several uses.

[Setra]

Isn't Mark of Justice a Paladin Spell?

[Snake-Aes]

Cleric too.

[Optimystik]

I doubt the paladins were involved with the MoJ, because Roy said they would "go nuts" if they found out about it. Ergo, it must have been applied by a cleric.

[Setra]

Cleric too.
Ah, didn't know it was Cleric as well.

[Orzel]

Still only a few decent low level paladin combat spells

[derfenrirwolv]

I doubt the paladins were involved with the MoJ, because Roy said they would "go nuts" if they found out about it. Ergo, it must have been applied by a cleric.

DSTP spoilers



The blind cleric is the one who put it on him.