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Kelb_Panthera
2010-02-09, 02:45 AM
So I'm gonna put my players through a low-magic campaign as soon as I we can start getting together regularly again. Before then I wanted to collect some thoughts on my plan. It's pretty simple really. There are only two spell-casting base classes: the adept and the mage-wright (ECS pg 256.) Rangers and paladins are okay, but they have to be non-spell-casting variants, and Bards are prestige bards only. If a magic item's construction requirements aren't on the adept, mage-wright, or bard spell list; it doesn't exist. It's otherwise a reasonably normal campaign. Now that I have it typed out, I guess it's more of a mid-magic campaign. Anyway, thoughts? Questions? Suggestions?

Edit: I almost forgot, no PrC's with their own spell progression. +1 to existing class only.

Edit 2: Allowing a multiclass Paladin/adept to enter Prestige Paladin seems like a good idea too, after some thought. So I guess that's only items with prerequisites from the adept, mage-wright, bard, and paladin spell-lists.

Farlion
2010-02-09, 03:16 AM
First thing you have to take into account is, that you can screw all the challenge ratings and monster suggestions in the book. Without magical gear, the powerlevel of your group will lag far behind.

Second thing you have to take into account is, to not bring monster immune to non-magical weapons, if your party does not have any.

Third thing, I would suggest you make it possible to make +1 or +2 weapons solely by beeing a really good blacksmith. The weapons would be non-magical.

Cheers,
Farlion

Kelb_Panthera
2010-02-09, 03:26 AM
First thing you have to take into account is, that you can screw all the challenge ratings and monster suggestions in the book. Without magical gear, the powerlevel of your group will lag far behind.

Second thing you have to take into account is, to not bring monster immune to non-magical weapons, if your party does not have any.

Third thing, I would suggest you make it possible to make +1 or +2 weapons solely by beeing a really good blacksmith. The weapons would be non-magical.

Cheers,
Farlion

Why wouldn't my players have basic magical gear? Armor, weapons, and cloaks of resistance only have CL requirements. The idea was to curb some of the absolute craziness that comes with full casters, not remove magic altogether.

Splendor
2010-02-09, 04:46 AM
PC's will be fine. I usually play in a low magic game and we manage to live perfectly fine by playing smart.

Make sure you research all alchemical item, crystal keep has alot but there are a couple in some of the forgotten realms books (like 3.5 alchemical salve).

oxinabox
2010-02-09, 06:18 AM
In my low magic campaign the most amazing thing the PC's saw was a Cursaide healing a wounded ally by taking a disbaled enemy then using an manouver on it.
The PC's were stunned!
and for awhile thought he was mage of the higherst order.

Then they met the one magic that was in the world
the binder.

Rasman
2010-02-09, 06:28 AM
In my low magic campaign the most amazing thing the PC's saw was a Cursaide healing a wounded ally by taking a disbaled enemy then using an manouver on it.
The PC's were stunned!
and for awhile thought he was mage of the higherst order.

Then they met the one magic that was in the world
the binder.

do...you mean a Crusader using a Maneauver?

I've never really played in a low magic campaign, so I don't really know what to tell you other than to consider the fact that BECAUSE it's low magic doesn't mean you can't give your PCs cool things since you just sometimes need that "magic" touch in order to get around something, or through it as the case may be.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-02-09, 07:40 AM
Low-magic might be overstating what I'm going to be doing here. Spell-casting is severely limited in that no spell-caster in the world has higher than 5th level spells. The PC's can play spell-casters, they're just extremely limited in their choice of spell-casting classes they can even enter spell-caster PrC's provided that they can make the prerequisites. One of the biggest hiccups I'm seeing is that I'm making resurrection difficult since it will require a 16th level adept just for raise dead. That and I appear to be making the bard the most powerful arcanist around.

Somebloke
2010-02-09, 08:28 AM
I might look at giving the adept/magewright some other class abilities to make up for their spellcasting fail, so that the classes don't lag behind.

Kiero
2010-02-09, 09:22 AM
Why not just attach the magic weapon/armour/saves bonuses to the character, rather than item? So any weapon they pick up is "magical" for the purposes of mechanical bonuses and such.

Works in 4e pretty well, surely it would in 3.x as well if you want to get away from the Christmas tree effect.

Kaiyanwang
2010-02-09, 09:40 AM
Just a question: what version of non-spellcasting variant of Paladins and Rangers are you using?

The ones in Complete Warrior or the ones in Complete Champion?

RagnaroksChosen
2010-02-09, 09:50 AM
I play low magic games all the time...
both low magic in the sense of zero casters and like little to no magic items

both work fine. just remember a challanging encounter is going to be cr -1-3. fighting things the same cr or higher is going to kill a character at higher levels unless you pull punches...

Had a group of level 12 that would struggle with cr 11 monsters because they had mabye 1-3 magic items.

on the other hand my level 4 group with no magic users and no magic items easily takes out cr 5-6's

So what i guess im saying is just learn your players and make sure they always have an exit. You should be fine...

I belive adepts get magic weapon as well...


I highly recomend though if your playing a low caster game is to not allow TOme of battle or tome of magic. It will throw off the balance.

faceroll
2010-02-09, 04:27 PM
Why not just attach the magic weapon/armour/saves bonuses to the character, rather than item? So any weapon they pick up is "magical" for the purposes of mechanical bonuses and such.

Works in 4e pretty well, surely it would in 3.x as well if you want to get away from the Christmas tree effect.

That's not what he's trying to get rid of, though. The equipment that gives static bonuses to stats is all easy for adepts & magewrights to make, since the spells are either on their spell list, or only require a feat and a high enough CL.

Ozymandias9
2010-02-10, 12:21 AM
I find that even in such campaigns, it is generally useful to have ways to cobble together more powerful magical effects. They merely shouldn't be easily available.

I would recommend taking a look at the power component variant in the DMG (pg 36) and at least one of the skill based spell casting options {Incantations from UA, Epic Casting, or the group casting (city casting? whatever) from Cityscape}.

None of them may fit perfectly, but you'll have a general starting point for the availability of more powerful magical effects.

Additionally, you may want to look over the wizard and cleric spell lists and cherry pick some spells to add to one of your caster's lists based on the nature of the challenges you plan on presenting. Hallow, Flame Strike, Dream, etc. are unlikely to break a game when you have access to 5th level spells.

They might also warrant some measure of the wizard's bonus feats in exchange for their more limited spell selection.

Crow
2010-02-10, 12:30 AM
I am going to post up my expanded weaponry and armor quality rules. Here they are;

Weapons
Inferior : -1 to hit and -1 damage
Normal : (normal)
Fine : +1 to hit
Superior : +1 to hit and +1 to damage
Masterwork : +2 to hit and +1 to damage

Optional rule for Inferior weapons : Breaks on an attack roll of "1". So a 5% chance.

Optional rule for all weapons : If a blade is commissioned as a custom piece (rather than picked up from a treasure hoard or something), it gets an additional +1 to hit (on top of all other bonuses). This is because the piece can be specifically sized and balanced for the intended wielder. This bonus only applies to the intended wielder, but can apply to another person if they are of close to the same height/build as the original owner.

The damage bonuses are small because it is hard to make a weapon actually do more damage (that is up to the wielder). It is possible however to make a weapon easier to use, which is why the highest grade gets the +2 to hit.

Crafting modifiers (add to base DC for weapon):

Inferior : -3
Normal : +0
Fine : +4
Superior : +8
Masterwork : +12

Costs:

Inferior : -50%
Normal : (normal)
Fine : +300gp
Superior : +1000gp
Masterwork : +2000gp

Armor
Inferior : -1 AC
Normal : (normal)
Fine : -1 armor check penalty
Superior : +1 AC and -1 armor check penalty
Masterwork : +2 AC and -1 armor check penalty

Optional rule for all armor : If a suit of armor is commissioned as a custom piece (rather than picked up from a treasure hoard or something), it gets an additional -1 armor check penalty (on top of all other bonuses). This bonus only applies to the intended wearer, but can apply to another person if they are of close to the same height/build as the original owner.

Crafting modifiers (add to base DC for armor):

Inferior : -3
Normal : +0
Fine : +4
Superior : +8
Masterwork : +12

Costs:

Inferior : -50%
Normal : (normal)
Fine : +150gp
Superior : +1000gp
Masterwork : +2000gp

Shademan
2010-02-10, 03:56 AM
just play E6 ;P
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=352719

Kelb_Panthera
2010-02-10, 05:41 AM
Just a question: what version of non-spellcasting variant of Paladins and Rangers are you using?

The ones in Complete Warrior or the ones in Complete Champion?

Player's choice.

Tome of battle base classes are disallowed, but the rest of the book is okay. Tome of magic, the shadowcaster is right out, but binder isn't full-caster powerful, and most people seem to agree that Truenamer sucks to hard to worry about. I personally like truenamers, but I can see where the affects they can manage are soft enough to allow in the kind of campaign I'm looking at making. Magic of Incarnum is A-okay since it's nothing like traditional magic. Of Psionics, manifesting classes are disallowed, but psionic races and feats are okay, as is the soulknife.