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View Full Version : Need Caster Class Build for The Wolrd's Largest Dungeon



jaggedblade421
2010-02-10, 05:29 AM
I'm joining a campaign for the worlds largest dungeon and would like to play a caster class! I have never played a Caster other than druid/ranger so I want some input on build, spell selection and feats!

There are some special rules with this TWLD run here they are:

1) Druids are banned, they have no place within WLD. Also no psionicist

2) Summoning spells are banned, as the dungeon is surrounded by a powerful shield, not allowing teleportation in or out. This also means no planeshifting or anything like that. Basically if it would let you leave the dungeon without finding the exit, no dice.

3) Restrictions are placed on spells like Web. They are extremely powerful in a dungeon setting, the monsters won't have them, so you really shouldn't either. Spells of this type will be allowed or banned on a case-by-case basis.

4) Bardic Knowledge is useless, no one knows anything about this place...you guys Wished it into existence!

5) Wizards are usually at a disadvantage, seeing as they really don't have anywhere to learn new spells from. But the way I've constructed the backstory you're merely "remembering" the spells you used to know when you've regained enough power to use them. There will also be scrolls in places that you can scribe into your spellbook.

Note this also works for learning feats/skills and the like that would be kind of hard when you're stuck in a dungeon.

6) Food and water will not need to be tracked, the dungeon is life sustaining (can't tell you why, that's a spoiler ) but torches will need to be tracked! Everything is pitch black in the first few areas, and stumbling around in the dark will get you killed.

Also just in case your not in the know on TWLD it will take us from lvl1-20 and we will encounter every monster in the Manuel plus some extras including the Tarasque! So I need a Good build!

ALL books are a go I was thinking either a: Wizard, generalist wizardry, OR Warmage

But Will take tips on any caster build you think would be good for this campaign
Thanks in advance

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-10, 06:20 AM
Focused Specialist transmuter wizard. Take Colegiate (SP? the feat that doubles your spells known from comp. Arcane) Wizard to offset the lack of scrolls.

Use the wizard variant that swaps your wiz. bonus feats for fighter and drop Scribe scroll for Imp. init. Scribe scroll is just dead weight. Avoid item creation feats.

Make the DM give you a better list of what spells aren't allowed "spells like web" is a poor description. Also, your not going to have firebreath, so will the dragons be loosing that? (and now that I think about it, giant spiders will have web. lost of them.)

Be prepared to loose the spell Rope trick. Bring a hammer and (adamantine)spikes to nail shut doors so you can rest. Bring shapesand (from Sand Storm) to quickly replace any damaged gear or items you forgot to bring along.

Protect your spellbook at all costs! Spend the extra cash to get an all metal one (Comp. Arcane) and get blueshine put on it (Dungeonscape). Better yet, when you level up tattoo your most important spells directly onto your skin.

Bring along a warforged, or other character that needs no sleep. The more eyes on guard, the better.

Use the resources provided. If the DM puts a mithral lock in they way, Fabricate it into something useful. Baddies had junk weapons? grab a few in case of a rust monster or you need to poke something dangerous.

Be very mindful of expensive spell components. Forcecage is a nice spell, but if you can't get the rubies....

A warmage can be fun, but keep in mind that later on, more things will be immune to elements, have SR and mountains of HP.

Zergrusheddie
2010-02-10, 06:39 AM
Beguilers are great. They get some of the better buffs like Haste, get some of the nastiest Saves or Lose spells (Slow, Glitterdust, Confusion), are amazing skill monkeys, and are really fun to play. However if the group already has a skill monkey, there is no real point to bringing in a Beguiler. They have a limited number of spells known but they cast them like a Sorcerer so you never really have to prepare ahead of time and you usually have a spell that can help in in a given situation. Beguilers are at an advantage if learning Skills and Feats is going to be a problem because you can say that you are better at Searching or Disabling Devices because you have had so much training in the field and you have gotten better at casting Illusion Spells so they are harder to resist (Spell Focus). Do note that Beguilers are not blasters.

Wizard 20 with Item Creation feats would be great. If the party is going to be unable to find a local Magic Mart, you would be extremely useful. Throwing in things like Incantrix or Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (an awesome, awesome PrC) could add a huge amount to your abilities. If Rope Trick is allowed, you will provide the team with a safe place to rest.

Sorcerer would be good for the same reasons as a Wizard but it would mean that you could choose from a larger array of spells rather than just being limited to the few you gain each level and hoping you find something useful. Mage of the Arcane Order is probably the best PrC for Sorcerers because it lets them cast spells they did not choose but it might be a problem as you have to pay the Guild 750 gold to get in and 30 gold a month. Considering you are essentially trapped in purgatory, it might be hard to convince the DM to it but you could always say that you have contacted the order beforehand and have already bought yourself into it. Or you could promise the Guild to make up "back taxes" after you escape.

What exactly do you mean by "Restrictions are placed on spells like Web"? Do you mean that Web is restricted or all Battlefield Control/ Save or Sucks spells? If everything is restricted, than playing a Beguiler is probably better because they are going to be useful all the time. More information like stat generation, will spell components be available, and what everyone else intends to play would also be useful.

Best of luck.
-Eddie

Sophismata
2010-02-10, 08:15 AM
Make the DM give you a better list of what spells aren't allowed "spells like web" is a poor description. Also, your not going to have firebreath, so will the dragons be loosing that? (and now that I think about it, giant spiders will have web. lost of them.)

That's been pulled directly from the WLD book, which cites the spells entangle and web as "too powerful in a dungeon setting" and suggest banning them along with similar effects. It also suggests disallowing druids, on account of them being too weak (!) in a dungeon setting, so YMMV.

WLD, despite its warnings, actually does have enemy spellbooks available (at least, early on), and provides areas for crafting (but you won't really get time). You get WBL in a very lopsided manner, the earlier suggestion of ditching craft feats and going martial wizard is a good one.

I firmly recommend finding a way to identify items quickly and/or cheaply, because you will not be able to buy most (all?) expensive spell components, barring fiat.

Generalist Elves (substitution levels) get 3 new spells per level instead of 2.

Eldariel
2010-02-10, 08:22 AM
The Druid-ban is a source of infinite hilarity. Even if you remove animal companions after the initial one, and summoning, they're still amazing. But yeah, no need to dwell on that; had Wizards known how good Druids are, they wouldn't have printed them as-is in the PHB.

I'd probably go Conjurer (as long as a sufficient number of Dust/Fog-type spells are allowed, it'll be fine) with Abrupt Jaunt and Fiery Burst. Use Fiery Burst as a "Crossbow" especially early on with your spells acting as heavy artillery and Abrupt Jaunt allowing you to avoid damage, working great on an endurance rally like WLD.

Gnaeus
2010-02-10, 08:50 AM
What else is in your party? Do you know yet?

JediSoth
2010-02-10, 08:59 AM
Speaking as someone who DMed WLD, I can speak from experience saying that a Warmage with orb spells totally owns most of the really bad monsters.

Of course, this is because WLD, as written, is a 3.0 dungeon and the Warmage is 3.5.

If you have no willpower:
You will grow SICK of darkmantles before you leave the first area of the dungeon.

qcbtnsrm
2010-02-10, 09:16 AM
I ran through it once as a player. And there are a couple of things you should consider. Simply forget any spell with a material component more than 1gp. The odds are not good. In fact forget about finding anything you don't bring with you. While in theory wealth by level is achievable, it is very spotty in execution.

When we ran through, our paladin was still wearing his original scale mail at level 10. And our bard was using a +2 dagger of dragon slaying, which was the best magical weapon we had found. We just never turned in the directions where we would have run across the good stuff. We were plenty aggressive in looting as thoroughly as we could, as anyone who knows where that dagger was hidden can attest. In fact my Vow of Poverty Monk became relatively high powered, as by level 16 I was still the only one in the party with attribute boosts.

If I were doing it again, as a caster, I would play a Sorcerer with Eschew Materials. That way there is nothing to lose or break. With a regular wizard, a single sunder on your spell book or component bag, and you are a commoner for the rest of the campaign.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-10, 09:42 AM
Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Wizard +1/ Archmage or whatever 4
There are two ways you can do this:

Ideal: Illumian (Krau and anything), two flaws, Able Learner, Versatile Spellcaster, any metamagic feat, and Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler prior to 6th level, specialized in Conjuration with Abrupt Jaunt if you can use it (a teleportation effect). Versatile Spellcaster can be used to spend Beguiler spell slots to cast any Wizard spell you know, which also grants you knowledge of the next higher level of Beguiler spells. Able Learner is unbelievably amazing in this build, luckily Illumians are Humanoid (Human) and can take it. Your power sigils shed light so you never have to be stuck in the dark, if you can't take one of the ideal feats get Bright Sigil instead it looks like it would be useful. This build gets 10/10 UM spellcasting toward Wizard, so at level 15 you'll have 14th level Wizard spellcasting and 8th level Beguiler spellcasting. At your 5th Wizard level get the Domain Power ACF from CC, I'd probably pick the Baator domain if possible, or the Travel domain if it can be switched for Travel Devotion, otherwise the Luck domain, or if Versatile Spellcaster gets houseruled get Spontaneous Divination from CC instead.

Second Choice: Grey Elf, two flaws, Elf Wizard 1 generalist substitution level, Collegiate Wizard if you're willing to miss out on the Beguiler skill points x4, one or two flaws, Versatile Spellcaster, any metamagic feat, and Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler prior to 6th level. Most of the same tricks, but this one gains five new wizard spells at every level instead of the standard two. This one gets 9/10 UM spellcasting toward Wizard, with only the 7th going toward Beguiler instead. Most of the same stuff applies, though this a little stronger as a spellcaster but makes for a weaker skillmonkey.

Third Choice: Whisper Gnome, Illusionist 3/ Master Specialist 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter 8. Standard Killer Gnome build, I use all of the UA Illusionist variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants), Signature Spell: Silent Image, Earth Spell, Ability Focus: Silent Image, Residual Magic, Metamagic School Focus, Enhanced Shadow Reality, and wear sandals made from stone slabs so Earth Spell always works. Collegiate Wizard would be good for this one too, so you'd actually get six new spells at every level considering Illusion Mastery.

Cheese Build 1: Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Kobold Loredrake, Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 20*, with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). Spellhoarding is from Dragon 313, it replaces your Sorcerer spellcasting with Wizard spellcasting of equal level, you write your spells on your scales instead of in a spellbook (a 'spellhoard'), can expend a spell from its spellhoard to cast it as though from a scroll X times/day, and can expend a spell from its spellhoard as a substitute for XP costs and costly material components for a spell. There's no limit to how many times the same spell can be scribed onto the character's body, so given enough time your spellhoard could become infinite. Stalwart Sorcerer and Battle Sorcerer decrease your Sorcerer spellcasting ability, which is then replaced by Wizard spellcasting of equal level so you lose nothing. The build itself could just be any Sorcerer build you want, possibly go Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Swiftblade 9/ Dragonslayer 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Spellsword 1, or even something like Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 5/ Incantatrix 10/ Archmage 5. This build is extremely cheesy and should be used with discretion.

Cheese Build 2: Arcane Swordsage 20, probably Whisper Gnome, get mostly buffs and even Cure spells from the Bard list as maneuvers known. Any buffs with a minute/level or longer duration can be kept continually active after a few levels, and non-personal range buffs can be continually active on the entire party. Once you hit 3rd level you can get Heroics as a maneuver, which can temporarily grant Martial Study to learn another buffing spell, which you then activate and dismiss Heroics only to initiate it again for a different buff, though I'd only use this with hour/level or maybe 10 min/level or longer durations. The Heart Of- line of spells from CM and Dragonsight are superb with this, and also be sure to learn Greater Mage Hand. The Shadow Hand teleportation maneuvers should still work in WLD, and I'd probably stay in the Hearing the Air stance most of the time once you can get it. I'd go TWF and use Shadow Blade and definitely take Darkstalker.

JeminiZero
2010-02-10, 10:02 AM
Maybe a Cleric. You can cast Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment and the like, making finding magic gear slightly less important. But find a way toreplace you holy symbol, since the Summon Holy Symbol spell doesn't work there. Being able to carve one yourself would certainly help.

Overshee
2010-02-10, 10:08 AM
Either that or say "I know druids aren't powerful enough, but I love them for flavor. I promise not to drag the party down!"

Thrawn183
2010-02-10, 10:57 AM
Is there much onyx just laying around? If not, I'd say sorceror or warmage.

potatocubed
2010-02-10, 11:07 AM
Be as self-sufficient as possible. The sorcerer with eschew materials is a good choice, and take mending as a cantrip.

Play a race with darkvision, too. No torch-tracking for you!

Amphetryon
2010-02-10, 11:32 AM
Warlocks are REALLY well suited to WLD.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-10, 11:45 AM
Warlocks are REALLY well suited to WLD.

QFT!

Make it a warforged Warlock and make resting a thing of the past!

Also: nice avatar. those throwing hammers?

Draz74
2010-02-10, 11:45 AM
No, not Warlock.

Dragonfire Adept!

It's the caster who never needs to rest, and who has a ton more HP than a Warlock. No Web or Entangle, but still very battlefield-control focused (with Entangling Exhalation, which is an obvious feat choice).

BRC
2010-02-10, 11:46 AM
QFT!

Make it a warforged Warlock and make resting a thing of the past!

Warforged Warlock=Mega Man.

Protecar
2010-02-10, 11:47 AM
Where's the details on this World's Largest Dungeon? I've not heard of it before.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-10, 11:48 AM
Warforged Warlock=Mega Man.

I was thinking Iron Man myself. Now if we could pick up other special rays from bosses and such. Hmm...

Cyclocone
2010-02-10, 11:48 AM
Warlock? Pfff!

Make a Wizard who casts Twinned Sanctum Mordenkainens Lubrication for infinite spells.:smallcool:

BRC
2010-02-10, 11:50 AM
I was thinking Iron Man myself. Now if we could pick up other special rays from bosses and such. Hmm...
Iron man does more punching than blasting dosn't he? But then again, he also flies, which is more a Warlock thing...

lsfreak
2010-02-10, 11:53 AM
Warlocks are REALLY well suited to WLD.

For varying levels of 'caster,' binders are as well. This is provided your DM doesn't make you search out information on the vestiges you bind; I could see giving them a new vestige every level just as wizards get spells.

Between what you wanted though, Focused Specialist Conjurer with Collegiate Wizard. If you're really worried about Conjuration, take Transmutation instead. If you're really creative and your DM is going to go with it, maybe Illusion. Ban Evo, Enchant, and either Necro or Abj (I prefer to ban Abjuration, but that only works if you've got someone else to cover dispelling duties and aren't averse to things like Enervation and Avasculate).

AstralFire
2010-02-10, 11:53 AM
Warforged Psion equals Megaman, get it right folks. (Yeah I know psionics isn't allowed in this game).

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-10, 11:54 AM
Warforged Psion equals Megaman, get it right folks. (Yeah I know psionics isn't allowed in this game).

So what would that make Iron Man?

AstralFire
2010-02-10, 12:03 PM
So what would that make Iron Man?

Gestalt Drunken Master//Psion.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-10, 12:37 PM
Warforged artificer using some of the ACFs in Races of Eberron.

Item creation is extremely powerful here, and you'll be able to keep the party on par with WBL, especially if you raid ANYTHING you find valuable, including iron candelabras, mithral sconces, and adamantine doors. MAKE time to make your items, and ensure that you make yourself a couple of homunculi (a dedicated wright and a defender) so you can leave them in a room and come back a couple of days later to collect everything (since portable holes likely won't work, though you may be able to craft one that DOES work...somehow).

Otherwise, see if you can't get some Reserve Feats on your caster build, given that it'll extend your endurance indefinitely. Flavor the elemental feats as creating them from dust or something, and you can use them to set off traps and to touch things you suspect are cursed.

JaronK
2010-02-10, 03:57 PM
As a note, unless the DM has changed things, summoning spells are not banned but rather they have a side effect. If he's doing it straight from the book, this is actually a good thing for certain classes, most notably the Dread Necromancer.

Dread Necromancers are actually quite strong in WLD in a party with Tomb Tainted Soul'd party members. Endless healing is amazingly good, and minions are awesome. However, you pretty much have to PrC out into Palemaster... Onyxs will be in short supply. If you can spell stitch yourself on the other hand, WLD will be a breeze... assuming you can manage the Necropolitan transformation successfully. Still, the fear aura combined with Imperious Command is extremely handy, the endless healing is amazing, and your little Ghostly Visage is awesome. So that's something to consider. However note that there are some advantages to being good in WLD, opportunities that won't arise for evil people. You might want to be at least nuetral.

Wizards are fine in WLD as long as you took the Collegate Wizard feat to make sure you have enough spells. Just be aware that spells with costly components will be very difficult to cast. A dwarf Wizard headed for Runesmith might be incredibly good, in fact... spell likes are SO good in this campaign.

For all of these casters, remember that the traps in WLD are brutal. Don't touch ANYTHING and let the tanks go in at least 15 feet ahead of you. You don't want a fireball aimed at one of them taking you out.

Oh, and try to get a Warforged Crusader or Warforged Binder in the party (and make sure the Binder binds that healing vestige). They're such great trap detectors!

JaronK

jaggedblade421
2010-02-10, 05:42 PM
Thanks allot guys some really good stuff in here!

qcbtnsrm
2010-02-10, 08:00 PM
Where's the details on this World's Largest Dungeon? I've not heard of it before.

It is an 800 page dungeon crawl put out by Alderac Entertainment Group
(http://www.worldslargestdungeon.com/). It supposedly has every monster in the SRD and is a complete campaign in itself. It is intended to take a party from level 1 past level 20 in a few years time.

Here (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/11/11913.phtml) is one representative review. I quite enjoyed it when I went through as a player. But in the end the poor production qualities finally wore us out, and we never made it past Section N - Tomb of the Unliving.

jaggedblade421
2010-02-12, 04:40 AM
Focused Specialist transmuter wizard. Take Colegiate (SP? the feat that doubles your spells known from comp. Arcane) Wizard to offset the lack of scrolls.

Use the wizard variant that swaps your wiz. bonus feats for fighter and drop Scribe scroll for Imp. init. Scribe scroll is just dead weight. Avoid item creation feats.

Be prepared to loose the spell Rope trick. Bring a hammer and (adamantine)spikes to nail shut doors so you can rest.



decided to go with this build after comparing all the inputs I really like the looks of the Focused Specialist transmutation wizard. I was looking up builds for that type of wizard and found this one:
_________________________


Alternate class abilities: Focused Specialist (Transmuter), Fighter feats, Domain Granted Ability (level 5)

Race: Human

Stats (32 point buy): Int 20 (16 points), Con 12 (6 points), Dex 16 (6 points), Cha 12 (4 points)

1: Transmuter 1(Spell Focus: Transmuation, Improved Initiative)
2: Transmuter 2
3: Transmuter 3 (Spell Penetration)
4: Transmuter 4
5: Trasmuter 5 (Family Domain)
6: Master Specialist 1 (Toughening Transmutation, Skill focus: Spellcraft)
7: Master Specialist 2
8: Fatespinner 1
9: Fatespinner 2 (Minor Shapeshift)
10: Fatespinner 3
11: Fatespinner 4
12: Sacred Exorcist 1 (Divine Ward Glorious Weapons)
13: Master Specialist 4 (Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation)
14: Paragnostic Apostle 1
15: Paragnostic Apostle 2 (Spell Focus: Conjuration)
16: Archmage 1
17: Archmage 2
18: Archmage 3 (Greater Spell Penetration)
19: Archmage 4
20: Archmage 5
___________________

Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus: Good for the same reasons it's good for Conjurer's. Maybe even more so.

Toughening Transmutation: This is very good at low levels - at higher levels you need another form of DR to "stack" this with. Preferably a X/- DR. Otherwise the x/magic will render it pretty useless.

Extend Spell: Lots of transmutation spells have long durations, and it's especially sweet to make long lasting spells last especially long with this Metamagic Feat. Note that Extend Spell makes the Rope Trick - trick useful a great deal earlier.

Metamagic School Focus: Pick three transmutation spells on your list and extend them for free. How about 3 hr/level spells? (Rope Trick, Greater Magic Weapon and Overland Flight come to mind immediately)

Improved Initiative: Good for the same reason it's good for the Conjurer. Maybe slightly less so.

Ability Enhancer: This is from Dragon magazine - so basically is added as a footnote - but adds +2 to any ability enhancements offered by Transmutation spells. Um - how about Animalistic Power?
_________________

1.Dose the above look like a good build for a Transmuter wizard in the WLD? or should I stick with all Transmuter Wizard levels?

2.why should I count on losing rope trick?

3.Pretty sure I'm gonna ban Enchantment Not sure on second school though... I was thinking Necro. but i read a lot of guides that say Evocation is the best ban (but I like the ideal of blasting every now and then) and lastly what about Conjuration? I know Conjuration is usually a home run but with no Teleporting or summoning and "restrictions on spells like web" Is it worth anything?

Thanks guys You have all been so helpful!

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-12, 05:37 AM
If you do indeed like to blast stuff every now and again, Look to the Orb line of spells from the conjuration school. Some of the best damage spells around.

If your DM is going to ban web then most likely he will also ban rope trick.


Just remember to keep an eye on expensive material components and to bring some shapesand.

Amphetryon
2010-02-12, 07:33 AM
Rope Trick counts, by standard interpretation, as extra-dimensional space. As such, the writer's railroading magical force-field around the WLD prevents it from functioning unless your DM ignores that bit.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-12, 12:59 PM
That's been pulled directly from the WLD book, which sites the spells entangle and web as "too powerful in a dungeon setting" and suggest banning them along with similar effects. It also suggests disallowing druids, on account of them being too weak (!) in a dungeon setting, so YMMV.

And yet, if memory serves, web is listed as one of the spells in what may be the very first spellbook you loot.

Have fun explaining that one to your players, if you want to follow the book.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-02-12, 07:06 PM
If your DM lets you sleep without interruption/battles then just do a 1 encounter work day.

Go nova every encounter. Nothing in WLD will stop such a straight Wizard player.

Warning: DMs may get very annoyed as may party members.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-12, 07:30 PM
If you REALLY want to blast, and want to stay within core, make sure to bring a few books full of paper with you. As soon as you get it, start casting explosive runes on as many of the pages as you can (front and back). Have one of your party members (or a familiar, undead, or dominated minion) throw the book at a creature, and ready an area dispel magic to blow every single rune in the book up. All at the same time.

Good luck making 600+ saving throws for 6d6 force damage apiece.

As a bonus, it'll dispel buffs and items, too.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-12, 07:53 PM
If you REALLY want to blast, and want to stay within core, make sure to bring a few books full of paper with you. As soon as you get it, start casting explosive runes on as many of the pages as you can (front and back). Have one of your party members (or a familiar, undead, or dominated minion) throw the book at a creature, and ready an area dispel magic to blow every single rune in the book up. All at the same time.

Good luck making 600+ saving throws for 6d6 force damage apiece.

As a bonus, it'll dispel buffs and items, too.

This is also a good way to pick locks, disarm traps, ace a diplomacy check, bridge a gap, gap a bridge and do laundry. :smallsmile:

Hmm... How many runes can fit on a page? Or the head of a javelin? a very, very small javelin....

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-12, 07:57 PM
This is also a good way to pick locks, disarm traps, ace a diplomacy check, bridge a gap, gap a bridge and do laundry. :smallsmile:

Hmm... How many runes can fit on a page? Or the head of a javelin? a very, very small javelin....Hell, explosive runes can be your main schtick. You can't get that adamantine door open? Scribe some runes on the hinges. Blow 'em and they're auto-destroyed (no save, no SR, no escape).

Heck, scribe them on the wall of force surrounding the place to destroy it.

Thefurmonger
2010-02-12, 08:42 PM
I had really good luck with a Beguiler in WLD. you have full casting and a lot of the Rogue stuff as well.