Breaking the Phylactery

[Math_Mage]

We know O-Chul tried to break the phylactery (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html). We know O-Chul is the Monster in the Darkness's best friend (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0654.html), and that MitD isn't exactly fond of Xykon anymore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html). And we know (if jokingly) the Monster in the Darkness is capable of breaking the phylactery (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0147.html). I feel like hints are dropping left and right that Xykon's phylactery will eventually be destroyed by the Monster in the Darkness. But then, that may just be reading too much into it. Thoughts?

[Optimystik]

I'm not convinced anything else can, short of the Snarl.

[Ancalagon]

I'm not convinced anything else can, short of the Snarl.

... or the MitD.

[Math_Mage]

... or the MitD.

Hence the "else". :smalltongue:

[Ancalagon]

Ah, yes. Missed it. Makes sense. ;)

But I also think that some mage or cleric given some time can actually remove some of the spells warding it.
There is also some plot-artefact somewhere that does a "superdestroy" or a "superdispell", just imagine how a movie or book would send some heroes-to-be to find the "tool" that helps defeating the "big evil enemy".

You can also throw it into Mount Doom or awaken the Eternal Guardian of Good or whatever your plot calls for.

So we have to say: in regard to already introduced plot-possibilities (characters, items) there are not many that could "just" break it.
As it seems right now, we don't even have a snarl anymore. So it comes down to "godly intervention" (boring) or MitD (which makes sense, given that there is still that leftover from SoD that implies that first "SPOILER" and then the breaking. That'd also be in line with the MitD's emancipation (started by O-Chul).

[derfenrirwolv]

There aren't a lot of core magical protections that can be placed on something to keep it from breaking. Since it has unspecified protections against it, it has an unspecified amount of force that would be required to break it.

Throwing it into a volcano would probably work, as would having Monstersan smash it.

[Math_Mage]

There aren't a lot of core magical protections that can be placed on something to keep it from breaking. Since it has unspecified protections against it, it has an unspecified amount of force that would be required to break it.

Throwing it into a volcano would probably work, as would having Monstersan smash it.

Well, there's a *minimal* degree of specification:
:xykon: There are so many abjuration spells protecting that thing, I've forgotten what half of them actually do.* (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html)

[TriForce]

*disjunktion* *disintegrate*

no matter what kind of protection that thing has, anything short of epic spells specifically disigned against disjuntions will be gone

[Optimystik]

... or the MitD.


Hence the "else". :smalltongue:

:smallsigh:


*disjunktion* *disintegrate*

no matter what kind of protection that thing has, anything short of epic spells specifically disigned against disjuntions will be gone

Hell, Disjunction might even stop it from being a phylactery in the first place... they are magic items.

[Ancalagon]

:smallsigh:

You're late for that. :)

[Asta Kask]

*disjunktion* *disintegrate*

no matter what kind of protection that thing has, anything short of epic spells specifically disigned against disjuntions will be gone

And of course there are no epic caster who may have an interest in protecting the phylactery... :smallsmile:

[Ancalagon]

no matter what kind of protection that thing has, anything short of epic spells specifically disigned against disjuntions will be gone

Given Redcloaks profen tendency to overthink things, I'd be surprised if the most outer spell wasn't something that makes dispelling and everything similar harder.

The only hint that this is not true would be the fact that Xykon needed to have a lot of epic spells.

We know about "superb dispelling" and I would find it unlikely if someone as Xykon had no epic necromancy of damage-spell researched. So, we'd look at three epic spells researched and that seemed quite much - too much?

[drengnikrafe]

It could have been (somehow) made into an artifact.
That would (kind of) protect it from Disjunction.

[Callista]

Even if it's an artifcat, it's still possible to spam Disjunction at it until it breaks. You just have to cast it repeatedly; probably often enough that it'd only be feasible if you got the phylactery and got yourself to a relatively safe location where Xykon, if not destroyed, wouldn't be able to teleport. The chance of angering some guardian being or other that the spell mentions? Well, angering an epic lich probably qualifies...

Other protections on the phylactery would probably kill the first few people who tried the disjunction trick, so you'll want a couple of backup mages, a cleric or two, and some diamonds.

[girtleaf]

soon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html) believes that any human could break it and Xykon seems to believe him so i don’t think it takes to much to destroy it just takes more than a metal bar

[Yendor]

soon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html) believes that any human could break it and Xykon seems to believe him so i don’t think it takes to much to destroy it just takes more than a metal bar

No, the important thing is that Soon knows it's the phylactery. Even if it can't be broken with pure smashing, he can find someone who knows how to destroy it.

[Math_Mage]

No, the important thing is that Soon knows it's the phylactery. Even if it can't be broken with pure smashing, he can find someone who knows how to destroy it.

On the other hand, the verb Soon uses is "smash".

Still not convinced that anything less than a volcano or Stomp (or volcano stomp, hehe) will take care of the phylactery.

[Optimystik]

You're late for that. :)

Never too late for a *facepalm*

(I'm posting at work, sue me :smalltongue:)


soon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html) believes that any human could break it and Xykon seems to believe him so i don’t think it takes to much to destroy it just takes more than a metal bar

Xykon was more worried because, if they know what the phylactery is, they can keep smashing him when he tries to emerge (and is unable to cast spells.)

There is of course no RAW for how a lich really reappears, but Rich seems to have gone with "reforms slowly over time from it" similar to the psionic phylactery, Astral Seed. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralSeed.htm)

[Dr.Epic]

SoD:

Xykon hypnotized the MitD should it ever have to eat Red Cloak to spit out the phylactery.

Thoughts?

[Katana_Geldar]

And about the metal bar, could there have been the possibility that O-Chul could have broken it? Sooner or later, someone rolls a 20...

[factotum]

And about the metal bar, could there have been the possibility that O-Chul could have broken it? Sooner or later, someone rolls a 20...

I don't think that would make much difference--you might get a crit with a 20, but I doubt a metal bar does much damage anyway and the phylactery presumably has damage reduction up the wazoo. I doubt O-Chul could have damaged it with an improvised weapon even before it had all those spells cast on it that Xykon mentioned.

[Belkon]

Red Dragon's Breath is usually the go to source, of most authors, for all your artifact/magic item destroying needs.

[Dr.Epic]

And about the metal bar, could there have been the possibility that O-Chul could have broken it? Sooner or later, someone rolls a 20...

A natural 20 doesn't always mean success.


Red Dragon's Breath is usually the go to source, of most authors, for all your artifact/magic item destroying needs.

Not if you're a duo of halflings with a magic ring.

[Tass]

A natural 20 doesn't always mean success.



Not if you're a duo of halflings with a magic ring.

Only because the last dragon had been destroyed. It is said that Smaugs fire might have been hot enough, had he still existed.

[Dr.Epic]

Only because the last dragon had been destroyed. It is said that Smaugs fire might have been hot enough, had he still existed.

Then what did the Nazgul ride?

[DaveMcW]

Then what did the Nazgul ride?

Pterosaurs (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Fell_beast)

[Souhiro]

Well, this comes to:

<Dath V> ¡Superb Dispell! ¡Quickened Dissintegrate! (To the soul hidey thing)
<Roy> Greenhilt Slash! (Yes, the one his grandpa taugh him)
<Haley> Sleal Xykon's Stuff
<Belkar> ¡Kill Redcloak and hit on Tsukiko!
<Elan> ¡Sing a Song!
<Durkon> ¡Do Nothing!

[Asta Kask]

I don't think that would make much difference--you might get a crit with a 20, but I doubt a metal bar does much damage anyway and the phylactery presumably has damage reduction up the wazoo.

I believe objects are immune to crits anyway.

[Athaniar]

Only because the last dragon had been destroyed. It is said that Smaugs fire might have been hot enough, had he still existed.
I thought Gandalf said that not even Ancalagon could destroy the One Ring?

[Asta Kask]

Yep, it was only the Lesser Rings of Power that could be destroyed by dragons. The only way to destroy the One Ring was to drop it into Mt. Doom. (Although I suppose the Valar could destroy it, if they chose to.)

[Athaniar]

Well, some people do suspect that the Valar were involved in the Ring's final destruction. Accident? Yeah, right.

[Asta Kask]

Indirectly, of course. They were the ones who sent the Istari, and without Gandalf the Ring would never have been destroyed. But this is getting off-topic.

[Snake-Aes]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm#theLichsPhylactery
40 hit points, hardness 20, break dc 40. This is the basic philactery. Someone like Thog or Roy might be able to break it, but it'd take a long time, probably a good half hour of beating, and that's before even considering what the "gajillion of abjurations" are.

[Prowl]

Someone could always toss it into Mount Doom a rift...

[Snake-Aes]

Someone could always toss it into Mount Doom a rift...

Then it'd float in orbit forever or whatever like htat O.o

[Rad]

an anti magic field should deal with the abjurations. Then Power Attack it to leisure.
I do not think that we can take Soon's statement of "smashing" it as evidence that it would work. The point is that he knows about it and can tell other people about it. With Xykon and Redcloak dead and the phylactery in human hands someone would have found a way.

[Liwen]

Combo of Greater dispelling, disjunction and anti-magic field, then melt it at your local blacksmith.

PS: Get ride of the Epic Lich Sorceror first.

[Jackson]

I got the impression that many of the abjurations protecting the phylactery were placed there as a direct result of Soon correctly identifying it in front of Xykon, thereby proving that the strategy of hiding it in plain site had failed. Meaning it was eminently more smashable when Soon made his threat than when O'Chul finally got the opportunity to smash it.

[Ancalagon]

I thought Gandalf said that not even Ancalagon could destroy the One Ring?

It's basically this: "Dragonfire might be able to do it. But maybe not, it's the One Ring after all. It does not matter anyway as there are no Dragons left. What are our other options?"

[hamishspence]

It is said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough, nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.

There are implied to be dragons left- just not powerful ones.

[Ancalagon]

It is said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough, nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.

There are implied to be dragons left- just not powerful ones.

Given what the LotR and the End of the Third Age represents, it's quite likely there were no other Dragons left. It does not matter anyway...

[Asta Kask]

It's basically this: "Dragonfire might be able to do it. But maybe not, it's the One Ring after all. It does not matter anyway as there are no Dragons left. What are our other options?"

So, Ancalagon - could you have destroyed the One Ring? :smallsmile:

[factotum]

There are implied to be dragons left- just not powerful ones.

And it's also very clear that even the most powerful dragon who ever lived could not destroy the One Ring, so it doesn't matter whether there are any left or not--they can't help, even if they were inclined to do so.

[Ancalagon]

And it's also very clear that even the most powerful dragon who ever lived could not destroy the One Ring, so it doesn't matter whether there are any left or not--they can't help, even if they were inclined to do so.

We have no scientific proof, just an opinion. But I doubt Sauron would have
let someone experiment with that ring and dragonfire. ;)

Given that the old dragons are on a similar powerlevel as Maiar (Sauron etc) I'd not be that sure that "not even Ancalagon the Black" could have burned it (it was maia-made after all!). But the discussion is quite pointless as there were no old dragons left (which is good. Since if Sauron had called even one of them for his fights in the late third age, the story would have been over quite quickly. Just imagine Smaug not getting killed a few years earlier... ;)).

[hamishspence]

Unfinished Tales mentions this- as do some recent editions of The Hobbit.

That's the main reason Gandalf helped Thorin & Company- not just because of sympathy for their goals, but because he knew Smaug & Sauron would be a terrifying combination.

[Dr.Epic]

Pterosaurs (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Fell_beast)

Next thing you'll be telling is that Balrogs have wings.

[factotum]

We have no scientific proof, just an opinion.

The opinion of a powerful Maia who had been specifically sent to Middle-earth to fight Sauron and his rings carries some weight, methinks! :smallwink: