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View Full Version : Positive Energy Overload [3.5/Pathfinder]



subject42
2010-02-10, 08:00 PM
I remember reading an offhand comment on here that someone had created a cleric build that would make foes explode by loading them down with temporary hit points until they failed their fort save. Unfortunately, my search-fu is failing me and I can't find anything about it.

Does anyone here have any idea what I'm talking about? If not, does anyone have any idea on how you could pull this off?

Glimbur
2010-02-10, 08:08 PM
You need the specific wording of the Positive Energy plane to make that happen. At a guess, they use Planar Bubble or similar.

For another approach, use a Vivacious creature, which is a template from the Planar Handbook. The healing lasers (yes, I'm serious) and aura have the clause from the positive energy plane about making people explode.

fryplink
2010-02-10, 08:10 PM
don't pathfinder clerics get a positive energy burst that gives living creatures temp hps instead of turning? if so, improved turning, sun domain (if pathfinder turns greater turning into more dice of temp hps), but i've never seen the thread and that is just how i'd do it, either that or sending living enemies to the positive energy plane

EDIT: it appears i was very wrong, but the idea of overloading an enemies with temp hps to kill him is funny

Thrawn183
2010-02-10, 08:12 PM
It was a planar shephard build using the planar bubble ability. I think he also tried to do con damage to decrease his foes' max HP so the temporary HP killed them faster.

I think the character's name started with an "H"?

RandomNPC
2010-02-10, 08:36 PM
I think it was either with 50 HP over your normal max, or at twice your normal max. The idea was like death from massive dammage, only in reverse, basically you get so healthy you loop back around to being dead. But you have to be at max HP and have that many temporary HP from what i remember.

absolmorph
2010-02-10, 10:47 PM
I think it was either with 50 HP over your normal max, or at twice your normal max. The idea was like death from massive dammage, only in reverse, basically you get so healthy you loop back around to being dead. But you have to be at max HP and have that many temporary HP from what i remember.
You're so full of energy you explode.

Glimbur
2010-02-10, 10:57 PM
Once you're at as many temp hp as you have normal hp, you need to make a DC 20 fort save or explode. Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant).

Steward
2010-02-10, 11:00 PM
Theoretically, you could save someone's life by stabbing them in the throat every five minutes. Belkar would be the most revered healer in a positive-dominant world.

Ravens_cry
2010-02-10, 11:06 PM
Theoretically, you could save someone's life by stabbing them in the throat every five minutes. Belkar would be the most revered healer in a positive-dominant world.
Knowing Belkar, he would be the only one NOT stabbing in such a world.

Beorn080
2010-02-10, 11:10 PM
I don't know. I think he would enjoy the chance to make things scream more and for longer with no additional effort on his part, save for more stabbing.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-11, 07:15 AM
Once you're at as many temp hp as you have normal hp, you need to make a DC 20 fort save or explode. Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant).

But only from Positive energy plane creatures. Normal Temps don't do that.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-11, 07:21 AM
Note that this is considered one of the cheat ways to kill Tarrasques.

BobVosh
2010-02-11, 07:28 AM
Note that this is considered one of the cheat ways to kill Tarrasques.

How? It is said in thier block they can't be teleported/plane shifted againist thier will.

Optimystik
2010-02-11, 07:33 AM
How? It is said in thier block they can't be teleported/plane shifted againist thier will.

I don't see that line anywhere.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm

BobVosh
2010-02-11, 08:58 AM
I don't see that line anywhere.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm

I...I don't know where I got that. I thought "hmm, maybe it is in the PF version." Nope. Maybe the fluff that got deleted...no not in the MM. Maybe it was one of those threads for buffing up the fella.

Optimystik
2010-02-11, 09:47 AM
Granted, they have pretty high SR (which I think applies to most plane-hopping magic) but hopefully if you're fighting big T you have ways of pumping your CL/penetrating SR.

EDIT: I can't believe I just used "pumping" and "penetrating" in the same sentence as the Tarrasque

Harperfan7
2010-02-11, 10:27 AM
He'll heal you to death. (http://kera.name/articles/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/magic_wellness_stick.png)

Kylarra
2010-02-11, 10:31 AM
Linku (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4075709&postcount=8)? :smallbiggrin:

subject42
2010-02-11, 10:40 AM
That's the one! Thanks.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-11, 10:48 AM
This is also the reason why, as ridiculous as it is, that the best place for a Lich to store his phylactery is in a box on the PEP, since undead are immune to the Fortitude save vs. awesome...

magic9mushroom
2010-02-11, 10:52 AM
This is also the reason why, as ridiculous as it is, that the best place for a Lich to store his phylactery is in a box on the PEP, since undead are immune to the Fortitude save vs. awesome...

Common sense would dictate that undead take identical effects on the PEP that living creatures do in the NEP and vice versa.

Optimystik
2010-02-11, 10:52 AM
This is also the reason why, as ridiculous as it is, that the best place for a Lich to store his phylactery is in a box on the PEP, since undead are immune to the Fortitude save vs. awesome...

Ah, but being healed may count as "harmless" :smallwink:


Common sense would dictate that undead take identical effects on the PEP that living creatures do in the NEP and vice versa.

That is how I would rule it, but RAW you just gain Fast Healing, which works for undead just as it works for the living. Also RAW, it is not stated that a Lich has to reappear next to his phylactery either.

The lawyers will have a field day with this one :smallannoyed:

Dyllan
2010-02-11, 10:52 AM
This is also the reason why, as ridiculous as it is, that the best place for a Lich to store his phylactery is in a box on the PEP, since undead are immune to the Fortitude save vs. awesome...

But I thought positive energy harmed undead, and negative energy healed them (ie, they work backwards)

edit: Darn mushroom ninja! :-)

Optimystik
2010-02-11, 10:54 AM
But I thought positive energy harmed undead, and negative energy healed them (ie, they work backwards)

edit: Darn mushroom ninja! :-)

See my post above.

Dyllan
2010-02-11, 10:56 AM
That is how I would rule it, but RAW you just gain Fast Healing, which works for undead just as it works for the living. Also RAW, it is not stated that a Lich has to reappear next to his phylactery either.

Okay, so in the mythical world of RAW it'd work... but if a DM told me that worked in his world, I think I'd find a new DM. Would ANYONE actually run that by RAW? And if so, why?

Kylarra
2010-02-11, 10:59 AM
Okay, so in the mythical world of RAW it'd work... but if a DM told me that worked in his world, I think I'd find a new DM. Would ANYONE actually run that by RAW? And if so, why?
To mess with people's heads.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-11, 11:01 AM
Okay, so in the mythical world of RAW it'd work... but if a DM told me that worked in his world, I think I'd find a new DM. Would ANYONE actually run that by RAW? And if so, why?

No, noone would, because it's an obvious oversight (they forgot to account for the possibility of undead characters). Just about all spells using positive energy or negative energy have provisos for it.

Thrawn183
2010-02-11, 11:04 AM
HAH! I knew his name started with an "H"! Man, I so totally called it :smallcool:

Siegel
2010-02-11, 11:07 AM
There was a build here in the GEstalt Challenge "Design a villian" contest or so. He was a Cleric opsessed with healing

magic9mushroom
2010-02-11, 11:13 AM
There was a build here in the GEstalt Challenge "Design a villian" contest or so. He was a Cleric opsessed with healing

Was already mentioned and linked.

Optimystik
2010-02-11, 11:17 AM
No, noone would, because it's an obvious oversight (they forgot to account for the possibility of undead characters). Just about all spells using positive energy or negative energy have provisos for it.

Agreed - for any rules lawyer that tried these shenanigans with me, I'd rule that fast healing is harmless and therefore asplode his lich, who has an awful fort save on account of being a primary caster with no Con score.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-11, 11:22 AM
That reminds me; where are the rules for Positive Energy Levels?

Dyllan
2010-02-11, 11:33 AM
Agreed - for any rules lawyer that tried these shenanigans with me, I'd rule that fast healing is harmless and therefore asplode his lich, who has an awful fort save on account of being a primary caster with no Con score.

Well, I'd have a hard time arguing that something which causes you to explode is "harmless." But, any rules lawyer in my games would be stopped when I said "it doesn't work that way in my game." That ends the discussion around here, but is rarely needed.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-11, 11:58 AM
Well, yeah - I did preface it as 'ridiculous'...it's not something that any sane DM would allow, or any sane player would attempt to argue. It's an amusing oversight along the lines of monks not being proficient in unarmed strikes or using drowning to heal someone, to name a couple famous examples.


But now that I think of it, this can of worms may open right up again when we look at Constructs. A construct would likewise be subject to the effect and gain Fast Healing as an extraordinary ability. Like an undead, it would be immune to the Fort save vs. Awesome, but unlike the undead, the common sense argument is much weaker.

satorian
2010-02-11, 12:24 PM
I would have no problem with a house rule that said that constructs are immune to all positive and negative energy effects, including planar effects. This even makes some sense considering you can't heal most constructs with healing magic. Warforged of course are more alive in the normal sense, so should receive a bonus vs. all pos and neg energy effects, including planar, but should still be affected.

This, I think, is wholly unlike undead, who really should take damage on the positive energy plane as the living do on the negative energy plane, as well as be under a constant turning attempt. Nothing should be scarier to a vampire lord or demilich than being planeshifted to the positive energy plane and held there.

Optimystik
2010-02-11, 12:38 PM
Well, I'd have a hard time arguing that something which causes you to explode is "harmless."

It's at least as hard as arguing that concentrated positive energy is harmless to undead. :smallamused:


But now that I think of it, this can of worms may open right up again when we look at Constructs. A construct would likewise be subject to the effect and gain Fast Healing as an extraordinary ability. Like an undead, it would be immune to the Fort save vs. Awesome, but unlike the undead, the common sense argument is much weaker.

I don't think constructs should be affected at all, by either plane.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-02-11, 06:51 PM
Well, yeah - I did preface it as 'ridiculous'...it's not something that any sane DM would allow, or any sane player would attempt to argue. It's an amusing oversight along the lines of monks not being proficient in unarmed strikes or using drowning to heal someone, to name a couple famous examples.


But now that I think of it, this can of worms may open right up again when we look at Constructs. A construct would likewise be subject to the effect and gain Fast Healing as an extraordinary ability. Like an undead, it would be immune to the Fort save vs. Awesome, but unlike the undead, the common sense argument is much weaker.

Please don't imply that I am insane.

I'd justify it in the sense that healing spells "inject" positive energy into the target, causing damage or healing as it canceled negative energy in undead or reinforced it in the living. The positive energy plane is basically being bathed in positive energy, the flesh of undead creaures repairs itself without reaching the negative energy driving the creature and living creatues absorb the positive energy slowly but otherwise normally.

Not sure about constructs. Golems are powered with trapped earth elementals (or their souls or something) so it may affect them, Warforged are semi-living so they pass, other constructs are anyone's guess.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-11, 11:31 PM
Please don't imply that I am insane.

I'd justify it in the sense that healing spells "inject" positive energy into the target, causing damage or healing as it canceled negative energy in undead or reinforced it in the living. The positive energy plane is basically being bathed in positive energy, the flesh of undead creaures repairs itself without reaching the negative energy driving the creature and living creatues absorb the positive energy slowly but otherwise normally.

Not sure about constructs. Golems are powered with trapped earth elementals (or their souls or something) so it may affect them, Warforged are semi-living so they pass, other constructs are anyone's guess.

Why would positive energy repair undead flesh?

Optimystik
2010-02-12, 07:24 AM
Please don't imply that I am insane.

I'd justify it in the sense that healing spells "inject" positive energy into the target, causing damage or healing as it canceled negative energy in undead or reinforced it in the living. The positive energy plane is basically being bathed in positive energy, the flesh of undead creaures repairs itself without reaching the negative energy driving the creature and living creatues absorb the positive energy slowly but otherwise normally.

The problem with your explanation is that even incorporeal undead can benefit from Fast Healing. That's right, a wraith will benefit from going to the PEP. This clearly was not RAI or RAMS.