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View Full Version : 4e-Martial Practices, aka non-magical rituals.



Asbestos
2010-02-12, 01:16 AM
http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20100212

Check it out, even you non-DDI folk.

Tracker's Eye seems like it might be useful... if the checks weren't so ungodly high.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-12, 01:23 AM
http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20100212

Check it out, even you non-DDI folk.

Tracker's Eye seems like it might be useful... if the checks weren't so ungodly high.

Hmm, not such a 4e fan but this looks pretty interesting.

Asbestos
2010-02-12, 02:19 AM
I just noticed the "Use Scroll" is a level 15 Martial Practice with Thievery as the associated stat.

Does this seem like UMD to anyone else?

Draz74
2010-02-12, 02:21 AM
I just noticed the "Use Scroll" is a level 15 Martial Practice with Thievery as the associated stat.

Does this seem like UMD to anyone else?

Yep. It's back!

RebelRogue
2010-02-12, 08:12 AM
I just noticed the "Use Scroll" is a level 15 Martial Practice with Thievery as the associated stat.

Does this seem like UMD to anyone else?
In fact, it's the other way around. Rogues (or thieves) in the older editions had a chance of using scrolls. UMD in 3.5 is the generalization of this idea.

bosssmiley
2010-02-12, 09:08 AM
Feats that cost Healing Surges? *Meh*

WOTC Martial Power 2 (2010):

Forge Weapon

Using ancient crafting techniques, you forge a weapon of such artfulness that it becomes enchanted.

Level: 4
Time: 1 day
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: See below
Market Price: 175 gp
Key Skill: Athletics (no check)

You construct a magic weapon. Your level determines the highest enhancement bonus the weapon can have (see the table below). You can create only a magic weapon (Player’s Handbook, page 235). You can also make the weapon silvered while you perform this practice by paying the normal price (Player’s Handbook, page 220).

The component cost is equal to the price of the magic weapon you create.

The Gaming Den Tome Series collection "Races of War" (2006)


Forge Lore: A 7th level Fighter can produce magical weapons and equipment as if he had a Caster Level equal to his ranks in Craft.

So the 4E write up is longer, costs you, and is four years late to the party.

Can someone remind me why we hobbyists actually need the industry again? :smallamused:

Optimystik
2010-02-12, 09:59 AM
Can someone remind me why we hobbyists actually need the industry again? :smallamused:

Because WotC supplements are the only thing you can guarantee everyone has heard of and/or read.

Branding is a very powerful tool.

Kurald Galain
2010-02-12, 10:20 AM
I just noticed the "Use Scroll" is a level 15 Martial Practice with Thievery as the associated stat.
I'm curious what that is supposed to do, since the only scrolls that exist in 4E so far can already be used by anyone.

Overall, this rule seems like a copy/paste job of rituals and suffers from the exact same design problems as rituals do. I believe that the only reason it exists in the first place is because, despite the design principle that even non-casters can use rituals by taking the feat, non-casters simply don't do that.

hamishspence
2010-02-12, 10:33 AM
Possible answer- if the power of the effect generated by the scroll, is dependant on a skill check- being able to replace, say, Arcana, with Thievery, ensures that the scroll is used at high power, and the character doesn't suffer from their lack of Arcana, Nature, etc.

Kurald Galain
2010-02-12, 10:38 AM
Possible answer- if the power of the effect generated by the scroll, is dependant on a skill check- being able to replace, say, Arcana, with Thievery, ensures that the scroll is used at high power, and the character doesn't suffer from their lack of Arcana, Nature, etc.

Come to think of it, a far more useful power for rogues (and more fitting with the earlier skill of UMD) would be the ability to use wands.

Artanis
2010-02-12, 11:34 AM
I'm curious what that is supposed to do, since the only scrolls that exist in 4E so far can already be used by anyone.

I was wondering that, too. My assumption is roughly the same as hamishspence's, but you know what they say when you assume :smalltongue:



Overall, this rule seems like a copy/paste job of rituals and suffers from the exact same design problems as rituals do. I believe that the only reason it exists in the first place is because, despite the design principle that even non-casters can use rituals by taking the feat, non-casters simply don't do that.

Well, if nothing else, it does (sometimes) seem to replace the component cost with a renewable resource. That in itself is at least something.

For instance, the fact that it uses a renewable resource instead of gp to use Tracker's Eye means it's at least worth a quick look before being summarily relegated to the "utter waste of page space" category :smallwink:

hamishspence
2010-02-12, 11:59 AM
I was wondering that, too. My assumption is roughly the same as hamishspence's, but you know what they say when you assume :smalltongue:


In this case its more of a hypothesis :smallamused:

Gametime
2010-02-12, 12:31 PM
Can someone remind me why we hobbyists actually need the industry again? :smallamused:

Because Wizards of the Coast can actually distribute its products in a pervasive way.

rayne_dragon
2010-02-12, 12:47 PM
I don't know if this is good. I kinda like the basic concept, but the fact that it's basically ritual casting all over again with another feat isn't exactly inspiring confidence in me. For starters is the feat going to be available to all classes, or just martial ones? Are we going to end up with redone ritual casting for each power source? Then we'll have something like 5 different kinds of rituals, each kind requiring a feat... good luck if you want to use all of them with your character.

On the other hand, I like the fact that they seem more open to alternate costs. Healing surge cost for rituals er... practices is a good start.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-02-12, 01:09 PM
Hrm. So far I haven't been too happy with the "super-skills" I've seen (such as Skill Trick Utilities) but these excerpts look OK.

In fact, I think I prefer them to "Skill Tricks" (as presented) but who knows what those will look like when PHB 3 actually comes out.

Dragonmuncher
2010-02-12, 01:48 PM
Er... a lot of these feel like they shouldn't need to have special "rituals"

Like, "Alter Ego" is just using the old Disguise skill. "Tracker's Eye" is exactly what the old Track feat was. A lot of these others look similar- Word on the Street, Feign Death, Handle Steed, Decipher Script, Precise Forgery...


These are all things you should just be able to do through the use of your skills. That was the entire POINT of consolidating the skills list in 4e.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-02-12, 02:13 PM
These are all things you should just be able to do through the use of your skills. That was the entire POINT of consolidating the skills list in 4e.
Note that you are doing these through the use of your skills; these are just highly specialized usages of skills that require additional training to know how to use.

For example, Tracker's Eye not just gives you a bonus to following tracks, but it provides additional information on the subjects. An optional sub-system, I suppose, but not necessarily a bad one.

Mando Knight
2010-02-12, 02:16 PM
Er... a lot of these feel like they shouldn't need to have special "rituals"

Like, "Alter Ego" is just using the old Disguise skill. "Tracker's Eye" is exactly what the old Track feat was. A lot of these others look similar- Word on the Street, Feign Death, Handle Steed, Decipher Script, Precise Forgery...


These are all things you should just be able to do through the use of your skills. That was the entire POINT of consolidating the skills list in 4e.

Alter Ego is Bluff+ for disguises. You can do all of these things, but knowing the Martial Practice allows you to do them better. For example, Bluff would allow you to make a check to disguise yourself as a reasonably similar humanoid, but Alter Ego lets your Tiefling Rogue believably disguise herself as Sir Paladin-Man, Human paragon of JUSTICE as well as if she were a Changeling, for a cost that's nearly negligible at level 8.

Tracker's Eye allows Tracking as per Perception, but with a bonus... it apparently doesn't take penalties to the check for low-quality tracks, and then grants a boost to following the tracks after you know what they are.

Asbestos
2010-02-12, 04:44 PM
Feats that cost Healing Surges? *Meh*
These aren't feats.




So the 4E write up is longer, costs you, and is four years late to the party.
I really hope the other version isn't giving you free magical weapons. The 'component cost' in 4e is the cost of the item.

Agrippa
2010-02-12, 04:55 PM
I really hope the other version isn't giving you free magical weapons. The 'component cost' in 4e is the cost of the item.

I've checked Races of War. You still have to pay the component and construction costs. Fighters just get the ability to forge magical weapons and armor for free.