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View Full Version : Ironwood equals 'Lots of Loot....'?



BigBadBugbear
2010-02-12, 05:27 AM
I was reading the ironwood spell for my druid in a low magic items campaign.
I came to the following conclusion.

A lvl 11 druid can cast Ironwood on a lump of wood of 55lb.. To make it just Iron-like. He could equal cast it on a lump of 27.5lb to make it magical +1.

The druid can cast wood shape to shape it in any form right??

According to SRD

Spells that affect wood do affect ironwood, although ironwood does not burn.

So you could shape it into a row of darts with only one splinter connecting them.

You dont even have to make a craft check

A dart weighs 1/2lb. So 27.5lb of wood equals 55 darts.

One Magical +1 dart costs +/-2301 gp.

55 times 2301gp= 126.555gp

So Ironwood+Woodshape=126.555gp

Am I wrong?

Demented
2010-02-12, 05:55 AM
Fine detail isn't possible with Wood Shape.

You could still do it without wood shape, but technically you would end up with a '27.5lb +1 ironwood object of pointiness that could probably be turned into darts if only there were rules for that sort of thing'. And then you'd need to convince your DM to give you someone willing to pay 126.555gp for it.

BooNL
2010-02-12, 05:58 AM
Also, darts are ammunition. Which means you enchant 50 of them for the price of one regular item.

So 55 darts would amount to about 2000gc.

kamikasei
2010-02-12, 06:00 AM
You would also have to find someone willing to pay full price for magic items that become useless after CL days.

BigBadBugbear
2010-02-12, 06:05 AM
Okay, revised:


A lvl 11 druid can cast Ironwood on a lump of wood of 55lb.. To make it just Iron-like. He could equal cast it on a lump of 27.5lb to make it magical +1.

The druid can cast wood shape to shape it in any form right??

According to SRD
Quote:

Spells that affect wood do affect ironwood, although ironwood does not burn.
So you could shape it into a row of darts with only one splinter connecting them.

You don't even have to make a craft check.. And you don't need details.

A club weighs 2lb. So 27.5lb of wood equals 13 clubs

One Magical +1 club costs +/-2300 gp.

13 times 2300gp= 29.900gp

So Ironwood+Woodshape= 29.900gp

And about the duration.... They don't know....

TheCountAlucard
2010-02-12, 06:11 AM
And about the duration.... They don't know....Someone with the money to throw around to be able to afford such a club could likewise afford to have it identified, at which point the crooked fellow who tried to pawn it off may very well end up eating his own teeth.

Eldan
2010-02-12, 06:52 AM
Also, if they don't know that it's only temporary, how can they know that it's +1?

SparkMandriller
2010-02-12, 07:07 AM
And about the duration.... They don't know....

May as well cast GMW in that case.

BigBadBugbear
2010-02-12, 07:08 AM
Someone with the money to throw around to be able to afford such a club could likewise afford to have it identified, at which point the crooked fellow who tried to pawn it off may very well end up eating his own teeth.

Dude... your a 11 lvl druid... and you sell it to a lvl 5 party or something... they don't stand a chance.



Also, if they don't know that it's only temporary, how can they know that it's +1?

Buff check......

Gnaritas
2010-02-12, 07:13 AM
Dude... your a 11 lvl druid... and you sell it to a lvl 5 party or something... they don't stand a chance.

They mention the situation to the Paladin Order next door, expect a visit...

One tip: don't do this, don't even think about anything like this, play the game, have fun. Don't make the other players and the DM hate you, you know the DM will not allow it.

If you tried this in my game i would consider it a joke, if you continued i would politely ask you to stop wasting game time.

Besides there are better ways to make infinite money as a spellcaster, but no, your DM will not allow those either.

TheCountAlucard
2010-02-12, 07:28 AM
Dude... your a 11 lvl druid... and you sell it to a lvl 5 party or something... they don't stand a chance....then why not just kill them and take the money, then, rather than worry about selling them phony weapons in the first place?

And yeah, highly doubt DMs would allow it.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-12, 07:29 AM
I'd say he could do it once, but...
a) he'd have to move his shop (and leave town) in a few days (before CL/days)
b) He'd get a reputation to not be trustworthy (Lumi's will try to kill him)

BigBadBugbear
2010-02-12, 07:36 AM
One tip: don't do this, don't even think about anything like this, play the game, have fun. Don't make the other players and the DM hate you, you know the DM will not allow it.

If you tried this in my game i would consider it a joke, if you continued i would politely ask you to stop wasting game time.

Besides there are better ways to make infinite money as a spellcaster, but no, your DM will not allow those either.

Did I say I was planning to use it... No...

I was just reading it and was like: WTF!...

I'm a big fan of pure Role-play, we spend game evening after game evening only role-playing and not killing monsters..

And also if someone tried this with any of my campaigns, I would kick him in the nuts and tell him to continue role-playing.... By mater of speak....

The Rose Dragon
2010-02-12, 07:55 AM
Even if they don't know it's temporary, they will start suspecting when their items disappear. Ironwood uses the wooden item as a material component, so the created item will disappear when the duration runs out.

BigBadBugbear
2010-02-12, 08:02 AM
I don't thing they meant it to be that way....

But according to your way of thinking its true......

Fitz10019
2010-02-12, 08:54 AM
Take this idea out of the 'get rich' file and put it into the 'what to do when the DM throws rust monsters at you' file.

Greenish
2010-02-12, 08:59 AM
Take this idea out of the 'get rich' file and put it into the 'what to do when the DM throws rust monsters at you' file.Luckily, Ironwood won't be rusted.

Zom B
2010-02-12, 09:14 AM
Plus you've got a string of clubs connected by a splinter, and the entire mass is a +1 weapon. The second you break that splinter, you have broken the weapon.

A DM I knew once gave a 2nd ed player "Mittens of Ogre Power", which were yarn mittens connected by a string. The player could only use two-handed weapons with it or risk breaking the string and ruining the magic item.

BigBadBugbear
2010-02-12, 09:30 AM
Half iron sword is still iron...

Half silver sword is still silver...

Half magic sword is still a magic sword.. It doest lose its enchantment bonus.. Its just unwieldy...

So if you make it to be wield it is still functional...

Lysander
2010-02-12, 09:40 AM
If people know about magic weapons who says they don't know about the Ironwood spell? If you peddle a strong-as-steel wooden sword people might know exactly what it is. But that doesn't mean a buyer will think you're cheating them. They might instead ask "How many days does the spell have left?" and pay a price based on that. It's basically renting a magic sword, and not worthless just because its temporary.

Gnaritas
2010-02-12, 09:41 AM
Half iron sword is still iron...

Half silver sword is still silver...

Half magic sword is still a magic sword.. It doest lose its enchantment bonus.. Its just unwieldy...

So if you make it to be wield it is still functional...

This is incorrect. A broken magical weapon loses it's magical power.

kamikasei
2010-02-12, 09:42 AM
Half magic sword is still a magic sword.. It doest lose its enchantment bonus.. Its just unwieldy...

Do you have any actual basis for saying that?

A broken magical item loses its magical properties. Snap a magic sword in half and it's not magical any more. Snap a magical "two-clubs-joined-by-a-splinter" in half (at the splinter) and it's two unmagical clubs.

Magic is not a metal.

Gnaritas
2010-02-12, 09:45 AM
If people know about magic weapons who says they don't know about the Ironwood spell? If you peddle a strong-as-steel wooden sword people might know exactly what it is. But that doesn't mean a buyer will think you're cheating them. They might instead ask "How many days does the spell have left?" and pay a price based on that. It's basically renting a magic sword, and not worthless just because its temporary.

Yes, there are even rules for this:



Spell, 0-level Caster level × 5 gp
Spell, 1st-level Caster level × 10 gp
Spell, 2nd-level Caster level × 20 gp
Spell, 3rd-level Caster level × 30 gp
Spell, 4th-level Caster level × 40 gp
Spell, 5th-level Caster level × 50 gp
Spell, 6th-level Caster level × 60 gp
Spell, 7th-level Caster level × 70 gp
Spell, 8th-level Caster level × 80 gp
Spell, 9th-level Caster level × 90 gp

The indicated amount is how much it costs to get a spellcaster to cast a spell for you.


You could make quite some gold doing this, the DM needs to provide someone willing to spend money on this though....

Zom B
2010-02-12, 09:46 AM
A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.

. . . . . . . .

BigBadBugbear
2010-02-12, 10:21 AM
Okay thats my bad....

But you could make a cheap ass fullplates for hire.....

FishAreWet
2010-02-12, 10:32 AM
But it's temporary. you might as well Summon Monster and sell them.

Ernir
2010-02-12, 11:33 AM
I have a less debatable plan, if what you want is to transform one thing into another.

Price of salt: 5 gp/pound. Price of Cow: 10 gp. Weight of cow: About 1500 pounds when they are slaughtered? Flesh to Salt: level 5 Druid spell.




Anyway, breaking the D&D economy to pieces is not really that difficult, using high level spells for the purpose may be overkill. :smalltongue:

Boci
2010-02-12, 12:01 PM
Anyway, breaking the D&D economy to pieces is not really that difficult, using high level spells for the purpose may be overkill. :smalltongue:

Quite right. 10ft pole industry? Clubs for firewood?

ericgrau
2010-02-12, 12:02 PM
1. You could try getting into the 10 foot pole business but no one except adventurers buy them, so you'd have limited sales. And adventurers won't walk an extra 20 feet from the general store to Johnny's 10 foot pole shop even if you charge a silver less. Overcharging for cheap items in high demand among the wealthy is nothing new. And while people could work around it or try to sell their own, no one bothers for good reason.

2. Clubs are virtually free, not actually free. Like clubs you can also gather firewood for "free", but it takes time.


I have a less debatable plan, if what you want is to transform one thing into another.

Price of salt: 5 gp/pound. Price of Cow: 10 gp. Weight of cow: About 1500 pounds when they are slaughtered? Flesh to Salt: level 5 Druid spell.




Anyway, breaking the D&D economy to pieces is not really that difficult, using high level spells for the purpose may be overkill. :smalltongue:

Salt only cost so much when it was hard to make. Apparently it is no longer hard to make. Once you introduce that druid spell, the price of salt drops.

TheCountAlucard
2010-02-12, 01:00 PM
Salt only cost so much when it was hard to make. Apparently it is no longer hard to make. Once you introduce that druid spell, the price of salt drops.Once you start making prices vary too much, people are going to point out the Wish-based economy's objective view of items. I doubt wishing for 25,000 gp worth of salt is going to have the cosmic powers check the local prices first...

...but then again, if it does, you could start some sort of genie-powered salt plantation whose location varies based on the cheapest prices for salt, plane shifting or teleporting to locations with more expensive prices for salt...

...but then again, perhaps we're all just looking way too deeply into this. Perhaps it's all made to be taken with a grain of salt. That pun even hurt me.

Boci
2010-02-12, 01:34 PM
2. Clubs are virtually free, not actually free. Like clubs you can also gather firewood for "free", but it takes time.

Source? Fire wood has a listed price, clubs do not.

Ormagoden
2010-02-12, 01:39 PM
Better way to make money as a druid.

1 Find a sizable town, preferably a capital.
2 Offer to cast spells for gold to the populace or the noble in the area.
3 Sit in your tree house outside of town and cast spells.
4 ????
5 Profit

Zom B
2010-02-12, 01:51 PM
Source? Fire wood has a listed price, clubs do not.

Adventurer: "Shopkeeper, I have ten clubs for sale."
Shopkeeper: "I don't want these. One can procure a decent hitting stick from just about any patch of ground, at no cost."
Adventurer: "Well then, I have ten pieces of firewood."
Shopkeeper: "Now we're talking."

Boci
2010-02-12, 01:55 PM
Adventurer: "Shopkeeper, I have ten clubs for sale."
Shopkeeper: "I don't want these. One can procure a decent hitting stick from just about any patch of ground, at no cost."
Adventurer: "Well then, I have ten pieces of firewood."
Shopkeeper: "Now we're talking."

Yep pretty much. I never said I agreed with RAW.

ericgrau
2010-02-12, 02:28 PM
Source? Fire wood has a listed price, clubs do not.

This may surprise you but when you're walking in the woods you can walk up to a piece of dead wood and pick it up. This is the typical way to make a fire. Most campers do not carry 50 lbs. of firewood in their backpacks.

And at 1 copper piece for 30 lbs. you must be using "listed price" rather loosely here. By weight, this 1 copper piece bundle of firewood makes 6 clubs. You're really telling me it bothers you that they did not price clubs around 1/6 cp each instead of free? How many other hundreds of pages of minor unmentioned rules do you feel are so essential in your game? If your way of sticking to RAW involves firewood stores on the trail or no firewood at all, you'll soon have other much bigger rules issues to deal with than whether or not the party is warm at night. At least in any system with less than 5,000 pages of carefully cross-checked rules.

Fiery Diamond
2010-02-12, 03:10 PM
This may surprise you but when you're walking in the woods you can walk up to a piece of dead wood and pick it up. This is the typical way to make a fire. Most campers do not carry 50 lbs. of firewood in their backpacks.

And at 1 copper piece for 30 lbs. you must be using "listed price" rather loosely here. By weight, this 1 copper piece bundle of firewood makes 6 clubs. You're really telling me it bothers you that they did not price clubs around 1/6 cp each instead of free? How many other hundreds of pages of minor unmentioned rules do you feel are so essential in your game? If your way of sticking to RAW involves firewood stores on the trail or no firewood at all, you'll soon have other much bigger rules issues to deal with than whether or not the party is warm at night. At least in any system with less than 5,000 pages of carefully cross-checked rules.

Listen to the guy. Is right, you know.

Boci
2010-02-12, 05:05 PM
This may surprise you but when you're walking in the woods you can walk up to a piece of dead wood and pick it up. This is the typical way to make a fire. Most campers do not carry 50 lbs. of firewood in their backpacks.

I know. I've been camping.


And at 1 copper piece for 30 lbs. you must be using "listed price" rather loosely here. By weight, this 1 copper piece bundle of firewood makes 6 clubs. You're really telling me it bothers you that they did not price clubs around 1/6 cp each instead of free? How many other hundreds of pages of minor unmentioned rules do you feel are so essential in your game? If your way of sticking to RAW involves firewood stores on the trail or no firewood at all, you'll soon have other much bigger rules issues to deal with than whether or not the party is warm at night. At least in any system with less than 5,000 pages of carefully cross-checked rules.

No, I'm saying its fun to point out the flaws in RAW and the scenarios they bring to mind, like what Zom B posted.

ericgrau
2010-02-12, 05:37 PM
Well as long as we're just trying to be silly.

Bayar
2010-02-12, 06:09 PM
This may surprise you but when you're walking in the woods you can walk up to a piece of dead wood and pick it up. This is the typical way to make a fire. Most campers do not carry 50 lbs. of firewood in their backpacks.

And at 1 copper piece for 30 lbs. you must be using "listed price" rather loosely here. By weight, this 1 copper piece bundle of firewood makes 6 clubs. You're really telling me it bothers you that they did not price clubs around 1/6 cp each instead of free? How many other hundreds of pages of minor unmentioned rules do you feel are so essential in your game? If your way of sticking to RAW involves firewood stores on the trail or no firewood at all, you'll soon have other much bigger rules issues to deal with than whether or not the party is warm at night. At least in any system with less than 5,000 pages of carefully cross-checked rules.

Or a book that is almost 1000 pages and must not be named.