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A.J.Gibson
2010-02-12, 03:57 PM
I absolutely love the idea of the dragonheart mage: a sorcerer that wants to explore their draconic heritage at the cost of some of their magical enhancement. The problem, as I see it, is that you don't get a lot of dragon for your dollar.

The dragonheart mage gives up 2 levels of spell progression, in return he/she gets good fortitude saves (in addition to good will saves), d6 hit dice, 3 draconic heritage feats of choice, and rather neat breath weapon ability which lets you burn a spell slot to do 2d6 damage per spell level in a 30' cone or 60' line (reflex save for half) with damage increasing to 2d8 and then 3d6 at level 10. As an added bonus, it's a supernatural ability instead of spell-like.

I think it's a decent class, but that it's a little underpowered for the loss of 2 levels of spell progression, and it doesn't offer 'a cookie at every level', so I'd like some suggestions on how to beef up the class a bit (if it needs it).

Pramxnim
2010-02-12, 04:34 PM
I think the Dragonheart Mage is fine without much more tinkering. Sure the loss of two spellcasting levels is tough, but that's not going to make you any less effective than your melee friends.

One thing that's really fun about the Mage is the spell Magic of the Dragonheart from Dragon Magic. It allows you to treat its spell level as equal to 1/2 your caster level for purposes of triggering your Draconic Feats. This means you can abuse Draconic Breath by pumping up your caster level (there are many means to do that) pass your Hit Dice (starting as an Illumian would cover the CL loss from the PrC, and other means will boost it beyond that).

Then you can use the spell to fuel your Draconic Breath and deal 1/2*(HD + n) * 3d6 (where n is the number of caster levels in excess of your HD) whenever you burn a 2nd level spell slot. That's quite good if you ask me.

e.g. a level 16 Illumian Sorc/Dragonheart Mage has 16 Caster Level, and he boosts it with some other features (the feat Draconic Power for example) and gets 20 Caster Level. When he burns a 2nd level spell slot, he unleashes a Cone or Line of destruction that does 30d6 damage. Pretty neat for a 2nd level spell, don'tcha think?

A.J.Gibson
2010-02-12, 04:46 PM
One thing that's really fun about the Mage is the spell Magic of the Dragonheart from Dragon Magic. It allows you to treat its spell level as equal to 1/2 your caster level for purposes of triggering your Draconic Feats. This means you can abuse Draconic Breath by pumping up your caster level (there are many means to do that) pass your Hit Dice (starting as an Illumian would cover the CL loss from the PrC, and other means will boost it beyond that).


I'm going to need to get my books and check to see if that's right...

The draconic breath power is pretty good, as long as you're using your highest spell level, but at lower levels it's usually more effective to use a spell because damage usually stacks with character level rather than spell level. What I like most is that it's a supernatural power, which means it works in certain situations spells don't.

What I'm really look for, though, is not more combat power but more draconic 'touches'. I was thinking that as an upgrade, the class could grant a draconic feat at every level where it doesn't grant something else (a total of 4 additional feats over what it currently offers) and maybe throw in some some extra spells known (provided they have a draconic theme).

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Draconic Breath 2d6 | -

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Draconic Feat |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting

3rd|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|Draconic Feat |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting

4th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Draconic Feat |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting

5th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Draconic Feat |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting

6th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Draconic Breath 2d8 | -

7th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Draconic Feat |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting

8th|
+4|
+6|
+2|
+6|Draconic Feat |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting

9th|
+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Draconic Feat |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting

10th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Draconic Breath 3d6 |+1 to Existing Sorcerer Spellcasting[/table]

A.J.Gibson
2010-02-12, 07:34 PM
One thing that's really fun about the Mage is the spell Magic of the Dragonheart from Dragon Magic. It allows you to treat its spell level as equal to 1/2 your caster level for purposes of triggering your Draconic Feats. This means you can abuse Draconic Breath by pumping up your caster level (there are many means to do that) pass your Hit Dice (starting as an Illumian would cover the CL loss from the PrC, and other means will boost it beyond that).


I've looked at the spell, and unfortunately that isn't how Draconic breath works. Draconic breath uses up a spell slot, rather than being an after affect of casting a spell. For other effects that take place after a spell is cast, such as draconic vigor or draconic flight, it work the way you specified.

Redshirt traine
2011-03-06, 05:54 PM
I like your idea of putting more feats for the class, but might i sugest instead of putting only a draconic feat on every other level you put on certain breath feats insted. maybe on the 4th and 8th level. Besides, there are only 12 draconic feats in Races of the dragon and draconic heritage and breath are needed or given when you adopt the class. The way i see it if you give the class 10 feats(this including heritage and breath) then most of the players who choose this class may feel very simailer aginst others of the same class becasue they took many of the same feats.

If i'm mistaken or something please tell me and i'll kindly stay quiet and let the real players talk.

Runestar
2011-03-07, 07:36 AM
I personally feel it is as balanced as spellcasting prcs ought to go. Since pure wiz/sorc basically give fully spellcaster progression with no extra class features (save for familiar progression), prcs which grant additional abilities ought to make you give up something in return, namely a hit to spellcasting progression. It is other prcs like incantatrix which "spoil the market", rather.

The prereqs are simple enough that any sorc will automatically qualify for it (and draconic heritage is a free feat if you go dragonblood racial sub).

Only thing I would change is that at 1st lv, if you already have the draconic breath feat, then you may choose another draconic feat. This way, I don't have to wait until 6th lv. I can take draconic breath at 1st lv (which is a fairly useful feat in itself) and not be afraid of wasting a feat later on. :smallsmile:

Hey, if psionics can do it, why not arcane? :smallannoyed: