Shapechanging shapechanger

[Lyavel "Arashi"]

Okay, so I'm about to enter a campain and I'm playing a changeling master of many forms. I got the mechanics more or less planned out, but I have one question that my group can't come to a final decision on. A changling's ability works on the grounds that it is humanoid in shape itself. Now if I took the form of a tiger for example, wouldn't it make sense that I could use my changling ability to take the form of say a bear, appearance-wise?

[Lycanthromancer]

Okay, so I'm about to enter a campain and I'm playing a changeling master of many forms. I got the mechanics more or less planned out, but I have one question that my group can't come to a final decision on. A changling's ability works on the grounds that it is humanoid in shape itself. Now if I took the form of a tiger for example, wouldn't it make sense that I could use my changling ability to take the form of say a bear, appearance-wise?You don't lose Su abilities when changed, so yes, you could.

I had a changeling MoMF/warshaper, and I often took the form of a gargoyle, using it's rock-ness to blend in. I'd cover my body with my wings so I'd look like a big boulder, then blend in with surrounding rocks. I got to use my insane Disguise check in lieu of a Hide check. :smallbiggrin:

[sonofzeal]

Needs a Hat of Disguise with a Wildling Clasp.

[Dr.Epic]

Okay, so I'm about to enter a campain and I'm playing a changeling master of many forms. I got the mechanics more or less planned out, but I have one question that my group can't come to a final decision on. A changling's ability works on the grounds that it is humanoid in shape itself. Now if I took the form of a tiger for example, wouldn't it make sense that I could use my changling ability to take the form of say a bear, appearance-wise?

Changelings as I recall get +10 bonus to disguise so you'd have to make a roll.

[Devils_Advocate]

The changeling's Minor Shape Change ability isn't mechanically dependent on being in humanoid form. Officially, it just works like the disguise self spell, except that it only affects the changeling's body and isn't illusory. But the reason that they're given that ability is that they're part doppelganger, and doppelgangers are specifically capable of assuming humanoid forms.

So, arguably, changelings should only be able to use their racial shapechanging to mimic humanoids, since that's what doppelgangers do. But on the other hand, one could instead argue that the changeling's shapechanging mechanic is exactly how doppelgangers ought to work.

By the Rules As Written, a changeling in animal form can use its racial shapechanging to mimic similar animals but a doppelganger in animal form can't, which seems silly, because it makes a part-doppelganger better at its doppelganger-inherited ability than a full doppelganger. But it's unclear which race ought to be adjusted.

[Draxar]

Changelings as I recall get +10 bonus to disguise so you'd have to make a roll.

Changelings get Minor Change Shape, which is functionally identical to Disguise Self except for the fact that it doesn't affect clothes. Looking at the description of Disguise Self, it says "you cannot change your body type", I'm not sure if that means Type, or just the general shape of your body. Because if it's the latter, I'd say the gait and shape of a tiger is too different from a bear. But then I'd also say that under the same basis, a Humanoid could use Disguise Self to make themselves look like a type of Outsider that cleaves fairly close to the humanoid shape