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Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2010-02-13, 02:44 AM
I'm looking for some broad-based advice regarding a problem I've been tangling with in regards to a project of mine. The issue, in short, is the best way to deliver setting material to players in a way that fulfills several goals, as follows:


Maintain player interest
Integrate setting material into overall mechanics
Provide material for both players and GMs
Deliver an intuitive in-universe 'feel' of the culture or area described


As a caveat, the following comments are not meant as a criticism of any particular system or book.

In my experience, the majority of setting materials at some point fail to fulfill goal one- their verbosity and dedication to describing each of the sub-districts of the area's capital city tend to mean that information is used and absorbed piecemeal by all but the most dedicated reader. Historical timelines, relatively dry recitations of quirks in governance- these are things I want to avoid. Three or more pages, with sidebar, is positively novel-length by the standards of most players. In addition, this material is likely to be of more interest to GMs, who may then adopt it at the expense of their own creations, to my mind, a flaw.

The second goal is, if anything, even trickier; much of the time, if mechanics for regional benefits are provided, these mechanics are the only things a player will read. A few short, pithy adjectives might manage to have meaningful mechanical counterparts, but most aspects of culture have little place even in less combat-focused systems.
However; it should not be assumed that culture requires mechanics- it doesn't. But things players should know are best served if they are also things they want to know- in other words, setting material needs to send either a signal of cost- as in Houses of The Blooded, where 'bad form' will cost a player dearly- or a reward signal, as in D&D, where origins can grant bonus feats etc.; this is what I refer to as integration, the granting of importance to setting material even to those for whom it is not inherently fascinating.

The goal of providing information for both players and DMs is better served by most existing material- almost every region entry in any system contains a note on adventures or plots within. I have little to say on the subject.

The last goal, an intuitive feel for a culture, is the hardest to quantify as a particular technique; the obvious solution of in-universe material could very well be a trap, wherein too much is implied and not enough is stated. On the other hand, too much distance does not allow players to get at the background assumptions and early influences of their characters.

As to my solutions; at present, region entries for my project consist of the following:

Two pieces of in-universe short fiction, each less than a page; one descriptive of the culture, one from a member thereof.
A section of 'Quirks', serving both as guidelines for how characters from a place or culture behave and look, and also, mechanically, as 'habits' in Burning Wheel.
A section of Hooks, as is usual- adventure sites, instigating persons, or instigating events typical to the setting.


Ladies and gents, I await your input with interest.

Splendor
2010-02-13, 04:16 AM
I think setting fail because of the DM and PCs not the setting.
Forgotten realms, for example, has specific regions but PCs mostly take them based on feat benefits or 1st level equipment. They don't take them for roleplaying.

Again there are spells in forgotten realms that should only be accessible through role-playing or regional requirements, but PCs just get to choose 2 spells as they level so they can feel free to pick these.

Much of third edition lacks the deep detail 2nd edition did. Compare volo's guide to waterdeep (AD&D) with the 3.5 Waterdeep book. The third edition book is a brief glimpse of water deep and then feats, spells and magical items. Volo's guide tells you what's on each street and little stories about different shops and venues.

Forgotten realms has 27 books in third edition. AD&D Forgotten realms had over 111 books/adventures plus the countless novels based there to draw from.

And when a PC tries to role-play a specific attitude from a region others who aren’t role-playing get annoyed and think your being disruptive. Which also can happen. But if you are playing a purple dragon knight you really shouldn’t get along with the character who is in the red wizard prestige class.

I think they tried to add detail to Eberron when it started but the later books were less about story. In fact some of the later books had prestige classes the highest level people in the region would have a problem getting into.

The best bet if your group is trying to create a world is let them choose a person from a country/city/region to play. Let them write it from there characters point of view and reward them for the history. Create a spread sheet of basic info you want about the country (and limitations) example: Import/export; outlook of average citizens on non-humans, humanoids, other races, magic; nations they are allies with or enemies with.
Let the character make their setting even if they steal that location from another game setting.

And when they are done, you edit their region and add additional information to it (while they might think it’s the best, it probably isn’t).

Asking online people to make a region for PCs is just as bad as taking it from a book, your PCs won’t have any more interest in it.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2010-02-13, 05:34 AM
I'm not so much inquiring why any particular setting might fail in any given game, I'm asking what the most effective way to present information about a setting is- the most usable methodology.

As a rebuttal:

Quite frankly, what is on every street, the owner of every shop, etc., is absolutely irrelevant. I shudder to consider the situations in which such a thing would be of import to a player character- and as player characters are the reason the game exists, any considerations of the 'objective reality' of the setting are less than essential. That kind of completist attitude is part of the problem I'm attempting to combat.

In addition, no attitude typical to a region should be disruptive. If the party is suffering from 'Role-playing', then that particular behavior, in-character or not, is not a legitimate part of the game, full stop.

I am not asking how to create a world; I am asking what information is essential to presenting a world already created in an interesting, concise, and useful way.

I have a sneaking suspicion, and by that I mean an iron certainty, that import/export doesn't come into it, largely because I have no interest in running a game centered around, for instance, dodging tariffs on fruit.

I shall take your remarks regarding spread-sheets to be your input with regard to presentation, which is the subject at hand.

Narazil
2010-02-13, 05:45 AM
Presenting it before a campaign start, or during actual playing?

Make sure to keep the world 'alive'. Have news travel, make sure the players know the King of Neighbouring Country has fallen ill - not because you want them to act on it, but because it keeps the world dynamic.

Have the characters' friends change - be promoted, demoted, find a girlfriend, get married, things that have no real influence on the campaign.

Have the players encounter/see/meet foreigners, if for no other reason, then to introduce them to foreign cultures. Have the merchant be from the east, or the priest of Knowledge be from the cold norths. Give him a bit of story to make it believable, and be ready to explain from his point of view should the players ask.

During a game, music helps. Keep some background music running which fits the current area - Gregorian chants for a religious city, shady/dark music for a shady/dark place, ect.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2010-02-13, 05:49 AM
Within the text of an entirely new system; the setting chapter, as it were.

What makes it pop off the page- prevents someone from skipping over it?
What makes it useful in creating a character?
What makes it useful in creating an adventure?
What can be omitted without qualm?

Your note regarding dynamism is well-taken.

bosssmiley
2010-02-13, 09:29 AM
Show don't tell
Make the first thing the first thing
Brevity, brevity, brevity
Rule of 7 (+/-2)

If you have a city/area/culture which is (in)famous for a particular thing then talk about that first and foremost. Just as guidebooks to Egypt always have the pyramids (or maybe Karnak, or the Abu Simbel temple) on the cover, so should you introduce new elements by what is most specific and characteristic of them.

Keep the discussion short and sweet, with a short flavour quote if you have a knack for such aphorism. Then explain the mechanical aspect briefly and clearly. That introduces newbies to the world and shows them a game-level reason why they should care about aspect A, B or C thereof (incentivisation; it works b*****s! (http://xkcd.com/54/)).

You can do this from something as small as a culture-specific weapon, all the way up to the courtly customs of a society, or the archetypal behaviour of a particular race/culture.

Much as I hate to say it WOTC Magic and 4E power cards are a good model for this kind of thing. Traveller/DPG materials used to do similar with their task system (each boxout had all the mechanics you needed to perform [foo] task laid out in a minimalist fashion).

If a thing isn't unique to - or characteristic of - your setting, then handwave it.