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Runeclaw
2010-02-13, 02:33 PM
In looking up the stats of creatures that my Pathfinder Druid can summon, I noticed that almost all of them were listed in the Bestiary with the same attack bonus for their claws and bites, although there not listed as having Multiattack. Did Pathfinder make some sort of across-the-board to Primary/Secondary natural weapons - or did that just designate a lot of creatures as having two primary weapons? I assume this means that when I wildshape into one of these forms I get all three attacks at full bonus?

Tiktakkat
2010-02-13, 03:26 PM
Yes.
They made an across the board revision to which natural weapons are treated as primary and which as secondary. If a creature has multiple primary natural weapons, it gets to use them all at its full BAB during a full attack, as well as full Strength modifier to damage.

Tinydwarfman
2010-02-13, 03:27 PM
In looking up the stats of creatures that my Pathfinder Druid can summon, I noticed that almost all of them were listed in the Bestiary with the same attack bonus for their claws and bites, although there not listed as having Multiattack. Did Pathfinder make some sort of across-the-board to Primary/Secondary natural weapons - or did that just designate a lot of creatures as having two primary weapons? I assume this means that when I wildshape into one of these forms I get all three attacks at full bonus?

Um, I don't think wildshape works that way in Pathfinder. You don't actually change into an animal anymore, you just get bonuses, and some special abilities of the creature. Druid is no longer OMGWTFWBBQ overpowering.

Greenish
2010-02-13, 03:36 PM
Um, I don't think wildshape works that way in Pathfinder. You don't actually change into an animal anymore, you just get bonuses, and some special abilities of the creature. Druid is no longer OMGWTFWBBQ overpowering.What, it's no longer full caster?

Tinydwarfman
2010-02-13, 03:42 PM
Well it did get it's spells per day knocked down by one, but otherwise yes, it it still a full caster. The druid spell list is not that amazing in core though. Animal companions also got debuffed slightly. (no riding dog, ect.)

Runeclaw
2010-02-13, 08:27 PM
Um, I don't think wildshape works that way in Pathfinder. You don't actually change into an animal anymore, you just get bonuses, and some special abilities of the creature. Druid is no longer OMGWTFWBBQ overpowering.

Yes, but one of the things that you do get is the natural weapons.

Tinydwarfman
2010-02-13, 08:34 PM
Yes, but one of the things that you do get is the natural weapons.

You do?

Beast Shape I

School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 3

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)

Range personal

Target you

Duration 1 min./level (D)

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.

Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

I guess 'assume the form' could be taken to mean that, but even so, you'd still have your crappy BAB and Str...

Runeclaw
2010-02-13, 08:37 PM
They made an across the board revision to which natural weapons are treated as primary and which as secondary. If a creature has multiple primary natural weapons, it gets to use them all at its full BAB during a full attack, as well as full Strength modifier to damage.

Neat, ok, I found the chart on p. 302, so pretty much only tails, hoofs, tentacles, pincers and wings and secondaries. So the standard claw/claw/bite routine is all primary.

Neat.

tyckspoon
2010-02-14, 12:47 AM
You do?

I guess 'assume the form' could be taken to mean that, but even so, you'd still have your crappy BAB and Str...

It's part of the general [Polymorph] type rules in Pathfinder, the same way Wildshape referred you to Alter Self in 3.5. Said [Polymorph] rules also state that any continuous effect non-activated magic items you wear still work even if they meld into you, so you don't have to worry about what happens to your Str/Con/Wis booster when you wildshape ('tho Paizo did kinda kick MAD characters in the head a bit here- all the physical stat boosters are belts in Pathfinder, all the mental ones are headbands, and they kept the 1.5x surcharge for combining items.)

Turning into a tiger or a dinosaur or a bear and ripping some schmuck's face off still works in Pathfinder, and it'll still get you more attacks earlier and access to monster special abilities like Grab and Pounce that the other melee classes just don't get to play with (insult on injury: all the Polymorph replacement spells are Personal, so you can't turn the Fighter into a treant or a giant ape or something anymore.) It just requires some more character resources if you want to really be good at it, unlike 3.5's stat replacement giving to you completely free.