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View Full Version : What Should A Monk Have To Give Up To Gain Spellcasting?



Lysander
2010-02-13, 06:16 PM
I have an idea for a new class: the Spell Monk. Their monastic order believes there is harmony and beauty in the laws of magic, and they mix martial arts training alongside arcane studies.

The major gimmick of the class would be that instead of stunning fist the Spell Monks would be able to use punches to deliver touch spells. They'd be spontaneous spellcasters like sorcerers, with arcane spell slots from 0 to 9, but they'd only be able to learn offensive touch spells. No buffs, no utility spells, just punches and deadly magic. To cast a spell they'd spend a standard action on a single unarmed attack, declaring what spell they want to cast before making an attack roll. If the punch touches the target (whether or not it deals damage) then the spell is cast, allowing any saving throw or SR that particular spell allows. It wouldn't just be damaging spells like Shocking Grasp, a high level Spell Monk could use punches to cast spells like Imprisonment. I'm also considering allowing them to cast ranged spells as touch spells, like Flesh to Stone or Disintegrate.

My question is: assuming spells per day/spells known like a Sorcerer, but with the limitation of only giving them purely offensive magic that must be delivered at touch range, what normal monk features should be taken away from Spell Monks? Monks are considered underpowered, but gaining all this magic would overpower them if I don't take something away. At the same time I want to keep this a class that can survive in the middle of melee combat, not a fragile spellcaster that needs to hide behind a meat shield. Giving them fewer spells per day/spells known than a sorcerer is an option, I'm just throwing it out there as a starting point.

Kurald Galain
2010-02-13, 06:17 PM
How about basing it on the Duskblade class, only using bare hands rather than a melee weapon?

Eldariel
2010-02-13, 06:29 PM
Isn't Sacred Fist/Enlightened Fist pretty much exactly this? Well, Sacred Fist since Enlightened Fist sucks. To answer your question, not much. Maybe the bonus feats. Flurry is considerable too, though at that point you've pretty much cut away all the worthwhile Monk class features already, so I'd leave it there if only just because.

Also, you obviously gotta cut into the spellcasting since otherwise you're creating a strictly better Sorcerer. Maybe give 'em Battle Sorcerer casting, or slightly less limits on Spells Known. And if you cast off Cha, make the Monk-abilities based off Cha too; there's Ascetic Monk, but no point in Feat Taxing there.

Solaris
2010-02-13, 06:30 PM
I always liked the notion of psionic monks.

Overshee
2010-02-13, 06:32 PM
Personally I like the PsyWar+Tashalatora route.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-13, 06:41 PM
You could give him full spellcasting, Fighter BAB, and d20 HD and he probably wouldn't even be overpowered, as long as you don't give him a familiar.
A Monk 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Enlightened Fist 5/ Master of the East Wind 10 gets 16/20 Monk abilities and 18/20 Sorcerer spellcasting, and can use a daily Stunning Fist attempt to cast and deliver a touch spell as part of a full attack. You can get the feat Ascetic Mage at level 6 to switch your AC bonus to Cha instead of Wis.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-13, 06:56 PM
My question is: assuming spells per day/spells known like a Sorcerer, but with the limitation of only giving them purely offensive magic that must be delivered at touch range, what normal monk features should be taken away from Spell Monks? Monks are considered underpowered, but gaining all this magic would overpower them if I don't take something away. At the same time I want to keep this a class that can survive in the middle of melee combat, not a fragile spellcaster that needs to hide behind a meat shield. Giving them fewer spells per day/spells known than a sorcerer is an option, I'm just throwing it out there as a starting point.

Fewer spells/day than Sorceror (Bard per day). I say take away perform as a class skill. Flurry of blows. The 6th bonus feat as well.

I say take over Perfect form at 20 as well (just because).

horseboy
2010-02-13, 07:12 PM
I don't know, I'd almost go the other way and allow either only self buffs and give them access to stuff like spider climb a per round flight spell and what not or go only touch destruction spells. That way you can have opposing schools who's teachers are killed and they have to swear revenge.

Mando Knight
2010-02-13, 07:14 PM
I say take away perform as a class skill.

Right... because everyone knows that Perform is an overpowered skill even without Bard levels...

Magnor Criol
2010-02-13, 07:17 PM
Maybe give 'em Battle Sorcerer casting, or slightly less limits on Spells Known. And if you cast off Cha, make the Monk-abilities based off Cha too; there's Ascetic Monk, but no point in Feat Taxing there.

This. Use the Battle Sorc spellcasting (it makes since, since, well, they'll be a battle sorcerer...) and base the remaining Monk abilities off Cha.

I don't know how to implement this, but I could see an interesting high-level class ability that mimics Flurry of Blows and allows you to deliver multiple spells with the attack.

Myou
2010-02-13, 07:19 PM
It's class levels, on a one for one basis. :smalltongue: