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LOTRfan
2010-02-13, 10:46 PM
Sorry if it is already mentioned in some source book, but is it possible to have both the native subtype and a racial subtype (like Obyrith, and Baatezu)? For example, if I create a Half-Fiendish creature, and I want to show it is obviously Tanar'ri in origin, can I give it both the Tanar'ri and the Native subtype and not break the core rules?

Splendor
2010-02-13, 11:02 PM
A Dretch is a small outsider with the subtypes: Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil, Tanar'ri.

So yes you could have a 1/2 fiendish creature which would be a outsider with the subtypes: Native and Tanar'ri.

A Dretch could even take the feat Naturalized Denizen and lose the Extraplanar subtype. (UA pg 94)

KillianHawkeye
2010-02-14, 06:37 AM
I don't think there are any native outsiders that have the Tanar'ri subtype, nor is there any way I know of to give the Tanar'ri subtype to an existing outsider (native or otherwise). However, since extraplanar outsiders only carry that tag while on a foreign plane, and they exchange it for the native subtype whenever they're on their home plane, it's technically possible to possess the native and Tanar'ri subtypes at the same time.

I suppose you could just slap the Tanar'ri subtype on any old half-fiend if you wanted, but doing so would have the following effects: gain immunity to electricity and poison; gain resist 10 to acid, cold, and fire; the ability to summon others of its kind; and telepathy. Half-fiends don't have an existing summon ability, so it either wouldn't gain anything or your DM would have to make something up (probably some low-level demon like a quasit with a very low % chance). Likewise, half-fiends are already immune to poison and already resist acid, cold, and fire, but the electricity immunity is still a substantial gain. And you'd also get telepathy (range is typically 100 feet).

It wouldn't be game breaking to make these adjustments, especially if you're the DM. It probably wouldn't even change the CR unless your players overuse lightning bolts. If you're the player, you might get a generous DM to okay it without increasing the LA, but I kinda doubt it. Electricity immunity and telepathy are way more useful to PCs than monsters.

Gorbash
2010-02-14, 06:42 AM
Sorry if it is already mentioned in some source book, but is it possible to have both the native subtype and a racial subtype (like Obyrith, and Baatezu)? For example, if I create a Half-Fiendish creature, and I want to show it is obviously Tanar'ri in origin, can I give it both the Tanar'ri and the Native subtype and not break the core rules?

You could just make it a special kind of half-fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a).

Yora
2010-02-14, 06:58 AM
Native is an unusual subtype, as you get it or lose it depending on what plane you are. A creature gets the native subtype if it is on it's own home plane, which means that all magic that returns it to its home plane will automatically fail. Outsiders listed with the native subtype are those whose home plane is the prime material plane. If you're in the abyss, every tanar'ri gets the native subtype. And if you're a planetouched on an outer plane, you get the extraplanar subtype.

AslanCross
2010-02-14, 07:33 AM
The Outsider subtypes are loaded, as posted above. Baatezu, Tanar'ri, Angel, Archon, Obyrith and Yugoloth all have unique abilities. You could just say the creature in question is descended from one.

Strangely enough, Guardinal and Eladrin aren't subtypes.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-02-14, 09:17 AM
Native is an unusual subtype, as you get it or lose it depending on what plane you are. A creature gets the native subtype if it is on it's own home plane, which means that all magic that returns it to its home plane will automatically fail.

I somehow doubt that, because that would mean that demons in the Abyss have to eat and sleep and can be raised. "Loses the (extraplanar) subtype" does not equate to "gains the (native) subtype".


And if you're a planetouched on an outer plane, you get the extraplanar subtype.

Same thing if you're a human material plane native. Or an elan. Or a dog.

Yuki Akuma
2010-02-14, 09:31 AM
Native is an unusual subtype, as you get it or lose it depending on what plane you are. A creature gets the native subtype if it is on it's own home plane, which means that all magic that returns it to its home plane will automatically fail. Outsiders listed with the native subtype are those whose home plane is the prime material plane. If you're in the abyss, every tanar'ri gets the native subtype. And if you're a planetouched on an outer plane, you get the extraplanar subtype.

An Outsider (Native) is an Outsider that's native to the Material Plane only. Outsider (Natives) are mortals who are descended from Outsiders. Alternatively, they're mortals who turned into Outsiders due to class abilities. They're still mortal, and need to eat, sleep and breathe, and can be raised from the dead because their body and soul are separate things.

If you're on another pane, you're (Extraplanar), and can be banished. If you're on your home plane, you're not (Extraplanar) and can't be banished.

A planetouched in the Abyss is an Outsider (Native, Extraplanar).

AslanCross
2010-02-14, 04:00 PM
The exception is the Rakshasa, which is native due to prolonged proliferation on the Material Plane. They're still living masses of evil.

Yuki Akuma
2010-02-15, 08:49 AM
There is always an exception that proves the rule.

hamishspence
2010-02-15, 10:02 AM
Do rakshasa's even have the Evil subtype?

"living masses of evil" may be an overstatement.

Especially given that there is at least one type of fiend (extraplanar, outsider type, evil subtype) whose alignment is "90% are evil, 10% are Neutral or Good"- the cambion, from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

Though this might be because they have some mortal blood.