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Xenogears
2010-02-14, 08:03 PM
The thread title pretty much says it all. So is there any way to make a Cha-based Psionic healer/buffer type character?

Milskidasith
2010-02-14, 08:09 PM
I don't think so, seeing as most of the allied healing spells are ardent only. I could be wrong, though; they weren't that impressive anyway.

Draz74
2010-02-14, 08:17 PM
Well, you can always go Wilder and just use feats or cheese (or, for that matter, extra feats achieved by means of cheese) to add whatever healing and buffing powers you want. Without cheese, though, this won't end up being very powerful. But it might get you by, especially if you don't care about doing anything except buffing and healing.

Other than that, I think you're stuck with refluffing something. You could refluff the "Charisma-based" part and just play a Psion with pretty good charisma, maybe with some other Charisma-based abilities (Imperious Command?)

Or you could make a very interesting build by refluffing the "psionic" part: Dip a level or three in Wilder, but then go mostly for levels in Incarnate. Buff and heal using your Incarnum abilities. Your psionic level(s) will still remain significant forever, though, thanks to the totally awesome Psycarnum Infusion feat, which uses your psionic abilities to give you huge (if temporary) bonuses to your Essentia Pool.

Claudius Maximus
2010-02-14, 08:30 PM
Sangehirn? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c) Maybe on a Wilder base.

Pluto
2010-02-14, 08:34 PM
Wilder with Vigor and Expanded Knowedge (Empathetic Transfer).
Done.

Maybe PrC into Sangehirn.

Edit:
Buffing with a Psion is hard.
Most powers can only affect the manifester.
Divine Mind is the closest thing that comes to mind*.
It's in Complete Psionic and is notoriously terrible in both fluff and mechanics.

(*I'm having a tip-of-the-tongue moment for a PrC that transfers some Personal range powers outward. I can't remember if it was WotC, homebrew or Hyperconscious.)

Nate the Snake
2010-02-14, 09:56 PM
(*I'm having a tip-of-the-tongue moment for a PrC that transfers some Personal range powers outward. I can't remember if it was WotC, homebrew or Hyperconscious.)

The aforementioned Sangehirn is probably what you're thinking of.

Optimystik
2010-02-14, 10:33 PM
Sangehirn is 3 levels long - once you get Healing Touch, you can pick up the powers from its list from your base class (or another PrC even) and apply that ability to them. The fast healing and DR are nice, but not worth pigeonholing your character to such a narrow power list.

If you want a Wilder entry, use the Educated Wilder ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a), which provides a strong boost to your powers known.

If for some reason you want to go all the way through Sangehirn - there is no capstone, so I reiterate that this is a bad idea, but anyway - Erudite is a much better base, as you can continue to learn general and discipline psion powers on the side even as you learn the Sangehirn powers naturally. Your biggest problem, of course, will be keeping enough UPD free each day to heal your party.

Ardent is an even better choice - not just for the flavor synergy (psionic cleric, psionic healer) but their PK mechanic allows them to lose 4 ML and still have full powers known with Practiced Manifester. This allows you to take 3 levels of Sangehirn as above, then another PrC like Psion Uncarnate without losing any/many ML. (Better yet, go Dominant Ideal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) - and make your own Mantle full of the best Sangehirn powers - now you can apply Metapsionics to your heals with ease.)

Psion Uncarnate is a good combination if you go with an Ardent Sangehirn, because you can flit about the battlefield while incorporeal and heal your party by touching them, without needing the defensive benefits of a full Sangehirn.

AstralFire
2010-02-15, 06:09 AM
Expanded Knowledge feats + Wilder = all you need.

The variant wilder is good but unnecessary.

Optimystik
2010-02-15, 06:52 AM
Expanded Knowledge feats + Wilder = all you need.

The variant wilder is good but unnecessary.

It may not be necessary, but you can't deny that Educated Wilders do shine vs. the regular ones. The variant gives you free Expanded Knowledges (which rock) instead of Volatile Mind (which sucks.) Trading in a poor class feature for a good one is always a bonus.

The best part is - you can still take additional Expanded Knowledges later if you want more powers. And if you PrC out of Wilder and come back to it later, you've delayed your EK and can now grab higher powers with it. It's win-win.

AstralFire
2010-02-15, 07:34 AM
It may not be necessary, but you can't deny that Educated Wilders do shine vs. the regular ones. The variant gives you free Expanded Knowledges (which rock) instead of Volatile Mind (which sucks.) Trading in a poor class feature for a good one is always a bonus.

The best part is - you can still take additional Expanded Knowledges later if you want more powers. And if you PrC out of Wilder and come back to it later, you've delayed your EK and can now grab higher powers with it. It's win-win.

I never would. I find it easier to get DMs to accept books rather than web material, though (especially variant classes - the assumption for many is that anything printed was balanced first!), which is why I said that.

Also, I always preferred my take on it anyway:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90718

Xenogears
2010-02-15, 10:45 AM
Thanks for the advice everyone.

Would someone mind pointing out some good healing/party buff powers to take if its not too much trouble.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-02-15, 10:53 AM
you could always do a drainer type...

Empathetic transfer
empathetic transfer, hostle
share pain
share pain, forced
vigor
Body adjustment

don't forget to pick up a psicrystal...


I would do wilder 6/Sangehirn

Draz74
2010-02-15, 10:58 AM
Would someone mind pointing out some good healing/party buff powers to take if its not too much trouble.

Mend Wounds (from Comp.Psi)
Psionic Restoration
Psionic Revivify

Optimystik
2010-02-15, 11:26 AM
I would do wilder 6/Sangehirn

How are you getting Heal as a class skill?

@OP: Is Cha-based a hard requirement? You'll have a much easier time doing this with an Ardent. Many of the mantles make your life as a healer easier (Life Mantle lets you manifest True Metabolism on your party members instead of just on yourself; Guardian Mantle lets you can take hits for your party members, etc.) You also have larger hit dice and are proficient in heavy armor and shields from the start. Ardents also have Heal as a class skill (getting you into Sangehirn at ECL 6) and best of all, the lost manifester level from Sangehirn 3 won't affect your powers known if you take Practiced Manifester, even if you pick up another PrC with less than 10/10 progression.

Psion Uncarnate is great for this - with Practiced Manifester you only lose 1 ML between the two PrCs, in exchange for being incorporeal all the time. Or you can just not take the capstone (limiting your incorporeality to 2/day) and lose no ML at all. They even have the same feat prerequisite.

My build would be something like: Ardent 6/Sangehirn 3/Psion Uncarnate 9-10/X +1-2.

Draz74
2010-02-15, 11:30 AM
(Life Mantle lets you manifest True Metabolism on your party members instead of just on yourself;

Doesn't that only work at Level 20? Or is it Manifester level 20?

RagnaroksChosen
2010-02-15, 11:39 AM
How are you getting Heal as a class skill?

@OP: Is Cha-based a hard requirement? You'll have a much easier time doing this with an Ardent. Many of the mantles make your life as a healer easier (Life Mantle lets you manifest True Metabolism on your party members instead of just on yourself; Guardian Mantle lets you can take hits for your party members, etc.) You also have larger hit dice and are proficient in heavy armor and shields from the start. Ardents also have Heal as a class skill (getting you into Sangehirn at ECL 6) and best of all, the lost manifester level from Sangehirn 3 won't affect your powers known if you take Practiced Manifester, even if you pick up another PrC with less than 10/10 progression.

Psion Uncarnate is great for this - with Practiced Manifester you only lose 1 ML between the two PrCs, in exchange for being incorporeal all the time. Or you can just not take the capstone (limiting your incorporeality to 2/day) and lose no ML at all. They even have the same feat prerequisite.

My build would be something like: Ardent 6/Sangehirn 3/Psion Uncarnate 9-10/X +1-2.



Woops forgot about that...

Then make it a human wilder 6/ Sangehirn x...
just take able learner...
ardent works too...
and i realy like the uncarnate idea.

Xenogears
2010-02-15, 02:23 PM
How are you getting Heal as a class skill?

@OP: Is Cha-based a hard requirement? You'll have a much easier time doing this with an Ardent. Many of the mantles make your life as a healer easier (Life Mantle lets you manifest True Metabolism on your party members instead of just on yourself; Guardian Mantle lets you can take hits for your party members, etc.) You also have larger hit dice and are proficient in heavy armor and shields from the start. Ardents also have Heal as a class skill (getting you into Sangehirn at ECL 6) and best of all, the lost manifester level from Sangehirn 3 won't affect your powers known if you take Practiced Manifester, even if you pick up another PrC with less than 10/10 progression.

Psion Uncarnate is great for this - with Practiced Manifester you only lose 1 ML between the two PrCs, in exchange for being incorporeal all the time. Or you can just not take the capstone (limiting your incorporeality to 2/day) and lose no ML at all. They even have the same feat prerequisite.

My build would be something like: Ardent 6/Sangehirn 3/Psion Uncarnate 9-10/X +1-2.

Yeah the Cha-based part is vital for the character concept. Also I was gonna have the LA+1 Ghost template from Ghostwalk so I already will be flying around incorpereal.