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lvl 1 sharnian
2010-02-14, 08:07 PM
I've been thinking and off the top of my head I can name Swiftblade, Master of the Unseen, and Initiate of the Seven Veils as all classes based on one spell, Haste, Telekinetic Something, and Prismatic Wall, respectively.

Does anyone know any other classes like this?

Milskidasith
2010-02-14, 08:11 PM
Force Missile Mage.

You get three guesses as to what it's based on. Your last two don't count.

drengnikrafe
2010-02-14, 08:12 PM
My impression of the Planar Shepperd is that it's based upon Plane Shift.

lvl 1 sharnian
2010-02-14, 08:14 PM
Force Missile Mage.

You get three guesses as to what it's based on. Your last two don't count.

I recall there being a spell somewhere called Force Missles... but this is magic missle right?

Starbuck_II
2010-02-14, 08:18 PM
Radiant Servant of Pelor based on curing spells (empowered, Maximized, then both).

Optimystik
2010-02-14, 08:34 PM
My impression of the Planar Shepperd is that it's based upon Plane Shift.

Actually, it's based around Planar Bubble (a spell from Planar Handbook.)

Pluto
2010-02-14, 08:48 PM
Shadowcraft Mage--__ Image
Thaumaturgist--Planar Ally
Malconvoker--Summon Monster/Planar Binding
Master Transmogrifist--Polymorph
Knight Phantom--Phantom Steed
Dread Witch--Fear
Wayfarer Guide--Teleport
Noctumancer--Dispel Magic
Master of Shrouds--Summon Undead
Alienist--Summon Monster

Thrallherd--Psionic Charm/Dominate
Constructer--Astral Construct
Body Leech--Cocoon
Ectopic Adept--Astral Construct

Mindspy--Detect Thoughts
Warshaper--Polymorph

Arcane Archer--Antimagic Field:smallwink:

herrhauptmann
2010-02-14, 09:09 PM
Knight Phantom--Phantom Steed
Dread Witch--Fear


Which two books are those in? Knight Phantom sounds pretty cool.

SaintRidley
2010-02-14, 09:10 PM
Mindbender - Charm/Dominate

lvl 1 sharnian
2010-02-14, 09:13 PM
Wow... now I feel like rolling up a character for each spell and make them the founders of magic for my next campaign.

Do any of those have epic progression?

Pluto
2010-02-14, 09:14 PM
Which two books are those in? Knight Phantom sounds pretty cool.

:smallredface:
Knight Phantom is in Five Nations (and the excerpt's here (http://www.google.com/search?q=knight+phantom&rls=com.microsoft:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1)). After looking it up, it doesn't have the one-spell focus that I thought it did.
[edits]

Dread Witch is in Heroes of Horror.

Nate the Snake
2010-02-14, 09:53 PM
Actually, it's based around Planar Bubble (a spell from Planar Handbook.)

Not really. It's more based around the "planar druid" concept, and Planar Bubble just happened to be thematically appropriate.

Then they added full casting, full animal companion and wild shape progression, and "Wild shape into outsiders with supernatural and spell-like abilities" to fill in dead levels. :smalltongue:

Beelzebub1111
2010-02-14, 09:55 PM
Which two books are those in? Knight Phantom sounds pretty cool.
Knight Phantom is a pretty decent Gish class. You loose two caster levels (one for a level in a class with proficiency in all martial weapons, and one at first level) and can enter at level 6 for a wizard, but you get full BAB progression, d8 hit die, Ignoring spell failure for light armor, a few rounds per day of blur and causing shaken status, a few rounds per day of ignoring any an dall terrain, and a capstone of giving you're weapon the brilliant energy quality 10 rounds per day. all-in-all not a horrible class.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-14, 10:12 PM
Knight Phantom does look pretty cool (even with the requirement to multiclass into fighter or something). I was hoping at first that it would be a PrC that would synergize greatly with swiftblade (except for lost casting levels), but a big part of Knightphantom is the whole turning ghostly. So you get a blur spell, can walk on water, and eventually a brilliant energy weapon.

Swiftblade's miss chances don't stack with Blur, Displacement or similar effects. Swiftblade already grants a method of walking on water, plus freedom of movement.

Getting the best of swiftblade means you can't get the best of phantom, and vice versa.
You could split them up evenly, which will get you a lot of good from swiftblade, but that will unfortunately, overshadow most of what you get out of phantom. Though the light armor and free uses of Phantom Steed for you and the party are still pretty nice.

Milskidasith
2010-02-14, 10:52 PM
Not really. It's more based around the "planar druid" concept, and Planar Bubble just happened to be thematically appropriate.

Then they added full casting, full animal companion and wild shape progression, and "Wild shape into outsiders with supernatural and spell-like abilities" to fill in dead levels. :smalltongue:

There are no dead levels in planar shepard. The only thing remotely close to "dead" about planar shepard is your enemies if your DM allows it, and you if you try to play it. You'll have so many books thrown at you it won't even be funny.

Optimystik
2010-02-14, 10:55 PM
Not really. It's more based around the "planar druid" concept, and Planar Bubble just happened to be thematically appropriate.

I was just pointing out that if it was indeed based on one spell, the bubble would be a better fit.

And we don't know that it wasn't anyway, given that Planar Handbook was published years before Faiths of Eberron.

Gorbash
2010-02-14, 10:58 PM
Knight Phantom does look pretty cool (even with the requirement to multiclass into fighter or something)

There are ways around that, you know. Being an outsider, for example - Tiefling/Aasimar/Genasi or taking the Otherwordly feat.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-14, 11:10 PM
There are ways around that, you know. Being an outsider, for example - Tiefling/Aasimar/Genasi or taking the Otherwordly feat.

I don't know the feat "Otherworldly" is it an Eberron specific one?
Also, I don't think that Genasi and aasimar automatically get free martial weapon profiencies. Maybe something which actually gets a Racial Hit Die of outsider. But most of those that I can think of have several RHD and a level adjustment.

Darrin
2010-02-14, 11:51 PM
I don't know the feat "Otherworldly" is it an Eberron specific one?


Forgotten Realms. It's in the Player's Guide to Faerun.



Also, I don't think that Genasi and aasimar automatically get free martial weapon profiencies. Maybe something which actually gets a Racial Hit Die of outsider. But most of those that I can think of have several RHD and a level adjustment.

By RAW, anything with the Outsider type has Outsider racial traits, which include:

"Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry."

Lesser Aasimar/Tieflings, Lesser Genasi, or other Lesser Planetouched (also mentioned in the Player's Guide to Faerun) have the humanoid type with an extraplanar subtype. They can regain their Outsider type by taking the Otherworldly feat, which would give them back all their martial weapon proficiencies. You can also use one of the online Savage Progression articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) to play a slightly weaker version of Aasimar or Tiefling without any LA and either delay or just not take their racial class level. These types of Aasimar/Tiefling are still full outsiders, and thus have all their martial weapon proficiencies.

You can also just play a Neraph from the Planar Handbook. Outsider type with no LA or racial HD.

Nate the Snake
2010-02-15, 01:01 AM
I was just pointing out that if it was indeed based on one spell, the bubble would be a better fit.

I figured as much after I missed the forest for the trees. :smallwink:


And we don't know that it wasn't anyway, given that Planar Handbook was published years before Faiths of Eberron.

Maybe it was, but I don't think that it's likely. Planar Bubble isn't a druid spell, so it would be a little odd for a druid PrC to focus on it.

Optimystik
2010-02-15, 01:14 AM
Maybe it was, but I don't think that it's likely. Planar Bubble isn't a druid spell, so it would be a little odd for a druid PrC to focus on it.

It's also a little odd for druids to wild shape into Outsiders, yet here we are.

(P.S. - the concept of a "Planar Druid" was also first explored in Planar Handbook - in 3.5, anyway.)

BenTheJester
2010-02-15, 02:02 AM
My impression of the Planar Shepperd is that it's based upon Plane Shift.

Planar Sheppard is based upon Create Food(Cheese), I think we can all agree on that.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-15, 09:41 PM
Forgotten Realms. It's in the Player's Guide to Faerun.
Lesser Aasimar/Tieflings, Lesser Genasi, or other Lesser Planetouched (also mentioned in the Player's Guide to Faerun) have the humanoid type with an extraplanar subtype. They can regain their Outsider type by taking the Otherworldly feat, which would give them back all their martial weapon proficiencies. You can also use one of the online Savage Progression articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) to play a slightly weaker version of Aasimar or Tiefling without any LA and either delay or just not take their racial class level. These types of Aasimar/Tiefling are still full outsiders, and thus have all their martial weapon proficiencies.
Gonna need to look up those regions and see what other restrictions there are for using the feat. Though I like how elves from Evermeet, and the Deep Imaskari race can qualify as outsiders as well.

I'll have to do the Savage Progression ones with a more experienced DM. Of the players/DMs I'm in contact with regularly, most aren't up on the rules enough to allow outsider type = martial weapon profiency.

Darrin
2010-02-15, 10:47 PM
Gonna need to look up those regions and see what other restrictions there are for using the feat. Though I like how elves from Evermeet, and the Deep Imaskari race can qualify as outsiders as well.


Most accomodating DMs handwave the regional requirements, but if not, the regional requirements can usually be satisfied by sinking a few skill points into "Knowledge (Local: Evermeet)" or whatever region you need. If your DM asks you about it, you say, "Yeah, I grew up there." "But we're not even playing in Faerun! How'd you get here?!?!" "Fell through a portal/accident with a herbal prophylactic and a plane shift spell/Dad was trying to freebase some yellow musk creeper with a candle of invocation/Well, uh, that's why mommy said we're not allowed to cast persistent shapechange in the house." "Oh." Anyway, it's kinda silly to nitpick too much about a particular regional upbringing with a feat that says, "Hey, I'm an extraplanar being, I come from a whole different plane of existence, babe."



I'll have to do the Savage Progression ones with a more experienced DM. Of the players/DMs I'm in contact with regularly, most aren't up on the rules enough to allow outsider type = martial weapon profiency.

The Savage Progression races are designed to be roughly the same level as other PC races. They're not setting-specifc, so they don't depend on FR-only material. They're online and 100% WotC material, and they don't require buying any particular book.

Otherwise, if you want to play an Outsider, Neraph works just fine. Their racial traits don't explicitly state they are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but the Outsider traits are spelled out pretty clearly in Core.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-16, 12:30 AM
The Savage Progression races are designed to be roughly the same level as other PC races. They're not setting-specifc, so they don't depend on FR-only material. They're online and 100% WotC material, and they don't require buying any particular book.

I know savage progression doesn't require a particular world. But using those so I can be an outsider, gaining free martial weapon profiencies (instead of the usual extraplanar Planetouched races) will be more difficult with a DM who doesn't have full knowledge of the game.
Most of the DM's I know in person don't even fully understand how to calculate CR of a fight, thank god they only use prepublished adventures. (A player stated, 3 level 15s characters are a CR 15 each, so the party is a match for a CR35 or better. And one of said DM's agreed with him)

Dr Bwaa
2010-02-16, 12:33 AM
Force Missile Mage.

You get three guesses as to what it's based on. Your last two don't count.

I'm so glad this was first. It was my first thought when I saw the thread title :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2010-02-16, 08:02 AM
Another thematic PrC is Spellwarp Sniper, though it focuses on a type of spell rather than one in particular.

Master of the Unseen Hand focuses on Telekinesis, but is ironically not much of a caster PrC.

Iot7FV is sort of focused around Prismatic Wall.

wormwood
2010-02-16, 08:28 AM
Forgotten Realms. It's in the Player's Guide to Faerun.



By RAW, anything with the Outsider type has Outsider racial traits, which include:

"Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry."

Lesser Aasimar/Tieflings, Lesser Genasi, or other Lesser Planetouched (also mentioned in the Player's Guide to Faerun) have the humanoid type with an extraplanar subtype. They can regain their Outsider type by taking the Otherworldly feat, which would give them back all their martial weapon proficiencies. You can also use one of the online Savage Progression articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) to play a slightly weaker version of Aasimar or Tiefling without any LA and either delay or just not take their racial class level. These types of Aasimar/Tiefling are still full outsiders, and thus have all their martial weapon proficiencies.

You can also just play a Neraph from the Planar Handbook. Outsider type with no LA or racial HD.

If you're using forgotten realms material, this is definitely the hard way to get martial weapon proficiency. Doesn't the Militia feat do exactly that without jumping through any hoops?

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-16, 12:44 PM
Knight Phantom is a pretty decent Gish class. You loose two caster levels (one for a level in a class with proficiency in all martial weapons, and one at first level) and can enter at level 6 for a wizard, but you get full BAB progression, d8 hit die, Ignoring spell failure for light armor, a few rounds per day of blur and causing shaken status, a few rounds per day of ignoring any an dall terrain, and a capstone of giving you're weapon the brilliant energy quality 10 rounds per day. all-in-all not a horrible class.

It's basically the Eldritch Knight with class features. This and Abjurant Champion annoy me because everyone freaks out the second you consider giving the Mystic Theurge some.

Also:
Abjurant Champion: Shield (but not Mage Armour).

Pechvarry
2010-02-16, 04:01 PM
It's basically the Eldritch Knight with class features. This and Abjurant Champion annoy me because everyone freaks out the second you consider giving the Mystic Theurge some.

Also:
Abjurant Champion: Shield (but not Mage Armour).

Except in the case of gish classes, you're usually losing something just by considering the builds.

I'd like to see a decent breakdown between a well-built gish and a well-built Batman. My guess is it'll amount to an almost entirely caster-based gish playing batman and never worrying about melee.

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-16, 04:04 PM
Except in the case of gish classes, you're usually losing something just by considering the builds.

I'd like to see a decent breakdown between a well-built gish and a well-built Batman. My guess is it'll amount to an almost entirely caster-based gish playing batman and never worrying about melee.

You're giving away a hell of a lot by playing a Mystic Theurge, far more than a Gish does.

If you've put the levels into Melee classes you have a tendency to go out of your way to melee, to justify the decision.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-16, 05:43 PM
I'd like to see a decent breakdown between a well-built gish and a well-built Batman. My guess is it'll amount to an almost entirely caster-based gish playing batman and never worrying about melee.
I'm with you on this. A great example is the swiftblade handbook.
It's a gish class, but most of the spells seem to be chosen to create Batman, not, as it's claimed to be, A caster who is also good at mixing it up in melee.

As far as Abjurant Champion, yeah it sucks mage armor doesn't work, but take Luminous Armor from BoED. There are methods to get around the stat damage from casting, but I don't know them.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-16, 05:48 PM
Question concerning luminious armor, IIRC it is a santified spell, how do you add it to your spell list?

Optimystik
2010-02-16, 05:53 PM
Question concerning luminious armor, IIRC it is a santified spell, how do you add it to your spell list?

What do you mean? Any character can cast Sanctified spells as long as they are Good. You don't even need a feat, and they are available to both arcane and divine casters.

EDIT: Prepared casters, anyway.

olentu
2010-02-16, 05:54 PM
Question concerning luminious armor, IIRC it is a santified spell, how do you add it to your spell list?

As far as I can recall sanctified spells and corrupt spells can be prepared and cast by any caster of the appropriate alignment who prepares spells.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-16, 05:59 PM
Oh thanks, ( I really never read the section on sanctified spells, mostly just know about the spell cause all the love Abjurant champions get).

herrhauptmann
2010-02-16, 09:31 PM
Oh thanks, ( I really never read the section on sanctified spells, mostly just know about the spell cause all the love Abjurant champions get).

I hear ya, I kept hearing the name, and spent a week looking for it. Eventually found it on a list of "exalted" spells, and finally though to check the BoED.
A shame about the con damage for casting though. But hey, makes a Greenstar adept that much better ;)

olentu
2010-02-16, 09:37 PM
I hear ya, I kept hearing the name, and spent a week looking for it. Eventually found it on a list of "exalted" spells, and finally though to check the BoED.
A shame about the con damage for casting though. But hey, makes a Greenstar adept that much better ;)

It is strength damage I believe.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-16, 09:59 PM
On Knight Phantom, isn't there also a Militia regional feat that just gives you proficiency with all martial weapons?

herrhauptmann
2010-02-16, 10:19 PM
It is strength damage I believe.

Could be. Anyway, the Greenstar adept becomes a construct at Level 10, so he's immune to stat damage anyway, isn't he?

Wiz3, focused specialist2, Greenstar 10, Abj champ 5

Akal Saris
2010-02-16, 11:55 PM
Or you could avoid 10 levels in green star adept and just hand the cleric a wand of lesser restoration twice a day...

olentu
2010-02-17, 01:25 AM
Could be. Anyway, the Greenstar adept becomes a construct at Level 10, so he's immune to stat damage anyway, isn't he?

Wiz3, focused specialist2, Greenstar 10, Abj champ 5

Of course the green star adept would still be immune after becoming a construct but I was not addressing the prestige class.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-17, 02:33 AM
Or you could avoid 10 levels in green star adept and just hand the cleric a wand of lesser restoration twice a day...

SHHH!!! I'm trying to find a case where Greenstar adept is a mechanically good class for reasons besides fluff.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-17, 02:44 AM
SHHH!!! I'm trying to find a case where Greenstar adept is a mechanically good class for reasons besides fluff.

Never gonna happen.


Trick the DM into making the BBEG one. Ta daa! now it has a use. It's making the final encounter much, much MUCH easier.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-17, 06:35 PM
Never gonna happen.


Trick the DM into making the BBEG one. Ta daa! now it has a use. It's making the final encounter much, much MUCH easier.

If he did that, I'd probably get stuck with the BBEG stealing my ancestral starmetal sword just so he could powder it and drink it.

deuxhero
2010-02-17, 06:55 PM
Also:
Abjurant Champion: Shield (but not Mage Armour).

Just ask the DM if you can get the spell as an abjuration, there is a chance he won't know it isn't, then proceed to ask what the hell they were thinking.