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ErrantX
2010-02-15, 11:37 AM
The old chat thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5965327) was getting crazy big, so we're starting a new one!

Current Contest is: Contest XXI: It's Only Natural (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163610)

Past Contests:
Contest XX: In the Shadows (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157490)
Contest XIX: Power is a Gish best served Bold! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152106)
Contest XVIII: Power Corrupts! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147394)
Contest XVII: Mono e Mono (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142095)
Contest XVI: Live and Die by the Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136489)
Contest XV: Where The Wyld Things Are (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131375)
Contest XIV: Hybrid Theory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126592)
Contest XIII: Music and Lyrics (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121195)
Contest XII: Can we Rebuild it? Yes we can! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116389)
Contest XI: Fallen, yet not Forgotten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111855)
Contest X: Draw, Partner! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108730)
Contest IX: It's Morphin' Time! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105490)
Contest VIII: Bow down to my Fist! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101782)
Contest VII: It's Elementary! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98294)
Contest VI: The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95505)
Contest V: Champion of the Common Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92606)
Contest IV: My Faith is Unswerving (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89760)
Contest III: We Band of Brothers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86443)
Contest II: Soul Power! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84454&highlight=Contest)
Contest I: Test My Sword, Meet Your End (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81990&highlight=Contest)

Picture Contests (by the Witchking)
Current Contest: TBA
Worth a Thousand Words II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125849)
Worth a Thousand Words 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6512299) - The Witchlamp by TSED

-X

Xallace
2010-02-15, 11:40 AM
Awesome, new chat thread. Break out the champagne!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-15, 11:43 AM
Awesome, new chat thread. Break out the champagne!

How many times do I have to poison your wine before you get the hint, Xallace? :smalltongue:

Anyway, let's break out the new contest! I'm rather psyched for it, after the epicness (it's a word now...deal with it) of the last contest.

ErrantX
2010-02-15, 01:25 PM
New contest is up, Mono e Mono (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142095)!

Pick a partner and duel to the death in the honor of the Valentine's Day spirit! You asked for pairs, didn't you? :belkar:

-X

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-15, 01:32 PM
New contest is up, Mono e Mono (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142095)!

Pick a partner and duel to the death in the honor of the Valentine's Day spirit! You asked for pairs, didn't you? :belkar:

-X

EPIC.

We win as a pair, I assume? Given the segment about working together on the classes?

ErrantX
2010-02-15, 01:33 PM
EPIC.

We win as a pair, I assume? Given the segment about working together on the classes?

Indeed sir, indeed. Entries will be voted on as pairs, and will win as pairs.

-X

Xallace
2010-02-15, 01:55 PM
Holy muthalovin' Pelor that's sweet. Time to find me a partner.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-15, 01:55 PM
Awesome!

So I suppose it'd be a good time to mention that I'm interested in finding a partner for this. Don't have any ideas as of yet, though.

Actually, I lied. I might. Maybe. Given the recent spate of Artificer PrCs, a pair of diametrically-opposed Artificer PrCs with all kinds of industrial espionage and the like could be entertaining.

But that's a very off-the-top-of-my-head kind of idea.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-15, 01:58 PM
Given the recent spate of Artificer PrCs...

Which I had absolutely nothing to do with... *wishes there were a "shifty-eyes" smiley*

ErrantX
2010-02-15, 02:12 PM
People should PM me when they've got pairs and such. I figured we'd do a first here for the contest and do paired entries. I'm glad people are into it. Also, since people seemed to want to do paired entries and having no way for eachother to actually share in the entry and both be able to edit it, I thought this was a good way to do it.

-X

Golden-Esque
2010-02-15, 02:29 PM
Ooh, ooh! I want a partner! I want a partner! I gotta hand it to you, Errantx. This is effin' BRILLIANT!

EDIT: I think what I'm going propose to whatever poor unfortunate soul partners up with me is open a series of GoogleDocs with them. If we set it so that we're both collaborators, we can each edit the two classes as we see fit before final publishing. Wouldn't want to bind you to any extra work, ErrantX. After all, it must take a lot of devotion to keep this whole show running ...

Mwuhahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha! :smallbiggrin:

DracoDei
2010-02-15, 02:35 PM
Golden-Esque: Well, since our original plans with Bhu were (probably quiet appropriately) torpedoed by the switch of theme from what we were expecting, I might be available for you, depending...

Golden-Esque
2010-02-15, 02:36 PM
I needz a partner to take part in my idea!

ErrantX
2010-02-15, 02:47 PM
Wouldn't want to bind you to any extra work, ErrantX. After all, it must take a lot of devotion to keep this whole show running ...

Mwuhahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha! :smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure if I'm being threatened, insulted, or hinted at for what you're doing here sir. Honest mystery :P

-X

Golden-Esque
2010-02-15, 02:53 PM
I'm not sure if I'm being threatened, insulted, or hinted at for what you're doing here sir. Honest mystery :P

-X

I'm hinting at one of several ideas I'd like to share with my partner (when I figure out whom I'm getting) for this contest. I mean honestly, why threaten or insult you? If you leave, then Djinn would end up taking over the contest, and then he'd truly be unbeatable :smallbiggrin:.

Zom B
2010-02-15, 03:20 PM
Have I impressed anybody enough with my past work that someone might want to pair up with me? This sounds interesting.

Anyways, PM me, por favor, if you'd like to.

Glimbur
2010-02-15, 03:54 PM
Throw me into the pool of people looking for a partner. I'm a fan of Incarnum and not terribly familiar with ToB, Binders, Shadowcasters, or Truenamers... which means I'm more interested in the systems I'm not familiar with.

Hyooz
2010-02-15, 03:57 PM
Thrice Dead Cat and I will be participating as partners in this contest.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-15, 04:27 PM
No partner yet. Also not sure I'll be participating in this contest since already working on a lot of homebrew stuff and have real work. If someone wants to partner with me I'll be up for it though.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-15, 04:33 PM
If you leave, then Djinn would end up taking over the contest, and then he'd truly be unbeatable :smallbiggrin:.

Admittedly, I'd probably end up taking over. That would, however, mean the end of my amateur status, and thus the end of my competitive days. :smallfrown:

So I'm all for keeping ErrantX around. :smalltongue:

Also, Lord_Gareth and Djinn_in_Tonic will be teaming up for this contest. I still have to talk to him to verify he'll agree to this...but consider the partnership already set it stone. :smallbiggrin:

ErrantX
2010-02-15, 04:38 PM
I'm wanted! I'm really, truly wanted! Yay! :D

That being said, let's all be surprised that Djinn and Gareth will be teaming up. That's the team to beat folks, it really is. That being said, anyone who has concepts that want to bring by me as far as ideas and such, or feedback on this contest let me know. PM me or ask me here, and I will let you know!

-X

Xzoltar
2010-02-15, 05:07 PM
The idea of making a Team Contest is a good idea, because even if people like Lord_Gareth and Djinn_in_Tonic are good alone when homebrewing, they dont necessary work well together, so other still have a chance, I hope people will participate in masse. Good luck to all Teams

Im pretty sure my homebrew skills as well as my knowledge of english won't be enough to participate, but I have few concept idea in mind, can I put them here so that if someone want it can take it ?

DaTedinator
2010-02-15, 05:25 PM
Vaynor and I are working together. Just thought I'd declare it. :smalltongue:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-15, 05:42 PM
...because even if people like Lord_Gareth and Djinn_in_Tonic are good alone when homebrewing, they don't necessary work well together...

*cue mild moment of egotistical...ness? What would that word even be?*

You'd all like to think that, wouldn't you? :smalltongue:

*Back to the traditional, more humble Djinn*

I would agree though...Gareth and I are notorious for never finishing anything we start, and the team aspect will, I'm sure, bring out some amazing works from people.


I hope people will participate in masse. Good luck to all Teams!

Agreed on both counts!


I'm pretty sure my homebrew skills as well as my knowledge of english won't be enough to participate, but I have few concept idea in mind, can I put them here so that if someone want it can take it ?

Sure! Feel free to drop ideas, critique, criticism, or anything you want! Also, don't worry about your skills or grasp of the language...your writing is comprehensible (which is what really matters), and we're a friendly bunch ready and willing to help you craft a better class, even if you are the competition! :smallbiggrin:

Vaynor
2010-02-15, 05:48 PM
I would agree though...Gareth and I are notorious for never finishing anything we start, and the team aspect will, I'm sure, bring out some amazing works from people.

Yeah, having someone to bounce ideas off of will really help I think, I foresee a lot of really great entries.

Xzoltar
2010-02-15, 05:50 PM
Thanks Djinn, I will probably join in a later contest that dont involved teaming with somebody else. but to help other team here some idea I have in mind but won't use, so feel free to use them.

Raw idea with no real fluff or details on ability, but the concept is there :

- Artificer that promote the use of magic item and can boost them or ven create them on the fly or summon them. They are opposed by a organisation that think magical item corrupt the body and so use Incarnum (but that show as item on the body and not magical alteration from mystical creature) instead of magical item and even goes around the world to destroy magical items.

- Organisation that oppose any divine magic user and outsider that serve gods. They hunt them and kill them the same way Mageslayer kill Arcane Spellcaster. They are opposed by a organisation that think the salute of man come by the workship of gods, not one god in particular but any god. They gain god-like power and can boost other Divine Spellcaster.

- Organisation of Jack-of-all-Trade composed of Factotum and Chameleon that are opposed by a organisation that promote the perfection of self in one domain of expertise trying to be as strong as possible in their field of work (think Archmage, Examplar, Hierophant...)

- Cult of Binder that forged different Pact and try to give life back to the source of their power and opposed by a Cult dedicated to the destruction of the energy that compose the differents Vestige.

- Cabal of Illumian and Truenamer that want to find the Ultimate word to make all of us god. They are opposed by a Cabal that want to find the Ultimate word that will destroy the Prime.

Kellus
2010-02-15, 06:29 PM
Wow, this looks pretty cool. Anyone interested in pairing up with me?

Owrtho
2010-02-15, 08:21 PM
I'd be interested in taking part in this. And since it's right above, I'd be willing to partner with you Kellus (hooray for convenience).

Owrtho

Latronis
2010-02-15, 08:57 PM
No immediate ideas, except for some reason rivalry and the valentines reference brought to mind the old maxim Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

KaganMonk
2010-02-15, 10:50 PM
DragoonWraith, I also enjoy the artificers you dug up. I'd be interested in helping you out. What you said touched off the idea of counter-espionage for me.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-15, 10:53 PM
Heh, now I have to think of another Artificer PrC? I realized soon after that post that this would be the major problem for me with that idea.

Still, if you've got thoughts, we should talk. Hmm. My inbox is very nearly full and I don't really want to go through it, why don't you e-mail me? It's my username at gmail.com (haha spambots, try to get that!).

FlamingKobold
2010-02-15, 11:20 PM
Interested, but I have no partner... I have several ideas though, so PM me if you want to hear them and possibly work together.

Xallace
2010-02-16, 07:29 AM
I think it's safe to say that Golden-Esque and I are officially working together on this one.

Get out your socks, because they're about to be rocked. :smalltongue:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-16, 07:38 AM
I think it's safe to say that Golden-Esque and I are officially working together on this one.

Get out your socks, because they're about to be rocked. :smalltongue:

*Gets out socks*

*Puts on socks*

*Prepares to be rocked*

Golden-Esque
2010-02-16, 08:00 AM
*Gets out socks*

*Puts on socks*

*Prepares to be rocked*

DELAY POISON!!!!!

EDIT: Don't cha mean 'sock', since, ya'know, Djinn are kinda lacking in the ... well ... feet department? And doesn't the tonic make the socks kinda wet? I hate wet socks ....

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-16, 08:24 AM
DELAY POISON!!!!!

EDIT: Don't cha mean 'sock', since, ya'know, Djinn are kinda lacking in the ... well ... feet department? And doesn't the tonic make the socks kinda wet? I hate wet socks ....

Actually, I wear three socks...one on my tail-ish thing, and two on my hands. It's a pain, since I always have one extra sock that I can't use for anything, but what can a Djinn do?

Also, the wetness does suck, but the tingly bubbly feeling more than makes up for it. It's delightful!

Xallace
2010-02-16, 11:04 AM
Actually, I wear three socks...one on my tail-ish thing, and two on my hands. It's a pain, since I always have one extra sock that I can't use for anything, but what can a Djinn do?

"And sometimes I wear this little sock on me ghostly tail." -The Flying Dutchman

:smallbiggrin:

You buy two more socks, ball them up, and put them in the remaining sock. Now you have a makeshift flail that can also be an improvised ranged weapon. You know. In pillow fights.

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-16, 01:40 PM
I'm here - and I'm partnered with Djinn. I'll be back with some ideas momentarily!

ErrantX
2010-02-16, 02:01 PM
So does anyone have any ideas to post about what they're doing with their partner?

-X

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-16, 02:06 PM
Here's one:

The Harbingers of Eternity want nothing less than to save the world(s). Megalomaniacal villains, plane-shattering catastrophes, ancient prophecies, omnicidal deities - these are the kinds of things they deal with on a daily basis, throwing themselves between the universe and utter annihilation because, damnit, someone has to. A deep schism has rent the organization in two, however; the dark and dour Adamants commit themselves to defending reality by any means necessary, using any and all resources at their disposal - even the infernal, the corrupt, and the twisted. The bright eyed, idealistic Messiahs, on the other hand, devote themselves to the highest standards of honor and ethics in the hopes that they leave behind a universe worth saving. Their infighting has started to hinder the organization; hopefully they can pull it together before it all hits the fan.

Hyooz
2010-02-16, 02:22 PM
Thrice Dead Cat and I are making classes which both have some investment in The Onyx Dream, a quasi-plane of sorts we developed for this project. Here's a preliminary write-up on the Dream.

The Onyx Dream: Its very existence is hotly debated among planar cosmologists. No one has been there, and anyone attempting to travel there through typical means simply arrives at the Plane of Shadows, and most planar travelers will simply insist it can't possibly exist. The idea of it seems ridiculous; spirits move nowhere near the Plane of Shadows under typical understandings, and even those who claim to have travelled there say that's what creates it.

The Onyx Dream is said to be a quasi-plane of sorts, created by ripples created in the Plane of Shadows formed by spirits passing through it. The Dream is thus little more than an echo of the Plane of Shadows, hence anyone trying to travel there ending up in the Plane of Shadows. The landscape is roughly that of the material plane, formed by the memories of passing spirits. Thus, a long-lost civilization may be seen in the Onyx Dream where it isn't on the Material Plane. Denizens of the dream are likewise echos of the spirits who have passed through. They can speak, but in broken phrases, of a knowledge based on what the creature held when he died. They don't move far from the location of their death, if at all, and the length of time the echo lasts is determined by the power they held in life. An ordinary farmer may only last a few years, but a mighty hero may very well last for centuries.

It is a colorless world, devoid of sound save the voices of the spirits. Its features are defined, but only barely, seeming like they could dissolve into vapor at any moment. The shadow of a shadow.

Glimbur
2010-02-16, 02:41 PM
I'm working with Spate.

Maybe the two posters should coordinate so they get back-to-back posts in the official thread and simply edit like madmen?

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-02-16, 02:59 PM
Well, I'm available for partnering up in this one, since this semester's homework load is much lighter than last's and I might actually get something done for it. In terms of ideas...well, I'm not set on anything in particular, so I'm open to whatever. I might throw up a few ideas later if I think of any.

Xzoltar
2010-02-16, 03:06 PM
I have put 5 ideas of concept (see my last post above) and if someone if interested in develloping one of these concept with me we can chat for the details on how we want to do this.

Im not that good in english, but will try my best to at least put something that will be readable. I have done some homebrew in the past but almost never in another language than French, so think I may end up writing in French and then doing the translation. Any help is more than welcome if ever someone is willing do team up. Im open to other concept as well if someone have other idea.

Zom B
2010-02-16, 03:31 PM
Raptor2213 may be helping me. We have a concept hammered out between the two of us but he might be short on free time. Fates willing, this project might get off the ground. If not, I'll see if someone else wants to take over if he needs to back out and is okay with that. Right now, we have a concept and the sketchings of both PrCs.

Owrtho
2010-02-16, 04:05 PM
Well, Kellus and I are working together. We've already got our basic idea decided, though I'll wait to mention what it is in case he'd rather keep everyone in the dark for now. That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone does for this contest. It seems it will be quite fun.
Hint: We aren't doing Fire vs. Ice or Sky vs. Ground
Owrtho

Golden-Esque
2010-02-16, 04:06 PM
Xallace and I are planning a bit of fun between Binders and Divine Spellcasters, since both parties hate each other in most cases. I REALLY want to spoil more of our concept beyond this, but I don't want to give away more then what my partner is ready to tell, so this little statement for everyone's favorite host, ErrantX, is all I'm gonna give away now :).

Xallace
2010-02-16, 04:29 PM
I'd say that's all I'm really willing to give at this point, just so there's no toe-stepping with other concepts.

There might be sneak peeks as we get closer to the big reveal, though. :smallwink:

Zom B
2010-02-16, 04:50 PM
I can tell you that what we have in the works are:
1) PrC primarily intended for Monks but works equally well for just about any martial class. The flavor of this class is on sacrificing your self for power.
2) Same as above, but the flavor of this class is on finding peace with your self for power.

The theme is Taoist and Cherokee Spiritualist methodology combined. How strange, you say.

Felyndiira
2010-02-16, 07:21 PM
I know that I'm a complete novice/noob at this (I have never entered something like this before), but I'd like to join as well. Not sure if anyone would want to destroy their chances of winning by working with me, though.

Kuzimu
2010-02-16, 08:18 PM
I'm not the BEST homebrewer in the world, but I don't completely suck. Message me if you would be willing to do something like this:

I'm thinking of two prestige classes, one of which emphasizes masculine, and one which emphasizes feminine values. I just thought it'd be fun to recreate a stereotypical gender war!

Thanks,
K

Forever Curious
2010-02-16, 08:33 PM
I have borberline no homebrew experience, but would appreciate being taken under someone's wing.

I have an idea for a Warlock PrC based on Eldritch (sp?) Blasts.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-16, 08:46 PM
Erm, posts in the Contest thread are supposed to be entries only. It would streamline things somewhat if you deleted that post (though, I have to admit, I did the same thing not so long ago).

Forever Curious
2010-02-16, 08:52 PM
Erm, posts in the Contest thread are supposed to be entries only. It would streamline things somewhat if you deleted that post (though, I have to admit, I did the same thing not so long ago).

My mistake. Post deleted.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-02-17, 02:19 AM
As of a few minutes ago, it looks like I'll be working with FlamingKobold on this one. I don't want to give our pairing away, so suffice to say they're going to exemplify the kind of devoted characters who pour hearts and souls into their work...just not necessarily their own. :smallbiggrin:

Golden-Esque
2010-02-17, 11:34 AM
I have a fresh Avatar that I made, and I'm positively giddy about the progress Xallace and I are making, so I thought I'd give this thread a well-deserved bump in addition to providing a small update.

Socks will no longer be rocked. They will simply explode in a cataclysmic upheaval of awesome ^_^.

Zom B
2010-02-17, 01:00 PM
All right, the Black Wolf Warrior and the White Wolf Ascendant are both shaping up nicely. I can guarantee you that at least one of these PrCs contains a game mechanic you have never seen before.

Glimbur
2010-02-17, 10:26 PM
Regarding
6) Entries must be your own work, and must not be copied for other places. Only new work may submitted; no previously posted work will be accepted. Such entries will be disqualified.

does this mean I cannot include homebrew martial disciplines by other posters? What about previously made disciplines I did? Surely a brand-new discipline by me would be tolerated, I'm just asking about the corner cases.

DracoDei
2010-02-17, 11:15 PM
I believe that the disciplines given are irrelevant to the contest rules. The PrC is the issue, not the disciplines it grants access to. Otherwise anything that got access to core spells would be disallowed, which would be rediculous.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-17, 11:16 PM
I'll leave the specifics blank for now, but know that Lord Gareth and myself are weaving a tapestry that pits Fate against Destiny...

JoshuaZ
2010-02-17, 11:26 PM
Regarding
does this mean I cannot include homebrew martial disciplines by other posters? What about previously made disciplines I did? Surely a brand-new discipline by me would be tolerated, I'm just asking about the corner cases.

I think there have been specific classes before that had access to homebrew disciplines or other small bits of existing homebrew. Can't think of a specific example off the top of my head though.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-18, 12:30 AM
Regarding
does this mean I cannot include homebrew martial disciplines by other posters? What about previously made disciplines I did? Surely a brand-new discipline by me would be tolerated, I'm just asking about the corner cases.

I distinctly remember a class that was based around the Dancing Leaf Discipline (one of The Demented One's), so as long as they're okay with it, there should be no issue. That line is supposed to refer to previously made Prestige Classes. For example, I couldn't submit my Spirit Samurai prestige class because it was made well before the Contest started and previously posted on the boards.


I'll leave the specifics blank for now, but know that Lord Gareth and myself are weaving a tapestry that pits Fate against Destiny...

Xallace and I will not be intimidated by your flash-bangs and who-has!

Xallace
2010-02-18, 07:25 AM
Heh, from the sounds of it, everyone's entries are intended to be so epic that they should come with their own personalized movie trailers.

ErrantX
2010-02-18, 07:51 AM
Heh, from the sounds of it, everyone's entries are intended to be so epic that they should come with their own personalized movie trailers.

And incredibly mysterious!

-X

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-18, 12:48 PM
To be slightly less mysterious, I will be taking the part of F.A.T.E., while Destiny is in Djinn's hands.

Glimbur
2010-02-18, 01:12 PM
The entry I'm working on should be awesome. Spate's part will be less awesome.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-18, 01:18 PM
To be slightly less mysterious, I will be taking the part of F.A.T.E., while Destiny is in Djinn's hands.

Ah HA! You've left yourself open for an attack of opportunity!

::rolls d20::

What's your AC? Does a 19 (with modifiers, of course) beat it?


The entry I'm working on should be awesome. Spate's part will be less awesome.

I'm gonna hope that this is a joke, because we're all going to need all the awesome we can muster in order to compete with Djinn and Gareth :smallsmile:.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-18, 02:07 PM
Ah HA! You've left yourself open for an attack of opportunity!

::rolls d20::

What's your AC? Does a 19 (with modifiers, of course) beat it?

You miss me. 10 Base, +3 Dex, -1 size, +6 natural, plus my +10 Deflection bonus from my Chosen of the GitP PrC Contest template. :smallbiggrin:

ErrantX
2010-02-18, 02:13 PM
You miss me. 10 Base, +3 Dex, -1 size, +6 natural, plus my +10 Deflection bonus from my Chosen of the GitP PrC Contest template. :smallbiggrin:

Ooooo nerd burn :D

Djinn, gonna make a couples "I defeated Djinn" banner for this one?

-X

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-18, 02:15 PM
Ooooo nerd burn :D

-X

Heh. I had to, once I realized that a 19 would hit your typical unarmored Noble Djinn. Although I suppose I DO get an armor bonus from being in this damn bottle...:smalltongue:

Edit: Yes, I will. It will feature the winner's avatars gloating over my battered corpse.

Kallisti
2010-02-18, 02:35 PM
...so much awesome, so few replies.

That said, I have an idea and would love to try my hand at this contest, but being an amateur homebrewer I'd have little enough hope of winning that shiny banner. So if anyone wants to hear more, PM me, since I need a partner.

EDIT: :smalleek:DragoonWraith, I feel terrible. If I'd remembered to come vote for the Bound, you'd have tied with Xallace for the last contest.:smallfrown:

Xallace
2010-02-18, 02:43 PM
Edit: Yes, I will. It will feature the winner's avatars gloating over my battered corpse.

I wonder though.

If (I mean, uh, when, right right) Golden-Esque and I take the crown, could you possibly publicly swear melodramatic vegeance upon me and vow to get me next time? That's all I'll need. :smallsmile:

Perhaps in comic form. With Jethro wildly gesticulating your vengeful curse.

So I like feeling like a pulpy superhero, what.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-18, 02:45 PM
I wonder though.

If (I mean, uh, when, right right) Golden-Esque and I take the crown, could you possibly publicly swear melodramatic vegeance upon me and vow to get me next time? That's all I'll need. :smallsmile:

Perhaps in comic form. With Jethro wildly gesticulating your vengeful curse.

So I like feeling like a pulpy superhero, what.

Oh yes. Yes, yes, and yes again. :smallbiggrin:

Xallace
2010-02-18, 02:54 PM
Oh yes. Yes, yes, and yes again. :smallbiggrin:

I love this contest.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-18, 02:56 PM
I love this contest.

Likewise...although I'm getting the idea that I'm inadvertently taking on the role of the ridiculous evil mastermind, lording it over his minions until the day he is finally overthrown...

You get pulpy superhero...I get Flash Gordon villain. I think you win, good sir. :smalltongue:

Zom B
2010-02-18, 03:46 PM
So our two PrCs are shaping up nicely. We're both firing ideas at each other, and a lot of it's sticking as solid ideas.

Well, it helps when you can talk to each other on the phone irl every day about it.

The White Wolf Ascendant pleases me, and I think the never-before-seen mechanic of the Black Wolf Warrior should cause some waves. Maybe not good ones, though. But how else do you represent being consumed by a force without actually having a mechanic for being consumed. (Why is there no smiley for laughing maniacally?)

Oh, yes. Terribly mysterious.

Xzoltar
2010-02-18, 03:49 PM
From the sound of everybody post, that look promising, hope to see some of the work soon in the contest thread, even if not yet finished completly...

Xallace
2010-02-18, 05:22 PM
Likewise...although I'm getting the idea that I'm inadvertently taking on the role of the ridiculous evil mastermind, lording it over his minions until the day he is finally overthrown...

Are you telling me you'd want it any other way? :smalltongue:

OK, how about you tell me what you want, given you and Gareth take home the gold. Go ahead, name it, I'll comply. :smallamused:

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-18, 05:32 PM
Your soul.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-18, 05:40 PM
I love working with Xallace; I feel like both of our concepts are stronger because we have people to shoot them at. I can only tremble at the thought of what Djinn and Gareth are up to ...


I'm getting the idea that I'm inadvertently taking on the role of the ridiculous evil mastermind, lording it over his minions until the day he is finally overthrown...

They say you either die a Hero or live long enough to become the villain :).


Your soul.

Never! I ... will ... NEVER SERVE YOU!


I wonder though.

If (I mean, uh, when, right right) Golden-Esque and I take the crown, could you possibly publicly swear melodramatic vegeance upon me and vow to get me next time? That's all I'll need. :smallsmile:.

Completely right :). I look forward to seeing Max do his trademark RAWR over your battered corpse, Djinn!

All completely uncalled for rivalries aside, I think that at some point, we're going to have to do another "pair'em up" contest. This one has been a LOT of fun!

Xallace
2010-02-18, 05:42 PM
Your soul.

Aw dang I know I forgot to put a caveat in there. :smallannoyed:

EDIT: Totally concur, Golden-Esque. Idea bouncing is probably the best part. We should get on this again!

Golden-Esque
2010-02-18, 05:44 PM
From the sound of everybody post, that look promising, hope to see some of the work soon in the contest thread, even if not yet finished completly...

I think that everyone is saving their entries for a huge shebang, meaning that everyone's going to try to get to being as close to finished as possible :). However, I was thinking about it, and wouldn't it be cool for no one to put their entries up until after the expiration date; instead mailing them all to ErrantX to look over. Then, each day for say a week or so, he posts one or two of them up on the forums so none are missed. It'll turn into a daily dose of fun and excitement!

Ya'know, just tossing out ideas :). Hopefully this contest's turnout is as big as the last one. I hope we have to narrow it down to finalists again! That's what makes it fun.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-18, 05:45 PM
Aw dang I know I forgot to put a caveat in there. :smallannoyed:

EDIT: Totally concur, Golden-Esque. Idea bouncing is probably the best part. We should get on this again!

::Throws on cape::

TO THE GOOGLEDOCS!!!

But yeah, I check your Google Document every hour or so, as long as I'm not busy and I try to add new stuffs when I can. Tuesday / Thursdays are my busy days T_T.

Xallace
2010-02-18, 05:47 PM
::Throws on cape::

TO THE GOOGLEDOCS!!!

But yeah, I check your Google Document every hour or so, as long as I'm not busy and I try to add new stuffs when I can. Tuesday / Thursdays are my busy days T_T.

I won't be able to work on them 'til tonight. I've been on and off in between classes and studying for my Math exam (coming up in half an hour). This week has been total heck, but I've been thinking during my freetime. Should have something this weekend fo' sho'.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-18, 05:57 PM
I won't be able to work on them 'til tonight. I've been on and off in between classes and studying for my Math exam (coming up in half an hour). This week has been total heck, but I've been thinking during my freetime. Should have something this weekend fo' sho'.

Good ... yes, good ... ::strokes Mr. Bigglesworth::

In the meantime, I have PLENTY for you to sink your teeth into :).

Hyooz
2010-02-18, 11:04 PM
I think that everyone is saving their entries for a huge shebang, meaning that everyone's going to try to get to being as close to finished as possible :). However, I was thinking about it, and wouldn't it be cool for no one to put their entries up until after the expiration date; instead mailing them all to ErrantX to look over. Then, each day for say a week or so, he posts one or two of them up on the forums so none are missed. It'll turn into a daily dose of fun and excitement!

Ya'know, just tossing out ideas :). Hopefully this contest's turnout is as big as the last one. I hope we have to narrow it down to finalists again! That's what makes it fun.

Whoa, people send things to Errant X to look over? This information is relevant to my interests.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-18, 11:10 PM
Whoa, people send things to Errant X to look over? This information is relevant to my interests.

Huh. I did not know that either. Also, I'm not sure this method is a good idea because it reduces the chance for others to EACH the classes. In general, even the best classes often benefit from feedback.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-18, 11:31 PM
Huh. I did not know that either. Also, I'm not sure this method is a good idea because it reduces the chance for others to EACH the classes. In general, even the best classes often benefit from feedback.

No, no. You misinterpret my intent. I didn't mean "look them over" as in PEACHing them on his own. I intended my statement to mean something more along the lines of controlled posting so that we're not overwhelmed by 80 new classes on day one (some of which, inevitably, would not be read) and then nothing new for a month.

However, upon retrospection, I agree that the fact that the authors would be unable to edit their creations would be a major flaw in this plan, and would make it all but obsolete.

boomwolf
2010-02-19, 05:00 AM
Well, due to the nature of my army service I will not be able to participate in this contest. (yaknow, being home once every two-three weeks.)

I wish you all good luck, and hope to see some great entries, however I fear that the winners might be already known, I beg you to prove me wrong.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-19, 10:22 AM
:smalleek:DragoonWraith, I feel terrible. If I'd remembered to come vote for the Bound, you'd have tied with Xallace for the last contest.:smallfrown:
Aw! Don't worry about it. Third vs fourth isn't really a big deal, though I really would have liked to see how many people voted for the Bound.

But I actually would have won outright, since we were tied 7/7/7 (also DaTedinator's Naked Knight), and ErrantX took his position as tie-breaker to vote for Ninja of the Golden Eclipse.

Of course, since I voted for the Ninja of the Golden Eclipse, I really don't mind. It's an awesome idea for a class, I think.

Xallace
2010-02-19, 10:29 AM
Of course, since I voted for the Ninja of the Golden Eclipse, I really don't mind. It's an awesome idea for a class, I think.

:smallredface:

Well, the Bound was certainly a masterful piece of work, I'll tell ya'! Woulda gotten my vote had Errant used his tiebreaker for you instead.

Xzoltar
2010-02-20, 11:04 PM
What no more talking ?

Will 1 person per team post both PrC or each one do it themself ?

Zom B
2010-02-22, 01:26 PM
Our classes are nearing completion. We're waiting on finishing up the special abilities and putting them at the right levels before making a sample NPC, obviously, but man, oh man, am I excited, even if we don't win.

It's going to suck to have it hammered out and have to wait a few weeks. Ah, well, that's more time to look over it and think critically about it.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-23, 02:52 AM
I wonder how everyones's entries are coming along by this point. There's only about 20 days left on the clock, and since nothing's been posted, I'm hoping that everyone is going nuts trying to make their entries perfect! This is bound to have some of the best classes out of any of the contests :smallbiggrin:!

Vaynor
2010-02-23, 03:01 AM
I wonder how everyones's entries are coming along by this point. There's only about 20 days left on the clock, and since nothing's been posted, I'm hoping that everyone is going nuts trying to make their entries perfect! This is bound to have some of the best classes out of any of the contests :smallbiggrin:!

Yeah, the fact that everyone has someone to critique their entry before they even post it is most likely the reason. And because of that, I'll have to agree, I expect to see some pretty kick-ass entries. Should be interesting.

Zom B
2010-02-23, 09:11 AM
Most definitely. There's stuff I came up with that I didn't think was terribly overpowered, but after PMing the latest revision to Raptor, or he PMing to me, or us talking on the phone, we'll go, "No, we can't do that, because then at 10th level they'd always use this ability and have a +10 to hit all the time. Even with the cleric attack progression, that comes out better than a straight fighter. This other class, they're getting a +5 to damage here and a +1 per Wis modifier to damage over here? That seems like too much. We also need to give them something else here. What if instead of letting them do this ability over here as a standard action, we make it a move action instead? That way, when they're standing still, they can opt to do this and give up a full attack. A free action once per day? No, I hate per-day abilities." You get the idea.

ErrantX
2010-02-23, 09:34 AM
*wrings his hands together and laughs maniacally*

All part of my plans, muhahahahaha!

Also, I'm really excited to start seeing some classes :)

-X

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-23, 10:02 AM
Alright...change of plans. Lord Gareth and myself have taken on a new idea, which I will give you all the names of:

Lord-Wardens of the Silent Cage vs. The Illustrious Ones

Golden-Esque
2010-02-24, 11:21 AM
Xallace and I are working through our classes rather nicely. Now, I wouldn't want this thread to fall too far behind on the boards, so I thought I'd give a nice little coming attraction for one of our classes :).

"They think we can be eradicated like some sort of vermin. That our lives don't matter, simply because their gods disapprove of our powers because even they cannot understand them. Let them try, I say. Let them see firsthand the true force they face!"

~ Darole Dusksmasher, a Seropaenean Avenger

DragoonWraith
2010-02-24, 07:20 PM
So, you've got an anti-anti-binder class?

I wonder how many people would actually recognize "Seropaenan", heh.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-24, 09:13 PM
So, you've got an anti-anti-binder class?

I wonder how many people would actually recognize "Seropaenan", heh.

Hopefully after people read our classes's lore, that particular adjective will be less ambiguous.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-02-24, 09:53 PM
So, you've got an anti-anti-binder class?

I wonder how many people would actually recognize "Seropaenan", heh.

It's not all that obscure, in my experience; my group and I don't really appreciate the pages and pages (and pages and pages....) of fluff padding every single class and PrC in later books, and usually ignore them in favor of our own fluff, but the Seropaenean name is well-associated with binders in my group and others at my college for whatever reason.

Glimbur
2010-02-24, 10:34 PM
Spate and I just put our classes up.

Spate
2010-02-24, 10:37 PM
They are both cool and uncool, and therefore have something for everyone.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-24, 11:14 PM
Haha, those are awesome.

But you guys need some proofreading. There's some spelling and grammatical errors that kind of come off as unprofessional, to me at least.

Mechanically and flavor, I don't have any particular comments; they seem reasonable and the flavor, as I said, is awesome.

Spate
2010-02-24, 11:24 PM
Are you talking about the capitalization of clerk? That was on purpose.

I also realize that aberration is spelled wrong twice. Correcting, now.

Sereg
2010-02-24, 11:28 PM
@Glimbur and Spate: Are you familiar with the Funk-Square alignment axis. It appears that your classes are perfect for it.

DracoDei
2010-02-26, 06:07 AM
@Glimbur and Spate: Are you familiar with the Funk-Square alignment axis. It appears that your classes are perfect for it.
Quoted for Truth.
Funky/Square may be found HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/printthread.php?t=55828).


the clerks of the mundane

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/829/35084785.JPG

Picture looks good.


Sir, I am just a humble sailor. –John Smith, Clerk Fifth Class.

Quote if fine.


The clerks of mundane strive to balance out the world. With so many adventurers mucking about, dragons destroying towns, eldritch battles fought in the skies, and elder gods smacking people, who looks up for the little guy? The little guy that has to rebuild his farm after you just used it so fight a rampaging dinosaur, or the guy that has to buy new furniture for his tavern after adventurers used his old tables and chairs to brutally murder people in an honest town brawl. So, enter the clerks. They stop all his epic nonsense and let people get on with their lives.

BECOMING A CLERK
The easiest way to become a clerk is to live long enough to gain the class levels. As long as you are not mystically endowed or have a special destiny, you can do fine as a clerk.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
:Skills: Profession (any) 8
:Alignment: Must be neutral on at least one axis.
:Feats: Cannot have any of the Exotic Weapon, Exotic Armor, or Exotic Shield Proficiency feats.
:Special: Cannot cast arcane or divine spells, manifest psionic powers, know invocations, know infusions, know mysteries, have access to truenaming, binding, meldshaping, or wildshaping.

Might you go so far as to say you can't have any supernatural, spell-like, psi-like, etc etc class or racial features? Maybe allow a few supernatural racial features like Darkvision (is that Supernatural? I can't be bothered to check right now.).


Class Skills
The clerk of mundanity's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are.... Climb(Str), Craft(Int), Disguise(Cha), Hide(Dex), Listen(Wis), Jump(Str), Profession(Wis), Ride(Dex), Spot(Wis), Swim(Str), Use Rope(Dex)
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + Int

Leave out the eplispse.


Hit Dice: d8

The middle sized hit-die... very well.


clerk of the mundane

Just now noticed the continual lack of capitalization... nice touch.


<Snip>

BAB and saves look good.


Weapon Proficiencies: A clerk of the mundane gains no new proficiencies with weapons or armor.

I would give them all simple weapon proficiencies, and maybe light armor and shields... such things are common.


Clerk’s Code: If a clerk of the mundane ever learns spellcasting, manifesting, invocations, infusions, mysteries, truenaming, binding, meldshaping or wildshaping; is not neutral in at least one alignment axis; or gains proficiency in an exotic weapon, exotic armor, or exotic shield, he loses access to all his class features and can no longer take levels in clerk of the mundane. If he atones after somehow losing that ability, then he is reinstated as a clerk and progress in the class with access to all his clerk of the mundane abilities.

I think this is the default, except that this way you might be able to keep the violating ability/alignment, as long as you are sorry about it?


Aura of the Mundane (Ex): At first level, a clerk gains an aura he can project to keep the world in check. It has a range of 10ft and anyone in the aura cannot benefit from luck bonuses or use feats with the [luck] descriptor. At 3rd level and every two levels afterwards the aura grows by 10 feet. The clerk’s aura does affect himself.

Seemed a bit narrowly specific... but then I glanced at the opposing class.


Recognize the Special (Ex): A clerk always has a bonus equal to knowledge checks equal to his Wisdom modifier to identify creatures. He can also identify creatures untrained.

Int + Wis since knowledge skills aren't class... not going to get you VERY far... maybe throw in class level too... this covers a good spectrum of abilities, but only a narrow spectrum within each ability... I dunno, maybe add Wis mod and half class level, rather than no scaling or full scaling...


Detect the Special (Ex): A number of times per day equal to his class level, a clerk can use Detect the Special. When he does, he is treated as if he casted detect magic, detect good, detect chaos, detect evil, detect law, or detect psionics. His caster level is equal to his class level+Wisdom modifier.

Detect magic isn't going to be nearly as much good without at least 1 rank in spell-craft, but that is how it should be, and they can always buy it cross-class...


No-one out of the ordinary (Ex): A clerk does not appears as anyone unusual, and has a bonus to Hide and Disguise checks equal to his Wisdom modifier when attempting to blend in to a crowd or appear as if he is a native to a region. Also, anyone using the Gather Information skill to attempt to learn about a clerk has a +5 to all DCs to learn information about him. It also takes twice the time.
Fine.


Routine Skills (Ex): A clerk can always take ten on any skill, no matter what.

Very powerful, especially if someone buys UMD, UPD, and/or Tumble cross-class... it also helps out the identifying thing a bit, but only a bit, and only for a relatively breif window.


Resist the Special (Ex): A clerk gains spell resistance and power resistance equal to his class level+Wisdom modifier+10.
Personally I would make this character level, or maybe even total hit-dice instead of class level... I normally go with ECL for stuff like this, but in this case, penalizing them for being of an unusually powerful race that is powerful for reasons complex enough not to be bound up in HD is exactly right.


Stop the Mage (Ex): A clerk can dispel a spell or power 1/encounter. This is an opposed check, with the clerk’s bonus equal to his character level+Wisdom modifer. The caster/manifester adds his caster/manifester level+the spell’s/power’s level. At 6th and 9th level the clerk can do this once more per encounter.

Eh.... it works.


Average Chances (Ex): Instead of rolling for mischance, a clerk can automatically succeed on the roll. If the clerk encounters the same mischance again from the same target, he automatically fails. After he fails once, he can use this ability again on the same miss chance.
Is mischance a mechanic of [luck] feats, or what?


Improved Aura (Ex): A clerk’s aura cancels out Morale and Insight bonuses at 4th level, Competence at 6th, and Deflection at 8th.

This is good... except maybe the competence stuff, which sounds like it might sometimes have a purely mundane source... but I could EASILY be mistaken about that.


Hunt the Special (Ex): A clerk treats aberrations, dragons, elementals, fey, magical beasts, ooze, outsider(all), and undead as favored enemies. As such, he has a bonus to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival equal to his Wisdom Modifier when using these skills against the creatures of these types. Likewise, he adds his Wisdom modifier on weapon damage rolls against such creatures. This is treated as the ranger ability Favored Enemy in all respects for the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes, etc. The bonuses provided by this ability are not increased by the presence of the Favored Enemy ability.

Need to specify either the static bonus, or how you calculate how many times you selected it as a virtual ranger.


Ordinary Damage (Ex): A clerk can choose to do average damage instead of rolling. He must declare this ability before rolling for damage.

I gave my Beige Dragons (see my extended signature, Rich Berlews original concept of course...) approximately the same thing... incidently, the idea of a clerk mounted on a Beige dragon riding into town for groceries would be... highly appropriate.


Commonplace Action (Ex): A clerk can choose to take ten on any attack roll, disarm attempt, trip attempt, sunder attempt, grapple check, ability check, or saving throw. He must declare this ability before rolling.

More parallels with Beige Dragons, so I obviously approve.


Destroy the Special (Ex): A number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier, a clerk can smite aberrations, dragons, elementals, fey, magical beasts, ooze, outsider(all), or undead. He adds his Wisdom modifier to the attack roll, and does extra damage equal to his class level.
Note: Destroy the special’s and hunt the special’s damage bonuses stack with each other.

This works, although, again, class level may be a bit weak. Try double that, or maybe character level.


Shunning Aura (Ex): Once per encounter, a clerk can create an antimagic and null psionics field as a swift action that last for a number of minutes equal to his Wisdom bonus. His caster/manifester level is equal to his class level, and the range is equal to the range of his Aura of the Mundane class feature.

Very powerful... I like it.


PLAYING A CLERK
Being a clerk is about preserving the natural order. You are a fine upstanding citizen, and do not suffer the whims of those who feel they are above you because they can shoot fireballs from their hands. Clerks prefer to do things by the sweat of their brows.
"Upstanding citizen" implies lawful to me...


Combat: Effect as most people with your aura. Choose things wisely, since you are very specialized. Target weird things and spellcasters. Hunt the special is useful.

Should be "as many as possible". The second sentence I can't even figure out what you meant.


Advancement: Stay away from things that conflict with the Code, possibly become a martial adept.

I would think that a lot of Martial Adept stuff should be a verboten as magic... I mean Desert Wind is even nastier than Fireballs etc when it comes to collatoral damage, because the damage is lower, so more stuff gets hit in the process of killing a given target that is moving around, and it is more spammable.


Resources: Other clerks would help, if you can recognize them. Also, townspeople fed up with adventurers ruining the economy can be a good aide.

CLERKS IN THE WORLD
“Man, that guy is really boring.” –Redgar the Fighter.

Clerks are perceived as holes in the general universe. Adventurers avoid them like the plague, and monsters don’t rampage quite as well near them. The general folk of a nation love active clerks, since they clean up after themselves and others.
Daily Life: Most clerks spend their time like all the other denizens of wherever they live. Other are much more proactive and seek out things disturbing the natural order.
Notables: A notable clerk is Elenae Whitethistle, a powerful elf maiden who guards a vast forest. A darker side to the clerks is Naden Vlok, who uses his power to murder mages wantonly.
Organizations: The Namber Cleaning and Storage Facility employs many clerks.

What do they do exactly?


Going to stop here...

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-26, 01:51 PM
Aaand teaserpost.

Xzoltar
2010-02-26, 02:00 PM
Hate You !

Fluff is so cool but no ability, now I want to know more and need to wait :(

Hope more will start posting so we have more time to jdge and comments their creation.

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-26, 04:10 PM
So Djinn, what do we want from Xallace and his partner when we're done spanking them like redheaded stepchildren?

[/arrogant posturing]

Xallace
2010-02-26, 04:52 PM
So Djinn, what do we want from Xallace and his partner when we're done spanking them like redheaded stepchildren?

[/arrogant posturing]

How about some salt and pepper so that foot in your mouth won't taste so bad? :smalltongue:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-26, 05:29 PM
So Djinn, what do we want from Xallace and his partner when we're done spanking them like redheaded stepchildren?

[/arrogant posturing]

You need to PM me what's you're thinking of, my friend, before such posturing is admissible. :smallbiggrin:

That said, we're totally going to kick ass this time! :smalltongue:

DracoDei
2010-02-26, 05:36 PM
Djinn: I think you should reserve your post now, so that things are kept together as much as possible. I would think this would be an exception to the usual rule about such things and Bhu and I may be posting our rough drafts soon.



Regarding Scion of Awesome:
Still a lot of spelling/grammar problems here, plus the table for Do the Impossible appears to have an extra | on the first line before what should be the header for the first column of the table.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-26, 05:41 PM
So Djinn, what do we want from Xallace and his partner when we're done spanking them like redheaded stepchildren?

[/arrogant posturing]

I like how I'm reduced to a pronoun ...


That said, we're totally going to kick ass this time!

Maybe, but you're going to have to fight like you've never fought before for first place!

Jallorn
2010-02-26, 06:12 PM
I was gonna enter, but there's no way I can beat Djinn in a little over 15 days :P

Maybe in a year or two when I've gotten more practice, but...

Ah hell, I'll join anyway, that is, if someone else is looking for a partner. PM me.

DracoDei
2010-02-26, 06:17 PM
Can't get better if you don't practice, and practice, and getting feed-back are the goals of this contest. We also tend to produce some very high quality PrCs for people to use, but since non-contest posting also does that, it isn't as critical an effect.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-26, 06:23 PM
I was gonna enter, but there's no way I can beat Djinn in a little over 15 days :P

Entirely untrue! Hell...I just have vague ideas floating around, and need to hear a little more of what Gareth's got planned before I can really get to work. We're on the same timeline here!

Xzoltar
2010-02-26, 07:14 PM
Unless someone already have a really good idea of a Vs Concept, then 15 Days is not very long, I will certainly enter in next contest, but for the time remaining not sure I can do it, unless I got a concept I really like and have idea for it...

DracoDei
2010-02-26, 09:39 PM
Jallorn and Xzoltar: Sounds like you two should partner...

If neither of you has any ideas here are a few (I may edit this list as I go):

Knight/Dragon Slayer vs Dragon


(Fey or Druid) vs (Artificer/Warforged) for the Nature vs Technology vibe.


Some class that requires sucking the life-forces out of bunches of sapient creatures to fuel its powers but the DC is a mere 11+Ability score modifier and never scales, so it is mostly useful on commoners. Also make it very good at sneaking around and escaping vs a class that completely and utterly shuts down all offensive (against itself only, not surrounding people) and combat defensive powers of that class, but is not nearly so good at tracking or detecting (but still better than most). This give a "fox raiding the hen-house Vs gaurd-dog" vibe.


Some set of classes that pursue nearly the same goals, and whose powers would directly and greatly compliment eachother if they ever joined forces, but who, due to anchient grudges hate eachother, and require all recruits to swear magically binding oaths that cause the lose of key class features if they ever so much as speak politely to a member of the other class. The animousity between the two should be so severe that if both were invited to a royal ball, the first thing they would do upon catching sight of eachother would be to rip a leg off the nearest chair (since weapons aren't allowed in the palace except for the gaurds) and charge the other person, utterly heedless of the consequences.


That should be enough to get you thinking...

Golden-Esque
2010-02-26, 09:42 PM
I also recommend GoogleDocs to anyone planning on entering the Contest. The program lets Xallace and I see the exact concepts we're working on, all the while editing them together at each other's leisure.

Owrtho
2010-02-26, 11:10 PM
A versus idea Kellus and I decided not to go with is this if you want to steal it:
There's some god known as something like the Puppet Master, for who all are but puppets in his grand play. His worshipers have ended up taking this in to different directions causing a split and internal strife. One side thinks that people need to be controlled and forced to perform his will (abilities likely focused on controlling others), the other thinks that people are already doing so if left alone and should be given freedom to better perform his will.

Owrtho

DracoDei
2010-02-28, 05:55 PM
Got worried about losing something, so I went ahead and posted what I have so far. Don't know when Bhu is going to have his half ready to go (or at least post a place-holder), but if it gets to be too long (12 hours sounds good?) other teams can just go ahead and post their stuff and I will move mine down when Bhu posts.

Hyooz
2010-02-28, 06:28 PM
DracoDei, the order on your abilities is all out of whack. Normally, they're arranged chronologically in the order you get them. These seem all over the place.

DracoDei
2010-02-28, 07:13 PM
Right... will fix that when I get a moment... have a MapTool game where we are up against who we THOUGHT would be the BBEG of the who campaign. It might be tomorrow or even later depending on aiding my parents with landscaping goes.

Ok, fixed (people tend to think a lot when fighting a draco-lich...), with the exception of the ability I haven't decided which level to put it at yet (which is highlighted in red to remind me I need to slot it in.

FWIW I am probably going to extend this class to 15 levels or so since Wildshape is an ability that continues to expand in new ways all the way to 20th level.

Hyooz
2010-02-28, 08:35 PM
Extend it to 15 just to keep Wildshape from coming back? Isn't that covered/couldn't that be covered by the first ability? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your goal, but it might be easier to just include a phrase that you don't get to change forms no more forever, in case you want to multiclass or something.

DracoDei
2010-02-28, 08:44 PM
Such language is necessary, and I might have already included it. What I am trying to do is to make sure that the fact that Wildshape gets several nifty abilities between levels 15 and 20 (since if I had kept this a 10 level PrC it will stop at a total of 15 class levels) doesn't leave anchored guardians behind the curve after they leave the class. Thus levels 11 through 15 of the PrC with additional nifty abilities.

Zom B
2010-02-28, 08:45 PM
--Reserved for the Illustrious Ones--



7) No reserving posts. Feel free to tweak your class, but the initial post must include the basics.

Also, it's "Guardians", not "Gaurdians."

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-28, 08:50 PM
*Stuff directed at me*

I know there's a no reserving posts rule. That said, it was suggested by another poster on this thread that, given the nature of the contest, it might be best that I do so, to keep entries paired with their respective other. As I have yet to leave an entry unfinished and didn't hear ErrantX say that the idea of keeping entries together was unreasonable, I felt confident reserving the post.

DracoDei
2010-02-28, 08:51 PM
Since half the entry is already up, I think this qualifies as an exception to the "No reserving posts thing". ErrantX hasn't said anything about it...
EDIT: Ninja-ed...

Zom B
2010-02-28, 08:53 PM
No, I'm not upset or opposed to you doing so; I realized a while ago that it was probably a good idea to be able to do this unless you coordinate your posting. I posted that more out of humor than anything.

This isn't a tournament where rules are lines beyond which lie disqualifications; it's an internet competition of creative prowess and for the enjoyment of the playgrounders.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-28, 08:56 PM
No, I'm not upset or opposed to you doing so; I realized a while ago that it was probably a good idea to be able to do this unless you coordinate your posting. I posted that more out of humor than anything.

This isn't a tournament where rules are lines beyond which lie disqualifications; it's an internet competition of creative prowess and for the enjoyment of the playgrounders.

Got it. Missed the humor in your post...it's hard to convey such things over the internet. My bad. :smallfrown:

DracoDei
2010-02-28, 09:04 PM
Got it. Missed the humor in your post...it's hard to convey such things over the internet. My bad. :smallfrown:
^^^ What he said...

Zom B
2010-02-28, 09:34 PM
Our solution was, since we're PMing this stuff back and forth to each other, that the easiest method would be for the same person to post both items. Since Raptor is currently job-hunting, he's mostly only available by phone or for short bursts online, so I'll be the poster more than likely.

Zom B
2010-03-01, 08:10 AM
All right, Black Wolf Warrior and White Wolf Ascendant both now live.

DracoDei
2010-03-01, 09:45 AM
The emperor’s best medics tended to Kai and were able to keep him alive, but he would never again be able to fight.
At first I thought this didn't add up in a world that includes Regeneration but I think it may turn into fridge-brilliance when you consider that it was an assassination attempt, and so a blade with a strong enough wound-cursing effect to make this the outcome makes perfect sense.

Zom B
2010-03-01, 10:30 AM
It was a +1 Katana of Plot-Furthering.

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-01, 11:34 AM
Don't be so cocky, Xallace & Pronoun. The Lord-Wardens shackle deities :p

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-01, 11:36 AM
Don't be so cocky, Xallace & Pronoun. The Lord-Wardens shackle deities :p

Heh. Pronoun. :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-01, 11:39 AM
Y'know Djinn, communication on how to unleash epic-level awesome would go faster over YIM.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-01, 11:54 AM
Good point. One second.

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-01, 12:51 PM
Aaaand my first three abilities are up. Working on the next three now.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-01, 12:59 PM
Aaaand my first three abilities are up. Working on the next three now.

I'd change one thing so far: that free save should be 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + most related ability score. Otherwise it's far to easy to make.

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-01, 01:03 PM
Okay, but what, exactly, should the "most relevant ability score" be? Their highest one? It's kinda hard to word or set.

Hyooz
2010-03-01, 01:04 PM
On the Black Wolf Warrior: What if one of the class features it consumes (say, a fighter bonus feat) means I don't qualify for the PrC anymore?

Glimbur
2010-03-01, 01:06 PM
Random question: What if I take Fighter 5, and my fourth level fighter feat is Power Attack. Then I start Black Wolf Ascendant. What happens at class level 2?

Also, I don't like the Consumed class feature. I see what you're trying to do, but it seems like it will end up making all Black Wolf Ascendants more homogeneous. The best entry I can see is five different full BAB classes so you get maximal saves; alternately Soulborn 5 so you get a meld shaped.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-01, 01:07 PM
Okay, but what, exactly, should the "most relevant ability score" be? Their highest one? It's kinda hard to word or set.

Since it's maneuvers or spells, whichever one determines the save DC of the associated ability. Default to Con for Ex abilities, Str for undefined maneuvers, or to Cha for Su, Ps, or Sp abilities without a specified type of casting.

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-01, 01:48 PM
Everything up to Curse of Chains is now done.

Shyftir
2010-03-01, 01:54 PM
So... um... I might be a bit late on this here thread. But would anybody like to partner up? I'm thinking of two opposed psycher classes, one dedicated to chaos and the other to order. Basically one would naturally fall to Wilders the other to Psions, If anybody is interested PM me.

Golden-Esque
2010-03-01, 03:03 PM
Don't be so cocky, Xallace & Pronoun. The Lord-Wardens shackle deities :p

I suppose that its a good thing that the Seropaenean Avenger takes on the aspects of beings that are beyond the influence of deities :). Oh noes! Spoilers! Where's my spoiler tab?!?!!?

And you know what? I'm okay with Pronoun. You can't spell Pronoun without Pro, after all ^_~.

Zom B
2010-03-01, 03:14 PM
Random question: What if I take Fighter 5, and my fourth level fighter feat is Power Attack. Then I start Black Wolf Ascendant. What happens at class level 2?

At level 2, you lose the Power Attack feat, but that's after you have selected your class for the level. Come level 3, you can't progress unless you meet the prerequisites for the PrC, same as every other PrC.


Also, I don't like the Consumed class feature. I see what you're trying to do, but it seems like it will end up making all Black Wolf Ascendants more homogeneous. The best entry I can see is five different full BAB classes so you get maximal saves; alternately Soulborn 5 so you get a meld shaped.

I'm finding that the better options are Fighter, as you lose 2-3 feats, which while bad is not a complete loss, or Monk, since you get the Unarmed Strike/Flurry back, and you can Flurry while wearing armor now.

Here's the thing to realize: You get some nice nice abilities with BWW. Dual-wield and power attack with both weapons as if you were wielding them two-handed (in other words, 2x what you trade in with PA), add +15 to all weapon damage, better to-hit than monk, better saves than fighter, and you're losing some of your previous class features to fuel all this. Think of it as a building retroactive level adjustment.

Glimbur
2010-03-01, 04:11 PM
I'm finding that the better options are Fighter, as you lose 2-3 feats, which while bad is not a complete loss, or Monk, since you get the Unarmed Strike/Flurry back, and you can Flurry while wearing armor now.

Here's the thing to realize: You get some nice nice abilities with BWW. Dual-wield and power attack with both weapons as if you were wielding them two-handed (in other words, 2x what you trade in with PA), add +15 to all weapon damage, better to-hit than monk, better saves than fighter, and you're losing some of your previous class features to fuel all this. Think of it as a building retroactive level adjustment.

Why go fighter 5 and get base saves of 4/1/1 when you could go Soulborn 1/Knight 1/Barbarian 1/ Duskblade 1/Ranger 1 and get base saves of 8/2/2? You lose basically all your other class features, so sticking with one class to get more and better features is non-optimal. BWW basically turns your previous levels into racial hit dice, with a few exceptions that I assume are unintentional like meldshaping. Otherwise Totemist 6/Black Wolf Warrior 5 gets the potential, at ECL 15, to make seven attacks all with the +15 to damage... as natural attacks. Throw on actual iterative attacks and flurry from the class and it might be more powerful than you're expecting. Power Attack with all of that and you're going places.

DracoDei
2010-03-01, 05:07 PM
A few very brief comments:

Illustrious One:
You are aware of the amount of Copy-pasta you have, right?


Black Wolf Warrior:

He may expend his focus before making an attack in order to add 1d6 damage per point of bonus that was applied before focus was expended.
Is this limited to against the target of the overall ability?

Hyooz
2010-03-01, 05:11 PM
Regarding Ward of the Bastion:

What does it mean if you make the Fort save against a spell? Does it simply have no effect? Also, at level 1, you can make fort saves against spells/etc. of level 1-3, but completely ignore the effects of one level 1-2? The overlap seems odd to me. Can you fail the fort save willingly, or do you have to bypass the DC even if he suppresses his 'I'll just ignore that' field?

Also, you listed out a lot of extra stuff he can ignore compared to what he can save against. Was this intentional?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-03-01, 06:08 PM
Onyxian Dreamer and Temple Waker are live, but neither one of us is dead set on the abilities quite yet. I plan on expanding out the Temple line a tad.

PEACHing other d00ds' stuffs will come sometime later this week, methinks.

Hyooz
2010-03-01, 07:41 PM
I'd say most of my abilities are pretty solid as-is, save any balance issues that get caught. I do want to change the capstone, though. As-is, it's underwhelming.

JoshuaZ
2010-03-01, 08:04 PM
A few quick comments. More to come later:

For the Onyx Dream pair:


Mysteries: Every level of Onyxian Dreamer you take, you gain new Mysteries and your Mysteries progress as arcane spells/spell likes/supernatural abilities as if you had gained a level of the Invoking class in the Invoking class you belonged to before. You gain no other benefits of the class you belonged to before.

Pretty sure "Invoking class" should be "mystery using class" or some wording like that.


The amount of bonus depends on your Knowledge check result, as given in the following.

This is either a grammar or a style issue. I'm not completely sure which. But I'd change "amount" to "size" which reads more naturally.


If the Temple Waker can succeed a DC 25 check, one mile radius, centered under the Temple Waker acts as if under the effects of the Black Labyrinth mystery.

A DC 25 what check? This problem occurs multiple times. I presume this is some sort of knowledge check. I'm not sure incidentally that the mechanic of having any type of knowledge check work is a good one. I mean, by the wording I can have 1 rank in 5 knowledge checks, and then try to make the checks in each. If any of them succeed I then gain the benefits? That's worrisome. Also, fluff-wise this seems strange: Could I do this with say Knowledge(baking) or Knowledge(the lint under beds)?


Traveling to the Onyx Dream itself is a dangerous risk. Instead, Temple Wakers learn to overlap the real with its reflection within the Onyx Dream. Words twist and bend, reveling trees long since absent. Roads fade into dirt paths at best and wild prairies. In addition to these cosmetic changes, hinting at once was, all creatures within the area feel a slight sway from the Dream.

Some grammar issues here. I presume you mean "revealing" rather than reveling. "Roads fade into dirt paths at best and wild prairies" - I'm not parsing that sentence. Do you mean to have perhaps "at worst" at the end?

Also, Temple Waker needs the abilities listed as (su), (sp) or (ex).

I'm not sure I understand why the Waker and Dreamer are at odds other than the titles. More fluff would be nice.

Hyooz
2010-03-01, 08:20 PM
Once the Waker's fluff is up it'll be more apparent, and I guess I succeeded in trying to keep the fluff of their animosity subdued. The general idea is the Dreamer sees the Dream as a source of power of sorts, and feel free to explore it nightly, chat up the 'locals', and bring some of it with them back to the waking world. The Wakers consider this a travesty. To them, the Dream is a potential source of incredible knowledge of the past, of the present, of civilizations long gone and still around. In a way, they revere it. Their abilities lie in using the knowledge they have gained from the dream to use their unique abilities.

So their quarrel is basically over how to use this resource. Dreamers see the Wakers as stodgy, controlling, and ruining the innate amorphousness of the Dream, something they view as a key part of its nature. Wakers see the Dreamers as irreverent, reckless, and almost blasphemous. Like the quote from the Dreamer said, Wakers think Dreamers are bastardizing history and ancestors. They would solidify the Dream, if they could, so what knowledge it has to share could be kept safe, and studied in its entirety.

I'll play with the fluff to try to make this more apparent. I just didn't want to throw a paragraph in there saying "Oh yeah, and they hate these guys. Here's why."

Zom B
2010-03-02, 09:38 AM
After much feedback, I have removed Consumed, given the Black Wolf Warrior some other nifty abilities, and changed the sample character to correspond.

While Consumed made sense thematically, it was too hard to work with as a game mechanic.

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-02, 12:22 PM
Hrmm. Djinn, do you have any ideas on replacement wording for Ward of the Bastion? Or anyone else, for that matter.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-03-02, 05:29 PM
A DC 25 what check? This problem occurs multiple times. I presume this is some sort of knowledge check. I'm not sure incidentally that the mechanic of having any type of knowledge check work is a good one. I mean, by the wording I can have 1 rank in 5 knowledge checks, and then try to make the checks in each. If any of them succeed I then gain the benefits? That's worrisome. Also, fluff-wise this seems strange: Could I do this with say Knowledge(baking) or Knowledge(the lint under beds)?

The start of the Shadow's Enlightenment lists which style of Knowledge check to use, but I could try to clean up the language, certainly.



Some grammar issues here. I presume you mean "revealing" rather than reveling. "Roads fade into dirt paths at best and wild prairies" - I'm not parsing that sentence. Do you mean to have perhaps "at worst" at the end?

Also, Temple Waker needs the abilities listed as (su), (sp) or (ex).

Thanks on that. I'll get that cleaned up here shortly.

EDIT: Should have everything in order now. This is what I get for not proofreading:smallbiggrin:

Moar fluff will be up later this week.

Hyooz
2010-03-02, 05:55 PM
Regarding Curse of Chains:

It seems like its a much better idea to fail your grapple check than to succeed at it. If I make a successful check in later rounds, roll escape artist to get out, teleport away, or Freedom of Movement, then I just lost one round instead of a full combat of huge debuff. Just a thought.

Glimbur
2010-03-03, 11:10 PM
PEACH plz. Does anybody like the Knowledge Devotion-like thing my class does with Intimidate? Is the [luck] feat thing shoe-horned in? Are the Smites necessary? What about the mount?

Zom B
2010-03-04, 12:10 AM
The only thing that feels out of place is the Smite, really. I like the flavor about them being able to bully the universe into obeying.

But for a silly class, you really can't expect balance. You expect stuff that is, well, awesome or funny. Having a zeppelin mount or a unicycle-riding bear mount or whatever else would most likely be hard to work with in a normal campaign.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-04, 12:24 PM
Just wondering if anyone has any comments on the Illustrious Presence abilities as written...

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-04, 12:36 PM
@Djinn - Any comments on rewording Ward of the Bastion? And/or YIM?

Glimbur
2010-03-04, 12:48 PM
I did just throw the Smite in for lack of other ideas. Maybe I should give the ability to heal via intimidate in a pool that refills per encounter, and competes with other Do the Impossibles...

Hyooz
2010-03-04, 02:12 PM
Just wondering if anyone has any comments on the Illustrious Presence abilities as written...

I'll see what I can come up with.


Illustrious Presence (Salience) [Ex]: It is impossible for an Illustrious One to be overlooked or ignored, as their presence is felt as a physical weight in the world. More to the point, ordinary mortals cannot help for feel strongly towards the Illustrious One, no matter their outlook. Any creature not already unfriendly or hostile to an Illustrious One is immediately treated as being helpful.

Interesting. Impossible to feel neutral toward Illustrious Ones. I do find it interesting that people who didn't have strong feelings to begin with become automatically helpful despite alignment. It's hardly a balance or real mechanics issue, but making some kind of caveat for those directly opposed to the Illustrious One's alignment (or at least, significantly opposed somehow) are immediately treated as unfriendly. Just a thought.


Illustrious Presence (Glory) [Ex]: Those who follow an Illustrious One ride the waves of her destiny, and see their devotion returned a hundredfold by the Illustrious One's undeniable cosmic glory. All of the Illustrious One's followers and cohorts gain bonus Hit Dice equal to 1/2 the Illustrious One's total character level, up to a maximum number of Hit Dice equal to the Illustrious One's total character level -1.

This could be problematic. I assume you mean it only applies to followers/cohorts from the Leadership feat, since that's what the text would imply. Just seems like the flavor of this ability should also extend to party members, allies and the like. Especially with leadership not being a required feat (last I checked) it might do well to toy with the wording to make your meaning here perfectly clear. Or maybe I'm the only one who sees potential confusion.


Illustrious Presence (Dominion) [Ex]: As an Illustrious One grows in power, her ability to sway lesser individuals to her ends becomes an unconscious response, brought on by her mere presence. Any unfriendly or hostile creature who interacts in any way with the Illustrious One (including offensive actions such as attempting an attack) must immediately succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Illustrious One's hit dice + the Illustrious One's Charisma modifier) of immediately become a devoted follower of the Illustrious One, and become dedicated to furthering the goals of the Illustrious One. A creature who succeeds on this saving throw is immune to this ability for 24 hours.

Wow. This is cool. Pretty straightforward, and as powerful as it is, probably just right for the crazy epic levels you'll be getting it. One slight flavor caveat again, though: it's supposed to be swaying lesser individuals, but as written, Asmodeus himself could find himself swayed to the Illustrious One's cause on a bad roll. Depending on who you want this to be able to effect, you might want to include an HD hard cap on who can be swayed, or make specific exemptions (deities, etc.)

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-04, 05:39 PM
I actually forgot to include Leadership on the feat requirements...that should help things. Also, I clarified some of that confusion with the three abilities.

Capstone added. Man...becoming a deity adds a lot of complexity to a character sheet. But it really does fit the Illustrious One, and it is a suitably epic capstone power.

DracoDei
2010-03-04, 06:11 PM
I would say just putting the [Mind-Affecting] tag on "Illustrious Presence (Dominion) [Ex]:" would handle that. If that would limit it too much, just cap the HD (or, better yet, CR) at Character level +1 or something.

Hyooz
2010-03-04, 08:15 PM
I don't know. Mind Blank is a little too common for a 9th level EPIC ability to be nulled by it. At the same time, if it isn't mind effecting, you're also recruiting oozes and undead to your Illustrious cause. Of course, if you're out to change the world, having a gelatinous cube in your army never hurts :D

Golden-Esque
2010-03-05, 02:48 AM
I'm just about ready to put our classes up, but before I do I thought I'd let everyone know about Xallace and my little predicament.

Xallace hit a rough spot in his life right now, and sadly he won't be able to reliably participate in the opening critiquing phases of the Contest. Regardless, I want to see this project through, as we definitely have something really cool to show everyone. I just wanted to make sure that no one had a problem with me taking over the postings and maintence of the classes within the contest.

Cheers,

~ Golden-Esque, now currently known as Pronoun

Xzoltar
2010-03-05, 06:48 AM
I have no problem with taht im pretty sure he have done is part of the job so no worries as we are allowed to help refine the PrC of the other, some already have suggested that only 1 person post the 2 PrC so I see no problem here.

Zom B
2010-03-05, 07:43 AM
Yeah me and Raptor hit similar circumstances. He moved out due to conflicts with his landlord that have travelled into the realm of a legal fight (with Raptor as the wronged party) and is having to move. Fortunately, we'd PM'd each other the classes so much that I had no problem posting both.

I think the majority of the PrCs being posted and will be posted have equal input from both parties, so I personally don't see a distinction marking one PrC as one person's and the other one as the other's. In our case, it was a brainstorming session along the lines of:

"Let's think of some opposites. Hot and cold, day and night, sun and moon, yin and yang. Hey, yin and yang, I kind of like that. Okay, Wikipedia says that yin and yang do not represent good and evil, but the equal and opposite dual nature of, well, nature. Hey, I'm remembering a little snippet, it was in that Pathfinder movie and I'd heard it before that, about two wolves in every man's heart. I think it'd be a cinch to merge yin and yang with the two wolves parable."

Golden-Esque
2010-03-05, 04:10 PM
Okay, so CLEARLY Xallace and I went a little overboard with these classes ... I couldn't get EITHER of them to fit on one post each. We're talking about a combined 100,000 characters between the two of us! That's just mind-boggling ...

Anyway, I am working on fixing up the formatting right now. With so much text, it needs to be easy on the eyes, so I should have that done in the next 10 minutes or so. In the meantime, I hope everyone enjoys two classes that never was and that can simply not exist. I'll have a concept statement shortly on behalf of Xallace and I :D.

Glimbur
2010-03-05, 11:16 PM
At 10th level, a Seropaenean Exorcist can gain the Investitures of up to three gods at the same time, though they can still only gain a maximum of two shards of divinity from any one god.


This power can only be used if the Exorcist chose to channel three shards of Wee Jas's Divinity.

This power can only be used if the Exorcist chose to channel three shards of St. Cuthbert's Divinity.

This power can only be used if the Exorcist is channeling three shards of Heironeous's Divinity.

This power can only be used if the Exorcist chose to channel three shards of Vecna's Divnity.

Um... were you intending that only a 10th level Exorcist would be able to use those abilities? Because that seems workable; it gives a capstone and everything.

All in all, these seem to have a lot of fiddly abilities. The Avengers get a new pool of daily uses of powers they pick, Exorcists get to pick new binder-like abilities each day, there is some weirdness with Domains (wouldn't it be easier to just let them take a domain in terms of spells from each god, and the domain power of one of those domains changable each day?).

It's kind of odd that Apart from Reality doesn't offer a save, but I guess binders have a variety of powers to use so cutting off one of them isn't a huge deal.

It makes me a little sad that Exorcists don't get a real capstone, but that's understandable.

Your classes clearly hate each other, which is good.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-05, 11:23 PM
Okay, so CLEARLY Xallace and I went a little overboard with these classes ... I couldn't get EITHER of them to fit on one post each. We're talking about a combined 100,000 characters between the two of us! That's just mind-boggling ...

Anyway, I am working on fixing up the formatting right now. With so much text, it needs to be easy on the eyes, so I should have that done in the next 10 minutes or so. In the meantime, I hope everyone enjoys two classes that never was and that can simply not exist. I'll have a concept statement shortly on behalf of Xallace and I :D.

Hmmm...I'll admit, I'm intimidated by that amount of text and, as a player, would probably avoid the classes based on that alone...I can't really skim the class for an idea of what it is, as it's more complex than many base classes I've seen. That turns me away from it, but others may find their mileage vary.

Golden-Esque
2010-03-06, 04:32 AM
Um... were you intending that only a 10th level Exorcist would be able to use those abilities? Because that seems workable; it gives a capstone and everything.

Perhaps I should make it more clear. Basically, as you level you can choose to either channel more deities (up to three of the four) or choose to increase your powers with one; essentially you double or triple channel deities depending on your level. So all of the abilities that say "you must be channeling three shards of X deitiy's divinity" are all capstones; some of which are pretty cool.


All in all, these seem to have a lot of fiddly abilities. The Avengers get a new pool of daily uses of powers they pick, Exorcists get to pick new binder-like abilities each day, there is some weirdness with Domains (wouldn't it be easier to just let them take a domain in terms of spells from each god, and the domain power of one of those domains changable each day?).

And here, my good man, you have discovered the key aspect of the classes. The Binders gain abilities similar spells and the Clerics gain something similar to binding. At the end of the day, despite all of their hatred, how different are these two groups? They're both channeling something into their souls with no other purpose in the world but to wipe each other out.


It's kind of odd that Apart from Reality doesn't offer a save, but I guess binders have a variety of powers to use so cutting off one of them isn't a huge deal.

Its designed to be a flat-out "NO." ability. It works on virtually anything, but can only be used once per day. Considering all of the ridiculous things that the Avenger can do, we felt that the Exorcist needed to be able to put their foot down.


It makes me a little sad that Exorcists don't get a real capstone, but that's understandable.

They do, they're just as well-hidden as their organization :). (See above)


Your classes clearly hate each other, which is good.

A wise professor of mine once said, "Once something becomes a moral issue, there's no reconciling it."


Hmmm...I'll admit, I'm intimidated by that amount of text and, as a player, would probably avoid the classes based on that alone...I can't really skim the class for an idea of what it is, as it's more complex than many base classes I've seen. That turns me away from it, but others may find their mileage vary.

It kinda disappoints me that you'd pass over it simply because its verbose, Djinn :(. Really, much of the wordiness comes from the fluff more then anything though I do admit that the Hallows are quite intricate. However, the theme of "When do I become my enemy?" was the biggest point of these classes, and since Xallace gave the Exorcists Vestige-like powers, it only seemed fitting that I'd give the Avengers Spell-like powers. Never content with simply tacking on spells from another source that didn't fit my needs, I made a new resource system.

Also, the page does get some wordiness from the fact that there's a brand-new Vestige a la Seropaenes within it :). In all, I hope you'll reconsider your dismissal and give it a look; Xallace and I both said "Djinn is going to LOVE these" as we made the classes :smallbiggrin:.

Xzoltar
2010-03-06, 06:51 AM
Scion of Awesomene : The class look nice, need some tweaks to fit in most game, however like the Inexhaustible Awesome.

Clerk of the Mundane : Well to be honest I find that this is too... Mundane... The class dont gain anything I really find interesting and wil lactually want to have as a character and the Clerk code don't help with that, we have a good example of a character with John Smith, really not my game, sorry.

Lord-Wardens of the Silent Cage : Th Concept if nice, seem quite powerful, but its Epic, so it need to be. Lacking few powers make it hard to comment, waiting for the complete work.

Illustrious One : I am missing Unbounded Excellence ? Nice Epic Bard PrC (Sublime Chord or using lot of Improved Spell Capacity), I really like it even if I find that its quite powerful even for epic. The Illustrious Presence (Glory) at lvl 40 will give +20 Hit dice (max 39 HD) I guess its only racial HD so usally gaining Humanoid HD ? Its a lot I think for Followers, not that much for Companions or Cohort. I can see a Salient Divine Power giving Virtual Class level equal to half your lvl in the Illustrious One. I also like it becoming a Divine Beeing, any readon why rank 6 ?

Anchored Guardian : Lacking capstone and high lvl abilities will comment later.

Seed of Corruption : Lot of work to do...

White Wolf Ascendant : I like the improvement of Combat Focus and the use of it, something lot most have missed from PHB2. However I think that overall the PrC dont give enough to be worth taking. Both Focus are not really strong and restricted. Easy requirement, but I see a weakened monk here. But I like the Fluff.

Black Wolf Warrior : Too bad this one is 5 level and the other 10 level. I think White Wolf should also have been a 5 lvl PrC. This one give also Monk-like Power but that I find could be nice also for a Barbarian type character. Nicely done, and fluff of both PrC is really nice.

Onyxian Dreamer : Using Mysteries, nice thing not lot use this so nice to have some homebrew for it. The concept is so nice of a Dream Walker. You got a good mix of Draming and Awake class so he's not jsut useful when dreaming. I will certainly use it for one of my NPC who is a Dream Master.

Temple Waker : Another nice PrC with Archivist support this is nice I like the different power it gain, nothing feel out of place, nicely done, no more words.

for the other one will have to comment later need to go to work...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-06, 10:37 AM
Also, the page does get some wordiness from the fact that there's a brand-new Vestige a la Seropaenes within it :). In all, I hope you'll reconsider your dismissal and give it a look; Xallace and I both said "Djinn is going to LOVE these" as we made the classes :smallbiggrin:.

Hell, I'm definitely reading the things. That was my gut instinct as a player, not as a homebrewer and contest participant! And they seem interesting, so I personally would read them anyway. Just saying that you might be scaring people off... :smallbiggrin:

Also, Xoltar, what you see are the weakest of the Illustrious One's powers. :smallbiggrin:

And the Divine Rank is 6 because that's where being a Lesser Deity beings, and the Illustrious Ones are above the Demigod rank. Their Salient Divine Powers are also included in that block, as I wanted to keep tabs on which ones they got (the simplest ones to add, so as not to confuse players unduly).

Divayth Fyr
2010-03-06, 10:40 AM
Perhaps I should make it more clear. Basically, as you level you can choose to either channel more deities (up to three of the four) or choose to increase your powers with one; essentially you double or triple channel deities depending on your level. So all of the abilities that say "you must be channeling three shards of X deitiy's divinity" are all capstones; some of which are pretty cool.

I might be missing something, but doesn't the bolded part prevent one from channeling three shards of one god?

At 10th level, a Seropaenean Exorcist can gain the Investitures of up to three gods at the same time, though they can still only gain a maximum of two shards of divinity from any one god.

Other then that, I have to say I love the Seropaenean classes - the irony of them becoming more alike is too good to pass :smallbiggrin:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-06, 11:13 AM
To repost, in case Pronoun (:smalltongue:) missed my comment on the last page:



Also, the page does get some wordiness from the fact that there's a brand-new Vestige a la Seropaenes within it :). In all, I hope you'll reconsider your dismissal and give it a look; Xallace and I both said "Djinn is going to LOVE these" as we made the classes :smallbiggrin:.

Hell, I'm definitely reading the things. That was my gut instinct as a player, not as a homebrewer and contest participant! And they seem interesting, so I personally would read them anyway. Just saying that you might be scaring people off... :smallbiggrin:

Feh...verboseness keeping me from critiquing a work...have you read some of my entries? I'd just be unlikely to read through these classes while browsing. If I were making a binder, however... :smalltongue:

In fact, here's a review. :smallbiggrin:


SEROPAENEAN AVENGER

Nicely flavored, with a touch of awesome and a pinch of interesting mechanics. That said, you have a few things that worry me, and one obvious error in the text.

The obvious error? Hallowed Might ends with the sentence "An Avenger ou can only use this ability once per encounter at will. " I assume you meant "An Avenger may use this ability once per encounter," which means the same thing mechanically, but in a much more concise manner.

As to what I'm concerned about:

The Hallows: I really like the idea, but you're stacking tons of non-increasing standard action uses on the Avengers, and then limiting them both by the number of times daily (a pitiful 1/effective binder level), and on a per-round basis. I can't help but feel this is very weak, although the abilities themselves are very flavorful. Empower Gift, the only way to really get some bang for your buck, is limited to 3/day...maybe consider making most (if not all) of the non-crippling ones a Swift action to activate? Some (obviously those best suited to attacks) should remain standard actions.

Anyway, I'm not sure it's a problem, per se, but it's definitely something to think about.

Hallowed Might: This ability is decent, but not worth the vestige's level of my already limited supply of Hallows. Maybe at the cost of one Hallow, or even 1/encounter for free...

Twilight's Dancing Thorns: This is a very strange ability, and VERY heavy on the bookkeeping. I'm not sure how the radius works (I have a rough idea, but an example might be helpful), and, honestly, it just doesn't seem to make that much sense. It can also get out of hand insanely quickly, as well as bog down combat with unnecessary rolls for a fairly low-key effect.

The Pact: Finally, given the vestige's hatred of the order, I don't think he'd ever make a good pact. In fact, I sort of like it better if the Avengers must always attack or belittle the Order when they find them...

Exorcist review to come.

Golden-Esque
2010-03-06, 09:45 PM
I might be missing something, but doesn't the bolded part prevent one from channeling three shards of one god?

That's a book keeping error. Sorry! I'll go fix that now :).



Other then that, I have to say I love the Seropaenean classes - the irony of them becoming more alike is too good to pass :smallbiggrin:

^_^


To repost, in case Pronoun (:smalltongue:) missed my comment on the last page:

t-t


Hell, I'm definitely reading the things. That was my gut instinct as a player, not as a homebrewer and contest participant! And they seem interesting, so I personally would read them anyway. Just saying that you might be scaring people off... :smallbiggrin:

I'm kinda hoping to suck them up with delicious flavor and fluff ...


Feh...verboseness keeping me from critiquing a work...have you read some of my entries? I'd just be unlikely to read through these classes while browsing. If I were making a binder, however... :smalltongue:

Yay!


Nicely flavored, with a touch of awesome and a pinch of interesting mechanics. That said, you have a few things that worry me, and one obvious error in the text.

The obvious error? Hallowed Might ends with the sentence "An Avenger can only use this ability once per encounter at will. " I assume you meant "An Avenger may use this ability once per encounter," which means the same thing mechanically, but in a much more concise manner.

The idea was that you could use the power to refresh an ability at any time, including during another creature's turn. It's sort of a Butter-Battle-Book to the Seropaenean Exorcist's "Apart from Reality" ability. But you'll read more on that later, and I'll fix the wording up :P.


As to what I'm concerned about:

The Hallows: I really like the idea, but you're stacking tons of non-increasing standard action uses on the Avengers, and then limiting them both by the number of times daily (a pitiful 1/effective binder level), and on a per-round basis. I can't help but feel this is very weak, although the abilities themselves are very flavorful. Empower Gift, the only way to really get some bang for your buck, is limited to 3/day...maybe consider making most (if not all) of the non-crippling ones a Swift action to activate? Some (obviously those best suited to attacks) should remain standard actions.

Well, considering that every Hallow only expends 1 charge each, I didn't see 1/Binder level to be pitiful at all. Not to mention when you first get Hallows at 2nd Level, you have 3 Hallows known with 9 uses per day. I felt that was pretty generous, personally. I agree that I can probably do away with the 5 round cooldown between Hallow uses, but I felt the restriction on Wards was necessary to prevent one from stacking many of their crazy wards.

If anyone has any other suggestions for the Hallows, I'd love to hear them since they're the core function of the class.


Hallowed Might: This ability is decent, but not worth the vestige's level of my already limited supply of Hallows. Maybe at the cost of one Hallow, or even 1/encounter for free...

I thought about this one, and I agree. It now only costs 1 Hallow to use the ability, and it doesn't have a number per day. I figure that if you want to use your Hallows to reactivate your 5 round powers, then go for it.


Twilight's Dancing Thorns: This is a very strange ability, and VERY heavy on the bookkeeping. I'm not sure how the radius works (I have a rough idea, but an example might be helpful), and, honestly, it just doesn't seem to make that much sense. It can also get out of hand insanely quickly, as well as bog down combat with unnecessary rolls for a fairly low-key effect.

I agree that this power is confusing, so tell me if this version of it makes more sense.

"You can activate this power as a standard action, and as part of this power you make a single melee attack. If this attack deals damage, a circle of Twilight Thorns extends from the struck creature; the radius is equal to one foot per damage dealt by this attack. Twilight Thorns function similarly to caltrops, except they have a Base Attack Bonus and Strength score equal to your own. Despite this, a successful attack from the twilight thorns deals 1 damage; the Strength bonus is not applied and in addition, shoes do not grant a +2 bonus to Armor Class against twilight thorns. Each time a patch of Twilight Thorns deals damage, it increases its radius by 1 foot per damage dealt.

You can only ever have one patch of twilight thorns active at a time; using this power again causes the previous patch of thorns to vanish, and they automatically vanish at the end of an encounter."


The Pact: Finally, given the vestige's hatred of the order, I don't think he'd ever make a good pact. In fact, I sort of like it better if the Avengers must always attack or belittle the Order when they find them...

Seropaenes hated Binders, yes, and he might still continue to hate them. However, he despises Herioneous, St. Cuthbert, Vecna, and Wee Jas for banishing him from reality after he faithfully served them for the entirety of his adult life. It isn't impossible to make a pact with Seropaene, especially for the Seropaenean Order of Vengeance because they are his best tools for retribution.

Also, he's been a Vestige for a LONG time. Minimum of 176 years for the Lore (as a number is given to one of the Captains of the Exorcist), which is plenty of time for the strains of being a Vestige to warp one's mind.

Thanks for the Reviews, Djinn and Karpik! Hoping for some more soon :).

Owrtho
2010-03-06, 10:09 PM
Grrr. If anyone hears from Kellus, tell him to pm me about the contest. While I rather like the partner idea, it is somewhat troublesome when one's partner disappears partway through.

Owrtho

Kallisti
2010-03-07, 01:00 PM
You know, I was kind of hoping Bobmuffin and I could squeak by on flavor and intriguing concept and get at least like third or fourth place...

We've officially been blown out of the water. I certainly still intend to finish and post my piece, but...wow. Djinn/Gareth's entry is (surprise, surprise) excellent, and Hyooz/Thrice Dead Cat have my favorite so far, and I've always loved the order of Saeropanes' fluff and the Saeropanean entries do a really good job and--

Meh. I never wanted that silly banner anyway. *Sniffle* Even though it would have fit so perfectly on my wall...there's always the next contest, though!

JoshuaZ
2010-03-07, 04:18 PM
I really like the Seropaenes related classes (and they fit well with an idea I had a while back for a PrC that maybe I should hurry up and post at some point).

One minor issue for now: Seropaenes should probably have some small special requirement for binding. Fluff-wise some small number of ranks in knowledge(religion) would make sense. Maybe 2 ranks?

Golden-Esque
2010-03-07, 04:47 PM
I really like the Seropaenes related classes (and they fit well with an idea I had a while back for a PrC that maybe I should hurry up and post at some point).

One minor issue for now: Seropaenes should probably have some small special requirement for binding. Fluff-wise some small number of ranks in knowledge(religion) would make sense. Maybe 2 ranks?

I do agree that there should something for a Special Requirement, and its something Djinn pointed out early about Seropaenes disliking Binders. However, the enemy of an enemy is a friend, and thus the following Special Requirement was born.


Seropaenes will not manifest before any ordinary Binder, for he still carries a strong dislike for practitioners of Pact Magic despite the agony he received for his loyal services against them. In order to call forth Seropaenes, a Binder must present four Holy Symbols: one from each Herioneous, St. Cuthbert, Wee Jas, and Vecna. Each of these Holy Symbols must be snapped in half and they are not consumed or destroyed during the summoning process. Alternatively, if the Binder manages to gain a Holy Symbol of the Order of Seropaenes, this may be substituted.

What do you think?

JoshuaZ
2010-03-07, 05:00 PM
What do you think?

I like that a lot. Very fluffy but with minimal mechanical inconvenience. Excellent Special Requirement.

Xzoltar
2010-03-07, 11:27 PM
Only about a week left and some entries still need lot of work.. hurry us guys :p

Still waiting for Lord-Wardens of the Silent Cage abilities that are still not yet described, go Djinn help Lord Gareth :smallbiggrin:

Owrtho
2010-03-08, 06:16 PM
Where be Kellus when I need him.

Owrtho

Bhu
2010-03-08, 07:50 PM
Seed of Corruption is up for the most part (I still need to finish the example NPC and maybe tighten the fluff). Anyone have any thoughts?

JoshuaZ
2010-03-08, 10:50 PM
Seed of Corruption is up for the most part (I still need to finish the example NPC and maybe tighten the fluff). Anyone have any thoughts?

A few.


After all teh Realms do have a bit of a reputation...
Typo.

Also for the table could you split up the casting class into its own column? This is a minor formatting issue that would make it slightly easier to read.


Your alignment changes, and if you are Good or Evil you become Neutral instead. You also lose any Lawful components of your Alignment and are considered a Native of the Far Realms.

I'm confused how this fits in with the requirement that you cannot be Good or Lawful for qualifying for the class.

Corrupt Others - this seems worrisome. Can I use this on my friends in the party to give them extra templates without any real drawback? At minimum, I think it may make sense for their to be some serious cost to this. Maybe a tiny bit of xp, say 5 xp per a use. Or maybe only an xp use if the being had an int of at least 3.

Corrupt Terrain - does the Seed specify which attribute or is it randomly chosen?

Regarding the skill requirements for the class, "Knowledge (Arcane) 18 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 18 ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 18 ranks" that seems pretty heavy. And it means that pretty much no one but a simple wizard can qualify. Since wizards only get 2+int skill points a level, this means that they need to drop a very large fraction of their skill points into Knowledge(Nature) and Knowledge(The Planes). Not only is that unfortunate for the wizard, but it doesn't fit very well with the fluff since this is not the sort of PrC that you plan on entering in advance. Maybe reduce the Knowledge(Nature) and Knowledge(The Planes) to something like 10 ranks in both? That's still a pretty hefty burden but it isn't nearly as extreme and it allows other classes to have a chance at actually qualifying.

Golden-Esque
2010-03-08, 11:17 PM
When I sat down to think about it, I am a simple man. I enjoy rulings that don't require me to gouge my own eyes out to understand (unless I'm playing a diabolical class, in which case such a sacrifice is understandable). As Djinn pointed out, however, Twilight Thorns was far too complicated, despite being fun and flavorful. However, it was fun and flavorful enough that I didn't want to just drop it, so here's the new, recalculated version of Twilight Thorns!


Twilight's Dancing Thorns (Su): The ultimate technique of the Seropaenean Avengers utilizes the life energy of their foes; more specifically, the destruction of it. Starting at 10th level, whenever a Seropaenean Avenger deals damage to a creature, their life force bleeds out of their wounds. The near symbiotic association that Seropaenean Avengers have with Vestiges and the energies associated with those Vestiges corrupts this life force, transforming it into twilight thorns. Each time an Avenger deals damage to a creature, twilight thorns row on the ground surrounding the creature in a burst; the area of this effect is equal to the damage dealt. The area affected by twilight thorns is treated as being covered in caltrops, except the twilight thorns use the Avenger's Base Attack Bonus in order to attack creatures that move within their area, their Strength score is equal to the Avenger's Effective Binder Level (maximum 20 for a +5 bonus to their attack rolls) and shoes provide no additional bonus to Armor Class against twilight thorns. Other than this, twilight thorns work exactly like caltrops (they even only deal 1 point of damage on a successful attack regardless of their Strength score). Each time a twilight thorn deals damage to a creature, the energy pools together and forms into twilight essence which sprouts into additional thorns. Each time a twilight thorn deals damage to a creature, the area of the twilight thorns effect that damaged the creature increases by 1 foot. If two areas of twilight thorns overlap, they join together into a single area. Your twilight thorns never make attack rolls against you, and you can move through their area without penalty. The twilight thorns slowly die off if no new damage is dealt; each round that the twilight thorns do not increase their area, their area is instead decreased by 1 foot.


Twilight's Dancing Thorns (Su): The ultimate technique of the Seropaenean Avengers utilizes the life energy of their foes; more specifically, the destruction of it. Starting at 10th level, whenever a Seropaenean Avenger deals damage to a creature, their life force bleeds out of their wounds. The near symbiotic association that Seropaenean Avengers have with Vestiges and the energies associated with those Vestiges corrupts this life force, transforming it into twilight thorns. Each time an Avenger deals damage to a creature, twilight thorns wrap around the creature, ensnaring it with deadly thorns that make it painful for the creature to move. The creature moves as if every square they move into had caltrops within it, with the following exceptions. The Twilight Thorns gain a bonus to their attack roles made against the creature equal to the Avenger's Base Attack Bonus and the Twilight Thorns have a Strength score equal to the Avenger's Effective Binder Level (maximum 20). Also, shoes and deflection bonuses provide no bonus to Armor Class against Twilight Thorns. Finally, Twilight Thorns deal damage equal to their Strength modifier +1. Subsequent attacks on the same creature have no addition effect, but an Avenger can affect as many creatures with Twilight Thorns as they can wound in combat.

I leave it to you, Playgrounders. Which version of the ability is the easiest to understand and / or most fun?

JoshuaZ
2010-03-08, 11:20 PM
I leave it to you, Playgrounders. Which version of the ability is the easiest to understand and / or most fun?

I prefer the first one but only slightly. The simplicity of the second probably makes it better for some purposes. And the class already has a lot of new mechanics and is pretty wordy. So, um, I don't know?

Glimbur
2010-03-09, 12:04 PM
It's simpler and more elegant the second way, but are caltrops the best way to mechanically model what you want? Consider making it act like a wall of Thorns if you want it to really be inconvenient, possibly a wall of thorns that can be seen through. Or model it after Entangle, or any of a number of battlefield control spells. I'm concerned that you will end up making a lot of attack rolls and it's... not very powerful.

DracoDei
2010-03-09, 12:16 PM
I would at least specify that they count as Magical for the purposes of by-passing DR.

Bhu
2010-03-09, 04:08 PM
A few.


I made some changes. Hows it look now?

Bhu
2010-03-09, 04:09 PM
Where be Kellus when I need him.

Owrtho
Did you PM him?

Owrtho
2010-03-09, 04:21 PM
Did you PM him?

Indeed. We were communicating via pm the first few days before he stopped responding.

Owrtho

Vaynor
2010-03-09, 04:42 PM
Ok, I've posted the first part of me and DaTedinator's entry. His will be up in a bit.

Basically, both classes fight for the greater good but disagree with the methods used to do so. A disciple of the nine uses the evil forces of the archdevils to achieve his goals, while a supplicant of the seven turns to the holy power of the archons instead.

Comments/criticism would be awesome. :smallsmile:

Glimbur
2010-03-09, 05:11 PM
The SR at level 6 isn't big enough to matter much. You've got SR 16 at ECL 12ish, which means an equivalent level caster needs to roll a 3 or less to fail against your SR. I'd change it to 15+class level.


gaining summon monster IX (baatezu only) as a spell-like ability
Is there some sort of per day limit on this? I hope so.

Pain Points are... interesting. I'd want to cast a Holy Word and/or Blasphemy at five higher CL than my ECL would suggest. Throw in Practiced Spellcaster and Prayer Beads and Divine Spell Power and you can straight up kill people with as many HD as you have. Amusingly, I think you would also paste yourself due to to
if a spell or effect has a different effect depending on their alignment, treat him as whichever has the stronger effect and the lack of IFF on Holy Word and company.

It's annoying bookkeeping to track damage from the 7th level Sacrifice ability.

What does the asterisk at the very end of the new feat mean?

Vaynor
2010-03-09, 05:20 PM
The SR at level 6 isn't big enough to matter much. You've got SR 16 at ECL 12ish, which means an equivalent level caster needs to roll a 3 or less to fail against your SR. I'd change it to 15+class level.

It should be 10 + level (usually the norm for spell resistance). Just checked and that's correct, the ability says "level" not "class level".


Is there some sort of per day limit on this? I hope so.

The ability is as-listed in the BoVD (I forgot to include that information, changed now), which I just realized does not explicitly state the number of uses per day. It should be 1/day.


Pain Points are... interesting. I'd want to cast a Holy Word and/or Blasphemy at five higher CL than my ECL would suggest. Throw in Practiced Spellcaster and Prayer Beads and Divine Spell Power and you can straight up kill people with as many HD as you have. Amusingly, I think you would also paste yourself due to to and the lack of IFF on Holy Word and company.

So do you think I should reduce the maximum expended and increase the amount of damage necessary to gain them?


It's annoying bookkeeping to track damage from the 7th level Sacrifice ability.

I wasn't sure how to deal with this. DaTedinator suggested no magical healing whatsoever, but I don't see that as being any easier to deal with and I definitely want some inhibitor on the healing for damage taken from this ability. Suggestions on a fix?


What does the asterisk at the very end of the new feat mean?

That would be a copy-paste from Google Wave error. Fixed.

Glimbur
2010-03-09, 05:29 PM
It should be 10 + level (usually the norm for spell resistance). Just checked and that's correct, the ability says "level" not "class level".
.

Make it "character level" just to be entirely clear.


Honestly, the problem with Pain Points is really the problem with Holy Word and company being a straight CL v HD check without a save. Throw those spells out and you're better at piercing SR and some spells are a little better. I wouldn't worry about it.

Vaynor
2010-03-09, 05:35 PM
Make it "character level" just to be entirely clear.


Honestly, the problem with Pain Points is really the problem with Holy Word and company being a straight CL v HD check without a save. Throw those spells out and you're better at piercing SR and some spells are a little better. I wouldn't worry about it.

In D&D, level always means character level as opposed to class level, which refers to levels in that specific class. I can specify though, no big deal.

Ok, sounds good. Thanks for the help. :smallsmile:

Ok, now we've got both classes up. Any thoughts on the supplicant of the seven?

DracoDei
2010-03-09, 08:41 PM
Going to pust this publicly so all may be edified by it...

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Knowledge (Arcane) 10 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 10 ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 10 ranks
Should be "Arcana".


Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration, Transmutation)
Arcane Casting: Must be able to cast 7th level Arcane spells, and must know the following spells: Baleful Polymorph, Planar Tolerance, Plane Shift, Polymorph
Special: Must have traveled to the Far Realms, and encountered one of the godlike powers of that place and survived transformation into a Seed

Mechanically I am not seeing much of a cost here that is being given up to get into this 5/5 casting class.



Corrupted Body (Su): Your Type changes to Outsider with the Extraplanar Subtype. Your alignment changes, and if you are Good or Evil you become Neutral instead. You also lose any Lawful components of your Alignment and are considered a Native of the Far Realms.

Always nice for avoiding those "______ Person" spells.


Corrupt Others (Su): At will as a Supernatural Ability the Seed can make a Melee Touch Attack against any living corporeal being. If the being fails a Fortitude Save (Save DC is 10 plus 1/2 HD plus Int Modifier) he gains the Pseudonatural Template (see Complete Arcane or Manual of the Planes) or the Half Farspawn Template (See Lords of Madness). The victim also ceases to view the Seed as an enemy so long as the Seed doesn't attack him first (this does not necessarily translate into being immediately loyal to the caster). If this ability is used on members of a party, they do not level up until enough xp is gained to compensate for their new abilities. For example if the Template is +3 LA, the PC must gain enough experience to advance 4 levels before gaining another class level.

Change "plus" to "+" I think...

Also the "get the template THEN play for it" thing might be seen as overpowered.



Corrupt Terrain (Su): Once per week as a Supernatural Ability the Seed can 'lose' one spell of the highest level it can cast as a Full Round Action. The spell converts an area equal to (Spell Level x10 in feet cubed) to conditions resembling those of the Far Realms. Each time this ability is used the area gains one Trait (Gravity, Alignment, etc) of the Far Realms (see Manual of the Planes page 211, Seed decides which Trait is gained).

Specify that the spell is "lost as if used to cast the spell that it contained, but without the spell's usual effect, instead..." Otherwise it sounds like you are losing the spell-slot perminantly. Also, you do realize that as stated if you use a 9th level spell slot you effect an area 3' x 3' x 10' or something of equal size... right?


Pierce Veil (Su): Once a Seed has used it's Corrupt Terrain ability to completely convert an area to resemble the Far Realms, any beings native to the Far Realms (or that have been converted via the Corrupt Others ability) that have a spell cast on them designed to return them to their native Plane (such as Dismissal) gain a +2 Bonus to their Save DC while within that area.

Should be "+2 bonus on any saving throw against spells or effects designed to return them to their home plane."


Rend Veil (Su): At 4th level the Seed if the Seed casts Gate within an Area that qualifies for his Pierce Veil ability, and 'loses' an additional 9th level spell, that Gate remains open for a number of days equal to your Intelligence Modifier). You cannot call creatures through it, but you may use it for planar travel.

Yeah... this is the ability that makes this guy the most dangerous to planar stability... not as much use for players etc, but very useful for the flavor.


Final Apotheosis (Ex): At 5th level you gain all the benefits of the Half Farspawn Template.

Don't know what that does, but it sounds cool...


PLAYING A SEED OF CORRUPTION
Secrecy is your friend. No one must discover what or who you are, and you will sacrifice anything to prevent that. Because once they discover you, they will likewise sacrifice anything to stop you. And your discovery may lead to a search for others of your kind and you are all too rare to have any losses.
Combat: You were not intended to travel to the Prime Material to fight. That is best left to others, make sure to surround yourself with appropriate hirelings of various kinds. They are expendable, they can do the fighting. Eventually you will have more forceful guards...
Advancement: Once someone has taken a level in this Prestige Class they may not take levels in other classes until they have all 10 levels of this one. The class represents ongoing mutations to their body and mind, and they do not stop because the victim wishes them to.
Resources: You are generally spat out in the Prime Material and left to your own devices. There are more of you, and there are cults dedicated to helping you, but you can't rely on them for help until you find them. Until that happens you're effectively cast adrift with nothing to help you.

SEEDS OF CORRUPTION IN THE WORLD
“Our earth is degenerate in these latter days; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; and the end of the world is evidently approaching.”

You spend your time being helpful, kind, and generous. You give the outwards appearance of a model citizen in order to make sure others have no reason to suspect you. That way no inquisitive parties think about suspecting you let alone pursue you when odd events happen. Often times they even ask for your help. And you provide it willingly, knowing you may get the chance to corrupt them in the near future.
Daily Life: You spend a great deal of time indulging the illusion of being a normal citizen in urban areas, slowing your plans down, and requiring you o get the aid of cultists. If you are in a wild untamed land, you spend your days doing little but converting the area into raw chaos for your masters.
Notables: Akane (CN Human Female Wizard 15/Seed of Corruption 1) is a newly created Seed haunting the remote mountain passes near a major city.
Organizations: Various odd cults pop up around the Seeds devoted to worshiping their masters and expanding the Far Realms influence. But none seems to have gained much power beyond the local level, rarely influencing areas larger than a large city/state. These cults are not necessarily cooperative as the Seeds may have been formed by different Lords.

NPC Reaction
PC's generally regard the Seeds of Corruption with absolute terror once they realize what they are. Otherwise it's assumed they're the usual odd mage with eccentrc habits, but once it's realized they're parasitized pawns of the Lords of the Far Realms people tend to go into gibbering panic. After all the Realms do have a bit of a reputation...

SEEDS OF CORRUPTION IN THE GAME
This is a class prone to horrifying deeds, not necessarily because you're evil, but because good and evil are now foreign concepts to you. You don't think of what you're doing as wrong so much as helping people prepare for what's coming. You're doing them a favor. In other words you're crazy, and the DM should make sure players are comfortable with this.
Adaptation: This is meant for campaigns which are fairly dark or have a horror theme, and may possibly go into the other Planes at higher levels. If your players have no intention of dimension hopping it may require some modification.

This isn't what normally goes in this spot. This needs to be a 1st level class feature.

Encounters: Seeds of Corruption rarely have a set schedule or plan, and can be found almost anywhere they can hide (preferably in plain sight). Many prefer isolated locations far from intelligent species and cities, and others use the cities as their initial cover to spread their cults.

If they are meant to be cult leaders, you PROBABLY want to give them Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and maybe even Gather Information...


Sample Encounter
The PC's have been asked to discover what has been causing the appearance of horribly mutated and misshapen animals and plant life at a local village 2 days ride from the city. Arriving they find signs of the same corrupting influence on the local inhabitants, with the exception of a young woman who seems unmarked (and desperate to leave).
EL 16: Akane appears to be a young human woman, and is currently converting or destroying small villages within range of her mountain home in preparation for building into an assault on the nearby major city. She has short black hair and dark eyes and sometimes seems half elven. In her true form she also has pointed ears and small horns.

Sample character sounds good so far...

Bhu
2010-03-09, 08:57 PM
Going to pust this publicly so all may be edified by it...

Mechanically I am not seeing much of a cost here that is being given up to get into this 5/5 casting class.

I looked at teh Archmage for thoughts on prerequisites since i vaguely modeled it on that since it's also a 5 level PrC requiring you to be 15th level to get into it.



Always nice for avoiding those "______ Person" spells.
At 15th level just to enter this class I doubt many will be trying those spells on you anyway.




Also the "get the template THEN play for it" thing might be seen as overpowered. It was mentioned earlier there had to be a cost. I thought that would be preferable to some of the alternatives. Most PC's would still reject it since it meant forever before they got more levels. The transformation also means they are now natives to the Far Realm and have their alignments altered, which some would object to.



Specify that the spell is "lost as if used to cast the spell that it contained, but without the spell's usual effect, instead..." Otherwise it sounds like you are losing the spell-slot perminantly. Also, you do realize that as stated if you use a 9th level spell slot you effect an area 3' x 3' x 10' or something of equal size... right?

Modified that somewhat. And no, as it reads if I used a 9th level spell its 90' cubed in area.



If they are meant to be cult leaders, you PROBABLY want to give them Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and maybe even Gather Information...

Their converts flock to them because the Seed is converting reality to be more like the Far Realm, which is where they will now be wishing to live (or already do in the case of planar traveling entities), or because they wish to be converted into monsters. He doesn't rule cults by skill or guile but by power and 'divine right'. The power players back in the realm made him/her/it/they the envoy of their realm, so they're the official channel to the squid beings upstairs for lack of a better term. Think about it whose gonna say no to a 16th level Wizard who has alien Gods backing him up?

DracoDei
2010-03-09, 09:04 PM
It was mentioned earlier there had to be a cost. I thought that would be preferable to some of the alternatives. Most PC's would still reject it since it meant forever before they got more levels. The transformation also means they are now natives to the Far Realm and have their alignments altered, which some would object to.

X points of ability Burn distributed at players option across mental ability scores that don't go away until you have bought off/gained the level for the level they go with?
So if you have LA +3 and it is 3 per level then your fellow wizard can take 9 points of penality to his charisma score... when he buys off 1 point of LA then the penalty goes down to -6. Later, when he gains a level it goes towards LA and then the charisma penalty is only -3... call it their minds breaking catastrophically and then reforming in a new mold... might not be the most balanced penalty in the world, but it is better than nothing.

Glimbur
2010-03-09, 09:32 PM
Modified that somewhat. And no, as it reads if I used a 9th level spell its 90' cubed in area.

90 cubic feet is much smaller than a cube 90 feet on each side, which seems to be what you want.

Alternate idea: make the transformation cost levels to PC's and cohorts and such. Not to NPC's though, as that lets you seriously mess up enemies. Give them more CR instead. Or, make the full transformation willing only and make the unwilling transformation temporary.

Golden-Esque
2010-03-10, 01:51 AM
It's simpler and more elegant the second way, but are caltrops the best way to mechanically model what you want? Consider making it act like a wall of Thorns if you want it to really be inconvenient, possibly a wall of thorns that can be seen through. Or model it after Entangle, or any of a number of battlefield control spells. I'm concerned that you will end up making a lot of attack rolls and it's... not very powerful.

I'm familiar with Entangle, and that's not really what I'm going for. I looked up Wall of Thorns, and I didn't really like it, though I changed the Thorn's damage to be equal to "25 plus the thorn's Strength modifier, minus the affected creature's Armor Class (deflection and dodge bonuses to Armor Class are ignored)." I also changed the ability as Dracodei suggested and made sure that the ability specified that the attacks did magical damage. To that end, I added a line about incorporeal and ethereal creatures. Basically, if you were able to damage the creature, it's affected by Twilight Thorns.

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-10, 03:25 PM
The Mechanics are Done! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7968378#post7968378)

Expect Fluff to be INCOMING SHORTLY!

Bhu
2010-03-10, 06:52 PM
I has revised again

DracoDei
2010-03-10, 10:20 PM
Added the long quote from the guardsman, "My Home is Large", and "Greater Timeless Body".

"All of You Go Home!", "All of You Go Home NOW!", and "Rebuilding My Home" are all incomplete as of this time.

EDIT: Considering spreading Greater Timeless Body over more levels, perhaps a 1, 2, 1, 2, spread, or maybe even combining Timeless Body into it, and having it start at level 10 and doing a point at each level... what do people think? (And yes, I realize it doesn't make a difference to most PCs...)

DracoDei
2010-03-11, 07:50 PM
Started doing up the example character on The Tangled Web* (which I always use to create my example characters before copying them over to forum code). This lead to me adding Spider Climb to their spell list (under Travel My Territory), adding several class skills, bumping skill points to 6 + Int, and giving them class level to sense motive checks against outsiders. I am really trying to emphasize their capabilities as inter-planar Customs and Immigration agents.


*Incidently there is some sort of alert generated about that site these days by my anti-virus, but I THINK it is just that some of the ads had malicious code in them if you clicked them.

Lord_Gareth
2010-03-13, 05:03 PM
I'd dearly appreciate any PEACHes that might come my way; in the meantime, expect fluff to come soon.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-13, 06:26 PM
I'd dearly appreciate any PEACHes that might come my way; in the meantime, expect fluff to come soon.

I hope to have the Illustrious Ones finished, but I lost power for most of today, and have recently had life hand me a metric ton of work, which must be done to ensure that I have employment/schooling in future years. No promises on its completion, sadly. :smallfrown:

Hyooz
2010-03-13, 08:21 PM
What the heck, I'll PEACH at you.



Entry Requirements
Base Attack Bonus: +15
Alignment: Any non-chaotic
Skills: Knowledge (The Planes) 12 ranks, Craft (Metalworking) 24 ranks
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Manacles)*, Any one Epic feat
Special: Must be able to use sixth-level or higher invocations, manuevers, powers, or spells.
Special: Must pass the Hollow Gauntlet (see Becoming a Lord-Warden of the Silent Cage, above)

* Indicates a new use for a published feat


Fairly standard epic PrC entry stuff (I can't believe I just said that.) I find the craft and EWP requirements questionable. Do the Lord-Wardens only recruit people who are already into making and using manacles? Also, you don't seem to make use of the manacle requirement stuff. Yeah, it's flavorful, and it doesn't hurt anything, but it makes qualifying an interesting question. Do you get these ranks after the Hollow gauntlet and you know you'll need to be a manacle-wielding master?



Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Manacles
A character with this feat may use manacles and masterwork manacles as one-handed weapons that deal 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, threatening a critical hit on a roll of 20 with a x3 modifier. Furthermore, they may choose to forgo a critical threat to instead grapple their opponent with the manacles, shackling them with a successful check.

A character with the Improved Grapple feat may choose to grapple with their manacles, substituting their normal grapple check with an attack roll made with the manacles opposed by their target's grapple check. They may, of course, also attack normally.


Eh, these are fine. It does end up requiring another feat to be able to actually... use manacles like manacles. What happens when you grapple with your manacles? Do you put them on the other person? How does this hinder them? How easy are they to break? How does freedom of movement interact with them? If this is elaborated on later, then cool.



Class Skills
The Class Name's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are....
Skills Points at Each Level: x + int

Hit Dice: D10


Might want to take a quick look at this and like... finish it. d10 hit die is fine.



Weapon Proficiencies: The Lord-Warden of the Silent Cage does not gain any new weapon or armor proficiencies.


It would make a lot more sense to me to drop the proficiency requirement and just give it to them here. Just a personal thing, though.



Class Features (Ex): At first level, and every two levels thereafter (so again at third, fifth, seventh, and ninth levels), the Lord-Warden of the Silent Cage gains features just as if he had advanced a level in a class he possessed before taking this one. Obviously, as an epic level character, the Lord-Warden does not increase his base attack bonus or saving throws, but he otherwise gains all special class abilities, spells known, spells per day, manuevers, power points, et cetera just as if he had gained a level in a class he possessed before he began taking levels in this one.

The Lord-Warden may choose a different class to gain features from each time he gains this class feature, but is under no obligation to do so. This ability does not affect the Lord-Warden's character level, though it might affect his caster level, initiator level, manifester level, et cetera.


This seems... cheap to me. I dunno. You get a LOT for being a Lord-Warden, making it also half of another class is pretty nice.



Empty Pathways (Su): All Lord-Wardens, upon receiving their badge of office, gain free access to the Hollow Bastion and the pathways which connect it to the rest of the multiverse. As a full-round action, the Lord-Warden may transport himself, all of his possessions, and anything he is holding in his hands (or restrained in a pair of manacles he is holding) to any plane within one "step" of the one the Hollow Bastion is attached to. For example, if the Hollow Bastion is currently attached to the Prime Material Plane of Oerth, the Warden could transport himself to the Ethereal Plane, the Astral Plane, or any of the Inner Planes, but not to the Nine Hells.

No matter where the Lord-Warden is, he may always transport himself to the Hollow Bastion as long as he is a member of the Wardens in good standing. Technically, he can transport himself there even if he is no longer a member in good standing, but his fate upon arrival would be both horrific and eternal, and thus most of those who fall out of the Warden's graces wisely choose not to do so.


This seems fine. Nothing too crazy, just jumping around.



Take 'Em Alive (Ex): There is always a way to incapacitate a being without doing permanent or irreprable harm to it; a Lord-Warden recieves no penalties for dealing nonlethal damage with a weapon, and may always deal nonlethal damage, even to beings who would otherwise be immune to it.

Fast healing, regeneration, and natural healing do not affect nonlethal damage dealt by a Lord-Warden of the Silent Cage, though magical healing will still recover it just fine.


Do you really want to be doing non-lethal damage at epic levels? I know there's the clause about normal recovery methods not working, but that has interesting implications too. Someone knocked unconscious by Lord-Warden nonlethal damage is out permanently? (Until magically healed)



Ward of the Bastion (Ex): The powerful protections of the Hollow Bastion reach out to shield its Lord-Wardens, allowing them to defend themselves against even the most insidious attacks. At level one, a Lord-Warden is entitled to a Fortitude save to resist spells or supernatural abilities that do not normally allow for one (DC = 10 + 1/2 the ability user's hit dice + the user's relevant ability score [primary casting/manifesting ability, constitution for extraordinary abilities, strength for manuevers, and charisma for miscellaneous supernatural or spell-like abilities]), and is entitled to spell and/or power resistance if he possesses any, even against spells and/or powers that do not allow for them.

At level one, these benefits only apply to spells, invocations, manuevers, and/or powers of levels one through three (though it applies to all other supernatural abilities). At level five, this ability applies to spells, invocations, manuevers and/or powers of levels four through six, and then applies to levels seven through nine once the Warden gains his ninth class level.

Additionally, the Lord-Warden eventually gains the ability to completely ignore certain supernatural effects. At level one, he ignores all spells, invocations, supernatural manuevers and/or powers of level one or two. At level five, this increases to include those of levels three and four, and at level six it increases to include those of levels five and six. The Lord-Warden is completely immune to those spells, invocations, supernatural manuevers and/or powers unless he chooses to be affected.


I mentioned this problem earlier... what does it mean when the Lord-Warden makes a Fort save against a spell that doesn't normally give him one? As written, you get to save... but it doesn't actually mean anything. Is damage halved? Does the spell just fizzle?

Otherwise, it seems fine enough. But if a level 20+ character is still worried about a level 1-3 spell... he's paranoid, but it's still quite flavorful.



Warden Sight (Su): Starting at second level, a Warden's sight sharpens and becomes infused with the power of stolen divinity and pure law; he is treated as though constantly under the effect of true seeing, with a few changes. The Warden percieves not only what is true, but also what deceptive magic wishes him to see, allowing him to react as though he has been fooled. Furthermore, the Lord-Warden can always tell if a being is disguised mundanely, even if they don't necessarily know who they actually are.

A Lord-Warden wishing to lock a being in his memory may make a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the being's hit dice + the being's charisma modifier) as a free action to do so. The Lord-Warden may have a total number of beings memorized at any given time equal to his intelligence modifier. Once the Lord-Warden has memorized a being, he will recognize that being upon sight, no matter what attempts the being makes to disguise itself (including, but not limited to, magic, divine intervention, surgery, sex changes, and being reincarnated). A Lord-Warden may "forget" a being as a free action, freeing up a use of this ability in the process.


This is pretty cool. Always handy. Hard to address power at these kinds of levels though.



Curse of Hounds (Su): A Lord-Warden of third level or higher can call upon the services of the Hollow Bastion's hounds; once per day, as a swift action, the Lord-Warden can call a pack of twelve chain-hounds into being. This pack acts as a single magical entity, chasing down a single being that the Warden can clearly imagine or name upon their summoning. These hounds chase that being down, tracking them as though they had the Track and Epic Track feats, the Scent special quality, and a Survival modifier of +65, using the fastest movement mode available to their summoner. Attempts to flee to other planes of existence won't avail the hounds' prey; they automatically move to whatever plane of existence their target is currently on. The Lord-Warden is always aware of the exact position of his hounds, and may freely percieve anything within a thirty-foot sphere of the pack.

Though the hounds are ethereal and cannot be damaged or otherwise harmed, it is possible to outrun them; evading the pack for a number of weeks equal to the Warden's character level causes the hounds to dissapate and renders their target immune to this ability for a year and a day. However, if the hounds catch up to their target, they attempt to grapple with them, using the Lord-Warden's grapple modifier to do so (the pack is treated as being the Lord-Warden's size); immunity to grappling (such as that granted by a freedom of movement spell) avails the hounds prey nothing. Failing their opposed grapple check against the hounds causes the unfortunate victim to be subject to a targeted greater dispel magic as cast by a sorcerer of the Lord-Warden's character level, as well as a dimensional anchor effect (no save).

Despite their ferocity, it should be noted that the Curse of Hounds is still a supernatural ability, and thus winks out within an antimagic field. However, unless their target is actually in such a field, they will simply detour around antimagic or wild magic obstacles, taking the shortest possible route.


Can the hounds be dispelled? If so, how hard would it be to do so? And like, demi-planes and stuff? It seems like the hounds would chase them there, but the lord-warden won't be able to get there, probably.



Ignore Wards (Ex): The Lord-Wardens recognize that they fight, oftentimes, at a distinct disadvantage; they battle foes with incredible protections, deific fortitude, powerful magics, and other methods of evading capture. To combat this, the Lord-Wardens have developed methods by which they may ignore the protections of their enemies. At third level, they ignore an amount of damage reduction equal to their character level plus their charisma modifier. At sixth level, they ignore any bonuses to armor class their targets recieve from spells, as well as any magical concealment less than total concealment and energy resistances granted by spells. At ninth level, they ignore deflection bonuses to armor class, and all energy resistances. Additionally, when attacking a being immune to a certain kind of damage (such as fire, or slashing), the Lord-Warden instead treats that being as taking 50% less damage, rounded up, rather than no damage at all.


That's a lot of DR to ignore, like, wow. That's any kind of DR, I imagine? At some point, though, this ability just becomes "I get to hit you. Always." Aside from like, abrupt jaunt shenanigans. This gets really powerful, though. I know its kind of supposed to be, but yikes. Like, people are going to have no defense against this guy, pretty much at all except... flying. Or something.



Solitary Confinement (Su): Perhaps the most feared of the Lord-Warden's powers, a Warden of fourth level or higher may cut off his victim from all attempts at help or aid. Once per day, as a swift action, the Lord-Warden lays his curse upon a sentient being, which is entitled to a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the Lord-Warden's character level + the Lord-Warden's charisma modifier) to evade it. Those who fail their saves are struck incapable of meaningful communication, unable to even write or mime their intent. Furthermore, their friends contrive to be absent from them, and any character they encounter and attempt to entreat for help instantly turns hostile to them, attacking them as viciously and lethally as possible. Solitary Confinement lasts a number of weeks equal to the Lord-Warden's character level, or until he chooses to revoke his curse as a free action, whatever comes first.

It should be noted that Solitary Confinement does not interfere with the casting of spells or other abilities that contain verbal components. However, it does interfere with spells or other abilities that require language in order to achieve their effects, as well as magical attempts to communicate; magic mouths sputter gibberish, illusions intended to communicate turn into horrific scenes of bloodshed and chaos, et cetera. Similarly, spells or other abilities whose power are entwined with the concept of language and communication, such as symbol or power word kill are rendered wholly useless, though all attempts to cast them do, of course, expend spell slots, ability uses per day, et cetera.

Lord-Wardens of the Silent Cage are immune to Solitary Confinement, and never have their attitudes towards a being changed because of it.


Why are symbols effected? Aren't they just... designs? This is pretty nuts, but it's their signature ability. One thing though: What's the range? Touch?



Oppressive Aura (Su): A Lord-Warden of fifth level or higher radiates an aura of hostility towards chaos and criminals; all beings hostile to the Lord-Warden receive a -4 sacred penalty to armor class and all rolls while within sixty feet of him. This penalty increases to -8 if said beings are nuetral on the law-chaos alignment axis, and -12 if said beings are chaotic.


Is this really necessary with the Ignore Wards stuff? We're going to run into d00ds with like, negative armor class eventually. Of course, any kind of 'holy crap powerful' reaction from me is probably mooted by the fact that you get this at level 26ish.



Lord-Warden's Stride (Ex): The Lord-Wardens are nothing if not a puissant organization, and the very fabric of reality recognizes and aids its guardians; Lord-Wardens of seventh level or higher are never subject to difficult or dangerous terrain, and never take environmental damage, such as that inflicted by the Elemental Plane of Fire. A Lord-Warden can even walk on surfaces that would not normally support his weight, such as water, acid, lava, or mud, without suffering penalties or taking damage. The Lord-Warden may, of course, choose to swim or utilize any other form of movement he wishes. Furthermore, the Lord-Warden enjoys the benefit of a constant Freedom of Movement spell (though it should be noted that, as an extraordinary ability, this benefit cannot be dispelled).


This is pretty cool. Gotta admit. Very flavorful, isn't ZOMG powerful but still handy for all the plane-hopping he'll do. Does the positive energy plane still over-heal a Warden, though? Hard to call that 'environmental harm' until it happens.


Incarcerate (Sp): A Lord-Warden of seventh level or higher may cast plane shift as a spell-like ability once per encounter as a swift action. They pay no material cost for this ability, but they may only transport themselves or the victim they touch to the prison cells of the Hollow Bastion, where the Keepers of the Cage then proceed to incarcerate the unfortunate scum.


I'll assume Keepers of the Cage are NPC Wardens? I'd like to see more on the Bastion, but that's not what this contest is about. Seems like another save-or-pretty much die power they get.


Warden's Decree (Su): A Lord-Warden of eighth level or higher may issue forth a decree to hinder his enemies and make them easier to bring to justice. Once every three days, as a standard action, the Lord-Warden loudly decrees that a specific being surrender or face the consequences. Unless the being immediately (upon its first available action) throws down any weapons in hand and earnestly surrenders, it must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Warden's character level + the Warden's charisma modifier) or gain twelve negative levels. Furthermore, its speed is reduced by half for all movement forms, and it suffers a -4 sacred penalty to armor class against the Warden's attacks. These penalties last a number of rounds equal to the Warden's class level, or until the being throws down its weapons and allows itself to be incarcerated within the Hollow Bastion, whatever comes first.


Holy bajeebus. Does the Will save eliminate all the harmful effects, or just the negative levels? Do the penalties last until the victim is IN the Hollow Bastion, or could the guy throw down and claim surrender but then explode? Are the negative levels negated by the usual Death Ward stuff? What's the range on this one again? If the person is deaf, or covers their ears, does this still work?


Defy Divinity (Ex): A Lord-Warden of tenth level or higher has access to the most potent protections of the Hollow Bastion, gaining the ability to defy divnity. The Lord-Warden ignores damage reduction and spell resistance of divine origin, and is always considered to be a deity of one divine rank above any and all divine beings present for the purposes of calculating initiative. Furthermore, the Lord-Warden is completely immune to any salient divine ability which does not allow a saving throw.

The Lord-Warden's protections extend even through time; a deity may not use their precognition to track the movements of a Lord-Warden of tenth level or higher, even if the Warden's actions directly relate to or affect their portfolios. Any attempts to travel back in time in order to murder the Warden before he has acquired this ability result in the deity (or other being) being transported to a random plane of existence and recieving 4d4 points of permanent wisdom drain as the threads of time snap and lash at their minds. This ability drain ignores any immunity the creature might otherwise have to ability drain, though it is, of course, useless against a being that does not have a wisdom score in the first place.

Lastly, a deity that would be immune to any of the Warden's abilities or their effects is instead entitled to a saving throw with a +6 sacred bonus. If the ability or effect in question does not have a saving throw, the deity in question may make a fortitude save (DC 10 + the Warden's character level + the Warden's charisma modifier) to negate the effects, and is still entitled to the bonus.


A good ability to combat the Illustrious One's WHOAMG capstone. It seems really powerful to come so suddenly, though. Like, any deity is suddenly in big trouble trying to interact with the Warden. It makes sense that say, demigods and lesser deities, maybe, but frelling Asmodeus or mighty Thor is suddenly repelled by this dude.

EDIT: Actually, this ability becomes problematic, especially with the whole time travel prevention thing. How does this determine intent when the deity time travels, exactly? If they go back in time to say, witness X event in person, does the time stuff lash out? If they happen to decide to off your Warden while they are in the past just because why not? Where does this power exactly come from, the Bastion?

Again, yeah, it's Epic. So blah @ too powerful accusations.

In the end, this is really hard to PEACH effectively being epic. Epic just gets so nuts so fast that this is really hard to gauge.

Vaynor
2010-03-13, 09:15 PM
Can anyone PEACH the disciple of the nine or the supplicant of the seven? I want to get them streamlined before Monday.

Golden-Esque
2010-03-14, 10:24 AM
With no more then a day to spare, I decided to make one last change to the Seropaenean Avenger after a little bit of playtesting.

Old: The Seropaenean Avenger cannot use another hallow for 5 rounds after previously using one (this cooldown is reduced to 4 rounds if the Avenger possesses the Rapid Recovery feat). After using a Hallow, it cannot be used for 5 rounds (this cooldown cannot be reduced via the Rapid Recovery feat).

New: Their is no longer a cooldown on using a Hallow when a previous one is used. Each Hallow is still exhausted for 5 rounds after using it, however, though this cooldown can now be reduced to 4 rounds via the Rapid Recovery feat.

Basically what I noticed in my play testing was that with a limit on how often an Avenger could use their Hallows, they almost never burned through all of their Hallow Charges in a day, especially when they started getting to 14 - 20. They'd get to use one, maybe two Hallows in an encounter, which wasn't the original intent. So yeah, this is a buff, but it's one that I felt was needed to keep the class feeling like a mockery of spellcasting. Thoughts or opinions?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-14, 10:30 AM
Guys, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to withdraw my entry. Today is the last day I have to work on it, and my father has decided that, since my sister and I are both home, he's going to take us out somewhere (which won't be enjoyable, what with recent issues). On top of a month filled with important IRL stuff that's taken my energy away from home-brew, I can't deliver a class worth anything, especially when my time is reduced to only about 2 hours today. I'd need a couple of days to get things ship-shape, and I just don't have them, nor would I feel right requesting them.

Gareth, I'm really sorry...life got in the way, and I can't force inspiration. I also may be absent from this contest for a month or two, until I get things under control again. Right now I'm having to make a bunch of difficult and important decisions in my life, and, sadly, that takes priority over this contest. When (and if) things clear up, I may have time again to devote to class design.

Distraught Djinn is distraught. :smallfrown:

boomwolf
2010-03-14, 10:47 AM
Lets see what we have...

Glimbur and Spate-ok
Lord_Gareth and Djinn_In_Tonic-not finished
DracoDei and Bhu-ok
Zom B and Zom B-illegal
Hyooz and Thrice Dead Cat-I fail to see conflict. enlighten me? (pun intended)
Golden-Esque and Golden-Esque-illigal
Vaynor and DaTedinator-ok.

So a total of 7 entries.
3 ok.
2 illegal.
1 unfinished.
1 i fail to see conflict.

Now Hyooz and Thrice Dead Cat might be my own incompetence to see conflict. but if there really is no conflict-it is also illegal.
only 3 or 4 contestants. not good.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-14, 10:49 AM
See my above post. I am really quite saddened by the circumstances. :smallfrown:

Now, about the other contestants -- Zom B and Golden-esque Pronoun are both in the clear: they posted a team-designed class in their partner's absence at the time. They're both trustworthy, and both stated so earlier in the contest.

boomwolf
2010-03-14, 10:52 AM
Wait....they HAVE a partner, but they posted it for him?

This changes the whole picture.
Maybe it will be a good contest after all.

(damn....should have faked having a panther.)

What? nonono. I said "Should have shaked the hand of my parent". yes. that's what I said.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-14, 10:54 AM
...actually, don't withdraw my entry JUST yet. It's possible that I might get something done during the 1.5 hour car trip that awaits me. Chances are slim, but present.

boomwolf
2010-03-14, 10:57 AM
Just noticed DracoDei is incomplete as well.

Dang.

Djinn-sorry to say, but I doubt you can fill 4 levels and full flavor in 90 minutes.
And at-will 9th level spells sounds a bit overpowering to me.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-14, 11:00 AM
Djinn-sorry to say, but I doubt you can fill 4 levels and full flavor in 90 minutes.

You'd like to think so. But now that you've said it? It's a challenge, my good sir.


And at-will 9th level spells sounds a bit overpowering to me.

Welcome to Epic, my friend. Welcome to Epic. By 29th level, at-will 9th level spells are the LEAST of your worries. But I'll consider it.

Hyooz
2010-03-14, 11:47 AM
As I've said before, the conflict between Dreamers and Wakers stems from ideological differences in how they interact with the Onyx Dream. Dreamers wander it freely and use it to channel mysteries and power themselves, while Wakers, at best, mimic its effects on the material plane, considering it a treasure trove of ancient knowledge that shouldn't be messed with so willy-nilly.

Golden-Esque
2010-03-14, 03:30 PM
Lets see what we have...

Glimbur and Spate-ok
Lord_Gareth and Djinn_In_Tonic-not finished
DracoDei and Bhu-ok
Zom B and Zom B-illegal
Hyooz and Thrice Dead Cat-I fail to see conflict. enlighten me? (pun intended)
Golden-Esque and Golden-Esque-illigal
Vaynor and DaTedinator-ok.

So a total of 7 entries.
3 ok.
2 illegal.
1 unfinished.
1 i fail to see conflict.

Now Hyooz and Thrice Dead Cat might be my own incompetence to see conflict. but if there really is no conflict-it is also illegal.
only 3 or 4 contestants. not good.

I posted them both, yes, but the Seropaenean Avenger was made by Xallace. I only posted it because he couldn't commit the time necessary to update it or make any fixes. I thought it would be better for me to post them both and be able to edit them at the community's suggestion then have great PEACHing go wasted.


Now, about the other contestants -- Zom B and Golden-esque are both in the clear: they posted a team-designed class in their partner's absence at the time. They're both trustworthy, and both stated so earlier in the contest.

YOU USED MY NAME!!!!

<3

boomwolf
2010-03-14, 04:21 PM
YOU USED MY NAME!!!!

<3

That's...highly disturbing fanboyish response.

CLEANSE! PURGE! KILL!




Djinn-even in epic I can see this quickly turning into a nutcase. infinite Shambler has it's uses, as dose Disjunction, Dominate Monster and lets not mention the brokenness of infinite Time Stop. you literally HAVE infinite time to do whatsoever you want. (including summoning a few bazillions of Shambling Mounds that will serve you for the next seven days.)

And that's only before leaving core, or looking at spell lists other then the wizard's

Golden-Esque
2010-03-14, 04:32 PM
That's...highly disturbing fanboyish response.

CLEANSE! PURGE! KILL!



Wait! Please! I can explain! He referred to me as "Xallace's partner" and "Pronoun" for the past few weeks! Please don't banish me to the Plane of Catgirls!!! T_T

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-14, 05:33 PM
Wait! Please! I can explain! He referred to me as "Xallace's partner" and "Pronoun" for the past few weeks! Please don't banish me to the Plane of Catgirls!!! T_T

Yeah. I fixed that little mistake of mine. :smalltongue:

And I think I might just be able to pull this off...stay tuned, folks. The Illustrious One might just receive an 11th hour complete overhaul...

DracoDei
2010-03-14, 06:28 PM
I believe the Anchored Guardian is now complete enough to no longer be disqualified.

Still planning to tweak the notes on the example regarding spell-list changes due to the PrC character, and fill in the red parts of the fluff in the main post, but the mechanics should be complete. PEACH desired, if anyone has the time.

JoshuaZ
2010-03-14, 06:37 PM
Still planning to tweak the example character, and fill in the red parts of the fluff, but the mechanics should be complete. PEACH desired, if anyone has the time.

So stacks for Animal Companion and full spellcasting? That seems pretty strong (they aren't getting improved Wildshaping but still...). And the necessary conditions to qualify for the class are not massive. Maybe lost a caster level at some point? 1 or 4 would seem like reasonable spots.

Edit: "Dictum except that on any creature banished by it the Deafness and Slow (if they occur at all)." Some words missing there. That section needs the wording tweeked a bit since it is currently hard to parse. There's also a slight issue here in that as the class is written someone could in fact get those abilities after ceasing to be neutral (or am I missing something here) since the class doesn't share the usual druid restriction.

DracoDei
2010-03-14, 10:20 PM
So stacks for Animal Companion and full spellcasting? That seems pretty strong (they aren't getting improved Wildshaping but still...). And the necessary conditions to qualify for the class are not massive. Maybe lost a caster level at some point? 1 or 4 would seem like reasonable spots.
Not 1... I was actually thinking of moving some more abilities down to first level to make up for losing Wild-Shape... Wild-Shape (with especially with Natural Spell) greatly increases a druid's combat abilities. I will probably wait and see what other people (especially Bhu) have to say.


Edit: "Dictum except that on any creature banished by it the Deafness and Slow (if they occur at all)." Some words missing there.
Good catch! The missing words are "are permanent"... but maybe the Slow shouldn't be... nah, probably less problematic than being permanently deaf and blind, as far as their ability to evade well enough to avoid getting killed by the residents of the plane.

That section needs the wording tweeked a bit since it is currently hard to parse.
Erf... anyone got any suggestions? I am drawing a blank on how to improve it...

There's also a slight issue here in that as the class is written someone could in fact get those abilities after ceasing to be neutral (or am I missing something here) since the class doesn't share the usual druid restriction.
If I am understanding my PrC rules right, then if you become non-neutral, you lose your casting abilities from the druid levels, and no longer qualify for the PrC, thus you lose all your prestige class abilities. Does anyone know if that is right? At the very least, you are losing 5 caster levels...
I guess it couldn't hurt to copy-paste in the appropriate paragraph from druid...

JoshuaZ
2010-03-14, 10:37 PM
Erf... anyone got any suggestions? I am drawing a blank on how to improve it...

How about the following:

Planar Arrest (Sp): At 14th level an anchored guardian gains two benefits:
FIRSTLY, he adds one or more spells to his divine casting spell list(s) as a 9th level spell. Which spell depends on the druid's alignment, but all but the true neutral one have some modifications in common and others that vary between them (but are thematically similar). In addition the spells added carry extra effects as described below. Planar Arrest (Sp): At 14th level an anchored guardian gains two benefits:

and then continue from there.



If I am understanding my PrC rules right, then if you become non-neutral, you lose your casting abilities from the druid levels, and no longer qualify for the PrC, thus you lose all your prestige class abilities. Does anyone know if that is right? At the very least, you are losing 5 caster levels...
I guess it couldn't hurt to copy-paste in the appropriate paragraph from druid...

There's some disagreement about whether you do in fact lose everything. Complete Warrior implies you do, but some PrCs have abilities that actually cause you to gain a type which can't qualify for the PrC. So probably just making it explicit if that's how you want for it to work for this PrC is probably best.

DracoDei
2010-03-14, 10:48 PM
How about the following:

Planar Arrest (Sp): At 14th level an anchored guardian gains two benefits:
FIRSTLY, he adds one or more spells to his divine casting spell list(s) as a 9th level spell. Which spell depends on the druid's alignment, but all but the true neutral one have some modifications in common and others that vary between them (but are thematically similar). In addition the spells added carry extra effects as described below.

and then continue from there.
Copy-pasted... thank you very much...
EDIT: Although the phrase "in addition" is technically incorrect... hmmm...
EDIT^2: Ok, think I have it sorted out now... if I didn't re-confuse it in my quest for accuracy... also, since the spells in question are 7th level in their original forms, they are only 8th in their new forms.



There's some disagreement about whether you do in fact lose everything. Complete Warrior implies you do, but some PrCs have abilities that actually cause you to gain a type which can't qualify for the PrC. So probably just making it explicit if that's how you want for it to work for this PrC is probably best.
Will do then... Done...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-14, 11:26 PM
Thank god...I'm going to get this finished.

That said, this is a 1-day all-but-complete rebuild of the whole class...can I get some last-minute PEACHing?

DragoonWraith
2010-03-14, 11:51 PM
Oh damn. I just realized that midnight of March 15 is now, not tomorrow night. Damn, damn, damn. Finally had a good idea, too, but it's half done and I've given KaganMonk no time to respond. Might've had something tomorrow night, if he happened to have a lot of free time. Ahh, well.

Kallisti
2010-03-14, 11:57 PM
I'm not going to have my entry finished in time; life got in the way and my partner and I were out of contact for a while, so I don't have any idea how close to finished he is.

It's a shame, since I kind of liked what little I did have, but meh. I can always just post it as regular homebrew.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-15, 12:16 AM
Yeah, that's what I'll do.

Man, this partner stuff is hard! I'm not good at organizing...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-15, 12:19 AM
Oh damn. I just realized that midnight of March 15 is now, not tomorrow night. Damn, damn, damn. Finally had a good idea, too, but it's half done and I've given KaganMonk no time to respond. Might've had something tomorrow night, if he happened to have a lot of free time. Ahh, well.

Nope! The new day begins at 12:01am, according to all reliable sources I can find.

We have until tonight, at midnight (i.e. Monday night).

Vaynor
2010-03-15, 12:22 AM
Nope! The new day begins at 12:01am, according to all reliable sources I can find.

We have until tonight, at midnight (i.e. Monday night).

Well, technically it would be the smallest increment of measurable time after midnight has passed.

But yeah, as far as I can tell, you guys have Monday.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-15, 12:58 AM
Class finished! Only fluff to come!

Can anyone spare a quick overview?

DracoDei
2010-03-15, 02:59 AM
Gut reaction after reading a bit... with the exception of the special requirement, none of the pre-requisites point towards high enough Epic to justify this in my mind... of course, I just now played my first session of Epic, and am playing an intentionally underpowered ranger... (RP reasons and I like a bit of a challenge despite the fact that the GM seems to be taking it easy on up... we haven't even had to cast True Resurrection yet on our journey from 1st to 21st... in fact, only two PC deaths the whole time...)

Class features: You have a typo "Lord Warden".

Karmic Backlash: Lets you clone single-target buffs onto yourself by casting them on your leader/idol/team-mate. While not necessary a problem, your fluff doesn't recognize this, so I thought I should mention it.

Boon of Earth: Are they immortal enough to move, or do they freeze in place for a round?

Salience: Should this make disguise impossible? Probably not, but it COULD fit the fluff...


Universum Ex Machina: Why the 1 week thing? Does a lowly Protection From Evil effect counter this? I guess since you never said it was [mind effecting] it doesn't, which is about right...

Too tired to read more just at the moment... head hurts... might do more later.

boomwolf
2010-03-15, 03:49 AM
I announce myself winner of this competition as for without my tease djinn would not have finished his work.

HOLY CRAP!
this thing is more powerful then pretty much anything I have even encountered. I fail to see a reason why anyone would NOT take this class.

Question to be asked-why immune to acid, electricity and cold, but only resistance 11 to fire?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-15, 08:18 AM
Question to be asked-why immune to acid, electricity and cold, but only resistance 11 to fire?

Deity rules, as per the Deities and Demigods handbook and the Hypertext SRD. :smalleek:

ErrantX
2010-03-15, 08:21 AM
Down to the home stretch folks, midnight tonight the contest closes and you'll see the voting thread tomorrow!

-X

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-15, 08:39 AM
Gut reaction after reading a bit... with the exception of the special requirement, none of the pre-requisites point towards high enough Epic to justify this in my mind... of course, I just now played my first session of Epic, and am playing an intentionally underpowered ranger... (RP reasons and I like a bit of a challenge despite the fact that the GM seems to be taking it easy on up... we haven't even had to cast True Resurrection yet on our journey from 1st to 21st... in fact, only two PC deaths the whole time...)

Good point. This came out being a little stronger than initially expected, so I'm going to bump the entry up to...let's say...40th level.


Class features: You have a typo "Lord Warden".

Oops. :smallredface:


Karmic Backlash: Lets you clone single-target buffs onto yourself by casting them on your leader/idol/team-mate. While not necessary a problem, your fluff doesn't recognize this, so I thought I should mention it.

Intended, and I'll write that it.


Boon of Earth: Are they immortal enough to move, or do they freeze in place for a round?

They can move...there is nothing that says they wouldn't be able to, but I'll include that as well.


Salience: Should this make disguise impossible? Probably not, but it COULD fit the fluff...

It probably should. :smallbiggrin:


Universum Ex Machina: Why the 1 week thing? Does a lowly Protection From Evil effect counter this? I guess since you never said it was [mind effecting] it doesn't, which is about right...

1 week? Because it's a mirror of the Lord Warden's 1 week ability, and because you're just that good. And it's not mind effecting for a reason...notice that NONE of the Illustrious Ones abilities are. That sort of thing is just to common at high levels.

DracoDei
2010-03-15, 08:49 AM
Fixed a typo in the neutral-good section of "Planar Arrest", and (at Bhu's confirmation... I think he confirmed... he was a bit garbled) removed caster progression at level 4.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-15, 08:51 AM
I announce myself winner of this competition as for without my tease djinn would not have finished his work.

You might still win. I suspect the high Epic requirements of Gareth and my work may turn people off of it. Still, we figured we'd go against what seemed to be the forgone conclusion that we'd win, and try something fairly unprecedented to "level the field" (although I say this in a tongue-in-cheek manner, as you guys are all excellent, and we didn't pull any punches in our work) a little bit.

You knows? It might turn out to have been a poor choice. :smallbiggrin:

boomwolf
2010-03-15, 09:15 AM
You might still win.

If I manage to win without even participating then I am TRULY epic. :P