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Barbarian MD
2010-02-15, 06:23 PM
So, I'd like to increase my collection of 3.5 source books. Being the law-abiding citizen that I am, however, I will avoid Rapidshare to do it.

My question is: what is the best online source for the out-of-print stuff. All I've found thus far are used books on Ebay and Half, which cost $30-40. Is anybody out there that sells .pdf files legitimately?

My follow-up question is this: when would sourcebooks become public domain?It takes something like 50-100 years, doesn't it? Does WotC have any intention of releasing old versions to the public domain earlier than that?

denthor
2010-02-15, 06:26 PM
So, I'd like to increase my collection of 3.5 source books. Being the law-abiding citizen that I am, however, I will avoid Rapidshare to do it.

My question is: what is the best online source for the out-of-print stuff. All I've found thus far are used books on Ebay and Half, which cost $30-40. Is anybody out there that sells .pdf files legitimately?

My follow-up question is this: when would sourcebooks become public domain?It takes something like 50-100 years, doesn't it? Does WotC have any intention of releasing old versions to the public domain earlier than that?


The game shop near me uses second hand bookstores for such a purpose and resales them.

Another option is go to the local game shop and they may have second hand books they bought at a con for resale.

JonestheSpy
2010-02-15, 06:53 PM
Good used bookstaores also often have a gem or two tucked away in their Games section.

My favorite local gamestore, on the other hand, stopped selling used games altogether awhile back, as people were coming in to cherry-pick their collection and resell the stuff on ebay, leaving them with mostly unsellable crap.

Aharon
2010-02-15, 07:31 PM
It will not be public domain for quite some time legally:

Wikipedia on Public Domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain#Since_1978)

I doubt they will release it before they must, seeing how it directly competes with their current product.

Thurbane
2010-02-15, 08:29 PM
I am very luck that when 3.5 was being phased out, a couple of my FLGS had 3.5 books cheap, so I have nearly all of the non-campaign specific books (and a few of the campaign specific ones, too). One thing I didn't stock up on was extra core books, especially PHBs and DMGs.

My jaw hit the ground when I recently tried to get some 3.5 PHBs and DMGs at Amazon and Ebay. The prices are just unbelievable! Not to mention that a bunch of international stockists refuse to ship to Australia. I understand the concept of supply and demand, but some online sellers are really gouging people with their prices... :smallannoyed:

...I keep a contant vigil at local game and book stores, but no luck as of yet.

Egiam
2010-02-15, 08:39 PM
I tend to find pretty good deals on Amazon...

Thurbane
2010-02-15, 08:41 PM
My question is: what is the best online source for the out-of-print stuff. All I've found thus far are used books on Ebay and Half, which cost $30-40. Is anybody out there that sells .pdf files legitimately?
In answer to that question, no, unfortunately.

WotC pulled the licensing rights to all legit sellers of their 3.5 material in electronic format. In fact, they pulled the rights to sell ANY pre 4E material, including 2E and 1E.

They also revoked licensing rights to all 3rd party licensed products, such as Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, Dragonlance material and Ravenloft material.

Additionally, they worded their OGL for 4E material so that a 3rd party publisher cannot simultaneously publish OGL content for 3.X and 4E.

Obviously, they want as little competetion to their 4E product as possible. It's a sound business decision, if not entirely fan friendly.

Touchy
2010-02-15, 08:58 PM
In answer to that question, no, unfortunately.

WotC pulled the licensing rights to all legit sellers of their 3.5 material in electronic format. In fact, they pulled the rights to sell ANY pre 4E material, including 2E and 1E.

They also revoked licensing rights to all 3rd party licensed products, such as Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, Dragonlance material and Ravenloft material.

Additionally, they worded their OGL for 4E material so that a 3rd party publisher cannot simultaneously publish OGL content for 3.X and 4E.

Obviously, they want as little competetion to their 4E product as possible. It's a sound business decision, if not entirely fan friendly.

Doesn't that make all previous editions abandon-ware in a sense?

Thurbane
2010-02-15, 09:00 PM
Doesn't that make all previous editions abandon-ware in a sense?
I'm not too sure of the legal ins-and-outs of it, but I would guess that the WotC legal team would have that particular avenue fairly well sewn up. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though...

JoshuaZ
2010-02-15, 09:04 PM
Doesn't that make all previous editions abandon-ware in a sense?

Philosophically, potentially if that term is a term you find meaningful. Note that that term is generally used only for software. Also note that the law does not recognize the concept and many people who use that term would only use it to refer to much older material where the probability of rerelease by the copyright owners is much smaller than in this case.

TheLogman
2010-02-15, 09:09 PM
I got my copy of DMG II from a library book sale for a dollar.

Totally worth it.

I'd recommend checking anywhere you think you can get used books or gaming materials cheap, but as for online sources, I don't believe there is a free legal source or even a cheap legal source online ever since WoTC decided to stop selling PDF's.

Touchy
2010-02-15, 09:10 PM
Philosophically, potentially if that term is a term you find meaningful. Note that that term is generally used only for software. Also note that the law does not recognize the concept and many people who use that term would only use it to refer to much older material where the probability of rerelease by the copyright owners is much smaller than in this case.

I understand it's a software term, however I see it is similar case, and in this case, I have 99%(You can never be truly positive) certainty that this will never be re-released(Unless WotC hopes to recycle the editions when they are sure no one would notice).

JoshuaZ
2010-02-15, 09:14 PM
I understand it's a software term, however I see it is similar case, and in this case, I have 99%(You can never be truly positive) certainty that this will never be re-released(Unless WotC hopes to recycle the editions when they are sure no one would notice).

99% is an interesting claim. However, the term abandonware is frequently used to refer to cases with much higher standards than that, such as when the original company has gone out of business and never transferred the copyright to anyone. There is some amount of money that WOTC would sell you a legitimate copy of a 3.5 book (it might be millions of dollars but it exists). That can be distinguished from the case where it isn't at all clear whom should be getting paid.

sombrastewart
2010-02-15, 09:16 PM
I should've picked up the copy of Complete Divine at the local Half Price Bookstore when I had the chance. It's not exactly easy to find around here for some reason...

Touchy
2010-02-15, 09:18 PM
99% is an interesting claim. However, the term abandonware is frequently used to refer to cases with much higher standards than that, such as when the original company has gone out of business and never transferred the copyright to anyone.

Good point, I completely forgot about that fact. Still, I doubt WotC still cares for their old copy-rights.

Just to let you know, I'm not suggesting pirating it, I've toyed with the idea but pirating always leaves this bad feeling if I try, I usually bail out after that.

raitalin
2010-02-15, 09:24 PM
Abandonware isn't a legal term, it just mean that no one is likely to come to the defense of the copyright of the product, generally because the company either went out of business and the current owner of the rights is unknown or has advanced so far from the product that it sees no reason to defend something so outdated. Also, products with distinctive characters that could be reused are unlikely to be undefended.

3.5 doesn't fit any of these criteria. Honestly don't know why they don't offer 1e and 2e as .pdfs, though.

Also, I'm one of those people that cherry-picks book stores and resells. Protip: pick up Stormwrack and Complete Divine whenever you see them.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-15, 09:25 PM
I doubt WotC still cares for their old copy-rights.
You're crazy if you think there is any sound business that "doesn't care" about any copyright. That simply doesn't exist. Copyrights are money, and are to be used to make money. Even if they were to make things Public Domain, it would be a PR stunt, not just "we no longer care".

Thurbane
2010-02-16, 09:40 PM
Agreed. For WotC, any 3.5 material sold (or given away) is a loss to 4E revenue, and 4E is the "brand" they are trying to grow.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised they haven't served a "cease and decist" on the various 3.5 SRD websites, although I guess their ability to do that depends on the exact wording of the OGL, which I haven't really studied.

I would also recommend that people grab as much of the downloadable 3.X content on the WotC website as possible, as I forsee a day when they gradually remove it from their servers. I download copies of the webpages to my HDD for this eventuality.

This also may be of interest: A Guide to Free D&D (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0)

Susano-wo
2010-02-16, 10:07 PM
Yeah, WotC definitely cares if you get their products illegally. My recollection is that pirated releases of books before they even hit the stores is what prompted the banning of PDFs (Which is pretty stupid, since it means that I errr unscrupulous people are just going to download, when they were planning on shelling out the dollars for some PDF's of older works such as 1E and 2E. And would be willing to purchase PDF's and print them of the 3.5 stuff they don't have. Ah well.), and they, as noted, shifted wording with the 4e OGL to prevent people from supporting their bastard child if they wanted on board the 4E train.

So though they aren't looking to publish their 3.5 stuff (any time before 4E is done or they aren't worried about 3.5 sales hurting their 4e sales), I am certain they do care that people get them illegally, and would stop them if they could do it/devote the resources to it

And the prices on Amazon and Ebay are disgusting. Those people should be shot! ><

rockdeworld
2010-02-16, 10:13 PM
Printed versions of the DMG and PHB are worth a lot when the D20SRD exists? :smallconfused:

DementedFellow
2010-02-16, 10:14 PM
Printed versions of the DMG and PHB are worth a lot when the D20SRD exists? :smallconfused:

YES.

There is something satisfying about looking up the stuff in a book.

Any WotC books available for the Kindle?

Toliudar
2010-02-16, 10:33 PM
Also, there are selected data that are included in the core books that are not included in OGL, and consequently are not on the SRD sites. The experience tables, WBL tables, and selected iconic monsters (beholders and mind flayers, for instance) are only available from the books.

Barbarian MD
2010-02-16, 10:49 PM
So... Are they going to allow a 4E SRD?

Touchy
2010-02-16, 10:59 PM
So... Are they going to allow a 4E SRD?

The 4e SRD was designed so you would not be able to play for free.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-02-16, 11:49 PM
Agreed. For WotC, any 3.5 material sold (or given away) is a loss to 4E revenue, and 4E is the "brand" they are trying to grow.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised they haven't served a "cease and decist" on the various 3.5 SRD websites, although I guess their ability to do that depends on the exact wording of the OGL, which I haven't really studied.

I would also recommend that people grab as much of the downloadable 3.X content on the WotC website as possible, as I forsee a day when they gradually remove it from their servers. I download copies of the webpages to my HDD for this eventuality.

This also may be of interest: A Guide to Free D&D (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0)

They can't. The OGL was a great decision from a public relations standpoint, but a terrible one from a business. As a Law Student, the 4e SRD is a much nicer piece of work.

And 4e SRD exists, but it is only for developers.

---

As far as going Public Domain, the answer is never. Everytime the time limit becomes relevant, Congress expands it. OD&D will never slip into the Public Domain, let alone 3.5.

Second of all, WoTC will sue your ass if you are found to be violating their IP. Just because they aren't using 2e anymore doesn't mean they want anyone else to.

Thurbane
2010-02-17, 12:10 AM
OD&D will never slip into the Public Domain, let alone 3.5.
OSRIC comes pretty close to this...

http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/a1.html

Realms of Chaos
2010-02-17, 12:50 AM
Never is a pretty long time. It sounds as though you just need to wait until 70 years after all authors are dead before it becomes public domain whether the corporation likes it or not.
When I'm 99 or so, I'll be playing 1st edition free of charge... if anybody remembers it. :smalltongue:

The Tygre
2010-02-17, 01:27 AM
Huh... So this is what it feels like to be moderately wealthy. I gotta' say... I kind of like it. :smallbiggrin:

faceroll
2010-02-17, 02:32 AM
I got some faerun & eberron stuff on amazon.com for under 10 bucks a book, including ECS, PGtF, and champs of ruin/valor (like 2 bucks +4 dollars for shipping).

Aharon
2010-02-17, 05:53 AM
By the way, 2e fluff products are freely available at the wizards homepage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads). Some crunch, too.

Susano-wo
2010-02-17, 04:27 PM
They can't. The OGL was a great decision from a public relations standpoint, but a terrible one from a business. As a Law Student, the 4e SRD is a much nicer piece of work.

And 4e SRD exists, but it is only for developers.



HOw was is bad for their business? Seems like it opened more publishers to produce products for their games, which generally means more people buying at least their core books, if not the "Splat" books. And as far as people playing for free....Google. "Dnd 3.5 torrents". Need I say more? ;>.>

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-02-18, 12:51 AM
In fact, they pulled the rights to sell ANY pre 4E material, including 2E and 1E.

They also revoked licensing rights to all 3rd party licensed products, such as Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, Dragonlance material and Ravenloft material.

Additionally, they worded their OGL for 4E material so that a 3rd party publisher cannot simultaneously publish OGL content for 3.X and 4E.Wow

That's a GIANT SH*T on their fanbase.


Just because they aren't using 2e anymore doesn't mean they want anyone else to.Copyright isn't just a tool for good :sabine:


Agreed. For WotC, any 3.5 material sold (or given away) is a loss to 4E revenueSimply not true.

I (and many others) have not, nor will ever play 4e much less buy the books! They couldn't GIVE ME the books. I simply wouldn't take them; possessions are a burden.

So if I have a $100 gift certificate to spend on either 4e books or 3.5 books the choice is obvious. However if the gift certificate for 4e books that I can't resell, I'll give it away or if I can't do that I'll just rip it up.

WotC does NOT lose money on 'competing' products when the buyer does not view them as 'competing'. The company cannot know and therefore might be doing immoral things to intervene in all but the clearest cases of infringement.

potatocubed
2010-02-18, 02:32 AM
Additionally, they worded their OGL for 4E material so that a 3rd party publisher cannot simultaneously publish OGL content for 3.X and 4E.

Not entirely true: the GSL (4e equivalent to the OGL, sort of) is set up so that an individual product line cannot be compatible with both it and the OGL. A company can still have two separate product lines using the two different systems.

Of course, most haven't bothered and have just stuck with 3.x/Pathfinder.

Thurbane
2010-02-18, 02:59 AM
Wow

That's a GIANT SH*T on their fanbase.
FWIW, I agree 100%. There are (at least) two ways to run a business for profit -

1.) Treat your consumer base with a little respect, and not as dupes to be fleeced whenever possible

2.) Run your business for maximum short term gain, without caring for or cultivating a loyal fanbase

...I leave it up to the individual to determine where they believe WotC lies on this axis.

Simply not true.
True or not, from what I've read (developer interviews, press releases etc.) this is how the decision makers over at WotC see things.

Not entirely true: the GSL (4e equivalent to the OGL, sort of) is set up so that an individual product line cannot be compatible with both it and the OGL. A company can still have two separate product lines using the two different systems.

Of course, most haven't bothered and have just stuck with 3.x/Pathfinder.
Indeed. It's still a jerk move as far as I'm concerned, especially when coupled with the other factors I mentioned. There is little doubt in my mind that the movers and shakers at WotC/Hasbro wish that pre-4E D&D would just up and vanish overnight, so that 4E was the only version of D&D being played by anyone. During the transition to 4E, they certainly did everything in their (legal) power to facilitate this.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-18, 09:07 AM
I would agree that 4e and 3.5e are not interchangable goods. Some may value the two systems equally, but a great many do not. I, personally, would rather buy third party 3.x books than Wotc 4e. If wotc was still printing 3.5, I would still be buying them. Instead, Ive been buying a collection of the 3.5 material out there and starting in on pathfinder.

I can see that 3.5 would, if still available, not get the publicity and shelf space of 4e, but continuing to print runs for special order sales/sell pdfs would only net them additional income.

And stopping pdf sales to prevent piracy is an utter failure. Any book you could possibly want to pirate is already out there...this just prevents the people who WOULD rather buy than pirate from doing so.

Optimystik
2010-02-18, 09:23 AM
I (and many others) have not, nor will ever play 4e much less buy the books! They couldn't GIVE ME the books. I simply wouldn't take them; possessions are a burden.

So if I have a $100 gift certificate to spend on either 4e books or 3.5 books the choice is obvious. However if the gift certificate for 4e books that I can't resell, I'll give it away or if I can't do that I'll just rip it up.

WotC does NOT lose money on 'competing' products when the buyer does not view them as 'competing'. The company cannot know and therefore might be doing immoral things to intervene in all but the clearest cases of infringement.

The problem is that you are just one buyer - I, for one, would happily play both 3.5e and 4e.

With play-by-post gaining in popularity, it's possible to belong to more than one gaming group - so they can indeed cannibalize their brand if they're not careful.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-18, 09:35 AM
The problem is that you are just one buyer - I, for one, would happily play both 3.5e and 4e.

With play-by-post gaining in popularity, it's possible to belong to more than one gaming group - so they can indeed cannibalize their brand if they're not careful.

But...if they sold both, would you buy less books? Probably not. You might split your purchases between editions..or you might buy more books to cover both, if money is available, but an increase in choices doesn't actually reduce your desire for new books in general.

Optimystik
2010-02-18, 11:00 AM
But...if they sold both, would you buy less books? Probably not. You might split your purchases between editions..or you might buy more books to cover both, if money is available, but an increase in choices doesn't actually reduce your desire for new books in general.

Desire is one thing... Demand is another.

Demand is defined as "the quantity of goods/services one is both willing and able to purchase." Because my income and time are scarce, I do have to make that choice. Given enough time I can acquire all the books from both editions, but until then my acquisition of one will necessarily reduce my capacity to acquire the other.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-18, 11:13 AM
Desire is one thing... Demand is another.

Demand is defined as "the quantity of goods/services one is both willing and able to purchase." Because my income and time are scarce, I do have to make that choice. Given enough time I can acquire all the books from both editions, but until then my acquisition of one will necessarily reduce my capacity to acquire the other.

This is only true for those with income less than that required to purchase a complete set of one edition AND who like both editions equally.

Lets look at our various cases:

1. Not enough money to buy both, strongly prefers 3.x. Buys more if both are sold.

2. Not enough money to buy both, no strong preference. Buys the same in total either way. May be happier due to increased selection.

3. Not enough money to buy both, strongly prefers 4. Buys same either way.

4. Enough money to buy both, strongly prefers 3.x. Buys more if both are sold.

5. Enough money to buy both, no strong preference. Buys more if both are sold.

6. Enough money to buy both, strongly prefers 4. Probably just buys 4th, but may sample 3 at some point. Same, possibly more.


Note that NONE of those cases results in less purchasing from WOTC if 3 continues being printed.

As for demand being finite due to reading time...hah. I have books I've never cracked the cover on, waiting till I get around to reading them, yet it doesn't stop me from buying something I happen to see that looks particularily interesting.

potatocubed
2010-02-18, 11:21 AM
And stopping pdf sales to prevent piracy is an utter failure. Any book you could possibly want to pirate is already out there...this just prevents the people who WOULD rather buy than pirate from doing so.

Just a note on this: if you hop on over to BitTorrent and snag yourself some of the early 4th edition pdfs (as I did while I was waiting for my physical books to show up), what you'll notice is that they're not 'pirated pdfs'. They've still got printers' marks on them, and I think the PHB still had pdf comments in little yellow sticky tabs. The obvious conclusion is that the supply of 4e pdfs was coming from inside Wizards, not from copied downloaded pdfs.

Ceasing to sell pdfs - especially older edition pdfs - was... I don't even know.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-18, 11:25 AM
Just a note on this: if you hop on over to BitTorrent and snag yourself some of the early 4th edition pdfs (as I did while I was waiting for my physical books to show up), what you'll notice is that they're not 'pirated pdfs'. They've still got printers' marks on them, and I think the PHB still had pdf comments in little yellow sticky tabs. The obvious conclusion is that the supply of 4e pdfs was coming from inside Wizards, not from copied downloaded pdfs.

Ceasing to sell pdfs - especially older edition pdfs - was... I don't even know.

Well, yeah. Piracy can happen in all sorts of ways other than by simply copying pdfs. Pdfs that can be watermarked so you know who leaked them, no less.

Plus, there is a substantial amount of people that just torrent copies(as you an I have done) of books they actually own. It's not piracy, but it tends to be counted as if it were, since it's not immediately obvious that I actually do own a giant stack of books if you're just counting torrent downloads.

Optimystik
2010-02-18, 11:30 AM
Note that NONE of those cases results in less purchasing from WOTC if 3 continues being printed.

You're making a critical assumption here - that WotC is the only source of 3.x material if I want to buy it.

That just isn't the case - most 3.x product is available secondhand now. No matter how much of secondhand product gets sold, WotC doesn't see a penny from the sales.

It's also typically cheaper than buying it direct from WotC, or a licensed dealer thereof.


As for demand being finite due to reading time...hah. I have books I've never cracked the cover on, waiting till I get around to reading them, yet it doesn't stop me from buying something I happen to see that looks particularily interesting.

Not reading time, purchasing time.

Over a long enough timeline, I can save enough disposable income to buy every book, video game, or other form of entertainment I could want, because my income is perpetual. Thus, the only way to limit my income is to limit my time to earn it.

Emmerask
2010-02-18, 12:02 PM
And stopping pdf sales to prevent piracy is an utter failure. Any book you could possibly want to pirate is already out there...this just prevents the people who WOULD rather buy than pirate from doing so.

Absolutely true, and additionally downloading is not illegal in a lot of countries only uploading is. So you are willing to give wotc money but they just donīt want to have it and you are not even liable to prosecution if you get it another way (in some countries) well the choice is obvious :smallwink:

True there are other sources ebay for example but they are way way overpriced ( 108,87 $ for a PH for example...) in most cases and to get the exact book you want from second hand sales is not that likely and very time consuming.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-18, 12:08 PM
You're making a critical assumption here - that WotC is the only source of 3.x material if I want to buy it.

That just isn't the case - most 3.x product is available secondhand now. No matter how much of secondhand product gets sold, WotC doesn't see a penny from the sales.

It's also typically cheaper than buying it direct from WotC, or a licensed dealer thereof.

This is true, but for WOTC, they probably don't view you buying secondhand or third party material as much of a win for them.

As for price, that's debatable, many books are already routinely selling for higher than retail price...and due to availability, many people would normally buy retail even if secondhand is available....seriously, secondhand is always around to some degree.


Not reading time, purchasing time.

Over a long enough timeline, I can save enough disposable income to buy every book, video game, or other form of entertainment I could want, because my income is perpetual. Thus, the only way to limit my income is to limit my time to earn it.

Ah. This varies immensely, though. Im a software engineer, and several of the people I play with are too. Any of us could buy every roleplaying book WOTC sells on a whim. Age is probably a major factor here, and I'd wager that while the younger crowd tends to have limited income, D&D is being played across a rather wide age spread at the moment.

Barbarian MD
2010-02-18, 12:40 PM
WHOA NOW

I think we need to steer this conversation AWAY from pirated .pdfs.

My question was: where can I legitimately PURCHASE pdf files, or barring that, hard copy books that aren't obscenely priced.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-18, 12:47 PM
WHOA NOW

I think we need to steer this conversation AWAY from pirated .pdfs.

My question was: where can I legitimately PURCHASE pdf files, or barring that, hard copy books that aren't obscenely priced.

We're not talking about pirating pdfs...we're talking about legitimately getting pdfs. Piracy laws vary from country to country, and there are a wide number of circumstances in which downloading is not pirating.

For example, legitimate pdf buyers may be able to resell them, just as book buyers do. Depends on country, but Id suggest looking up "right of first sale" in your country to see if it applies.

Barbarian MD
2010-02-18, 01:01 PM
Ah, sorry. I see that now. You're talking about downloading copies of books that you own.

I didn't want the thread to get closed and leapt without fully looking.

Curmudgeon
2010-02-18, 01:53 PM
Has anyone found a place where people can buy/sell legally obtained PDF books? I think eBay disallows listing such items, but there ought to be other venues. WotC sold a lot of books in PDF format.

Ormagoden
2010-02-18, 02:51 PM
Scour ebay
Using smaller search terms will give you wider results.
Sometimes people miss-categorize items (like DnD books) and you can get them on the cheap.
Sometimes people dump their entire collections keep an eye out.

Scour amazon
I have gotten a large number of 3.5 books from amazon for 10 dollars or less. (one as low as 1.97$)

Your best weapon is diligence and persistence! Check those sites every day. You'll score eventually. Don't be afraid to create an ID and email a seller either. If you have a question about the condition of a book they'll usually send photos or describe any imperfections for you.


Also Drivethrurpg.com (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/) has some 3rd party books. Buyer beware not everything is awesome.

Emmerask
2010-02-18, 04:45 PM
We're not talking about pirating pdfs...we're talking about legitimately getting pdfs. Piracy laws vary from country to country, and there are a wide number of circumstances in which downloading is not pirating.

For example, legitimate pdf buyers may be able to resell them, just as book buyers do. Depends on country, but Id suggest looking up "right of first sale" in your country to see if it applies.

Sadly reselling digital copies (of books, games etc) is illegal in more and more countries I would be very careful with this :smallannoyed:

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-02-18, 07:44 PM
True or not, from what I've read (developer interviews, press releases etc.) this is how the decision makers over at WotC see things.Just felt like giving a lovely existential that completely defeats the greedy/libertarian/lawful POV about how useful and always good copyright enforcement is. :smallmad:


The problem is that you are just one [potential] buyerVery true, you win. I'll point out that this fact is used to justify digital piracy :smallwink: