[3.5] Sandstorm Eagle Claws.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I found this nice weapons on sandstorm, they don't seem anything out of the ordinary but they are exotic weapons, so my question is:
Would it be too unbalanced to make them martial weapons?
i
They do 1d6 damage with a threat range of 18-20 X2 and light.

[Boci]

A shortsword with an improved crit range. They are superior to an existing option that is not underpowered so you will need to add a penalty, maybe -1 to AC when you attack with them, since the only way to strike properly with the short blades envolves slightly over reaching?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Is there any precedent over martial weapons imposing penalties? though that is not a bad option at all.

[Boci]

Is there any precedent over martial weapons imposing penalties? though that is not a bad option at all.

Not that I know of, but they need something to make sure shortswords remain a valid option.

[Raiki]

There definitely is. Although I don't remember the name of it, a barbarian in a party I played in had a hammer so big that it gave him a -2 to AC just to swing it.

~R~

[chormin]

So its a rapier in a different type that [presumably] counts as a light weapon for all purposes not just weapon finesse.

I dont see much issue with making this a martial weapon, but Im not as good at balancing or optimizing as some others here.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Recheked the book and it actually also does slashing AND piercing damage, so presumably it also helps getting past certain DR...

[FishAreWet]

Have you considered turning it into a Shortsword mechanically but keeping it as the same weapon?

Having two weapon types means the penalty has to be much worse.

[Boci]

Have you considered turning it into a Shortsword mechanically but keeping it as the same weapon.

Or kukris if its the 18-20 threat range he's after.

[Dusk Eclipse]

@fisharewet: not really, although I see what you are saying, I think I'll probably be better spending the feat, it is not a heavy optimization game so I a feat is not that important.

Actually I am going for a kukri more or less, this are for a small character so a pair of small eagle claws are the same as a pair of kukris. XD

[Boci]

Actually I am going for a kukri more or less, this are for a small character so a pair of small eagle claws are the same as a pair of kukris. XD

Its up to you really. Do you want to spend a feat for and extra 0.5 of damage per attack and the ability to change the damage type to piercing?

[Sinfire Titan]

Its up to you really. Do you want to spend a feat for and extra 0.5 of damage per attack and the ability to change the damage type to piercing?

It deals both at the same time, like a morning star

[Zaq]

The only really interesting part of Eagle Claws is the feat Eagle's Fury, which is basically Rapid Shot/Flurry for Eagle's Claws. Of course, then you're spending two feats on it (unless you're an Asherati, in which case you're spending the feat you would have gotten for being a human) and you're not really getting anything better than TWF, but hey. Of course, technically it does stack with TWF, and I think you can throw them and get Rapid Shot, which means that you can burn way too many feats and take ridiculously huge penalties in order to have a good old-fashioned flurry of misses, but it's at least cool-looking and cinematic.

EDIT: If it isn't clear, I'm suggesting you take TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot, applying them all at once to get an extra three attacks in a thrown-weapon routine. Of course, this costs a disgusting five feats (EWP:Eagle's Claw, Quick Draw, TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot) and you're eating a -6 to hit, which makes this completely impractical, but at least, as I said, it's a cool mental image, even if it could never work.

[Boci]

The only really interesting part of Eagle Claws is the feat Eagle's Fury, which is basically Rapid Shot/Flurry for Eagle's Claws. Of course, then you're spending two feats on it (unless you're an Asherati, in which case you're spending the feat you would have gotten for being a human) and you're not really getting anything better than TWF, but hey. Of course, technically it does stack with TWF, and I think you can throw them and get Rapid Shot, which means that you can burn way too many feats and take ridiculously huge penalties in order to have a good old-fashioned flurry of misses, but it's at least cool-looking and cinematic.

Genius. Now all we we need is an ability to make them count as monk's special weapons.

[RagnaroksChosen]

The only really interesting part of Eagle Claws is the feat Eagle's Fury, which is basically Rapid Shot/Flurry for Eagle's Claws. Of course, then you're spending two feats on it (unless you're an Asherati, in which case you're spending the feat you would have gotten for being a human) and you're not really getting anything better than TWF, but hey. Of course, technically it does stack with TWF, and I think you can throw them and get Rapid Shot, which means that you can burn way too many feats and take ridiculously huge penalties in order to have a good old-fashioned flurry of misses, but it's at least cool-looking and cinematic.

EDIT: If it isn't clear, I'm suggesting you take TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot, applying them all at once to get an extra three attacks in a thrown-weapon routine. Of course, this costs a disgusting five feats (EWP:Eagle's Claw, Quick Draw, TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot) and you're eating a -6 to hit, which makes this completely impractical, but at least, as I said, it's a cool mental image, even if it could never work.

isn't there a feat that lets you make another attack with a slashing weapon?? i think from phb2 or complete warrior...

could be fun two weapon fighting eagles furry, that slashing feat..
exotic weapon master for flurry... ya you get the picture...

[Boci]

isn't there a feat that lets you make another attack with a slashing weapon?? i think from phb2 or complete warrior...

could be fun two weapon fighting eagles furry, that slashing feat..
exotic weapon master for flurry... ya you get the picture...

Eagle's fury.
TWF.
Slashing furry from PHII.
Snap kick.
Exotic weapon master's flurry.

-10 to hit so far.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The only really interesting part of Eagle Claws is the feat Eagle's Fury, which is basically Rapid Shot/Flurry for Eagle's Claws. Of course, then you're spending two feats on it (unless you're an Asherati, in which case you're spending the feat you would have gotten for being a human) and you're not really getting anything better than TWF, but hey. Of course, technically it does stack with TWF, and I think you can throw them and get Rapid Shot, which means that you can burn way too many feats and take ridiculously huge penalties in order to have a good old-fashioned flurry of misses, but it's at least cool-looking and cinematic.

EDIT: If it isn't clear, I'm suggesting you take TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot, applying them all at once to get an extra three attacks in a thrown-weapon routine. Of course, this costs a disgusting five feats (EWP:Eagle's Claw, Quick Draw, TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot) and you're eating a -6 to hit, which makes this completely impractical, but at least, as I said, it's a cool mental image, even if it could never work.

Well I was gonna use this on a swift hunter build so I get two-weapon fighting down, and I need to check the Eagle's fury feat. Off to sandstorm!!!

[Keld Denar]

EWM Flurry only works with double weapons or chain weapons. Eagle Claw isn't either.

Unless you use some Aptitude Shananananananananananananananigans, but if you do that, there's other things you can do better.

[sofawall]

EWM Flurry only works with double weapons or chain weapons. Eagle Claw isn't either.

Unless you use some Aptitude Shananananananananananananananigans, but if you do that, there's other things you can do better.

An alarming amount of people seem to think Aptitude does things it does not do.

[Keld Denar]

Which is why I refer to it as shanananananananananananananananananigans...

[Boci]

An alarming amount of people seem to think Aptitude does things it does not do.

It does do them though. It clearly was not intended to, (or if it did it should be a +4 ability) but that doesn't change the fact that it does.

[Darrin]

Genius. Now all we we need is an ability to make them count as monk's special weapons.

Unorthodox Flurry from Dragon Compendium.

And the really cool part is Unorthodox Flurry provides proficiency, so you can skip EWP. Whoops. Nothing to see here...


It does do them though. It clearly was not intended to, (or if it did it should be a +4 ability) but that doesn't change the fact that it does.

Aptitude weapon only works with feats. Exotic Weapon Master's Flurry is a class ability, so Aptitude can't help you there.

[Sophismata]

And the really cool part is Unorthodox Flurry provides proficiency, so you can skip EWP.

Nope, you still need EWP. It only grants proficiency so long as the chosen weapon isn't exotic.

[Person_Man]

The only really interesting part of Eagle Claws is the feat Eagle's Fury, which is basically Rapid Shot/Flurry for Eagle's Claws. Of course, then you're spending two feats on it (unless you're an Asherati, in which case you're spending the feat you would have gotten for being a human) and you're not really getting anything better than TWF, but hey. Of course, technically it does stack with TWF, and I think you can throw them and get Rapid Shot, which means that you can burn way too many feats and take ridiculously huge penalties in order to have a good old-fashioned flurry of misses, but it's at least cool-looking and cinematic.

EDIT: If it isn't clear, I'm suggesting you take TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot, applying them all at once to get an extra three attacks in a thrown-weapon routine. Of course, this costs a disgusting five feats (EWP:Eagle's Claw, Quick Draw, TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Rapid Shot) and you're eating a -6 to hit, which makes this completely impractical, but at least, as I said, it's a cool mental image, even if it could never work.

Master of Masks 1 provides EWP for everything. Alternatively, the Skillful Weapon enhancement (Comp Arcane) provides proficiency with a weapon and 3/4 BAB. There's also the Master's Touch spell. Or anything that provides a +4 To-Hit, which is essentially the same thing.

Kimono of Storing: Essentially two Gloves of Storing (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Glove_of_Storing). So you could draw or store 2 weapons as a free action. Combine with Glove of Taarnahm, which give any weapon you hold Throwing and Returning, and you can make up to 4 thrown attacks per round without Quickdraw. Not enough if you're doing this with 8+ attacks at high levels, but useful if you're just trying to pull this off at mid-low levels.

Disciple of the Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060106a&page=2) provides (and stacks with) Flurry of Blows, and every time you ROLL to attack, your enemy must Save vs. Fear. The down side is that creatures who pass a Save vs this effect are immune for 24 hours. But for enemies with poor Will Saves, this should debuff them pretty heavily and compensate for the penalty to-hit that comes from all the Flurry garbage.

But in general, I'd say that Eagle Claws are a waste of time.

[Ormagoden]

Eagle's fury.
TWF.
Slashing furry from PHII.
Snap kick.
Exotic weapon master's flurry.

-10 to hit so far.

That poor furry!

[RagnaroksChosen]

I do have to agree with person man they are kinda a waste of time...
Just like scorpion claws from Secrets of Xendrix.

they have a cool two wepaon rend feat but other wise they are usless..

However with 2 +1 keen aptitude eagles claws

taking
lighting maces,
scorpian claw rend.
eagles fury
twf
and slashing fury
you could get quiet a few attacks.

[Person_Man]

I do have to agree with person man they are kinda a waste of time...
Just like scorpion claws from Secrets of Xendrix.

they have a cool two wepaon rend feat but other wise they are usless..

However with 2 +1 keen aptitude eagles claws

taking
lighting maces,
scorpian claw rend.
eagles fury
twf
and slashing fury
you could get quiet a few attacks.

That's true. But instead of taking Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (light mace), Lightning Reflexes, Eagles Fury, Weapon Focus (any slashing), Weapon Specialization (any slashing), Melee Weapon Master (Slashing), and Slashing Flurry (note that most of these are pre-reqs for Lightning Maces or Slashing Flurry), you could spend those 10 (!) feats elsewhere and probably get a much better outcome.

[Akal Saris]

But think of all the math you could do with those feats!

[Cieyrin]

That's true. But instead of taking Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (light mace), Lightning Reflexes, Eagles Fury, Weapon Focus (any slashing), Weapon Specialization (any slashing), Melee Weapon Master (Slashing), and Slashing Flurry (note that most of these are pre-reqs for Lightning Maces or Slashing Flurry), you could spend those 10 (!) feats elsewhere and probably get a much better outcome.

I think you meant Lightning Maces, not Lightning Reflexes. That +2 on Ref ain't gonna make you any more uber.:smalltongue: