[3.5] Binders in Eberron

[DragoonWraith]

Does anyone know if WotC ever wrote up fluff for how Binders are viewed in Eberron? I'm working on an Artificer/Binder PrC, and I really have no idea how Eberron is supposed to view Binders. I can make it up easily enough if there is no canon on it, but if there is it seems to me that I should try to work with it.

So, does anyone know if WotC ever did something like this? Tome of Magic frustratingly has adaptations for Truenaming in Eberron (and Forgotten Realms), but not for Binding or Shadowcasting...

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

It was never brought up. If you had to ask me, I'd say that many of the Vestiges would need to be refluffed or completely remade (definitely the former). Binders would probably be considered dangerous at best, considering how many extra-planar entities want a piece of Eberron, and the most common binds would most likely be demons from the Dragon below. I'd try to cultivate a theme of binding aspects of the World Dragons, the bound demons, the spirits of the Giants and Coutls, and maybe, maybe entities from Dal Quor and maybe even Xoriat. An elf binder might also have connections to the elven ancestral spirits and the Undying Court.

Expect to be prejudiced against and maybe even hunted down, depending on where the campaign goes. You're dealing with dangerous things.

[DragoonWraith]

That strikes me as somewhat surprising, given Eberron's generally morally gray attitude (and acceptance thereof). *shrug*

As for refluffing the Vestiges, I think CockroachTeaParty did an excellent job (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131821), personally. But he didn't go into Binding itself.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

That strikes me as somewhat surprising, given Eberron's generally morally gray attitude (and acceptance thereof). *shrug*

As for refluffing the Vestiges, I think CockroachTeaParty did an excellent job (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131821), personally. But he didn't go into Binding itself.

You have a good point about the morally gray attitude. Still...given how much Eberron has been F-ed over by various extraplanar entities...I don't know. I'd suspect some suspicion from at least organizations like the Church of the Silver Flame and some of the more conservative organizations.

[JoshuaZ]

If that's the fluff being used, then Djinn's response makes a lot of sense. Look at how many of these are directly tied into really bad or dangerous stuff. Otiax is potentially the worst example.

Hmm, there are a few that didn't get refluffed in that list. Not sure completely how to approach them. Maybe Tenebrous is an aspect of the Shadow? That would explain the Tenebrous Apostate class. Not sure what to do with the others.

[DragoonWraith]

I dunno, I would not say most. A few, perhaps, but most are pretty trivial and several are quite good. Most stayed pretty much the same.

I agree that the Church of the Silver Flame wouldn't like it. They don't like a lot of things, so that doesn't concern me overly. I'm primarily interested in the reaction of the Great Houses.

[JoshuaZ]

I agree that the Church of the Silver Flame wouldn't like it. They don't like a lot of things, so that doesn't concern me overly. I'm primarily interested in the reaction of the Great Houses.

Do they ever dislike anything if it isn't somehow a threat to them? This isn't wrecking with dragonmarks. The abilities don't threaten their monopolies. They'd probably just see it as another magic source.

[Gralamin]

I know of one attempt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131821) to rewrite the vestiges to work in Eberron.

However, I take a different approach:

Binders and Religion
The Sovereign Host and the Silver flame distrust Binders - and with good reasons. Many binders act in heretical ways and become consumed by inner demons. However, no attempt at exorcism has ever worked on Binders, making demonic possession an unlikely story.

Vestiges and the Planes
Binders claim they are binding "Vestiges" beings from outside reality, but in truth this is just their own delusions. They are actually a conduit in which a Quori can enter the world, albeit in a limited form, by attaching itself to the "Dream" that Binders make pacts with. Thus a bad pact is actually a Quori exerting control, while a good pact is the Binder having avoided the Quori's attention. Kalashtar and some Psionics have proven successful in "stopping" a bad sign, but not always, so it seems this isn't the only explanation.

However, these "dreams" had to originate somewhere, especially since multiple beings can call upon these dreams. Each vestige was once a person, a hero, a villain, or anything of the sort, who ultimately ended up on Xoriat. There they were driven insane from the horrors beyond reality, with their last remaining figments being their dreams which still reach Dal Quor. This desperate hold to what approaches reality being too powerful for the Quori to dispel, they monitor them instead, and it is through this dream conduit that all pacts are made.

[DragoonWraith]

Do they ever dislike anything if it isn't somehow a threat to them? This isn't wrecking with dragonmarks. The abilities don't threaten their monopolies. They'd probably just see it as another magic source.
That's what I thought and exactly what I was hoping to hear.


I know of one attempt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131821) to rewrite the vestiges to work in Eberron.
Yup, I saw that, and like it.


However, I take a different approach:

Binders and Religion
The Sovereign Host and the Silver flame distrust Binders - and with good reasons. Many binders act in heretical ways and become consumed by inner demons. However, no attempt at exorcism has ever worked on Binders, making demonic possession an unlikely story.

Vestiges and the Planes
Binders claim they are binding "Vestiges" beings from outside reality, but in truth this is just their own delusions. They are actually a conduit in which a Quori can enter the world, albeit in a limited form, by attaching itself to the "Dream" that Binders make pacts with. Thus a bad pact is actually a Quori exerting control, while a good pact is the Binder having avoided the Quori's attention. Kalashtar and some Psionics have proven successful in "stopping" a bad sign, but not always, so it seems this isn't the only explanation.

However, these "dreams" had to originate somewhere, especially since multiple beings can call upon these dreams. Each vestige was once a person, a hero, a villain, or anything of the sort, who ultimately ended up on Xoriat. There they were driven insane from the horrors beyond reality, with their last remaining figments being their dreams which still reach Dal Quor. This desperate hold to what approaches reality being too powerful for the Quori to dispel, they monitor them instead, and it is through this dream conduit that all pacts are made.
Ehhh.... yeah, I'm not really a fan of this. It's a very interesting and creative take on things, but I like Vestiges as Vestiges, not Quori.

[Gralamin]

Ehhh.... yeah, I'm not really a fan of this. It's a very interesting and creative take on things, but I like Vestiges as Vestiges, not Quori.

Different stuff for Different folks. I like the Quori, and I like Xoriat, and I saw a lot of similarities between them and the Vestiges, and so I integrated them together. It fit in surprisingly easily.

[DragoonWraith]

Oh, I do agree, it works rather nicely. Just, yeah, not to my taste. Thanks though!

[CockroachTeaParty]

Hark! What's this? People noticed that thread? O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

I'd echo most of what's been said here so far. Organizations such as the Church of the Silver Flame would despise Binders, and even the kalashtar (especially Atavists, I'd imagine), even though it's not necessarily quori-based magic.

I picture most Binders practicing their arts in the seedier areas of the world; Droaam, Q'Barra, the Lhazaar Principalities, the Demon Wastes, the Shadow Marches, and Xen'Drik to name but a few. Of the five nations, Breland would probably be the most accepting (due to apathy).

You know what would be awesome? Friggin' Progenitor Dragon vestiges! DUUDE! Binding Eberron, Khyber, or Siberys would be totally sweet! Anybody up for some homebrew?

[Nate the Snake]

So, does anyone know if WotC ever did something like this?

Well, there's this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) article, but it's for Forgotten Realms. It might help, but CockroachTeaParty's thread probably does it better.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by CockroachTeaParty himself. :smallbiggrin:

[CockroachTeaParty]

More thoughts:

I'd imagine the Lord of Blades probably has a handful of warforged binders hanging out with him in the Mournland. Considering nobody's even sure if warforged have souls, the existence of vestiges, so outside what is considered normal, probably draws much curiosity from many a 'forged. Perhaps the Lord of Blades is trying to infuse the Godforged with a vestige's power to give it 'life.' Who knows?

[d13]

You know what would be awesome? Friggin' Progenitor Dragon vestiges! DUUDE! Binding Eberron, Khyber, or Siberys would be totally sweet! Anybody up for some homebrew?

I want some of this, and I want it right now.

:smalltongue:

[sonofzeal]

Epic level Vistages ftw?

[Salt_Crow]

There's an Eberron binder NPC in one of the Eberron Expedition (or whatever it was called) articles. He's a professor in one of the universities who practices the art of binding quite openly (and the supposed-author is quite surprised by that).

I do not remember the NPC actually being statted out, but it was worth knowing that they do exist and that it is rare for one to practice the art in public.

[Optimystik]

@OP - Remember the cardinal rule: if it is in D&D, it has a place in Eberron. Period.


Epic level Vistages ftw?

Most, if not all of them, were epic in life. Acererak, Karsus, Zceryll...

Hell, Savnok and Tenebrous weren't just epic, they were deities. And Focalor was an exarch, etc.

[hamishspence]

The early free online 3.5 Dragon Magazine has vestiges designed to be bound only by epic level characters- I think that was what he was getting at.

[Optimystik]

The early free online 3.5 Dragon Magazine has vestiges designed to be bound only by epic level characters- I think that was what he was getting at.

Nice. Did they take that down?

Is this article (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20080407a) what you meant, or are there more out there?

Any word on Epic Truenaming? (sigh....)

[DragoonWraith]

Any word on Epic Truenaming? (sigh....)
Using an Utterance on an Epic character has a Truenaming DC No.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

You know what would be awesome? Friggin' Progenitor Dragon vestiges! DUUDE! Binding Eberron, Khyber, or Siberys would be totally sweet! Anybody up for some homebrew?

Considering I myself raised this exact thought earlier, and now find someone in agreement? HELL YES.


Bind Eberron, "The Dragon Within" [Epic Vestige]
The living aspect of Eberron itself, the Dragon Within grants a oneness with the planet and the ability to strike down those who would impose their will upon it.
Prerequisite: Ability to bind 8th level Vestiges, Knowledge (the planes) 25 ranks.
Benefit: You can bind Eberron, "The Dragon Within"

Special Requirement: You must summon Eberron outdoors. She does not answer your call if you cannot see the sky.

Manifestation: When Eberron manifests, her seal, an empty circle, twists into a complex Dragonmark that seems to combine all of the existing marks into a single cohesive whole. The ground within the seal begins to rise, forming a draconic head of earth and stone, and the eyes open, revealing pools of calming emerald light within which float gleaming shapes that, upon closer inspection, perfectly mirror the continents of Eberron. When Eberron speaks, her voice is deep and resonant, reverberating across the landscape in thunderous cascades heard only by the Binder himself.

Sign: Your eyes turn into emerald spheres that carry gleaming traces of the continents upon Eberron.

Influence: When under Eberron's influence, you must defend the natural world to the best of your abilities. You may not attack living creatures unless your own life is clearly in danger.

Granted Abilities

Awaken the Earth Dragon: Once every 5 rounds, as a swift action, you may use the spell Earthquake as a spell-like ability. The save DC is 10 + 1/2 your effective Binder level + your Charisma modifier.

Earth's Fury: Your attacks and powers are more potent against aberrations, constructs, outsiders, and undead. All spells, powers, and abilities you possess have a +4 bonus to their DCs when used against creatures of these types. You can freely use sneak attacks, critical hits, and precision damage against creatures of these types and automatically confirm critical threats against them. Finally, you receive a +4 bonus to your AC and saving throws against attacks made by creatures of these types.

Eberron's Herald: You may use the spell Summon Nature's Ally IX at will as a spell-like ability. You may only summon an Elder Earth elemental or an Elder Air elemental. Any creature summoned in this manner gains the Half-Dragon template (of the type your choice, chosen at the time of summoning from the list of chromatic and metallic dragons). You may only have 1 summoned elemental at a time through the use of this ability.

One with the Earth: So long as you remain in contact with the ground, you gain Fast Healing 5 + 1/4 your Binder level (rounded down). Additionally, so long as you remain in contact with the earth, you gain a Divine bonus to saving throws equal to 1/4 your Binder level (rounded down).

Strength of the Plane: You gain a +8 Divine bonus to Strength and Constitution.

[Starbuck_II]

Using an Utterance on an Epic character has a Truenaming DC No.

What? That makes less sense since the more well known you the easier it should be. Now the DC is affected by power level, but with enough mitigation (Item Familar) you can reach the sky.
Go beyond the impossible, kick reason to the curb, and make an utterance that will pierce the very heavens!

Advice for any Truenamer: "Listen up Truenamer and don't forget: Believe in you, not in the me who believes in you; not in the you that believes in me. You should believe... believe in yourself!"

[hamishspence]

Nice. Did they take that down?
Is this article (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20080407a) what you meant, or are there more out there?

Thats the one.

[Optimystik]

Influence: When under Eberron's influence, you must defend the natural world to the best of your abilities. You may not attack living creatures unless your own life is clearly in danger.

I would change that to "natural living creatures" since Aberrations and Outsiders are alive.

[CockroachTeaParty]

This should probably start migrating to the Homebrew Forum if this keeps up for much longer... but here's my shot at Khyber...


Khyber, "The Dragon Beneath" [Epic Vestige]
Khyber's malevolent will still makes its presence known in the world as a dark vestige. Khyber bestows the dark blessings of his aberrant creations, and allows those who bind him to control elemental spirits, as well as entomb their foes deep within the earth.
Prerequisite: Ability to bind 8th level Vestiges, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 25 ranks.
Benefit: You can bind Khyber, "The Dragon Beneath"

Special Requirement: You cannot summon Khyber in an area of bright illumination, and he flat-out refuses any call made on the soil of the continent of Argonnessen.

Manifestation: When Khyber manifests, his seal (an opaque circle within a larger circle) turns into a bubbling pool of hot lava. The lava cools, and hardens into a highly reflective disc of obsidian. The binder then feels a powerful presence deep within their chest, that seems to push against their ribcage in a bid for freedom. If the binder looks at their reflection in the obsidian disc, they see that Khyber speaks through their own mouth, in a deep voice that sounds like an echo from deep within a cave or well.

Sign: A hideous, red-and-black tattoo covers your entire body, as if you had an enormous aberrant dragonmark.

Influence: When under Khyber's influence, you despise dragons and anyone with a dragonmark. Khyber forces you to refuse any services or aid from such individuals, and prevents you from dealing nonlethal damage to them in combat.

Granted Abilities

Entombment Eternal: Once every 5 rounds, as a standard action, you may cast an Imprisonment spell on a single target within 60 feet. The save DC is 10 + 1/2 your effective Binder level + your Charisma modifier.

Symbiotic Mastery: While bound to Khyber, you are never at risk of suffering a personality conflict with any attached symbiotes, nor do you suffer any damage, ability damage, or other negative effects for attaching or removing them.

Aberrant Resilience: You take on traits of Khyber's dark, twisted children. While bound to Khyber, you gain DR 15/epic and byeshk. You also gain a +6 enhancement bonus to your natural armor. You also gain immunity to polymorph effects and mind-affecting effects.

Elemental Fury: You may cast an Elemental Swarm spell at-will as a spell-like ability, although you may not have more than one swarm active at any given time.

Lord of the Deep: You gain unlimited-range darkvision, out to the limit of your natural eyesight, as well as a burrow speed equal to your land speed, and tremorsense out to 60 ft.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

This should probably start migrating to the Homebrew Forum if this keeps up for much longer... but here's my shot at Khyber...

We only have one more though...may as well put it here.


Siberys, "The Dragon Above" [Epic Vestige]
Siberys bestows the knowledge of the Draconic prophecy, the power to traverse heavens, and the mighty strength of the ancient dragons.
Prerequisite: Ability to bind 8th level Vestiges, Knowledge (arcana) 25 ranks.
Benefit: You can bind Siberys, "The Dragon Above"

Special Requirement: You can only summon Siberys at night or before dawn, and he must be summoned beneath an open sky. Siberys hates Khyber, and will not answer your summons if you are currently bound to Khyber, or have been bound to Khyber within the past week.

Manifestation: When Siberys manifests, his seal (three concentric circles) turns black and starry like a reflection of the night sky, the three circles turning into rings of phantom dragonshard fragments. A pair of bright stars manifest in the center of the innermost circle, and Siberys stares out from within them, an invisible and potent presence. He does not speak, but the Binder feels his intent as it was the only thing in the universe that the senses could perceive.

Sign: A faint ring of phantom dragonshards encircles your head, rotating around your brow like some strange, unearthly crown.

Influence: When under Siberys' influence, you become distant and removed from reality, caring little for mortal concerns. You must not intervene in any mortal conflict not directed towards you, unless the Draconic Prophecy would be threatened by such inaction. Additionally, you may never deal lethal damage to a dragon.

Granted Abilities

Call to Siberys: As a full-round action, you may summon a single Mature Adult Silver Dragon to aid you in combat. The dragon remains at your side for 1 hour per effective Binder level, or until slain. If slain, you may not summon another dragon for 24 hours. You may only have one summoned dragon at a time. For every 6 ranks in Knowledge (arcana) you have beyond the 25 required for this feat, the dragon gains an additional age category.

Draconic Form: At will, you may take the form of any True dragon whose total hit dice are equal to or lower than your own. You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities and qualities of the dragon whose form you choose, but you do not gain any spell-like abilities. Transforming in this manner is a full-round action.

Endless Sight: As a full-round action, you may make a Search or Spot check that covers a 2-mile radius centered on your location. You may only find things exposed to the open air in the fashion.

Prophetic Sights: You are permanently under the effects of the foresight spell.

Walk the Skies: Once every 5 rounds, you may use the spell Teleport without Error to travel anywhere within Eberron, provided your destination is under an open sky. You do not need to be familiar with your location to do so.

[DragoonWraith]

Awesome work guys! I have little/no familiarity with Epic rules, but those are really cool.


What? That makes less sense since the more well known you the easier it should be.
Right. Truenaming doesn't make sense.

(below)

According to Secrets of Sarlona, the kalashtar have a number of binders. Their monasteries in Adar preserve any magical knowledge which the Inspired try to stamp out. So they also have shadowcasters and incarnum classes.
Interesting. The only thing I've actually read in Secrets of Sarlona is the Exotic Weapons section...

[Prime32]

According to Secrets of Sarlona, the kalashtar have a number of binders. Their monasteries in Adar preserve any magical knowledge which the Inspired try to stamp out. So they also have shadowcasters and incarnum classes.

[CockroachTeaParty]

You know, that makes a certain amount of sense, now that I think about it. In many ways, the kalashtar are not unlike humans permanently bound to a 'vestige,' in this case the diluted essence of rebel quori.

So I guess it would be pretty reasonable for kalashtar to be pretty accepting of binders...