Level 50 Gestalt Build

[Lysander]

I've always wanted to play an epic level gestalt game but haven't had a chance yet. What do you think is a good build for a level 50 gestalt character? I assume the build would start off focusing on getting to level 9 arcane and divine spells, then take numerous dips and prestige classes to cherry pick choice abilities.

[Sir_Elderberry]

I've seen these threads before. This is going to be truly ridiculous, and will probably involve 9th level arcane, divine, manifesting, and maneuver.

[Mystic Muse]

Probably lots of metamagic as well.

[puppyavenger]

and epic casting and manifesting

[Boci]

Siade one: Wizard 20 / Incantrix 10 / IotSV 7 / Master specialist 10 / Archamge 3
Side two: Factotum 20 / Chameloen 10 / Warblade 20

[jokey665]

Siade one: Wizard 20 / Incantrix 10 / IotSV 7 / Master specialist 10 / Archamge 3
Side two: Factotum 20 / Chameloen 10 / Warblade 20

Don't forget to take Font of Inspiration 17 times (18 if human) for an additional 153 (171) inspiration points, or an extra 51 (57) standard actions per encounter.

Shouldn't be too hard to get a +17/+18 int mod so you can take it that many times.

[Lycanthromancer]

Siade one: Wizard 20 / Incantrix 10 / IotSV 7 / Master specialist 10 / Archamge 3
Side two: Factotum 20 / Chameloen 10 / Warblade 20Why take more than 3-5 levels of wizard, when the vast majority of PrCs don't lose any spellcasting? Load up on the PrC special abilities.

[Boci]

Why take more than 3-5 levels of wizard, when the vast majority of PrCs don't lose any spellcasting? Load up on the PrC special abilities.

4 bonus metamagic feats and simplicity.

[Eurus]

The problem is that 50th level gestalt is enough to do everything, because a 50th level wizard really isn't that much better of a wizard than a 21st level wizard, except in the amount of metamagic he has access to. There's not much of an incentive to not branch out, once you've got 9th level spells and a full base attack bonus. So a party of 50th level gestalt characters would have an extremely difficult time not trampling all over each others' toes.

[Glimbur]

I'd see if I could get all good saves and full BAB every level for 20 levels. You have 30 levels to repair the damage, but +40 to all saves is... significant.

Probably still less powerful than just maximizing casting though.

[Mastikator]

One level in 100 classes. :smallyuk:

[Sir_Elderberry]

One level in 100 classes. :smallyuk:
"You have no idea how many bonus feats this fighter has."

[drengnikrafe]

Whatever you do, just make sure you go first. I'm pretty sure epic level involves a principle not dissimilar from an old fashion gunfight. Quickdraw wins.

[Blaine.Bush]

One level in 100 classes. :smallyuk:

Seconded.

No, really.

[JoshuaZ]

Whatever you do, just make sure you go first. I'm pretty sure epic level involves a principle not dissimilar from an old fashion gunfight. Quickdraw wins.

Actually, in an old fashioned gun fight, you're better off drawing second. See here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/feb/03/good-guys-draw-faster-gunfights). Note also that this isn't strictly true for epic either. What often matters is who has the most ridiculous immunities and who finds a gap in the other's defenses first. "Hmm, acid? nope. Try. sonic. nope. Oh, lightning hurts you a bit. Ok. Take a maximimized, empowered heightened, fell drain lightning bolt."

[Lycanthromancer]

This is the time to get some really powerful race. Beholder mage, illithid savant, black ethergaunt, greater doppelganger, perhaps a uber-templated dragon with gestalt LA/levels.

[Lysander]

The problem is that 50th level gestalt is enough to do everything, because a 50th level wizard really isn't that much better of a wizard than a 21st level wizard, except in the amount of metamagic he has access to. There's not much of an incentive to not branch out, once you've got 9th level spells and a full base attack bonus. So a party of 50th level gestalt characters would have an extremely difficult time not trampling all over each others' toes.

Presumably at that point they're too busy battling deities and holding off the armies of the abyss to care if they share a few abilties.

I guess what you really want to do is continue boosting spellcraft so you can cast epic spells with less difficulty, while picking up all kinds of random neat abilities.

[drengnikrafe]

Actually, in an old fashioned gun fight, you're better off drawing second. See here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/feb/03/good-guys-draw-faster-gunfights). Note also that this isn't strictly true for epic either. What often matters is who has the most ridiculous immunities and who finds a gap in the other's defenses first. "Hmm, acid? nope. Try. sonic. nope. Oh, lightning hurts you a bit. Ok. Take a maximimized, empowered heightened, fell drain lightning bolt."

Thank you for linking to that. That was actually a really good use of my time.

In any case, wouldn't you, then, want to take those weird +0 SL metamagics? The type that turn your (element) spell into (element + other element) spell. Born of 3 Thunders, or whatever else.
Or memorize the ELH's monsters, and the weaknesses they have.

[Boci]

In any case, wouldn't you, then, want to take those weird +0 SL metamagics? The type that turn your (element) spell into (element + other element) spell. Born of 3 Thunders, or whatever else.
Or memorize the ELH's monsters, and the weaknesses they have.

Hence the level of the archmage for free choice between five elements. Twinned energy admixture orb will allow you to launch 2 orbs, each dealing 2 different types of energy damage as a standard action (9th level spell). Then use quickened sonic orb and you have all five elements covered as a standard and swift action, so burn inspiration for extra standard actions.

[Eurus]

Or you just end up shooting Searing Spell'd orbs of fire that deal five figures of damage. >_>

[Lycanthromancer]

Or you just end up shooting Searing Spell'd orbs of fire that deal five figures of damage. >_>Just use explosive runes with the factotum's ability to ignore SR (which is good for high-SR critters anyway) and dispel a book full for huge damage (3600d6 force damage? yes plz!).

[SurlySeraph]

Black Ethergaunt Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil/ Incantatrix// Druid/Planar Shepherd, maybe. Throw in 8 or more levels of Factotum and lots of Font of Inspiration in there, as mentioned.

[Lycanthromancer]

Black Ethergaunt Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil/ Incantatrix// Druid/Planar Shepherd, maybe. Throw in 8 11 or more levels of Factotum and lots of Font of Inspiration in there, as mentioned.Fixed. You don't ever want to deal with SR in epic, even with a jacked-all-the-way-up caster level.

Easier not to deal with it at all.

[Wings of Peace]

Your Shopping List Should Include:

Beguiler (Int casting is good)

Rainbow Servant 10 (More Spells, More choices, More maiming.)

Prestige Paladin (For Paladin of the Arcane Order)

Paladin of the Arcane Order (**** you Mystic Theurge)

Spelldancer (Persist Everything Easily.)

Sanctified One of Kord 1 (If it can die from damage you can now kill it.)

Tainted Sorcerer 1 (Some people will say no to this one. I say alignment for Prestige Paladin quits mattering after you get Paladin of the Arcane Order but some will tell you qualifying for a feat is a class feature. Can't say I agree but that's what they will tell you.)

Ardent 1 (For Subverted Psion)

Subverted Psion 1 (You may now max out your taint)

After these all that matters is your metamagic. Personally I think you shouldn't need a million actions to kill someone in epic but if you do take some Factotum on your otherside.

[Soranar]

Strangely enough, once you reach epic levels, bards become insanely strong.

Their abilities affect creatures immune to mind-affecting spell (mind blank or items will not save you).

Take 1 level of sublime chord to be a full spellcaster. You might want a level of Battledancer to get your CHA to AC and paladin to get it to saves.

As fun as it sounds, I don't recommend taking multiple progressions (divine and arcane) as you can only take 1 or 2 actions a turn, and you want them to be as effective as possible. Especially with epic metamagic feats (enhance spell comes to mind)

Try to collect immunities (every element, physical damage, REALLY high saves, etc)

[Doc Roc]

Should I put a build up? I normally only work with 13 levels.

[Jon_Dahl]

Call me cynical, but these kind of games last less than the actual character creation :smallfrown:

[Draz74]

Let's see, which is a better source of INT-based divine casting? 20 levels (including PrC boosts like Mystic Theurge) of Archivist, or 20 (effective) levels of Beguiler with Rainbow Servant 10 thrown in there somewhere?

I'm thinking the latter sounds more fun to build ... so ...

Beguiler 1/Wizard 3/Ultimate Magus 10/Rainbow Servant 10/Psion 10/Cerebremancer 10/Archmage 1/Swiftblade 5//Warblade 20/Factotum 20/Swiftblade 5/Master of Nine 5.

That sounds pretty good, yeah. Of course, it flamboyantly stomps on Gestalt's recommendations against dual-progression PrCs. And as long as we're ignoring those anyway, I suppose we could even take the Omnicaster and boost it up 30 more levels. Yikes.

Still, I think it would be hard to find a campaign where my build wasn't good enough.

[Wings of Peace]

Let's see, which is a better source of INT-based divine casting? 20 levels (including PrC boosts like Mystic Theurge) of Archivist, or 20 (effective) levels of Beguiler with Rainbow Servant 10 thrown in there somewhere?

I'm thinking the latter sounds more fun to build ... so ...

Beguiler 1/Wizard 3/Ultimate Magus 10/Rainbow Servant 10/Psion 10/Cerebremancer 10/Archmage 1/Swiftblade 5//Warblade 20/Factotum 20/Swiftblade 5/Master of Nine 5.

That sounds pretty good, yeah. Of course, it flamboyantly stomps on Gestalt's recommendations against dual-progression PrCs. And as long as we're ignoring those anyway, I suppose we could even take the Omnicaster and boost it up 30 more levels. Yikes.

Still, I think it would be hard to find a campaign where my build wasn't good enough.

-Why worry about wizard when you can keep all your casting in one class with Prestige Paladin and Paladin of the Arcane Order? That and tainted casting will give you more than enough spells per day anyways.

-While fun why bother with Manifesting and Maneuvers when you could instead be piling on metamagics and supplementing the rest with epic casting?

-You forgot Sanctified One of Kord.

-You forgot Spelldancer.

[Draz74]

-Why worry about wizard when you can keep all your casting in one class with Prestige Paladin and Paladin of the Arcane Order? That and tainted casting will give you more than enough spells per day anyways.
Because I was going for an Intelligence-SAD build. It has better synergy with Factotum, which you're definitely going to want for the action economy advantage.


-While fun why bother with Manifesting and Maneuvers when you could instead be piling on metamagics and supplementing the rest with epic casting?
Oh, I assumed this build would still be doing a LOT of metamagic and epic casting. It doesn't focus on those as much as it could (e.g. fitting in Incantatrix levels), but it can still do them well.


-You forgot Sanctified One of Kord.

-You forgot Spelldancer.

Yeah, I'm not familiar with those. Meh.

[Wings of Peace]

Yeah, I'm not familiar with those. Meh.

Both are quite handy. Sanctified One of Kord for a single level of caster loss lets you convert all damage from fire type spells into divine damage. So short the inability to die from damage you can nuke pretty much anything with metamagickd fire spells.

Spelldancer lets you perform dances that mitigate the level adjustment of metamagics at the price of ability damage. So just cast something to negate ability damage and you can persist all the spells you want.

[Killer Angel]

Presumably at that point they're too busy battling deities and holding off the armies of the abyss.


Tucker's Balors.

[Kaiyanwang]

Tucker's Balors.

Outstanding, sir. Outstanding and partially true.

[Killer Angel]

Outstanding, sir. Outstanding and partially true.

Eh, You know, those nasty critters, too cowards for an open fight... :smalltongue:

BTW, I agree with SurlySeraph, for such a build, you cannot leave away the Druid (possibly followed by Planar Sh.).
Heck, the druid is a sort of gestalt (caster & meleer) by himself!

[Iferus]

I'd definitely go for the spontaneous Cleric spells cheese using beguiler, dread Necromancer or Warmage and Radiant Servant. Perhaps even take two of those classes to some extent for all the spontaneous casting. The ones that aren't as cool at higher levels can simply be PRC'ed into goodies like the Divine Oracle. You have levels to spare anyway.

[Iferus]

You guys got me thinking (or rather, my enthusiasm for signal analysis was not.. existant)

I've tried to just get whatever I could. This has Lv 20 Arcane, Lv 20 Divine, Lv 20 psionics, Lv 20 Martial, full BAB and saves pre-epic and more..

The Warblade uses his two stances to grant a double five foot step and a second counter per turn; specialist in Diamond Mind.
The Bard covers lower level Illlusion and Enchantment.
The Beguiler covers higher level Illusion and Enchantment, in addition to her cleric spells.
The Wizard specialises in Conjuration and does a little on the side for Abjuration.
The Erudite can do anything that is still lacking.


Pre-Epic

Bard 10 (for ref and will)
- Lyric Thaumaturge 10

Warblade 20 (for fort and BAB)

Epic

Beguiler 2
- Rainbow Servant 10
- Divine Oracle 8

Erudite 20

Wizard 1 (Conjuration specialist, ban Illusion and Enchantment; immediate magic variant)
- Divine Oracle 2
- Master Specialist 10
- Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7

[Lysander]

Does the progression not work if you take a class with a weaker hit dice than the bard alongside the Warblade? If possible you should try to pair the strongest HD classes with the weakest HD, since with each level you only take the higher die.

[Kobold-Bard]

One level in 100 classes. :smallyuk:

If you don't use the Fractional rules from UA then your BAB will suck, but DEAR GOD your saves will be obscene (not that this helps, but it's still something).

Wizard 21/Cleric 21/XX 8 // Warblade 20/Psion 21/XX 10

Persist Shapechange & Timeless Body. You're immortal and a dragon. Everything else is irrelevant.

[Quirp]

Didn`t someone build a character with the maximal feats at level 20?
Expand that to Gestalt 50 and take every feat you can get your hands on


And then take some more.