PDA

View Full Version : Starting a Wizard, Need Help [3.5]



Noedig
2010-02-15, 10:57 PM
I have a plan for a wizard build that I'll be using in my next game. I'm looking for advice as this will be my first wizard in roughly a decade. So without further ado:
Class: Wizard
Race: Tiefling (+2 Int, +2 Dex, LA+1, Darkness spell like ability, and some nifty resists)
Feats: 1st, Collegiate Wizard (begin play with 6 1st level spells known plus one per point of Int modifier, learn 4 spells at every level gained, plus 2 on know arcana. Normal is 3 1st level spells at level 1 and 2 new spells every time you get a level.)
Abilities: Unrolled, but let us a assume at least 18 int (16 w/o bonus)
Thats the skinny on him so far. I intend to play him as a magical assassin, so there will likely be a fair bit of illusion, necromancy, and possibly evocation should things go bad.
I may eventually take rogue levels but that will be based on relevant roleplay. Suggestions? I have most 3.X books so unless its really obscure I should be able to find whatever it is that is suggested.

Mongoose87
2010-02-15, 11:02 PM
Consider Lesser Tiefling.

Kylarra
2010-02-15, 11:04 PM
I have a plan for a wizard build that I'll be using in my next game. I'm looking for advice as this will be my first wizard in roughly a decade. So without further ado:
Class: Wizard
Race: Tiefling (+2 Int, +2 Dex, LA+1, Darkness spell like ability, and some nifty resists)
Feats: 1st, Collegiate Wizard (begin play with 6 1st level spells known plus one per point of Int modifier, learn 4 spells at every level gained, plus 2 on know arcana. Normal is 3 1st level spells at level 1 and 2 new spells every time you get a level.)
Abilities: Unrolled, but let us a assume at least 18 int (16 w/o bonus)
Thats the skinny on him so far. I intend to play him as a magical assassin, so there will likely be a fair bit of illusion, necromancy, and possibly evocation should things go bad.
I may eventually take rogue levels but that will be based on relevant roleplay. Suggestions? I have most 3.X books so unless its really obscure I should be able to find whatever it is that is suggested.Well, collegiate wizard is generally overkill unless you expect to have difficulties finding spells, but since you'll have so many spells, I suggest specializing.

I'll also suggest playing a Lesser Tiefling (PgtF) so that you have LA 0, you'll lose your Outsider traits, but retain the nice stat bonuses.

/generic info probably ninja'd

Noedig
2010-02-15, 11:18 PM
I've got my PgtF in front of me, but I dont see Lesser Tiefling. What page is it on?

Kylarra
2010-02-15, 11:24 PM
I've got my PgtF in front of me, but I dont see Lesser Tiefling. What page is it on?pg 190-191, "Lesser Planetouched" explains that by losing their outsider traits and gaining the double whammy of being outsiders & humanoids as long as it sucks for you, you lose your +1 LA.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-15, 11:32 PM
If you are planning on going magical assassin route, Unseen seer (Complete mage) is full of goodnes, you only need a level in rogue, to meet the pre-requisites and practiced spellcaster (Complete arcane or mage) to offset the CL loss on non-divination spell.

Also consider specializing in conjuration it gets EXCELENT spells including some Direct damage ones such as the orbs plus it opens path to abrupt jaunt (PH II) ACF.

Also +1 to lesser tiefling

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-15, 11:35 PM
Useful links:
This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0)
and This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002&page=2)

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-15, 11:35 PM
Also +1 to lesser tieflingDon't you mean +0? :smalltongue:

Noedig
2010-02-15, 11:36 PM
I think I'll stick with the standard tiefling. Fits his backstory, and the Lesser Tiefling is just a tad...bad. The DM is likely going to start us off at higher than level 1, so it wont be as big of deal at it normally would.
As to my choice of feat, which feat would you select at level 1?

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-15, 11:37 PM
I think I'll stick with the standard tiefling. Fits his backstory, and the Lesser Tiefling is just a tad...bad. The DM is likely going to start us off at higher than level 1, so it wont be as big of deal at it normally would.
As to my choice of feat, which feat would you select at level 1?

If you go the Conjuration route (which has several spells quite good for assassiny types (like the orbs)), Cloudy Conjuration (CM) is both highly useful and quite flavorful.

Flickerdart
2010-02-15, 11:38 PM
If your DM allows LA Buyoff, you can go ahead and do the regular Tiefling. The standard +2 INT LA0 race is Gray Elf (MM1), but you can use the level one of Drow from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) and just not take the other levels. Lesser Tiefling is considered very cheesy. If your DM does not allow any of these, Gnomes and Halflings make very goods Wizards, and of course Humans are great.
Specialization is good, since you'll be able to have greater versatility in terms of prepared spells than a Generalist (or if you end up being an Elf, you can get Elven Generalist but it's just not quite as good). Focused Specialist is even better. Evocation, Necromancy and Enchantment are schools that are often dropped; as an assassin-type, you can safely drop Abjuration and Evocation, and if you're going Focused Specialist then throw Enchantment after them.
Improved Initiative is a great feat because initiative won't ever scale. If you go first, that's one turn your enemies will spend asleep, paralyzed or dead instead of killing your buddies.

Noedig
2010-02-15, 11:51 PM
Unseen Seer looks pretty dirty so far :smallsmile:. I'm not terribly familiar with divination spells but it looks as if taking a level in this class would make me better at magical means of detection, or observation, correct?

I'm also not very familiar with specializations. I know that they make me better at my chosen school, and that I lose one or two other schools. Other than that I'm in the dark as to the long term benefits.
Keep in mind this is my first wizard in a LONG time, so I'm rusty.

I see where you're coming from with the Imp Init. Nothing is more frustrating than not being able to act while you get murdered.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-15, 11:54 PM
I'm also not very familiar with specializations. I know that they make me better at my chosen school, and that I lose one or two other schools. Other than that I'm in the dark as to the long term benefits.


The guides I linked earlier go into specializations in pretty good detail, but, basically, the general consensus is that the best schools to specialize in are Conjuration and Transmutation, and the best schools to dump are Enchantment and Evocation.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-15, 11:56 PM
Unseen Seer looks pretty dirty so far :smallsmile:. I'm not terribly familiar with divination spells but it looks as if taking a level in this class would make me better at magical means of detection, or observation, correct?

I'm also not very familiar with specializations. I know that they make me better at my chosen school, and that I lose one or two other schools. Other than that I'm in the dark as to the long term benefits.
Keep in mind this is my first wizard in a LONG time, so I'm rusty.

I see where you're coming from with the Imp Init. Nothing is more frustrating than not being able to act while you get murdered.

Unseen seer het a higher CL with divination spells, this affects some variables such as duraation , possibilty of overcoming defenses and stuff like that, it also gives you magical protection from divination, and Advanced learning you can learn any divination spell from any spell list: Sniper Shot (long range SA) Hunter's eye (more SA) etc.

Specializating means you loose access to two schools but get another spell slot for your specialty school, It may have an increased CL but I am not sure AFB.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-02-15, 11:59 PM
If you go the Conjuration route (which has several spells quite good for assassiny types (like the orbs)), Cloudy Conjuration (CM) is both highly useful and quite flavorful.

For summoning, I am a big, big fan of Cloud Conjuration. My suggestion would be to go (Focused) Conjurer, dumping Evocation, Enchantment, and Necromancy. If you've got a cleric in the party to cover Abjuration, consider that in place of Necromancy. Everything Enchantment can offer you, Illusion will probably do better.

Now, as an assassin-y character, I would work towards Unseen Seer (Complete Mage), starting off as a Spellthief (Complete Adventurer), using Master Spellthief (Complete Scoundrel) to help offset the loss of wizard casting.

Rough build: Spellthief 1 (for extra skill points)/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Full casting 5, where Full Casting 5 is something like Spellwarp Sniper (if you go ranged for sneak attack), Arcane Trickster, or whatever else floats your boat.

Grab Hunter's Eye (PHB2, Ranger spell [normally]) and pump out the sneak attack dice! Focus on either getting gritty with TWF, in which case, make sure you have abrupt jaunt (PHB2, alternate class feature) to prevent your untimely demise or work towards (ab)using metamagic'd orbs of doomy doomy doom.

Season to taste. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240) Admittedly, this guide is a little dated.

Noedig
2010-02-16, 12:03 AM
A tiny speed bump I can see with the Unseen Seer is the eventual -3 to caster level when casting non divination spells. There could be difficulties in late game due to that.

Pluto
2010-02-16, 12:09 AM
A tiny speed bump I can see with the Unseen Seer is the eventual -3 to caster level when casting non divination spells. There could be difficulties in late game due to that.

With Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane, that -3 goes away. (As does the 1 lost from a Rogue level.)

That's also the reason I'd skip Spellthief and stick to Rogue; you're going to be eating a feat slot anyway to boost CL, no need to blow two.

But the Complete Mage specialist feats (Cloudy Conjuration, Insightful Divination, etc.) are pretty neat.

I like Collegiate Wizard, but if you aren't taking it, one of those or Improved Initiative is probably the way to go.

If you're going to be doing much sneaking, there's also the Darkstalker feat in Lords of Madness, which lets you creep up on creatures with Scent/Blindsight/Tremorsense.

And remember that the Outsider type carries Martial Weapon proficiencies with it. That means you get to plink with a real bow.

Kosjsjach
2010-02-16, 12:10 AM
A tiny speed bump I can see with the Unseen Seer is the eventual -3 to caster level when casting non divination spells. There could be difficulties in late game due to that.

The understanding is you'll be picking up the Practiced Spellcaster feat anyway to offset your caster level loss to whatever skillmonkey class you build on; if you only take one, then the +4 CL tops off your non-Divination spells while retaining the bonus CL.

EDIT: I'll say it again; we should really have a ninja-smiley.

Noedig
2010-02-16, 12:12 AM
It bares mentioning I'm not much of an optimizer as it tends to really piss off my DM. He's cool with PrCs and the like but he gets annoyed when people are rocking 4-5 classes.

In his game I could likely do 3 classes at most and there is a good chance I'd only do two. More and it gets to be an issue with meta gaming the game.

What book is Focused Specialist in? That might be a good route if I'm going to be orbing people to death. Also I'm thinking about rocking some fun metamagic feats, ala sculpt spell, still, silent, energy substitution and the like. Might pick up Eschew materials, simply because components annoy me to death, and having my spell pouched nuked, effectively neuters me.

Fantastic advice so far BTW

Pluto
2010-02-16, 12:13 AM
Oh, and if you're building a Rogue/Wizard, it usually helps to start with the Rogue level. The extra 24 skill points go a long way.

If you want the Wizard fluff from level 1, you can take one of Complete Arcane's feats that grant SLA's and retrain it once you get your first wizard level.

Gorbash
2010-02-16, 02:34 AM
Definitely consider taking a Specialist, they're waaaaaay better than generalist wizard.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-16, 02:48 AM
I strongly urge you to consider Conjurer specialization for the ACF in the PhB II. Basically, you give up the Familiar to port around the battlefield. Very awesomely nifty.

Here's a suggested build:

Rogue1/Spellthief1/Conjurer5/Arcane Trickster10/Archmage3

You get:

7d6 Sneak Attack
Casting in Light Armor with no ASF (Master Spellthief)
9th level spells
Abrupt Jaunt

However, if you are wanting a magical type assassin, Warlock may be a better vehicle.

You get Eldritch Blast, which you can apply Sneak Attack with. At-will Invisibility by level 6, Darkness as an at-will SLA by level 1 for Concealment (so you can make a Hide check), flight, Dim-door, and more fun goodies... all as at-will SLA's. The only problem will be getting enough sneak attack on top of it, since it doesn't cast spells. But, there's a work-around for that.

Rogue/Warlock/Assassin/Arcane Trickster

Here's the fun part, while you qualify for AT with Assassin, you can advance Warlock levels.

Oh, and Warlocks Take 10 on Use Magic Device checks at level 4, so you also get almost any spell in the game you want to bother spending money on.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-16, 03:40 AM
I'll agree that specializing in Conjuration is the way to go. Abrupt Jaunt from PH2 is an immediate action, i.e. some bignasty just charged in and pounced you and is about to take its first of many swings, so you teleport out of its reach and its attacks all swing into an empty square. Plus Conjuration is the most versatile and capable school available, and has better damage dealing spells than evocation. I'd ban Evocation and probably either Enchantment or Necromancy, depending.

Lesser Tiefling's only drawback is the loss of the Outsider creature type. Its perceived drawback of being susceptible to effects which target outsiders is moot due to the introduction of the Extraplanar subtype. Nothing can ever be Banished or Dismissed from its home plane, and this is no exception. Anything on a plane it isn't native to has the Extraplanar subtype, and can be Banished or Dismissed regardless of creature type. Sometimes you just wonder if the designers have ever played their own game. The only difference between +1 LA Tiefling and the +0 LA Lesser Tiefling is the creature type and level adjustment. Check the sidebar on page 150 of Races of Destiny, you can even add the Human subtype to Lesser Tiefling and qualify for human-only feats, prestige classes, and magic items, such as Able Learner. If you're planning on multiclassing Wizard with a skill-heavy class such as Rogue, this is definitely something to consider.

Take a look at the Beguiler base class in PH2, and consider using that with Wizard and going into Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage. If you take Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler, you could go Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ UM 10 and add 9/10 UM spellcasting to Wizard. Pick up one or two Flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) and get Able Learner at level 1 to keep all those nice skills at max ranks at no additional cost. Get Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon and you can spend Beguiler spell slots to spontaneously cast any Wizard spells you know, including spells which you've only made the Spellcraft check to understand but haven't scribed into your book. With a decent Bluff check and an NPC organization which charges the standard fee (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook) of spell level x 50 gp to copy spells, you can read a spell, make the Spellcraft check to understand it, pretend you didn't get it and don't copy it into your book, repeat as often as desired. The standard one spell/day added only applies to writing them into your book, so you could possibly go through the entire Wizard spell list in a single day. Maybe they'd catch on to your scheme, or maybe they'd just think you're the dumbest wizard in town. Regardless, you could then use Secret Page to put any spell you've made the check for into your book in place of a 1st level spell, and it would take only a single page regardless of its level.

If you're going to multiclass into something like Rogue, consider using Swordsage instead. It gets x6 skill points at 1st level (possibly a typo, but hasn't been errated) and you can even use Assassin's Stance to qualify for Arcane Trickster if that's what you're going for. Divine Oracle from CD is another decent choice, you can get the prerequisite feat for 2,000 gp via the Frog God's Fane in CS (or for free if you RP it), and even a 4-level dip is exceptional.

Noedig
2010-02-16, 12:30 PM
Lots and lots of very good advice. I see I came to the right place. I honestly hadn't thought of warlock, and after reviewing it, it may be the way I want to go. I would give up some of the versatility of the wizard, but having at will SLAs is a solid trade in my mind.
I'm currently AFB, but I can see myself possibly going Rogue/Warlock/Assassin/AT. I'll speak with my DM about it and see if hes agreeable. How far should I dip in rogue and assassin? Also if memory serves, metamagic feats do not effect SLAs. Am I misinformed on that?

Starbuck_II
2010-02-16, 12:32 PM
I have a plan for a wizard build that I'll be using in my next game. I'm looking for advice as this will be my first wizard in roughly a decade. So without further ado:
Class: Wizard
Race: Tiefling (+2 Int, +2 Dex, LA+1, Darkness spell like ability, and some nifty resists)
Feats: 1st, Collegiate Wizard (begin play with 6 1st level spells known plus one per point of Int modifier, learn 4 spells at every level gained, plus 2 on know arcana. Normal is 3 1st level spells at level 1 and 2 new spells every time you get a level.)
Abilities: Unrolled, but let us a assume at least 18 int (16 w/o bonus)
Thats the skinny on him so far. I intend to play him as a magical assassin, so there will likely be a fair bit of illusion, necromancy, and possibly evocation should things go bad.
I may eventually take rogue levels but that will be based on relevant roleplay. Suggestions? I have most 3.X books so unless its really obscure I should be able to find whatever it is that is suggested.

Have you considered Tiefling Blooodline from UA rather than the race?

Tyndmyr
2010-02-16, 12:40 PM
It bares mentioning I'm not much of an optimizer as it tends to really piss off my DM. He's cool with PrCs and the like but he gets annoyed when people are rocking 4-5 classes.

In his game I could likely do 3 classes at most and there is a good chance I'd only do two. More and it gets to be an issue with meta gaming the game.

Your DM needs a book to the head. A variety of classes is not necessarily metagaming. Nor is it even necessarily more powerful. Some classes require 2+ to even take them. Any theurge class, for example. This is not metagaming, unfluffy, or even necessarily powerful. Characters are not aware of class levels.

You can make quite powerful wizzies with only one PrC, or even none at all, though. Pick anything with full casting that looks good, you'll be fine.


What book is Focused Specialist in? That might be a good route if I'm going to be orbing people to death. Also I'm thinking about rocking some fun metamagic feats, ala sculpt spell, still, silent, energy substitution and the like. Might pick up Eschew materials, simply because components annoy me to death, and having my spell pouched nuked, effectively neuters me.

Fantastic advice so far BTW

Focused specialist and Master Specialist go great together. Conjuration, preferably, if you're going to have fun with orbs.

Ignore eschew materials, just buy a small pile of pouches for a trivial sum of gold, then describe in great length the details you go to to ensure that one is always available. If your DM gets his kicks by destroyed component pouches, he deserves this.

Noedig
2010-02-16, 02:15 PM
Like I said I'll talk to the DM. Chances are good that he'll be cool with it.

If I go the warlock way, i'll be losing spells and picking up SLAs which is cool with me. Plus I like the flavor. Possible issue is the lack of meta magic feats, as he doesnt really use spells.

If I go wizard I'll probably be focusing in Conj. Is there a way to keep enchantment? Im a fan of the charm/dominate/hold and similar spells. Magic jar is especially fun.

Lastly, what meta magic feats should I be taking? Im not really into item creation, and the spot is likely going to be filled by an artificer or something similar. Right off the bat, Sculpt Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Empower look pretty good to me. Suggestions?

Ormagoden
2010-02-16, 02:28 PM
Read this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=431.0) and never look back.

Critical
2010-02-16, 02:42 PM
Take lesser tiefling, if you really want to play a tiefling. LA is bad for wizards.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-16, 02:53 PM
If I go wizard I'll probably be focusing in Conj. Is there a way to keep enchantment? Im a fan of the charm/dominate/hold and similar spells. Magic jar is especially fun.

Ban evocation and illusion. Illusion, in practice, is easily negated by true seeing.

If you opt for focused specialist, ban school #3 should be necromancy.


Lastly, what meta magic feats should I be taking? Im not really into item creation, and the spot is likely going to be filled by an artificer or something similar. Right off the bat, Sculpt Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Empower look pretty good to me. Suggestions?

Extend spell is also situationally good. Invisible Spell is pure awesomeness.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-02-16, 03:02 PM
I highly suggest a build as such:

Lesser Tiefling
Focused Evoker or Abjurer 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 2/Incantrix 10/Archmage 3

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-16, 03:05 PM
I highly suggest a build as such:

Lesser Tiefling
Focused Evoker or Abjurer 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 2/Incantrix 10/Archmage 3

What is the rationale behind Evoker or Abjurer? Surely you would be stronger as Conjuror or Transmuter?

LichPrinceAlim
2010-02-16, 03:08 PM
What is the rationale behind Evoker or Abjurer? Surely you would be stronger as Conjuror or Transmuter?

You basically have to focus on Abjuration to be an Incantrix...

However, I dislike conjuration except in Malconvoker builds.

and as for Transmutation, It doesn't matter. You, as an Incantrix, cannot ban it. So I personally'd ban Conjuration (I don't summon), Illusion, and Necromancy

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-16, 03:10 PM
You could go something like Rogue 4/ Warlock 1/ Assassin 5/ Arcane Trickster 10, applying AT spellcasting to Warlock. You can use the feat Spell Hand in CA to meet the Mage Hand prerequisite for AT. That build originally used Wizard in place of Warlock, and it's mostly a skills/sneak attack focused build. Definitely get Practiced Spellcaster for Warlock. I'd get Devil's Sight from Warlock and use your Darkness spell-like ability or cast (Deeper) Darkness from your Assassin list to enable you to hide. You could cast Deeper Darkness on a pendant and hold it in your mouth to block the effect, and 'drop' it as a free action by spitting it out so it returns to hanging around your neck and plunges the room into darkness.

You can take Quicken/Maximize Spell-Like Ability for your Eldritch Blast, which as per errata (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) is always considered a 1st level spell. With the above build and Practiced Spellcaster you can take Quicken at level 15, and Maximize at level 12. You can also take Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast, and get +2 DC to any Eldritch Essence you use with it.

For metamagic feats, I've always liked Split Ray. It's cheap and gives a spell double the effect. Chain Spell is also useful, but I'd stick with a metamagic rod (CA) for that. Definitely get a Circlet of Rapid Casting in MIC on whatever you decide to play.

lsfreak
2010-02-16, 03:12 PM
So I personally'd ban Conjuration (I don't summon), Illusion, and Necromancy
I suggest you read the Batman Wizard thread too :p

Conjuration is flat-out better than Evocation. Illusion has the best defenses. Never ban them unless you're purposely gimping yourself for roleplay reasons.

Best banned schools are Evocation and Enchantment, plus in your case Necro. I hate losing Necromancy, but with Incantatrix it's kind of a necessary evil. Comes down to Necromancy versus Abjuration, but you can't give up Abj unless you're not an incantatrix and there's another caster to cover dispels.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-16, 03:14 PM
You basically have to focus on Abjuration to be an Incantrix...

However, I dislike conjuration except in Malconvoker builds.

and as for Transmutation, It doesn't matter. You, as an Incantrix, cannot ban it. So I personally'd ban Conjuration (I don't summon), Illusion, and Necromancy

Conjuration is probably the most versatile (and until high levels, arguably the best) school in the game. Seriously. It gets teleportation, the best battle-field control, Save or Suck/Die, and can outblast evocation to boot. Summoning is just an extra bonus.

Evocation, Necromancy, and Enchantment are, IMO, the most bannanable schools.

mostlyharmful
2010-02-16, 03:17 PM
You basically have to focus on Abjuration to be an Incantrix...

No you don't, you just can't ban it.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-16, 03:20 PM
Illusion has the best defenses.

Not always the case. While illusion's defenses are indisputably powerful, they're also quite easy to overcome at high levels. At a certain point, everything that is worth being invisible to or mirror image'd from can find you with True Sight, Blindsense, tremmorsense, or some such tomfoolery.

That said, due to the Shadow Evocation line, illusion does pick up some defensive gems like Contingency.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-16, 03:23 PM
Lots and lots of very good advice. I see I came to the right place. I honestly hadn't thought of warlock, and after reviewing it, it may be the way I want to go. I would give up some of the versatility of the wizard, but having at will SLAs is a solid trade in my mind.
I'm currently AFB, but I can see myself possibly going Rogue/Warlock/Assassin/AT. I'll speak with my DM about it and see if hes agreeable. How far should I dip in rogue and assassin? Also if memory serves, metamagic feats do not effect SLAs. Am I misinformed on that?

Rogue3/Warlock2/Assassin5/Arcane Trickster10 is the build I came up with.

And no, you cannot apply metamagic feats to SLA's, however there are a few feats which work like Metamagic feats for SLA's, only they work 3x/day, kinda like the Sudden Metamagic feats.

With the above build, you get:

10d6 SA.

3 Least Invocations
3 Lesser Invocations
1 Greater Invocation
4d6 Eldritch Blast

not to mention all the Arcane Trickster toys.

With this spread, I suggest the following invocations:

Eldritch Glaive. Least Invocation, melee touch attack with 10' reach, can make a full attack
Darkness. To make Concealment for you to Hide in. Plus, you can look like you're throwing a flash-smoke bomb at your feet when casting it.
Either Baleful Utterance or See The Unseen, depending on which you prefer. Baleful Utterance = Shatter at-will. Really handy at times. See The Unseen = See Invis always up. Also kinda handy. Oh, it's also Darkvision, but you already have that as a Tiefling. Unless you just want to go a Strongheart Halfling for the bonus feat.

For you lessers, my suggestions:

Flee The Scene. Really handy get out of trouble card. DimDoor, and leave an Illusion behind. Better than a smoke bomb!
Fell Flight. Because if they can't reach you, they can't hit you.
Walk Unseen is at-will Invisibility. But you already have Darkness and a really good Hide check. Shouldn't be necessary
Charm. Single-target only, if you Charm someone else, the first one wears off. But hey, if that's what you like to do...
Voracious Dispelling. So you've got a really annoying caster being a Pain. Then he finds all his buffs stripped from him. Assuming he doesn't get killed from the damage, he's buff-nekkid with your party Beatstick grinning and charging.

Greater Invocations: There's really only one or two here you need, but you only get one

Chilling Tentacles. It's Evard's Black Tentacles... with Cold Damage thrown in. Battlefield control is always handy.
Vitriolic Blast. I've been avoiding any of the blast essence or blast invocations up until now because... well... they mostly suck. None of the 'damage plus status effect worth a damn' show up until here anyways. But this one... this one is worth it. Why? Ignore SR. Pretty handy, eh?
Hindering Blast. Target makes a Will Save or be Slowed. What's not to like about that?

With 10d6 Sneak Attack plus 4d6 Eldritch Blast plus your ability to use whatever Wand of <x>strike to bypass immunity to sneak attack, you're going to be dishing out 14d6 a shot. +2d6 if you pick up the neck slot item from MIC. You can flank with Eldritch Glaive if they are able to spot you while hiding.

Noedig
2010-02-16, 04:45 PM
Im reviewing yur build suggestion shneekey, and it looks pretty solid. If AT advances you CL by 1 at each new level, would the Warlocks Eldritch blast be 4d6 or 6d6 at 12th level?
Also what specific feats are we dealing with here in regards to SLAs and where did you see eldritch glaive?

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-16, 04:56 PM
Im reviewing yur build suggestion shneekey, and it looks pretty solid. If AT advances you CL by 1 at each new level, would the Warlocks Eldritch blast be 4d6 or 6d6 at 12th level?
Also what specific feats are we dealing with here in regards to SLAs and where did you see eldritch glaive?

Ahh, yes. It would be 6d6 EB.

Eldritch Glaive is in Dragon Magic.

SLA feats are found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#empowerSpellLikeAbility), as well as other places. Eldritch Blast counts as a 1st level spell, by the way, unless you add on something like a Blast Essence invocation.

Noedig
2010-02-16, 05:14 PM
According to the text of quicken spell like ability:
Using a quickened spell-like ability is a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The creature can perform another action—including the use of another spell-like ability—in the same round that it uses a quickened spell-like ability. The creature may use only one quickened spell-like ability per round.
Does this mean that I could not use Eldritch blast a second time in one round?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-16, 05:25 PM
According to the text of quicken spell like ability:
Does this mean that I could not use Eldritch blast a second time in one round?


That meand that you cannot use a quickened SLA for a second time even if you gained a second swift action..

Noedig
2010-02-16, 05:38 PM
ah i see. So upon using quickened EB, which is a free action, I could still spend a standard action to use EB again.

A question about AT; It provides a +1 to existing class, but as the build has three classes, would I be able to chose which to advance? Also, in advancing through the AT class, would I be losing some niffty abilities, like fiendish resilence, deceive item, energy resits, and damage reduction?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-16, 05:46 PM
ah i see. So upon using quickened EB, which is a free action, I could still spend a standard action to use EB again.

A question about AT; It provides a +1 to existing class, but as the build has three classes, would I be able to chose which to advance? Also, in advancing through the AT class, would I be losing some niffty abilities, like fiendish resilence, deceive item, energy resits, and damage reduction?

AT just imptoves your casting, you would gain access to better invocations and imporvement of EB, and if you have more than an casting class you need to choose wich to advance with PRG class

Noedig
2010-02-16, 07:47 PM
I think I may have found something that caters to both my wish to play a wizard, and my attraction to warlocks; Eldritch Theurge.

The only conceivable problem i can forsee with this is that ill be Warlock 3/Wizard 3/ET 1

Something inside of me wants to say its a trap, but I'm not sure.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-16, 08:33 PM
I think I may have found something that caters to both my wish to play a wizard, and my attraction to warlocks; Eldritch Theurge.

The only conceivable problem i can forsee with this is that ill be Warlock 3/Wizard 3/ET 1

Something inside of me wants to say its a trap, but I'm not sure.

Most people will say this is bad but try this build:

Wiz 1/Warlock 4/ET x
Edit: Forgot, you need the feat precocious aprentice to qualify with just one level of wizard

Some days ago I posted this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7878972#post7878972), might help you

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-17, 12:53 AM
ah i see. So upon using quickened EB, which is a free action, I could still spend a standard action to use EB again.

A question about AT; It provides a +1 to existing class, but as the build has three classes, would I be able to chose which to advance? Also, in advancing through the AT class, would I be losing some niffty abilities, like fiendish resilence, deceive item, energy resits, and damage reduction?

It only promotes casting because only the casting is worth a darn. DR is in such piddling amounts that it isn't worth bothering with. Likewise with the energy resists and fiendish resilience.

Deceive item is very fun, but ultimately less powerful than the kind of damage output you can get otherwise. You can drop a couple of levels of AT and pick up a couple of levels of 'Lock if you really need it. You'll just miss out on +1d6 sneak attack.

Do not go the way of Early Entry Cheese, young padawan. That leads to the Dark Side of the Optimization. Precocious Apprentice should never be allowed to qualify anyone for a PrC.

Noedig
2010-02-17, 03:10 PM
In your build shneekey, is it necessary to take the rogue levels first? This is more of a flavor question rather than a mechanic one.