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Terrowin
2010-02-16, 11:42 AM
i've got a friend thats running a villian dnd game, i was wanting to make a cheese level 10, any race. has to be an ecl of 10, and i think its an eborron setting.

paddyfool
2010-02-16, 11:48 AM
1) What flavour of cheese? (What kind of cheesy abilities do you actually want?)

2) To keep up with an optimised party, to survive a killer DM, or to outshine your buddies? (Note: two of these are very wrong answers).

3) Do you have any roleplaying concepts in mind at all?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-16, 12:25 PM
Human Cleric of Zarus (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a) 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative 10. Domains are War, Strength, Oracle, Law, and Destiny in that order. Say you visited the Frog God's Fane in CS to get Skill Focus: Kn: Religion for 2,000 gp instead of wasting a feat on it. Get Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, Extra Turning, Craft Rod, Power Attack, Quicken Spell, and DMM: Quicken in that order. Get a Lesser Rod of Extend, a +1 Animated shield, Mithral Full Plate, a decent Greatsword, and make as many Night Sticks as you can afford to. The Lesser Rod of Extend is for Delay Poison and Magic Vestment twice. You'll probably have to manually cast Extended GMW on your greatsword. Use the standard array of DMM: Persist spells (Divine Favor, Divine Power, Magic Circle, Nightshield, Mass Lesser Vigor, etc.). By level 12 you should try to get a standard Rod of Extend and a 6th level Pearl of Power, so every day you can alternate between casting Energy Immunity three times or Energy Immunity twice and Superior Resistance. By level 17 you'll have the Destiny domain and be able to DMM: Persist Choose Destiny, which is probably one of the best buffs in the game. Get a Greater Rod of Chain Spell (CA) and use it when casting Destruction, the save DC won't be reduced for secondary targets because it deals damage.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-16, 12:32 PM
Human Cleric of Zarus (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a) 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative 10. Domains are War, Strength, Oracle, Law, and Destiny in that order. Say you visited the Frog God's Fane in CS to get Skill Focus: Kn: Religion for 2,000 gp instead of wasting a feat on it. Get Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, Extra Turning, Craft Rod, Power Attack, Quicken Spell, and DMM: Quicken in that order. Get a Lesser Rod of Extend, a +1 Animated shield, Mithral Full Plate, a decent Greatsword, and make as many Night Sticks as you can afford to. The Lesser Rod of Extend is for Delay Poison and Magic Vestment twice. You'll probably have to manually cast Extended GMW on your greatsword. Use the standard array of DMM: Persist spells (Divine Favor, Divine Power, Magic Circle, Nightshield, Mass Lesser Vigor, etc.). By level 12 you should try to get a standard Rod of Extend and a 6th level Pearl of Power, so every day you can alternate between casting Energy Immunity three times or Energy Immunity twice and Superior Resistance. By level 17 you'll have the Destiny domain and be able to DMM: Persist Choose Destiny, which is probably one of the best buffs in the game. Get a Greater Rod of Chain Spell (CA) and use it when casting Destruction, the save DC won't be reduced for secondary targets because it deals damage.

Just curious, but how is this helpful for an ECL10 game? He needs to be cheesy immediately - planning for long-term in an Evil game could be a very poor strategy.

Terrowin
2010-02-17, 12:21 PM
i need it to prove a point. the dm has a habit of rules lawering in others games. he droped it to ecl of 10 to keep some people from playing what they want. he plays stats not characters, and wants people to play characters in his games not stats.

Overshee
2010-02-17, 12:22 PM
i need it to prove a point. the dm has a habit of rules lawering in others games. he droped it to ecl of 10 to keep some people from playing what they want. he plays stats not characters, and wants people to play characters in his games not stats.

Why don't you get back at him by playing an extremely well RP'd character instead of cheesing it up?

Terrowin
2010-02-17, 12:30 PM
thats what i normaly do.

Terrowin
2010-02-17, 12:33 PM
everyone had a specific type of character they wanted to play, then he put it at ecl of 10, and i think only one person didn't have to change what they were playing.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-17, 12:34 PM
Why don't you get back at him by playing an extremely well RP'd character instead of cheesing it up?

Not to Stormwind an interesting thread, but these don't have to be exclusive. He can build the most ridonkulous cheesemonster ever to turn its unholy gaze upon an innocent gametable, and still RP it beautifully. Actually, if he can pull this off, it's the best of both worlds...he gets to show off that the DM's attempt to crush cheese failed without giving anything obvious to complain about.

Overshee
2010-02-17, 12:37 PM
Not to Stormwind an interesting thread, but these don't have to be exclusive. He can build the most ridonkulous cheesemonster ever to turn its unholy gaze upon an innocent gametable, and still RP it beautifully. Actually, if he can pull this off, it's the best of both worlds...he gets to show off that the DM's attempt to crush cheese failed without giving anything obvious to complain about.

Very true. I was trying to make the point that just because his DM usually plays "stats not characters" doesn't mean he has to as well to get even.

Terrowin
2010-02-17, 12:41 PM
well i have always had a habit of doing what the character would over what he could. i don't think i could just play stats. but it would be nice to have them.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-02-17, 12:43 PM
ECL 10 ya say....

Vashara Beguiler 6/Mindbender 1/Thrallheard 3 anyone?

or maybe

Warforged Fighter 5/Souleater 5

or even

Hengeyokai Swordsage 6/ Master of Many Forms 4

take your pick

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-17, 01:16 PM
ECL 10 ya say....

Vashara Beguiler 6/Mindbender 1/Thrallheard 3 anyone?

or maybe

Warforged Fighter 5/Souleater 5

or even

Hengeyokai Swordsage 6/ Master of Many Forms 4

take your pick
How do you quallify? arent you confusing it with warshaper?

The Glyphstone
2010-02-17, 01:35 PM
How do you quallify? arent you confusing it with warshaper?

Probably because the Hengawhatever thingy can transform into a sparrow. If it's worded right, it would technically qualify.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-17, 02:18 PM
i've got a friend thats running a villian dnd game, i was wanting to make a cheese level 10, any race. has to be an ecl of 10, and i think its an eborron setting.

Archivist 2/Beholder Mage 2/Tainted Scholar 2/Dweomerkeeper 4.

Casting mechanic is best of both worlds between Wizard and Sorcerer (spontaneous casting and can add spells to one's list without limit), you have 8th level spells and can cast 9 of them per round, you have huge spells/day and unbeatable save DCs, and you get Supernatural Spell 1/day, which is awesome.

That's cheese.

faceroll
2010-02-17, 02:30 PM
There's a race in Lost Empires of Faerun called the Phaerimm. They're a race of freaky looking aberrations that get sorcerer casting based on how many character levels they have. The lowest ECL one is a Hatchling; 2 RHD and 2 LA, with casting as a sorcerer of second level. Then take 8 levels of sorcerer (buy off the LA at levels 6 & 9). All these sorcerer levels stack; the Phaerimm has 8 character levels and 2 RHD that give it two sorcerer levels, so it has 10 sorcerer levels from its race. Then that explicitly stacks with any sorcerer levels it has, which happen to be 8.

Congratulations, you are casting 9th level spells at level 10. And you don't even have to mess around with any PAO shens.


Archivist 2/Beholder Mage 2/Tainted Scholar 2/Dweomerkeeper 4.

Casting mechanic is best of both worlds between Wizard and Sorcerer (spontaneous casting and can add spells to one's list without limit), you have 8th level spells and can cast 9 of them per round, you have huge spells/day and unbeatable save DCs, and you get Supernatural Spell 1/day, which is awesome.

That's cheese.

And then you lose it all to a dispel. No thanks!

magic9mushroom
2010-02-17, 02:32 PM
And then you lose it all to a dispel. No thanks!

You has Supernatural Spell and 8th level spells. It cannot be dispelled.

I did miss the Phaerimm though. Phaerimm Sorcerer 2/Tainted Scholar 2/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 4?

Superglucose
2010-02-17, 02:44 PM
2) To keep up with an optimised party, to survive a killer DM, or to outshine your buddies? (Note: two of these are very wrong answers).

I'm not convinced any of those are wrong answers. Keeping up with a party that's optimized while you aren't is valuable and will help make the game more fun for everyone, "killer DM" could very well just mean a GM who likes keeping the baseline fight at CR+2 rather than CR and prefers a higher-powered campaign to throw his shiny monsters around, and in some groups builds are seen as a sort of "challenge" with most of the fun being "HA! I figured out how to do it better!"

This last one happened in a 'playtest' I was doing where we discovered that the system was functionally unplayable without gentlemen's agreements. We tried pointing it out to the system designer who would go on for an hour about how poor our builds really were, despite being COMPLETELY unable to even scratch our characters. So what it degenerated into was "Who's character is the MOST broken?" It was a kind of challenge, and we had a lot of fun describing the absurdly awesome things our characters could do at low levels.

gorfnab
2010-02-17, 02:48 PM
Elf Warlock 1/ Binder 3/ Fiend of Possession 6 - Needs Otherworldly (PGtF) feat and Ritual of Alignment (SS). Or just use Divine Minion entry.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-02-17, 02:53 PM
Probably because the Hengawhatever thingy can transform into a sparrow. If it's worded right, it would technically qualify.

correctomundo.

Technically, anything that can "pseudo-wildshape" can take MoMF.

Hengeyokai can transform nonmagically into one of like 7 or so forms, including Racoon Dog, Carp and Fox, not including Sparrow. Sure, it's underhanded and most DMs'd throw PHB I & II, Monster Manual I-V, and DMG I & II from every edition at you, but it works

magic9mushroom
2010-02-17, 03:11 PM
correctomundo.

Technically, anything that can "pseudo-wildshape" can take MoMF.

Hengeyokai can transform nonmagically into one of like 7 or so forms, including Racoon Dog, Carp and Fox, not including Sparrow. Sure, it's underhanded and most DMs'd throw PHB I & II, Monster Manual I-V, and DMG I & II from every edition at you, but it works

Unless you're planning on Pun-Pun shenanigans, I think a Phaerimm has more power for less dodginess.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-17, 03:11 PM
Maybe go Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) LA +1 (bought off) Master of Many Forms 10. Get a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp, +X Wild Mountain Plate, maybe a Cloak of Cha with a Wilding Clasp for DCs. Take Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, and Assume Supernatural Ability. You can Wild Shape at will as a free action, and remember that you heal as though you rested a night every time you wild shape, and also that you can take forms up to 21 HD.

Wild Shape into an Adult Shadow Dragon (free) and use your breath attack to deal 3 negative levels (standard), Wild Shape into a Beholder (free) and use all of your eye rays (free), Wild Shape into a Choker (free) and use your extra standard action to ready a Death Ray (standard), Wild Shape into a Catoblepas (free) and use your Death Ray (readied), Wild Shape into a Phiuhl (free) and affect everyone with your Death Gas (free), Wild Shape into a Thought Slayer (free) and use your Mind-Consuming Gaze (free) and then Ethereal Jaunt (free). At the start of the next round move-action back to the material plane and repeat the entire process, taking the form of a different individual of each race so you won't have to wait 1d4 rounds to breathe again, etc. because you're not in the form of the same dragon as the last time. On your turn you obliterate everything, when it's not you turn you're ethereal and immune to almost everything in the game.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-17, 03:16 PM
Maybe go Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) LA +1 (bought off) Master of Many Forms 10. Get a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp, +X Wild Mountain Plate, maybe a Cloak of Cha with a Wilding Clasp for DCs. Take Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, and Assume Supernatural Ability. You can Wild Shape at will as a free action, and remember that you heal as though you rested a night every time you wild shape, and also that you can take forms up to 21 HD.

Wild Shape into an Adult Shadow Dragon (free) and use your breath attack to deal 3 negative levels (standard), Wild Shape into a Beholder (free) and use all of your eye rays (free), Wild Shape into a Choker (free) and use your extra standard action to ready a Death Ray (standard), Wild Shape into a Catoblepas (free) and use your Death Ray (readied), Wild Shape into a Phiuhl (free) and affect everyone with your Death Gas (free), Wild Shape into a Thought Slayer (free) and use your Mind-Consuming Gaze (free) and then Ethereal Jaunt (free). At the start of the next round move-action back to the material plane and repeat the entire process, taking the form of a different individual of each race so you won't have to wait 1d4 rounds to breathe again, etc. because you're not in the form of the same dragon as the last time. On your turn you obliterate everything, when it's not you turn you're ethereal and immune to almost everything in the game.

Hail you from the Far Realm, good sir?

Overshee
2010-02-17, 03:20 PM
Maybe go Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) LA +1 (bought off) Master of Many Forms 10. Get a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp, +X Wild Mountain Plate, maybe a Cloak of Cha with a Wilding Clasp for DCs. Take Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, and Assume Supernatural Ability. You can Wild Shape at will as a free action, and remember that you heal as though you rested a night every time you wild shape, and also that you can take forms up to 21 HD.

Wild Shape into an Adult Shadow Dragon (free) and use your breath attack to deal 3 negative levels (standard), Wild Shape into a Beholder (free) and use all of your eye rays (free), Wild Shape into a Choker (free) and use your extra standard action to ready a Death Ray (standard), Wild Shape into a Catoblepas (free) and use your Death Ray (readied), Wild Shape into a Phiuhl (free) and affect everyone with your Death Gas (free), Wild Shape into a Thought Slayer (free) and use your Mind-Consuming Gaze (free) and then Ethereal Jaunt (free). At the start of the next round move-action back to the material plane and repeat the entire process, taking the form of a different individual of each race so you won't have to wait 1d4 rounds to breathe again, etc. because you're not in the form of the same dragon as the last time. On your turn you obliterate everything, when it's not you turn you're ethereal and immune to almost everything in the game.

Well. That is most definitely cheese :smallwink:

magic9mushroom
2010-02-17, 03:22 PM
Well. That is most definitely cheese :smallwink:

Especially since it can go Pun-Pun.

sofawall
2010-02-17, 03:35 PM
correctomundo.

Technically, anything that can "pseudo-wildshape" can take MoMF.

Hengeyokai can transform nonmagically into one of like 7 or so forms, including Racoon Dog, Carp and Fox, not including Sparrow. Sure, it's underhanded and most DMs'd throw PHB I & II, Monster Manual I-V, and DMG I & II from every edition at you, but it works

Either you are wrong, or the optimizers of Gleemax, BG and GitP, as well as the book itself, are all wrong.

JaronK
2010-02-17, 04:37 PM
Archivist 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 5/Tainted Sorcerer 1, using the divine adaptation of Anima Mage and binding Naberius. Endless free metamagic all day long (I recommend Persistant Spell). Go nuts.

JaronK

Tokiko Mima
2010-02-17, 06:00 PM
Just a simple Pixie Warlock, is what I would do. It's what I always do. :smallsmile:

Overshee
2010-02-17, 06:03 PM
Just a simple Pixie Warlock, is what I would do. It's what I always do. :smallsmile:

If you don't like the +4 LA, the Petal (MMIII) does well too.

deuxhero
2010-02-17, 06:58 PM
Aint Pun-Pun under ECL 10?

Starbuck_II
2010-02-17, 07:13 PM
Bloodline by RAW don't cost levels to take their levels. Use them: feel the cheese!

Overshee
2010-02-17, 07:13 PM
Aint Pun-Pun under ECL 10?

Pun-Pun can be done (somewhat questionably) at first level, and more reasonably at level four.

However, anyone who has a way to turn into a specific monster (begins with an s, "sarukkah"?) and can gain access to a certain ability the monster has that can give abilities...

Read more about it here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)

SurlySeraph
2010-02-17, 07:22 PM
Anything (though Warblade or Factotum would do well) 5/ Ur-Priest 5 is a simple solution. Druid 5/ Planar Shepherd 5 choosing Dal Quor or Xoriat as your home plane (if you're in Eberron) is another simple solution.

absolmorph
2010-02-17, 09:43 PM
There's a race in Lost Empires of Faerun called the Phaerimm. They're a race of freaky looking aberrations that get sorcerer casting based on how many character levels they have. The lowest ECL one is a Hatchling; 2 RHD and 2 LA, with casting as a sorcerer of second level. Then take 8 levels of sorcerer (buy off the LA at levels 6 & 9). All these sorcerer levels stack; the Phaerimm has 8 character levels and 2 RHD that give it two sorcerer levels, so it has 10 sorcerer levels from its race. Then that explicitly stacks with any sorcerer levels it has, which happen to be 8.

Congratulations, you are casting 9th level spells at level 10. And you don't even have to mess around with any PAO shens.



And then you lose it all to a dispel. No thanks!
Iyouwhatblasphemymadnesssparta HAX.
I want to do this so much.

Flickerdart
2010-02-17, 10:21 PM
Aint Pun-Pun under ECL 10?
The old Pun-Pun was a Wizard 1/Divine Minion 1/Master of Many Forms 3. Though he needs that familiar to be Pun-Pun proper, so MoMF10 won't work.

absolmorph
2010-02-17, 10:55 PM
The old Pun-Pun was a Wizard 1/Divine Minion 1/Master of Many Forms 3. Though he needs that familiar to be Pun-Pun proper, so MoMF10 won't work.
Isn't there a feat that grants you a familiar? You'll have an extra one by level 10.

Flickerdart
2010-02-17, 11:16 PM
Isn't there a feat that grants you a familiar? You'll have an extra one by level 10.
Still requires arcane casting, if I remember it right.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-17, 11:46 PM
Still requires arcane casting, if I remember it right.Divine minion phaerimm.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-18, 12:40 AM
By the way, the 3.5 Phaerimm only casts as a sorcerer of its hit dice (Player's Guide to Faerun), so no doubling up there.

Os1ris09
2010-02-18, 01:11 AM
Maybe go Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) LA +1 (bought off) Master of Many Forms 10. Get a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp, +X Wild Mountain Plate, maybe a Cloak of Cha with a Wilding Clasp for DCs. Take Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, and Assume Supernatural Ability. You can Wild Shape at will as a free action, and remember that you heal as though you rested a night every time you wild shape, and also that you can take forms up to 21 HD.

Wild Shape into an Adult Shadow Dragon (free) and use your breath attack to deal 3 negative levels (standard), Wild Shape into a Beholder (free) and use all of your eye rays (free), Wild Shape into a Choker (free) and use your extra standard action to ready a Death Ray (standard), Wild Shape into a Catoblepas (free) and use your Death Ray (readied), Wild Shape into a Phiuhl (free) and affect everyone with your Death Gas (free), Wild Shape into a Thought Slayer (free) and use your Mind-Consuming Gaze (free) and then Ethereal Jaunt (free). At the start of the next round move-action back to the material plane and repeat the entire process, taking the form of a different individual of each race so you won't have to wait 1d4 rounds to breathe again, etc. because you're not in the form of the same dragon as the last time. On your turn you obliterate everything, when it's not you turn you're ethereal and immune to almost everything in the game.

How in the heck does this work????

Os1ris09
2010-02-18, 01:12 AM
Bloodline by RAW don't cost levels to take their levels. Use them: feel the cheese!

I think it does because it requires you to take a lvl of Blood-line when you reach a certain Character Level.

Xenogears
2010-02-18, 01:26 AM
Maybe go Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) LA +1 (bought off) Master of Many Forms 10. Get a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp, +X Wild Mountain Plate, maybe a Cloak of Cha with a Wilding Clasp for DCs. Take Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, and Assume Supernatural Ability. You can Wild Shape at will as a free action, and remember that you heal as though you rested a night every time you wild shape, and also that you can take forms up to 21 HD.

Wild Shape into an Adult Shadow Dragon (free) and use your breath attack to deal 3 negative levels (standard), Wild Shape into a Beholder (free) and use all of your eye rays (free), Wild Shape into a Choker (free) and use your extra standard action to ready a Death Ray (standard), Wild Shape into a Catoblepas (free) and use your Death Ray (readied), Wild Shape into a Phiuhl (free) and affect everyone with your Death Gas (free), Wild Shape into a Thought Slayer (free) and use your Mind-Consuming Gaze (free) and then Ethereal Jaunt (free). At the start of the next round move-action back to the material plane and repeat the entire process, taking the form of a different individual of each race so you won't have to wait 1d4 rounds to breathe again, etc. because you're not in the form of the same dragon as the last time. On your turn you obliterate everything, when it's not you turn you're ethereal and immune to almost everything in the game.

1) According to the description of the template that that links to you need to either have the fiendish/celestial template or be an outsider. You are none of these as far as I can see.

2) It gives you a list of like 10 gods with accompanying lists of 1-2 or 3 animals for each god and says you can wildshape into these forms. So how are you wildshaping into a bunch of other forms not listed?

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-18, 01:54 AM
1) According to the description of the template that that links to you need to either have the fiendish/celestial template or be an outsider. You are none of these as far as I can see.

2) It gives you a list of like 10 gods with accompanying lists of 1-2 or 3 animals for each god and says you can wildshape into these forms. So how are you wildshaping into a bunch of other forms not listed?Master of Many Forms grants you additional shapeshifting types, sizes, and new abilities (such as (Su) and special qualities.

Xenogears
2010-02-18, 01:56 AM
Master of Many Forms grants you additional shapeshifting types, sizes, and new abilities (such as (Su) and special qualities.

I figured as much....

Just wanted to check. So any idea about the first comment?

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-18, 02:06 AM
You want cheese? Here's your cheese right here.

Complete Warrior Samurai 10. Grab the Fearful enchantment (Drow of the Underdark) and Imperious Command (same book). You now make all opponents within 30' cower as a move action. Sure, they've got a HD check, but considering you can boost up your DC's to well in the upper 30's, that's not really a significant problem.

Everything simply locks down and cowers in fear from your fearfulness. No weapons required. See the link in the quote in my sig for details

Edge
2010-02-18, 02:21 AM
I figured as much....

Just wanted to check. So any idea about the first comment?

Be a lesser Planetouched and take the Otherwordly feat (or a normal planetouched and avoid the feat at a cost of +1 LA). You're an Outsider. Done and done.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-18, 02:32 AM
Also, the Gatling Tripper:

Ranger1/PsiWar4/Fighter2/Slayer3

Grab the following feats:

Improved Trip
Shock Trooper (and prerequsites)
EWP: Spiked Chain
Leap Attack
Combat Reflexes + Karmic Strike (if you have enough feats available)

Grab the following Powers:

Psionic Lion's Pounce
Expansion

full Power Attack for +27 to damage is fun at level 10, but the other fun thing is that you are attacking with touch attacks (for the Improved Trip), and then getting free attacks on Prone individuals.

However, if you truly wish to abuse this:

PsiWar5/Warmind5

You'll need Great Cleave for this trick

Find a way to obtain a very large quantity of things with very low hit points. Rats in a Haversack work quite well.

Drop a rat at your opponents feet. Slay said rat. With Warmind 5, you get a free attack on your opponent. You also get a free attack from Great Cleave. You have as many attacks as you have rats. Have fun.

Pluto
2010-02-18, 02:42 AM
I always like Rapid Conjuration ACF Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Master of Shrouds X for low level builds.
At this level, a MoS would be able to summon 2 Spectres per round (each of which deals 2 negative levels with a touch attack starting on the round it is summoned).


Just wanted to check. So any idea about the first comment?
Neraphim's (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040613a&page=2) easy. I think the Planar Handbook has another Outsider race with +0 LA too.

Otherwise, since the build assumes LA buy-off anyway, Aasimar or Tiefling are gimmes.

faceroll
2010-02-18, 03:20 AM
By the way, the 3.5 Phaerimm only casts as a sorcerer of its hit dice (Player's Guide to Faerun), so no doubling up there.

What page is the Phaerimm on in PGtF? I can only find it in lost empires.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-18, 03:51 AM
1) According to the description of the template that that links to you need to either have the fiendish/celestial template or be an outsider. You are none of these as far as I can see.

Then go Wild Elf with Otherworldly and two flaws, works just as well. The part about "with the celestial or fiendish template" is something I've managed to overlook this whole time.

hamishspence
2010-02-18, 05:27 AM
PGtF web enhancement, to be precise- which updates all 3.0 Faerun monsters to 3.5, and converts the phaerimm from a monster with a standard statblock, to one with an aging-based statblock like that of a dragon.

Lost Empires basically reprints the web enhancement version- does it have any obvious differences?

sofawall
2010-02-18, 08:06 AM
By the way, the 3.5 Phaerimm only casts as a sorcerer of its hit dice (Player's Guide to Faerun), so no doubling up there.

Levels in Sorcerer conveniently give hit dice, you know.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-18, 08:31 AM
Levels in Sorcerer conveniently give hit dice, you know.

The assumption is that unless stated otherwise, a racial ability that runs off hit dice runs off Racial Hit Dice only, I believe.

Cyclocone
2010-02-18, 08:40 AM
The assumption is that unless stated otherwise, a racial ability that runs off hit dice runs off Racial Hit Dice only, I believe.

You make the Half-Fiend cry.

Gnaeus
2010-02-18, 08:59 AM
Then go Wild Elf with Otherworldly and two flaws, works just as well. The part about "with the celestial or fiendish template" is something I've managed to overlook this whole time.

Don't you need to have the required feats BEFORE you take the first level in a prestige class?

I think you would need:
Flaw: Otherworldly
Flaw: Alertness
Level 1 in any non PRC: Endurance
Level 2+ MoMF

Iku Rex
2010-02-18, 09:07 AM
Technically, anything that can "pseudo-wildshape" can take MoMF.Not so.


ghfjhgf

faceroll
2010-02-18, 11:45 AM
PGtF web enhancement, to be precise- which updates all 3.0 Faerun monsters to 3.5, and converts the phaerimm from a monster with a standard statblock, to one with an aging-based statblock like that of a dragon.

Lost Empires basically reprints the web enhancement version- does it have any obvious differences?


The assumption is that unless stated otherwise, a racial ability that runs off hit dice runs off Racial Hit Dice only, I believe.

Here's the relevant stat blocks from Lost Empires:
Spells: A phaerimm casts spells as a sorcerer (caster level equals phaerimm's character level). Phaerimm's use their sorcerer spells as if they were spell like abilities, so they require no verbal, somatic, or material components.

Phaerimm Characters
A phaerimm's favored class is sorcerer. Its sorcerer levels stack with its base spellcasting ability for the purpose of determining spells known, spells per day, and other effects dependent on caster level. [some stuff about familiars]

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-18, 03:16 PM
Don't you need to have the required feats BEFORE you take the first level in a prestige class?

I think you would need:
Flaw: Otherworldly
Flaw: Alertness
Level 1 in any non PRC: Endurance
Level 2+ MoMF

Not true, there is no set order in which you must select your race/feats/class at level 1. Whenever you gain a level (i.e. 2+) there is a set-in-stone order in which you must choose each of those (PHB page 58), but the section addressing character creation (PHB page 6) is not numbered, and does not suggest that the order in which the steps are given must be followed or even that it's anything more than a simplified guideline for new players. Certain things must be done in a specific order, such as you cannot spend your skill points until you've selected a class, and a feat with a skill rank requirement cannot be selected until after that. However, none of the 1st level feats in that build have any prerequisites other than race and region, all of which may be selected prior to choosing which class you take at 1st level.

Terrowin
2010-02-19, 01:34 PM
I like the looks of all these... having trouble trying to decide. anyway, i don't know how to buy off a LA. its not something i realized could be done. could somebody let me know the rules for that?

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-19, 01:39 PM
I like the looks of all these... having trouble trying to decide. anyway, i don't know how to buy off a LA. its not something i realized could be done. could somebody let me know the rules for that?Check the SRD (www.d20srd.org).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-02-19, 05:09 PM
A +1 LA costs 3,000 XP to buy off, which is done at ECL 4 (3 class levels, +1 LA). Your current XP at that time would be anywhere from 6,000-9,999, and would be reduced to anywhere from 3,000-6,999, which will typically reduce your ECL by 1, but you're losing the +1 LA so you'd be ECL 3 with your same 3 class levels. If everyone is starting "At ECL 10" rather than a set XP total, then someone who may have spent a bunch of XP on item creation and permanencies would still be starting at ECL 10, in which case you too should still be starting at ECL 10.

I'd figured it up quite a while back, continuing after that being one level behind the rest of the party the XP gap will decrease by about 25% per level gained, since you'd be gaining a little more XP per encounter. By the time everyone gained the next level you'd be only 2250 xp behind, when you hit level 5 and the party hit level 6 you'd be 1688 xp behind. The next level you'd be 1266 xp behind, when you hit level 7 and the party hit level 8 you'd be only 950 xp behind. The next level you'd be 713 xp behind, and by the time you'd be hitting level 9 and the rest of the party hit their current level of 10 you should only be 535 xp behind them. Note that you would still have ECL 10 starting money, as you've all adventured through just as many levels up to that point.

Terrowin
2010-02-24, 09:16 AM
just found out that he doesn't use the LA buy off option. don't know why.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-24, 09:38 AM
Here's the relevant stat blocks from Lost Empires:
Spells: A phaerimm casts spells as a sorcerer (caster level equals phaerimm's character level). Phaerimm's use their sorcerer spells as if they were spell like abilities, so they require no verbal, somatic, or material components.

Phaerimm Characters
A phaerimm's favored class is sorcerer. Its sorcerer levels stack with its base spellcasting ability for the purpose of determining spells known, spells per day, and other effects dependent on caster level. [some stuff about familiars]

Right. I'd thought that PGtF (in which it is off HD) was after LEoF. Looks like the borked one is the more recent and hence the one that counts. Whoopee.