[3.5] Giving a paladin useful skills!

[Mattarias, King.]

Hey playgrounders, me again, going on about my paladin. Quick question- Are there any ways to get new skills outside of feats like Able Learner? Specifically, I want to get jump, use rope, and climb in order to facilitate a mount-less charger build (Because flying kick-smites to the face are AWESOME) and get rid of silly things like ride, profession, and handle animal. Any suggestions?

Also, my character's in my sig, any suggestions or critiques are welcome.

[deuxhero]

You can trade a few skill out for others via the cityscape web enhancement (if anyone can give a link to it, don't have it off hand) such as ride for tumble. I'd ask the DM for a few other possible trades.

[Mattarias, King.]

You can trade a few skill out for others via the cityscape web enhancement (if anyone can give a link to it, don't have it off hand) such as ride for tumble. I'd ask the DM for a few other possible trades.

Oooh. I'll look for that, thanks. Tumble is good.

[deuxhero]

found it

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

Racial sub-levels also allow you to trade some class skills out for others (Orc Paladins I beleive can swap diplomacy for intimidate, not sure what book)

Oh Mystic Fire Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20051104a) adds spellcraft and know:(arcana). Know:Arcana is very neat and spell craft gets you into dead-god worshiper Ur-priest I guess (though Mystic Fire Knight requires Mystra as a deity, it doesn't say what of the two Mystras and lucky for you the first one is in fact a dead god... and that would be a pretty cool character concept).

[Darrin]

Hey playgrounders, me again, going on about my paladin. Quick question- Are there any ways to get new skills outside of feats like Able Learner? Specifically, I want to get jump, use rope, and climb in order to facilitate a mount-less charger build (Because flying kick-smites to the face are AWESOME) and get rid of silly things like ride, profession, and handle animal. Any suggestions?


Cityscape Web Enhancement, Urban Class Features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). Scroll down to Skilled City-Dweller, which will let you swap Handle Animal for Gather Information (meh) and Ride for Tumble (*DING*DING*DING*).

Check Crystalkeep's base classes for a list of variant Paladins, which all offer slightly different skill sets.

Using a variant or some Planar Paladin substitution levels (skip 4th, Turn Undead is too important, but 6th and 10th should be good) to get 8 ranks of Knowledge: the Planes. This allows you to take the Planar Touchstone feat, and linking to the Catalogues of Enlightenment lets you pick up a Domain power. Several cleric domains add class skills.

There are a variety of other feats that add class skills:

Skill Knowledge (Unearthed Arcana p. 81): Although it's part of a variant skill system, there's nothing in the text that mechanically can't work in the standard class skill system. Allows you to add two skills as class skills in your current class, or add one skill as always a class skill from that point forward.

Martial Study (Tome of Battle p. 31): Not only does it add a discipline's favored skill as a class skill, but gives you an interesting combat maneuver. You can pick up the following skills with this feat: Tumble, Intimidate, Balance, Concentration, Sense Motive, Hide, Jump, or Diplomacy.

Criminal Background (City of Stormreach p. 95): Just recently discovered this one. Can only be taken at 1st level, but adds Bluff, Open Lock, and Sleight of Hand as class skills. This would definitely be an interesting feat on a Paladin.

[Mattarias, King.]

O.o Yowza. Thanks guys. I'll ask my DM about these. Unfortunately nothing about climb that I saw, but I'll take what I can get. Thank you!

[Darrin]

O.o Yowza. Thanks guys. I'll ask my DM about these. Unfortunately nothing about climb that I saw, but I'll take what I can get. Thank you!

Hmm... Anti-Paladin (Dragon #312) gets Climb and Jump, but other than that... I couldn't find anything. Not even Dragontouched + Draconic Heritage.

[deuxhero]

I assume the climb ranks are to qualify for something? Because Climb is kinda... eh (soon as you can spiderclimb/fly it's done, Warlock can do the frist at ECL1).

[Mattarias, King.]

I assume the climb ranks are to qualify for something? Because Climb is kinda... eh (soon as you can spiderclimb/fly it's done, Warlock can do the frist at ECL1).

Naah, It's a fluff thing. My character REALLY likes climbing stuff. And he thinks using magic is kinda silly, so none of that for him (I'm trying to convince my DM to let me trade in magic for fighter feats..)

Also, thanks Darrin, but that's kinda unfortunate. :\ I wanna be a warrior of justice, not anti-justice. Dang. Oh well.

[Eldariel]

I'm trying to convince my DM to let me trade in magic for fighter feats..)

There's a printed ACF for this in Complete Champion: Holy Warrior.

[AslanCross]

Just wanted to make sure: Are you taking the Charging Smite ACF from PHB2? You sacrifice your holy mount feature to get the ability to deal double damage on charging smites.

[Person_Man]

Jump is a great Skill, as you can use it to bypass difficult terrain. But Use Rope and Climb will rarely be used. It's a nifty idea to Climb up somewhere, secure a grappling hook, and then swing into an enemy. But how long will that take? 2, 3, or even 4 rounds? Are you going to waste 2+ attacks during combat to move into position? Or are you going to somehow set up an ambush standing just above your enemy without ranks in Hide or Move Silently? How are you supposed to pull it off when in a dungeon or other indoor locations? And once it does occur, what have you gained? It would just be a normal attack from higher ground (+1 to hit), and maybe a circumstance bonus if your DM likes you.

I'd also add that if you plan to go Paladin 5+, then your Special Mount is your most powerful class feature, and that mounted combat in general is very potent at low levels. (Also note that a mounted build doesn't need to invest in Jump to bypass difficult terrain if your mount has ranks in it). So giving up Ride and Handle Animal is a bad idea unless you're going Paladin 4/Whatever X.

Having said that, I think it's a fun idea, and when I DM I try to encourage such things. You might want to take a look at the Skill Tricks in Complete Scoundrel, and talk to your DM about homebrew rules for those Skills so you can accomplish what you want.


RE: Your build

Why would a Paladin take Improved Unarmed Strike? Spiked gauntlets and/or armor spikes work just as well for smacking people, and you can pick up the feat for free with a Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic pg 101) in a couple of levels in case you need/want it for something else.

Unless you need it as a pre-req for another feat, there's no reason to take Power Attack at level 1. It's really not efficient until 6th level.

Why are you using a longsword two handed, when you could be using it with a shield (sacrificing one point of damage for 2 points of AC) or when you could be using a weapon with reach or better damage? Also, it's very important to carry a couple backup weapons. Consider getting a net, spear, armor spikes, a reach weapon, and a greatsword.

Note that with Int 11 you don't qualify for Combat Expertise->Imp Trip. Similarly, with Dex 13 you won't be able to pull off any attack of opportunity build. Not that you need or even want to do either, it's just worth mentioning.

Feats you might want to consider: Martial Study -> Stone Power and/or Martial Stance, Bind Vestige, Aberration Blood -> Inhuman Reach and/or Deepspawn and/or Star Spawn, Battle Jump, and Touch of Golden Ice.

[Telonius]

Alternate options:

Rogue1/PaladinX.
Ranger1/PaladinX

[Mattarias, King.]

:smallbiggrin: Thanks for the input guys. I AM indeed taking the charging smite variant from the PHB2, and IUS and Power Attack are being taken as prereqs to Flying Kick. I plan on taking levels in monk later with Ascetic Knight, in order to be better at fighting unarmed, and smiting things on an unarmed flying kick charge power attack. Sound okay? An extra d12 alone is really good at low levels, I'm thinking.

Edit: I also want to get abilities that counteract or give bonuses against fear, if possible. I was thinking some bard for Inspire courage, or something. DM says it's going to be a very grimdark campaign, which it has been so far, and I don't doubt there's going to be a lot of fear effects thrown at our two/three person party.

Also, there's tons of mountains in the game that we're definitely going to need to climb, and I don't like the idea of falling to my death because a kobold hit me with a rock. Not very heroic, usually.