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View Full Version : [3.5] Am I missing something, or does this spell do nothing?



deuxhero
2010-02-17, 12:29 AM
Elf Disguise (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040818a). Is it just me, or is this spell worth less than the goggles?

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-17, 12:40 AM
Elf Disguise (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040818a). Is it just me, or is this spell worth less than the goggles?

It's about as useful as being able to change skin color. The fact that they think the is equal to a 1st level spell is beyond me. Changelings, at the very least, get a +10 bonus for that same effect!

The Demented One
2010-02-17, 12:40 AM
Elf Disguise (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040818a). Is it just me, or is this spell worth less than the goggles?
It has a duration in hours/level, rather than Disguise Self's 10 min/level. And in exchange it's...cripplingly overspecialized. lol.

ForzaFiori
2010-02-17, 12:41 AM
It's only use is pretty much given in the description. Drow use it to disguise theirself as surface elves. Since they have elf like structure (being elves) with the skin, hair, and eye color changes, they look like a surface elf.

deuxhero
2010-02-17, 12:43 AM
but at the point you could keep it up for 24 hours (ECL 4 for a sorc, ECL 7 for a wiz. take some from bonus slots for high ability scores) you can afford a hat of disquise and not blow all your spell slots.

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-17, 12:55 AM
but at the point you could keep it up for 24 hours (ECL 4 for a sorc, ECL 7 for a wiz. take some from bonus slots for high ability scores) you can afford a hat of disquise and not blow all your spell slots.

And get an actual bonus!

peacenlove
2010-02-17, 12:59 AM
It would work better as a cantrip. Too specialized and ineffective for a first level spell.

ericgrau
2010-02-17, 01:36 AM
But with things like disguises, unlike most other spells, is that you usually know ahead of time that you'll need it. At least within the spell's duration. Thus it's one major disadvantage is negated. Otherwise, you simply prepare something else. So, ya, get it if you'll need it, don't if you won't. Simple.

Oh, and a bunch of 25 gp scrolls of elf disguise is cheaper than a hat of disguide if it comes down to money, unless you plan on spending weeks in the disguise. The hat of disguise does not become affordable until at least level 6 or 7, maybe 8-9 since it's only a utility item.

Studoku
2010-02-17, 01:51 AM
This spell amuses me.

Mainly because while copying out the entire beguiler spell list, I accidentally gave my character a spell named Disguise Elf. Which was, coincidentally, used to disguise his elven nature.

EDIT: Actually, this spell would have been pretty useful.

Thrawn183
2010-02-17, 01:54 AM
What gets me is, without giving a bonus to the skill check, how is this any different than just making a normal disguise check? Isn't this just a waste of a spell?

absolmorph
2010-02-17, 01:56 AM
It has a duration in hours/level, rather than Disguise Self's 10 min/level. And in exchange it's...cripplingly overspecialized. lol.
And gives no bonus to anything, RAW.
Except you have a magical effect around you, so anyone using Detect Magic will notice that.

Temotei
2010-02-17, 02:01 AM
Clerics get it, if that's any consolation for the waste of a spell slot.

Then again, the trickery domain gives disguise self...but if you don't have that, then this spell is available. :smallsigh:

RS14
2010-02-17, 02:27 AM
And gives no bonus to anything, RAW.
Except you have a magical effect around you, so anyone using Detect Magic will notice that.

Disguise:
"Magic that alters your form, such as alter self, disguise self, polymorph, or shapechange, grants you a +10 bonus on Disguise checks (see the individual spell descriptions). "

Also "This spell works much like disguise self, except..."

Tyndmyr
2010-02-17, 07:22 AM
Technically useful, but practically...not much.

It's sort of like the spell Detect Undead. It's just too specific, especially considering that most undead are blatantly obvious anyhow.

TheCountAlucard
2010-02-17, 07:23 AM
It would work better as a cantrip. Too specialized and ineffective for a first level spell.It is a cantrip; it's called prestidigitation. :smallamused:


It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round.Might take a little longer to apply the disguise, but it does pretty much the same thing.

Oslecamo
2010-02-17, 07:29 AM
Might take a little longer to apply the disguise, but it does pretty much the same thing.

Your skin/character is not an item. By that logic, you could kill things with prestidigiation by "cleaning" them of their vital organs.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-17, 07:33 AM
It is a cantrip; it's called prestidigitation. :smallamused:

Might take a little longer to apply the disguise, but it does pretty much the same thing.

Well, except that prestidigitation specifically forbids you from using it to replace another spell.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-17, 07:33 AM
Well, except that prestidigitation specifically forbids you from using it to replace another spell.

What other spell?

Tyndmyr
2010-02-17, 07:37 AM
What other spell?

Any.

SRD: Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects.

BobVosh
2010-02-17, 07:40 AM
What other spell?

Elf Disguise. Disguise self. Your choice I guess.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-17, 07:44 AM
Elf Disguise. Disguise self. Your choice I guess.

I know nothing of this spell, there for it doesn't exist. Now, proceed to color yourself as you see fit with prestidigitation. Might I recommend turquoise? Pass yourself off as a rare silvervain Mountain elf. only six known to exist.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-17, 07:45 AM
Uh, ignoring a rule is not the same as following the rules.

Indon
2010-02-17, 08:33 AM
Uh, ignoring a rule is not the same as following the rules.

It's all about if the DM is aware of it, really.

That said, you would use Disguise Self or Alter Self or a core illusion spell to make yourself turquoise anyway, so you still couldn't really prestidigitate yourself.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-17, 08:35 AM
It's all about if the DM is aware of it, really.

Right, but doing something you know isn't strictly legal just because the DM isn't aware of the illegality is...not exactly on firm grounds.

Zeta Kai
2010-02-17, 08:45 AM
Yeah, both elf disguise & Vhaeraun's nightshield are made of suck. That page isn't very useful. Flavorful, but not useful. It does have soul charge, though, which is a great low-level necromancy spell.


Your skin/character is not an item. By that logic, you could kill things with prestidigiation by "cleaning" them of their vital organs.

That's the best use of the presto that I've ever seen. Kudos.

Debihuman
2010-02-17, 09:57 AM
It's one of those niche spells--not at all useful unless you are playing a drow character. However, if you do fall in the right niche, it can be very useful. This is the kind of spell that a DM loves more than a player loves. It is useful on NPCs who masquerade as normal elves. A drow scouting party sent to the surface as spies for a few hours of reconnaissance can be interesting. Of course it doesn't solve all the problems of being a drow but it mitigates it. And if nothing else, it's a spell that you can use in dealing with drow--let them get a hold of it and see what happens.

Not all spells are created equal. Some will be more useful than others based on the kind of game you play in. If you tend to favor more combat and less espionage, this spell won't be as interesting or useful.

Debby

Ravens_cry
2010-02-17, 10:28 AM
On the other hand, Soul Charge looks like fun. Vile, soul stealing evil, necromantic, fun.

Indon
2010-02-17, 11:15 AM
Right, but doing something you know isn't strictly legal just because the DM isn't aware of the illegality is...not exactly on firm grounds.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the DM using that source material or not in the campaign.

Uses of prestidigitation do not become invalid for everyone because some obscure spell gets written down somewhere.

Optimystik
2010-02-17, 11:17 AM
Changing a character's whole appearance with Prestidigitation seems a bit beyond the scope of a cantrip to me.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-17, 11:21 AM
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the DM using that source material or not in the campaign.

Uses of prestidigitation do not become invalid for everyone because some obscure spell gets written down somewhere.

Well, disguise self is core...so I don't see this being an issue.

Ravens_cry
2010-02-17, 11:23 AM
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the DM using that source material or not in the campaign.

Uses of prestidigitation do not become invalid for everyone because some obscure spell gets written down somewhere.
If the super obscure spell is allowed in the campaign, yes it does. Unless your changing prestidigitation as well, particularly the line saying it ' lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Prestidigitation.htm)'.

hamishspence
2010-02-17, 11:31 AM
Your skin/character is not an item. By that logic, you could kill things with prestidigiation by "cleaning" them of their vital organs.

Isn't prestidigitation commonly used to clean the self?

So couldn't it be used to "soil" the self?- you get a big bag of black dust, cast prestidigitation, then wear the dust.

It wouldn't duplicate disguise self, but it might do something like, grant a +2 on all Disguise checks to pass as a drow, if elven.

Greenish
2010-02-17, 12:26 PM
Isn't prestidigitation commonly used to clean the self?

So couldn't it be used to "soil" the self?- you get a big bag of black dust, cast prestidigitation, then wear the dust.

It wouldn't duplicate disguise self, but it might do something like, grant a +2 on all Disguise checks to pass as a drow, if elven.Why would you need a spell to soil yourself? :smallbiggrin:

Anyhow, Disguise Kit is a mundane item that gives +2 on Disguise checks. You shouldn't be able to just rub dirt on yourself for the same effect.

absolmorph
2010-02-17, 12:31 PM
Why would you need a spell to soil yourself? :smallbiggrin:

Anyhow, Disguise Kit is a mundane item that gives +2 on Disguise checks. You shouldn't be able to just rub dirt on yourself for the same effect.
Ah, but he's not simply rubbing dirt on himself: he's magically rubbing dirt on himself.

Optimystik
2010-02-17, 12:32 PM
Why would you need a spell to soil yourself? :smallbiggrin:

Agreed, all you need for that is a Balor.

Greenish
2010-02-17, 01:08 PM
Ah, but he's not simply rubbing dirt on himself: he's magically rubbing dirt on himself.Of course, silly me.

Sophismata
2010-02-17, 10:21 PM
Um... you get a bonus, as per Disguise Self, as long as you're an elf.