3.5 How to decide who the monster will hit.

[Laharal]

Hello everyone,

I've been preping both a campaign and a pc of mine for 3.5 and I sometimes ask myself questions concerning details that I never cared or was not made aware of.

One of these question is: how do you decide who the monster will hit? I re-browsed through DMG and found nothing.. maybe I'm just not looking at the right place.
Do you always hit the closest target?
The one that did the most damage to the monster up to now?
You roll a dice (1-2 Steve, 3-4 Bob, 5-6 Lydia)
Or have you found a peculiar way of managing aggro? Lol
Many thanks

[Greenish]

Biggest threat or easiest target, depending on the monster and situation.

[Kantolin]

Depends on the group and optimization level, IMHO.

Some people want incredibly vicious/realistic gameplay. In which animal-intelligence creatures should go for the smallest target (And run when in danger), and intelligent enemies should go for whomever looks like a wizard then cleric (possibly in reverse order). Demons/devils and the like will probably attempt to start with paladin or good clerics. In all cases, whomever's most threatening becomes the new target if the creature is intelligent.

But for other groups, particularly low-optimization groups with fighters or dwarven defenders in them, I say have most things rush whomever's closest. Helps the feel of 'wizards, stand in the back'.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

for me, i normally just try to think of which the monster would go for, given there mental scores and other variables. for dumber monsters, it's normally just the nearest one, who it concieves as a threat, or who looks tastier. smarter monsters will try to make tactical use of thier abilities (if they have them) and otherwise act like characters

[Tiki Snakes]

Hello everyone,

I've been preping both a campaign and a pc of mine for 3.5 and I sometimes ask myself questions concerning details that I never cared or was not made aware of.

One of these question is: how do you decide who the monster will hit? I re-browsed through DMG and found nothing.. maybe I'm just not looking at the right place.
Do you always hit the closest target?
The one that did the most damage to the monster up to now?
You roll a dice (1-2 Steve, 3-4 Bob, 5-6 Lydia)
Or have you found a peculiar way of managing aggro? Lol
Many thanks

Any and all of the above. Depending on how smart and how tactical they should be, and how specific their role in combat is supposed to be, the decisions would be more or less in depth.

[Saph]

Typically a combination of "biggest threat", "easiest target" and "whoever's convenient".

Smarter enemies go for the biggest threat, predatory enemies go for the easiest target, dumber enemies go for whoever's convenient . . . but all three play a role.

If I can't immediately decide, I tell the players "Okay, 1-2 it attacks Bob, 3-4 it attacks Charlie, 5-6 it attacks Alice" then roll the die out in the open. Really makes the players pay attention.

[Lin Bayaseda]

For dumb monsters:
- Whoever most recently damaged me
- Whoever's the closest
- Whoever looks squishy (not wearing metal armor)

For intelligent monsters:
- Whoever constitutes the bigger threat
- Whoever's most susceptible to my form of attack (poison the wizard, charm the fighter)

[Tyger]

This is always a tough question, and the answer really depends on the specific circumstances.

A) How intelligent is the monster? Highly intelligent monsters will take out the target that is the greatest threat first. That assumes of course, they have a reason to believe PC A is the greatest threat. And a wonderful reason for wizards to use a Hat of Disguise to appear to be wearing plate armor. :)

B) Is the monster under any magical or other compulsions? If the monster is compelled to "Attack any creature that comes through that door until they die" then the first PC to walk in is the sole target the monster can have, until they kill him, then move on to whoever walked through second. Ditto mindless creatures, like some undead and constructs. They follow their orders to the letter, without questioning them or using better tactics.

C) Is the monster an animal? Animals generally are smart enough to adapt their tactics within reason. The wolf may realize that the guy who hit it with the big axe hurt it more than the little fellow with the dagger, and target the barbarian first. But they aren't smart enough to realize that the fireball that burned them came from the funny smelling girl in the back of the group in the odd coloured robes.

D) Are you willing to take out PCs? If yes, then the above suggestions guide your tactics all the time. If not, then you probably "randomly" assign targets in an effort to keep party members alive longer. Personally, I think the imminent threat of death is an important factor, and try to play the monsters as well as the players play their characters - based upon the above criteria. But some DMs (and I used to be one of these) track the PCs hit points specifically so they know who to target to avoid taking anyone out prematurely... that's a DMing style choice more than anything else.

E) What do the monsters know about the party? If the creatures have fought the party before, and have some decent intelligence, they will target more carefully, picking their ambush site, choosing to take out the greatest threat first. If they are just encountering the party for the first time though, they may not have much idea what the party can do. This ties in very closely with (A) though. A lich may never have met the party before, but he's smart enough to know that the guy in the suit of adamantium full plate, charging with the greatsword over his head is likely not as big a threat as the robed figure flying up into the air behind said warrior. He likely also knows that the halfling with the symbol of god X worn prominently on her chest may well be a cleric and thus a potential problem...

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: Wow, six sneaky ninjas... that's a record for me!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The most obvious choice for anything is whoever is closest to it, which is an easy method to fall back on.

Nonintelligent opponents such as mindless undead, oozes, etc. will just attack whoever is closest to it, every time.

Predatory opponents will go for an easy target, animals and other low-intelligence creatures who want to eat the PCs will probably target the physically smallest and/or furthest from the rest of the group. If it has Improved Grab it will probably rush in and get its initial attacks, and then try a grab-and-run tactic the following round if outnumbered. These creatures only want to get a meal, not wipe out the entire herd, so if anyone is two or more size categories smaller than they are they'll be easier to carry away.

Strong yet not very smart opponents will recognize the physically strong PCs and perceive them as the greatest threat. The biggest one, the one with the biggest weapon, the one in the shiniest/spikiest armor, etc. will probably be their first target. They'll figure that once they take him out the others will be easy enough to muscle around.

Smart opponents, typically those with special abilities, will be aware that PCs may have special abilities as well. They'll try to use their abilities to split up and confuse the group initially, using Fort save abilities against unarmored or lightly armored foes and Will save abilities against heavily armored foes. If they have ranks in Spellcraft or Kn: Arcana or Religion they'll recognize holy symbols/divine foci, spell component pouches, etc. and pick their targets accordingly. Anything that can crowd control or divide a group should be used first, such as cloud effects, walls, Web, Black Tentacles, Confusion, etc., or a Charm effect if they have one so it's more likely to work. Once that's been done they'll probably use a strong single-target effect such as Hold, Blind, Dominate, etc. choosing targets based on appearance and the type of save. Once they're a few rounds into the fight they'll probably be able to pick out a greatest threat target to focus on, and pick off their opponents one at a time. Greatest threat targets could be anyone Dispelling one of their effects, someone dealing a lot of damage, someone using their own crowd control effects, or lacking any of those someone who presents himself as an easy/obvious target. If the monster uses physical attacks to deal damage, they'll probably attack someone who's not wearing much armor.

That's a bit more in-depth than I'd intended, but that's basically how it goes.

[Oslecamo]

If I can't immediately decide, I tell the players "Okay, 1-2 it attacks Bob, 3-4 it attacks Charlie, 5-6 it attacks Alice" then roll the die out in the open. Really makes the players pay attention.

This is quite usefull. Altough some times you've got a smart monster who'll aim for the squishy caster or a dumb monster who'll charge whoever's more nearby, other times all the party seem at the same distance of the monster and there's no evidence that one is stronger/weaker than the other. So just let the dices decide who gets whacked!

As a side note, monsters never atack characters bleeding to death unless there's really nothing more to do. As the tradition commands, fallen heros are assumed to be dead by the villain, and thus ignored, so they may be rescued by their allies and fight another day!:smalltongue:

[Saph]

As a side note, monsters never atack characters bleeding to death unless there's really nothing more to do. As the tradition commands, fallen heros are assumed to be dead by the villain, and thus ignored, so they may be rescued by their allies and fight another day!:smalltongue:

Well, yeah. After all, the players forget about monsters as soon as they drop, so I have the monsters do the same. :)

[valadil]

Depends on the monster.

Dumb - closest.
Mean - squishiest.
Angry - whomever hurt this monster the most.
Intelligent - biggest threat that can be neutralized this turn.

Of course, getting a full attack action or convenient AoE can trump any of those.

[Raum]

One of these question is: how do you decide who the monster will hit? Depends on the situation and the monster. Intelligent monsters will / should use tactics. Particularly any which will target a PC's weaknesses or limitations while emphasizing their own strengths. (A dragon and strafing runs is one example.)


Do you always hit the closest target?Only if the monster doesn't have a way (or is too unintelligent) to discern between threats and easy targets.

The one that did the most damage to the monster up to now?This is common, particularly for less intelligent monsters.

You roll a dice (1-2 Steve, 3-4 Bob, 5-6 Lydia)This works to choose between equivalent threats.

Or have you found a peculiar way of managing aggro? Lol
Many thanksSome classes have abilities which do allow for 'managing aggro' as you put it. The Knight comes to mind...

[lsfreak]

'Managing aggro' basically comes down to 'making yourself such a big threat that no one would leave you alone.' This basically forces the monsters to choose between taking out the ubercharger before they get 1-shot, or the wizard before they get 1-shot, at which point it becomes 'go after the easier target.'

For dumber creatures I go for size first (ignore the little guys while they take out the big ones). If one of the little guys proves annoying (usually through lots of damage), they switch. Dumb but not mindless creatures will also be able to pick out targets that are hard to hit, be it high AC or just bad luck, and switch targets.

Intelligent targets, you target the one who looks like the biggest threat. If he's wearing robes, he's the first to get targeted. But sometimes there's on-the-fly changes, like someone trying to target the wizard but a guy with a spiked chain in the way. Alternatively, if they think they have the power, take out the weaker guys in the opening round to eliminate flanking, guys reading scrolls of solid fog, and so on.

The other thing about intelligent monsters and NPC's is that they may not, and often won't, fight when they don't have the advantage. Maybe they're vain and think they can take on the 4 PC's by themselves, but that's an exception to the rule. In general, anyone outnumbered will be thinking first of ways of escaping or changing the odds, rather than who to target first.

[randomhero00]

general:

over 9 int? attack weakest party member/biggest threat (unless too well protected, like would have to take AoO)

Under 9 int? Attack closest unless they aren't doing anything threatening

pack behavior/non sentient (like wolves) single out closest/last person to hit them and swarm (but can't predict AoO)

anything with anger issues- who is pissing him off the most?

Unsure? assign numbers to party members, roll dice

intelligent caster type? Then target would depend on spell being used

Really anything intelligent is easy, because you can just play them to the best of your ability. If their int is below an 8 or a 9 then you have to start to think about what their instincts would be like. Since most things are predators that means they'll go for the weak/frail looking members until another member (hopefully the tank) gives them a reason not to. But even animals aren't stupid, if they can't hit the tank at all, and the rogue is tearing them up then their gonna turn around and whip on the rogue.

[AslanCross]

It depends. Unintelligent monsters will attack the closest target. Trained soldiers or casters who are aware of the PCs' capabilities will go for the spellcasters; I did this to devastating effect in my Red Hand of Doom campaign (see the link in my sig).

The PCs were ambushed. The primary tank was charmed; the other frontliner was too far ahead. The casters stayed in the rear and then got surrounded by enlarged Blackspawn Raiders. The cleric got taken down to the negatives and the psion was slowly being strangled by one of the blackspawn.

It might also depend on why the monsters are attacking. If they're only harrassing the PCs, they might attack as many as they can and then escape.

If they're predators, they will try to stalk the perceived weakest one (usually the smallest) until someone begins hurting them. The monster will then either run away from the source of pain or attack it in self defense.

If it's an ambush by intelligent creatures who have good intel on the PCs, they will go for the highest threat---typically the casters.

Sometimes, the monsters may not like something that the PCs have. The Monster Manual says Bulletes don't eat elves and avoid dwarves, so they'd go for humans or halflings. Given the choice, they'd probably go for the smaller target.

[Kurald Galain]

I used a very nasty cursed item once... while you carry it, whenever a monster would make an arbitrary decision about whom to attack, it would instead simply attack you.

Tag, you're it.

[BRC]

Depends on the nature of the monster in question.

Low-int bruisers tend to go for the closest foe unless somebody else pisses them off. Smarter enemies may identify spellcasters and target them specifically.

I remember I once sent my PC's (This was the final adventure of a campaign) up against a large group of Witchhunters (Rangers) who were hiding behind barricades with ranged weapons (Some were on the rooftops). One of the PC's (A wizard with no protective spells up) Fireballed one of the barricades, taking out some of the witchhunters. The rest all target him with Rapid Shot, recognizing him as the largest threat (his Fireball took down almost all the guys who got hit with it).

[AslanCross]

Intelligent monsters intending to demoralize the PCs may also choose to attack any NPC cohorts of the PCs in the battle. In my RHOD campaign, I had Wyrmlord Kharn take down the captain of the city guard before he started wailing on the PCs.

[deuxhero]

I used a very nasty cursed item once... while you carry it, whenever a monster would make an arbitrary decision about whom to attack, it would instead simply attack you.

Tag, you're it.

Nasty? Cursed? Isn't that something a dwarf defender would pay top jink for?

[Kurald Galain]

Nasty? Cursed? Isn't that something a dwarf defender would pay top jink for?
...probably, although it would also cause him to be targeted more often by arrows, fireballs, and mind control.

Nevertheless, if players find a clever use for an ostensibly-cursed item, I'm all for it. Note that I don't usually have Magic Marts in my campaign worlds, so the dwarf would have to find it somehow.

[agumathebear]

i use the d6 for warhammer, the one with the arrows...that is if the party is doing equal damage (which it usually is because everyone's a tank), and i determine it from the direction of the mini representing the monster and the mini representing the player. of course, spin the bottle would work just as well lol!

[Amphetryon]

IMC, dumb monsters hit the one that a) damaged them the most b) is closest c) isn't in a tin can that hurts their teeth, roughly in that order.

Smart monsters isolate the ones without armor or with holy symbols in evidence and gang up on them before attacking those in armor without holy symbols.

[Knaight]

One thing I've seen ignored here. If a monster has a personal connection to any characters that will influence their decision. Their goal might just be to kill one particular party member, and get away. It might even have that second part optional. Another monster might have a particular party member they don't want to kill and only want to capture. Particularly in the case of intelligent enemies seen beforehand. Furthermore moves might be made for a strategic situation at the detriment of the tactical one. If killing the cleric prevents recouping in further fights, or killing the wizard prevents quick movement later, a team might go for them even if it will probably get them all killed.

[ericgrau]

Monsters should always use good strategy, just like the PCs. It destroys verisimilitude otherwise and turns the game into an MMO. Hit the weakest and/or biggest threat, gang up on one PC if possible, run away if in trouble, etc.

[BRC]

Monsters should always use good strategy, just like the PCs. It destroys verisimilitude otherwise and turns the game into an MMO. Hit the weakest and/or biggest threat, gang up on one PC if possible, run away if in trouble, etc.

Well that depends on the type of monster.
Zombies or other mindless things will just shamble forward towards the closest foe. A horde of Orcs may go after the physically strongest opponent in order to prove themselves. A team of experienced mercenaries may isolate the Cleric and keep the fighter busy while they focus on taking down the wizard as quickly as possible.

[ericgrau]

Correction then, monsters should always use a strategy. What that is varies, but the main point is to hold on to verisimilitude and for the DM to put himself into the monster's shoes. Even the zombie shambling mindlessly towards the nearest PC is an important strategy, as it opens up options for the PCs for tricky plans against what might otherwise be formidable foes. Mass zombie campaigns are awesome, btw.

[Emmerask]

Always the players character that annoys you the most at that time :smallbiggrin:

[waterpenguin43]

It depends on the monster, for instance, animals, beasts etc. with less then 3 Intelligence will either attack the smallest target (In an offensive position), or anyone cornering it (In a Defensive.)

Abberations (usually) feel a natural instinct to attack clerics or anyone with a divine connection, one exception is mind flayers, which attack the greatest threat.

Non-intelligent Plants and Constructs will usually just attack the closest character.

Good Fey will likely attack anyone with connections to the unnatural (Like necromancers and evil clerics)

Evil Fey will attack those who give off the most of an "urban" feel, like rogues.

Demons, The less intelligent Devils and Daemons, and Undead will attack those with connections to the power of good, like paladins and clerics.

If they hav a high intelligence score, they will go for the biggest threat first, even if the monster in question falls into another category (For instance aboleths, who, while harboring a special hatred for divine spellcasting, are intelligent enough to attack the biggest threat first.)

[katerox]

The way my DM does it is he makes all the charecters roll a d20 and the person with the highest gets the attack on them...u always wanna pick ur sucky d20 when he asks all the players to roll haha

[agumathebear]

when i play, usually if you kill the biggest one first the rest roll for intimidation cheack, if they fail, and they usually do, they basically piss themselves and run. that is unless they are smart, like evil necromancers or clerics and such...but for the most part my party mostly fights orcs and ogres and such.

[Thurbane]

As noted by others, it really depends on the INT of the monster.

Low INT monsters will likely decide a target based on:

Proximity - who's within reach etc.
Obvious defences (armor, Fire Shield etc.)
Apparent threat level (hulking half-orc with greataxe compared to halfling with a dagger)
Who has most recently dealt damage to the monster
Who has dealt the most damage to the monster


...higher INT monsters will likely make the same decisions that PCs would.

[holywhippet]

Keep personalities and racial enemies in mind. For example, the entry for kobolds says they will focus on gnomes on sight given equal numbers. Kobolds are also cowardly so they are less likely to focus on the big, tough fighter in plate mail and more likely for focus on the weaker looking mage or rogue.

An orc barbarian on the other hand is more likely to focus on anyone who looks like a decent challenge.

[Mike_G]

All monsters always attack my unassuming, nonthreatening, nigh invisible Rogue, who is furthest away from them and looks like the least threatening, and can't even be seen without a huge Spot DC, which they bother to try to make even though they are locked in the midst of deadly combat, all the time, ignoring the Wizards who unleash hellish energies, the big guys with shiny, stabby, hurty swords and the hideous summoned creatures.

Unless they all target the Healer.

But at least I'm not bitter about it.

[Ashiel]

All monsters always attack my unassuming, nonthreatening, nigh invisible Rogue, who is furthest away from them and looks like the least threatening, and can't even be seen without a huge Spot DC, which they bother to try to make even though they are locked in the midst of deadly combat, all the time, ignoring the Wizards who unleash hellish energies, the big guys with shiny, stabby, hurty swords and the hideous summoned creatures.

Unless they all target the Healer.

But at least I'm not bitter about it.

Aww you poor thing! *HUGS*

You should play in one of my games sometime. You wouldn't have to worry about silly stuff like that. :smallsmile:

[Vampire D]

Aww you poor thing! *HUGS*

You should play in one of my games sometime. You wouldn't have to worry about silly stuff like that. :smallsmile:

What he means by this is that if you were in one of his games you would not be sought out, but you would soon have a reason to show your self to defend your party.lol
Thankfully Ashiel is a very merciful DM when it comes to letting his player play their character how they are supposed to me played.

[KillianHawkeye]

As a side note, monsters never atack characters bleeding to death unless there's really nothing more to do. As the tradition commands, fallen heros are assumed to be dead by the villain, and thus ignored, so they may be rescued by their allies and fight another day!:smalltongue:

Unless they're eeeeeeeevil. :smallwink:

BBEGs and MBEGs who have enough minions, defenses, or hps on hand might take a round to ruin someone's day.

[Thurbane]

Unless they're eeeeeeeevil. :smallwink:

BBEGs and MBEGs who have enough minions, defenses, or hps on hand might take a round to ruin someone's day.
Two words: Death Knell! :smallbiggrin:

[CockroachTeaParty]

Here's a question (a PC's life may depend on it!).

Let's say a group of adventurers is fighting a big, angry earth elemental with an INT of 4. It was summoned to a room, its only orders to kill any non-dwarves or non-binders it finds.

Two players go before it in the initiative order. One of them damages it with a magic missile. However, in the previous turn, it pummeled a closer PC for a massive amount of damage.

So... should it continue to attack the PC it hit last round? That PC has done damage to it previously, and it would make sense for it to finish him off. However, he was damaged more recently by the magic missile-slinging character (for roughly the same amount as the injured PC the previous round).

I guess, how stupid is INT 4? Would it continue to wail on one target until it is dead? Would it strike the last person to deal it damage? Said PC is quite likely to perish should it hit him again, and that would suck... But I also don't want to be unrealistic, here...

[lsfreak]

He'll keep pummeling the close guy, unless maybe the wizard is also in melee range. If he's pissed enough, going high with power attack (and also for the metagame, if the fighter will likely die anywho, power attacking makes it less likely for the attacks to hit in the first place). As soon as the melee guy goes down, even if not dead, he will go after the caster.

Kind of depends on time difference between the melee attack and the magic missile. Are we talking they both happened the same round, just the magic missile guy was lower in initiative, or fighter's spent the last 30 seconds trying to get the hell away and the wizard's been shooting in the meantime? In that case, give up on the fighter and chase the wizard.

[PhoenixRivers]

I will typically also have animal intelligence creatures shy away from fire users.

For those less intelligent creatures, I often also have them attack someone who recently hurt them fairly solidly.

The goal for it is to make it believable.

Pack hunters? Attempt to harass and seperate individuals, then mob them.
Big beefies? Attempt to scatter group with sweeping tactics, then swing on exposed targets.

Remember: One thing that adds realism, especially for the less disciplined enemies: If their group gets beat on too much, start thinking about morale. Would they run?


Here's a question (a PC's life may depend on it!).

Let's say a group of adventurers is fighting a big, angry earth elemental with an INT of 4. It was summoned to a room, its only orders to kill any non-dwarves or non-binders it finds.

Two players go before it in the initiative order. One of them damages it with a magic missile. However, in the previous turn, it pummeled a closer PC for a massive amount of damage.

So... should it continue to attack the PC it hit last round? That PC has done damage to it previously, and it would make sense for it to finish him off. However, he was damaged more recently by the magic missile-slinging character (for roughly the same amount as the injured PC the previous round).

I guess, how stupid is INT 4? Would it continue to wail on one target until it is dead? Would it strike the last person to deal it damage? Said PC is quite likely to perish should it hit him again, and that would suck... But I also don't want to be unrealistic, here...

If it's obligated to follow the orders to the letter? Caster, regardless of damage.

If they're strong suggestions? The caster, unless the other PC is right in the way.