Questions about Warblades

[Eladrinblade]

My character, pertaining to my following question:

Human Warblade 1
Bastard Sword Proficiency, Combat Reflexes
Maneuvers Known/Readied: Moment of Perfect Mind, Steel Wind, Sudden Leap
Stances Known: Hunter’s Sense

So, here is a sample combat.

Surprise Round: Get hit with a sleep spell, use Moment of Perfect Mind to ignore it.
Round 1: (Enemy charges, attacks, misses, I AoO and hit it, wounding it) Recover Moment of Perfect Mind, attack fool (which finishes it off)
Round 2: Initiate Steel Wind and move 20ft. closer to a couple more fools menacing my wizard.
Round 3: (Get hit with another sleep spell, use MoP again and ignore it) Sudden Leap tumble into the square between the two fools and use Steel Wind to attack both.

Anything wrong with all of that?

Also,

Where does it say what level you have to be to get 2nd or higher maneuvers?

Does Battle Cunning work against somebody with Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge?

I’m a bit confused about Initiation Actions, if a maneuver requires a standard action, does that mean I have to spend a round initiating (then ******* around with a move action), then use it the next round?
Two rounds for one special move?

[ZeroSpace9000]

Mainly, Sudden Leap requires another Tiger Claw manuever to pick up. Can't recall a page number for the maneuver learning level deal, but it's most likely at the start of the maneuver outlines chapter.

[Grumman]

Where does it say what level you have to be to get 2nd or higher maneuvers?
To learn an Nth level maneuver, you need an initiator level of 2N-1. 1st level gets you 1st level maneuvers, 3rd level gets you 2nd level maneuvers, 5th level gets you 3rd level maneuvers and so on.


I’m a bit confused about Initiation Actions, if a maneuver requires a standard action, does that mean I have to spend a round initiating (then ******* around with a move action), then use it the next round?
Two rounds for one special move?
No. If it says the Initiation action is a standard action, you use the standard action to make your attack.

[Runestar]

Surprise Round: Get hit with a sleep spell, use Moment of Perfect Mind to ignore it.

You can't use immediate actions while flat-footed, IIRC.

Using it would also consume your swift action for the next round, so you typically cannot recover your maneuvers on the round after you initiate a counter.

You may wish to counter replacing sudden leap with charging minotaur instead for the mobility, since you can't squeeze in wolf tiger claw.

Charging should not provoke AoOs unless you wield a reach weapon. So combat reflexes isn't particularly useful either.

Consider wielding a reach weapon like a ranseur or spiked chain. It also lets you maximize the use of steel wind, since the foes don't have to be that close together.

[Draz74]

My character, pertaining to my following question:

Human Warblade 1
Bastard Sword Proficiency, Combat Reflexes
Maneuvers Known/Readied: Moment of Perfect Mind, Steel Wind, Sudden Leap
Stances Known: Hunter’s Sense

You can't learn either Sudden Leap or Hunter's Sense without first having some other Tiger Claw maneuver (i.e., at this level, Wolf Fang Strike).

Other than that, you're fine so far, except that Bastard Sword proficiency pretty much is a waste of a feat. :smallwink:


So, here is a sample combat.

Surprise Round: Get hit with a sleep spell, use Moment of Perfect Mind to ignore it.
Can't use an immediate action while you're flat-footed. Unless you're the one doing the surprising, that includes a surprise round.


Round 1: (Enemy charges, attacks, misses, I AoO and hit it, wounding it) Recover Moment of Perfect Mind, attack fool (which finishes it off)
Enemy charges you and misses, fine. Where is the AoO coming from? Just getting attacked doesn't earn you an AoO.

On your turn, you can't recover your maneuvers if you don't have a swift action available. If you just used Moment of Perfect Mind (an immediate action), then you don't have a swift action available.


Round 2: Initiate Steel Wind and move 20ft. closer to a couple more fools menacing my wizard.
Steel Wind isn't a boost; you don't "initiate" it before making your attack. It is your attack. So you'd move, then initiate Steel Wind to whack two mooks.

Note that you still can't recover your expended maneuvers this round, even though you have a swift action available, because you can't use a maneuver (like Steel Wind) in the same round that you're Recovering.


Round 3: (Get hit with another sleep spell, use MoP again and ignore it) Sudden Leap tumble into the square between the two fools and use Steel Wind to attack both.
Again, if you used MoPM, you don't get a swift action this turn, so you can't use Sudden Leap. However, you can still use your normal Move Action (including Tumble). Steel Wind lets you move normally, then still hit two targets with one standard action.

Sudden Leap is great, but it's more useful when you get more than one attack in a full attack; and it's not useful if you're constantly using Counters in between each of your turns.


Where does it say what level you have to be to get 2nd or higher maneuvers?
I don't recall where in the book this is, but it's the same as the levels that a Wizard or Cleric gets access to a new level of spells, so it shouldn't be hard for most players to remember.


Does Battle Cunning work against somebody with Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge?
Battle Cunning works on a flat-footed foe, even if that foe has Uncanny Dodge (or heck, even Improved Uncanny Dodge). Uncanny Dodge just lets them keep their Dex bonus to AC. That has no effect on your Battle Cunning.

Battle Cunning does not work against a foe with Improved Uncanny Dodge, if he is not flat-footed, even if you are in a position to flank him. He is not considered Flanked.


I’m a bit confused about Initiation Actions, if a maneuver requires a standard action, does that mean I have to spend a round initiating (then ******* around with a move action), then use it the next round?
Two rounds for one special move?

Hopefully my responses above, as well as other peoples', have made this clear at this point.

[Leon]

Other than that, you're fine so far, except that Bastard Sword proficiency pretty much is a waste of a feat. :smallwink:


Weapon Aptitude - Use that EWP feat for any exotic weapon that you come across and want to use with skill

[AslanCross]

About initiation actions: The maneuver tells you what kind of action you need to make. The attack/s (if it's a strike) is/are always part of the initiation action. Time Stands Still, for example, allows you to make two full attacks as a Full-round action. If it cost a full-round action to "activate" THEN you had to do another full attack, it would be extremely self-defeating.

[Runestar]

Weapon Aptitude - Use that EWP feat for any exotic weapon that you come across and want to use with skill

Then you may as well play an elf - 4 free weapon prof feats which you can re-assign to get proficiency with any 4 exotic weapons of your choice each day. :smallamused:

[Teron]

Martial Weapon Proficiency and Exotic Weapon Proficiency are separate feats. You can change which weapon within the appropriate category they apply to, but you can't swap between them.

[Runestar]

Martial Weapon Proficiency and Exotic Weapon Proficiency are separate feats. You can change which weapon within the appropriate category they apply to, but you can't swap between them.

Not true. Weapon aptitude simply states:


Each morning, you can spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies only to a single weapon

It says nothing about being confined to the same weapon group. Nor does it care. A weapon is a weapon, regardless of what type (simple, martial, exotic) it is classified under.

Just as there is nothing stopping me from initially taking exotic weapon prof: spiked chain, then changing it into prof: longbow (normally a martial weapon) to give my warblade some ranged capabilities.:smallsmile:

[Oslecamo]

Round 3: (Get hit with another sleep spell, use MoP again and ignore it) Sudden Leap tumble into the square between the two fools and use Steel Wind to attack both.

Anything wrong with all of that?


Yes, MoP demands an imediate action, wich means you lose your next swift action, yet you use MoP and then sudden leap.

[Sliver]

It says nothing about being confined to the same weapon group. Nor does it care. A weapon is a weapon, regardless of what type (simple, martial, exotic) it is classified under.

Just as there is nothing stopping me from initially taking exotic weapon prof: spiked chain, then changing it into prof: longbow (normally a martial weapon) to give my warblade some ranged capabilities.:smallsmile:

Sure, aptitude doesn't care, the feat does. I don't see Exotic Weapon Proficiency(spiked chain) changing into Exotic Weapon Proficiency (longbow) because longbow isn't exotic, so can't be a target of EWP.

[Rainbownaga]

Then you may as well play an elf - 4 free weapon prof feats which you can re-assign to get proficiency with any 4 exotic weapons of your choice each day. :smallamused:

Does it actually give you the feats, or does it just give you proficiency? I had always assumed the latter.

Either way, it seems strange to have "martial proficiency: spiked chain"

[Edge]

It says nothing about being confined to the same weapon group. Nor does it care. A weapon is a weapon, regardless of what type (simple, martial, exotic) it is classified under.

Just as there is nothing stopping me from initially taking exotic weapon prof: spiked chain, then changing it into prof: longbow (normally a martial weapon) to give my warblade some ranged capabilities.:smallsmile:

His point is that Martial Weapon Proficiency and Exotic Weapon Proficiency are different feats. The elf's racial weapon proficiencies are all Martial, and thus can only be changed to weapons that are legal selections for the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat - i.e. martial weapons, if the name wasn't enough of a giveaway.

[Runestar]

Does it actually give you the feats, or does it just give you proficiency? I had always assumed the latter.

It grants the proficiencies as bonus feats.


Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.


Either way, it seems strange to have "martial proficiency: spiked chain"

Strange perhaps, but I don't see anything in the rules explicitly barring this. Both the longsword and spiked chain are weapons, that should be good enough as far as aptitude is concerned. :smallsmile:

Just as I can change the "light mace" requirement of the lightning mace feat (complete warrior) to some other weapon with a high threat range to have it activate more often. :smallcool:


The elf's racial weapon proficiencies are all Martial, and thus can only be changed to weapons that are legal selections for the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat - i.e. martial weapons

And my point is that nowhere is such a limitation explicitly stated.

To put it bluntly (and no offense intended), you are stating how you think the rules ought to work, not how it would work via a literal interpretation of the rules.

[Runestar]

On a side note, the OP might wish to rebuild his warblade somewhat, since his feat selection does not seem to complement the role he has in mind.

Combat reflexes is really only useful if you have reach, so either wield a reach weapon and/or have the wizard buff you with enlarge person. Though in the case of the latter, remember to have at least 13dex remaining after factoring in the dex penalty from enlarge person.

Else, you may wish to consider taking improved initiative instead. Go first, then delay to right after the wizard so you can attack after he has disabled some foes with sleep (hopefully without you in the AoE).

Likewise, you don't qualify for any of the tiger claw maneuvers/stances, so you may want to take punishing stance instead. +1d6 damage (or double this when initiating steel wind) is not too shabby a deal at 1st lv.

And consider charging minotaur to push foes away from your wizard or into hazards.

[Eldariel]

Elves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#elves):

"Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats."

Martial Weapon Proficiency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#martialWeaponProficiency):
"Choose a type of martial weapon. You understand how to use that type of martial weapon in combat."


As long as we are talking about Warblade's Weapon Aptitude, it doesn't seem like you could retrain the feats for non-Martial weapons due to the limitation in the feat.

[Edge]

As long as we are talking about Warblade's Weapon Aptitude, it doesn't seem like you could retrain the feats for non-Martial weapons due to the limitation in the feat.

Yep. Only exception would probably be if you were of a race that treated one or more exotic weapons as martial weapons. You could shift Martial Weapon Proficiency to those specific exotic weapons, but not others.

[Runestar]

As long as we are talking about Warblade's Weapon Aptitude, it doesn't seem like you could retrain the feats for non-Martial weapons due to the limitation in the feat.

My interpretation is that aptitude lets you ignore that limit.

[Noble Savant]

Choose a type of exotic weapon. You understand how to use that type of exotic weapon in combat.

Because of weapon aptitude you are free to assign your EWP to a long bow, or vice versa. The feat however, grants you the ability to use the chosen exotic weapon. If the chosen weapon is not exotic, then you don't gain proficiency, despite assigning the feat to it.

[Oslecamo]

You know, you could just pick up an exotic bow, there's several of them out there.

[hamishspence]

My interpretation is that aptitude lets you ignore that limit.

Which is the point- sometimes there is not a RAW answer to the question, so it becomes something of interpretation- that can be interpreted both ways.

Its not RAW that Weapon Aptitude can change Martial Weapon Proficiency X into Exotic Weapon Proficiency Y- its Rules As Interpreted.

[Weezer]

My interpretation is that aptitude lets you ignore that limit.

There are two different feats, Martial Weapon Proficiency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#martialWeaponProficiency) and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#exoticWeaponProficiency). Each one clearly states that they apply only to the type of weapon that each one is named after, namely martial and exotic respectively. This means that each feat can only be used for weapons of the same category martial to martial and exotic to exotic. There isn't much room for interpretation.