OOTS upgrades to 4e?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

:smallsmile:

Howdy, yall
I'm starting a thread to see what you think about the comic changing editions.
(Sure some serious changes would have to be made, and the comic would go through about 50-75 strips of transition before it settled.)
But I think the OOTS universe and characters are better for the 4E
system.

Roy:
Roy wouldn't have to undergo to many changes, I think a 4E Roy would be awsome.
He couldn't specialize in his greatsword as much and would lose his great cleave feat (much to belkar's dismay) but could still cleave.
he would become better at what he is already good at like every 4.0
character.:smallsmile:

Haley:
Haley would lose bow prof. witch is one of her staples
but could probably find a way to get around it.
(Like hybriding with ranger) She would enjoy the cool stuff you get to do with powers (careful shot, split the tree, ect.) and would LOVE coins being 80% lighter. (lol):smallconfused:

Durkon:
Durkon would like the 4E dwarf's +2 to wisdom and the overall direction of the cleric class.
Some of radiant powers of the cleric class would have to be changed to thunder and lightning damage though.:smallsmile:

V:
V would like 4E (lets face it, 4E spells are cooler).
How ever, her signature spell (explosive runes)
does not exist.
I wonder if V would be an elf or an eladrin?:smallfrown:

Elan:
Hmmm
Elan probably wouldn't like 4.0.
They changed some of the concepts of the bard class but I assume the dashing swordsman could be a paragon path (if the order is atleast lv 11):smallannoyed:

Belkar:
I think Belkar would LOVE 4.0 (more hp, no more annoying penalties to halflings, 2 attacks without penalty, minions, ect.):smallfurious::smallbiggrin:

Tell me what you think.

[Sanguine]

I think it being converted to 4th edition would be a horrible, horrible idea and I am thankful Rich said he doesn't plan on converting. Also V would be an Eladrin how can you even see him as a 4th edition Elf?

[Linkavitch]

Hey, another one of these.

To put it shortly, rich has said upgrading to 4e would be more of a gag-a-day strip, more in line with the first story arc then what he's doing now. In other words, it would provide no plot progression, therefore won't happen. This doesn't mean he's not going to make 4e jokes, there just won't be a strip devoted to upgrading.

[Mando Knight]

Official answer is in the top post here (http://www.giantitp.com/index1.html).

[hamishspence]

I recall a thread statting out a 4E Vaarsuvius- it managed a surprisingly large amount of V's abilities.

[NerfTW]

(Sure some serious changes would have to be made, and the comic would go through about 50-75 strips of transition before it settled.)


Awfully exact statement, not to mention an odd number to choose.

But in case you haven't noticed, the comic is past the halfway point and running headlong into the end game. There's no reason or need to change the characters just to stay topical to a brand new system. It would just be a meaningless amount of reworking just to... what exactly? It's not like 3.5 has been wiped from history with the onset of the fourth edition.

[Mando Knight]

I recall a thread statting out a 4E Vaarsuvius- it managed a surprisingly large amount of V's abilities.

Well, evokers didn't lose much by switching... just that the spells got spread over more levels.

[hamishspence]

Found the original thread.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113423&highlight=Edition+Vaarsuvius+rules

Timberboar's post had the 4E Vaarsuvius build.

I wonder if any Explosive Runes type rituals have been created since then?

[Optimystik]

I predict that
upgrading to 4e is how OotS will end - justified in-universe by some radical side-effect of the Snarl - and we will then see a new story beginning, starring Roy's Windsoul Genasi daughter forming a new party of unlikely adventurers.

[TriForce]

4th edition, while being a fun game, really isnt comparable to 3.5 or previous editions, for the simple reason that 3.5 is more focused on roleplay and customization (yeah ill get some people who disagree with me on that, fine, im right regardless of your arguements :smalltongue:) for this reason im REALLY glad that rich decided not to go 4th edition

[Edhelras]

Ugh. The OP just reminded me why I hate 4E...

I won't go into it. Resist-resist-resist-the-flaming-bait...:smallannoyed:

[TriForce]

:smallsmile:
V:
V would like 4E (lets face it, 4E spells are cooler).


huh? what? perhaps you are going on the "law of conservation of ninjitsu" approach? the less there are, the cooler they MUST be? i really see nothing ANY 4th edition spell has that makes it cooler then a 3.5 edition, or any other for that matter

[hamishspence]

Quoting from the thread I linked to earlier:


A few minutes with the DDI 4E character builder gives me this...


Vaarsuvius, level 18
Eladrin, Wizard, Battle Mage
Arcane Implement Mastery: Wand of Accuracy
Second Implement: Tome of Readiness

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 15, Dex 15, Int 25, Wis 15, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 10.


AC: 32 Fort: 21 Reflex: 26 Will: 24
HP: 93 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +14, Arcana +31, Dungeoneering +16, History +23, Nature +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Diplomacy +9, Endurance +11, Heal +11, Insight +11, Intimidate +9, Perception +13, Religion +16, Stealth +11, Streetwise +9, Thievery +11, Athletics +8

FEATS
Wizard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Familiar
Level 2: Alertness
Level 4: Alchemist
Level 6: Expanded Spellbook
Level 8: Enlarge Spell
Level 10: Destructive Wizardry
Level 11: War Wizardry
Level 12: Expert Ritualist
Level 14: Skill Focus (Arcana)
Level 16: Arcane Reach
Level 18: Second Implement

POWERS
Wizard at-will 1: Magic Missile
Wizard at-will 1: Scorching Burst
Tome of Readiness: Combust
Wizard daily 1: Sleep
Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Wizard's Fury
Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Acid Arrow
Wizard daily 15: Blast of Cold (replaces Ice Storm)
Wizard daily 15 Spellbook: Ball Lightning
Wizard daily 15 Spellbook: Prismatic Beams
Wizard daily 5: Fireball
Wizard daily 5 Spellbook: Bigby's Icy Grasp
Wizard daily 5 Spellbook: Web
Wizard daily 9: Ice Storm
Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Mordenkainen's Sword
Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Wall of Fire
Wizard encounter 1: Burning Hands
Wizard encounter 13: Prismatic Burst (replaces Burning Hands)
Wizard encounter 17: Crushing Titan's Fist (replaces Hypnotic Pattern)
Wizard encounter 3: Hypnotic Pattern
Wizard encounter 7: Lightning Bolt
Wizard utility 10: True Seeing
Wizard utility 10 Spellbook: Mirror Image
Wizard utility 16: Fly
Wizard utility 16 Spellbook: Stoneskin
Wizard utility 2: Expeditious Retreat
Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Feather Fall
Wizard utility 6: Dispel Magic
Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Invisibility

ITEMS
Spellbook, Ring of Wizardry (epic tier), Magic Feyweave Armor +5, Headband of Intellect (paragon tier)
RITUALS
Animal Messenger, Magic Mouth, Sending, Seal Portal, Overland Flight


Not spot on by ANY stretch of the imagination, but about as close as I could get on short notice, using the Class and Geekery thread as a guideline.

It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't terrible either.

I don't expect it to update to 4E (and wouldn't be pleased, if it did) but for playing an OoTS influenced 4E game, it looks like there are ways of getting rough approximations of some of the OoTS characters.

[Emperor Ing]

It won't happen. I recall The Giant said that OotS might incorporate a few elements of 4E into the comic for the sake of humor, but other than that it won't happen. OotS will remain 3.5E indefinitely.

[spectralphoenix]

Ugh. The OP just reminded me why I hate 4E...

I won't go into it. Resist-resist-resist-the-flaming-bait...:smallannoyed:

This.

Do we really need another one of these threads?

[hamishspence]

Instead of "how would the order react to being converted" a more interesting question is:

"in one's own, homebrewed version of the OoTS-verse, using the 4E ruleset, what would be the closest approximation to, say, Roy, or Haley, or some other character?"

[Optimystik]

4th edition, while being a fun game, really isnt comparable to 3.5 or previous editions, for the simple reason that 3.5 is more focused on roleplay and customization (yeah ill get some people who disagree with me on that, fine, im right regardless of your arguements :smalltongue:) for this reason im REALLY glad that rich decided not to go 4th edition

This is true, but not quite the same as 4e being incapable of roleplay and customization.

WotC simply realized (quite rightly) that fluff was something best left to the players to decide, and focused on fine-tuning the mechanics instead.

Roy would be happy to know that being a single-classed fighter is not nearly the death sentence in 4e that it is in 3.5. Belkar would also be happy to know that dumping Wis isn't as bad a choice for him there.

[Shale]

This is true, but not quite the same as 4e being incapable of roleplay and customization.

WotC simply realized (quite rightly) that fluff was something best left to the players to decide, and focused on fine-tuning the mechanics instead.

This. Whenever somebody says that 4E took the focus off the mechanics and rules for roleplaying, I wonder why you need mechanics and rules for roleplaying.

[Wreckingrocc]

The other thing about that is the severe limitations of 4e on how many powers you can have. Once you get to paragon tier, all new combat powers have to replace old ones.

Also, V's Wisdom shouldn't be anywhere near 15. That, in perspective, is roughly halfway between average and the pinnacle of natural human excellence. V has clearly demonstrated in many recent strips that he has exceedingly low Wisdom, even were his intentions good. That's the other thing I hate about 4e; it makes certain ability scores completely necessary for characters, even when it makes no sense, and "takes out" four alignments, essentially making the alignment system even more worthless.

Rituals always made me angry for some reason, too.
WotC simply realized (quite rightly) that fluff was something best left to the players to decide, and focused on fine-tuning the mechanics instead....Except that 4e is equally based on mechanics, and if you fall behind due to customization, you're screwed. The only difference between 4e and 3.5 in regards to the effects of min/maxing have to do with how easy it is to do, and not how effective it is in the game.

For example, I played several 4e games before I realized I disliked it. In all of it, there's always one person who goes for roleplaying over rollplaying. Their character's race doesn't complement their build, and they mishmash things that don't mishmash in regards to multiclassing. This person is always quite behind with major ability scores, and suffers for it. The character never hits, due to the rigid standardization system, and the character never contributes to the party. Those who align race and class do much, much better overall.

In 3.5, the same thing happens when you compare a high-level wizard and an equally high-level fighter, but at least the fighter isn't so constrained by scaling power and rules that they won't be able to hit. If the DM wants to fix something in 4e, they have to really, really botch all their monsters' ability scores to reduce defenses and whatnot for the poor roleplayer. In 3.5, they just slap on some monster abilities, which nobody questions, and maybe throw in some cool weapons for the fighter.

[hamishspence]

I prefer to think of it as going right back to D&D's roots (there were 5 alignments then, too, in early Basic edition,

though later editions of Basic/Expert/Companion/Master D&D, went with 3.

Just rename Good and Evil, Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil, and you have the earlier version of the Basic alignment system.

[Morty]

We haven't had a 3rd edition vs. 4th edition thread in a while. While I admit that seeing the OoTS translated to 4ed is interesting, one may think that if the Giant hasn't updated the comic to the new edition by now, it's a clear indication he won't ever do it.

[Shale]

V has clearly demonstrated in many recent strips that he has exceedingly low Wisdom, even were his intentions good. That's the other thing I hate about 4e; it makes certain ability scores completely necessary for characters, even when it makes no sense, and "takes out" four alignments, essentially making the alignment system even more worthless.

Huh?

You need high INT to be a good wizard, high WIS to be a good cleric, high CHA to be a good bard, high CHA or STR (preferably both) to be a good paladin...how is that different from older D&D?

And V doesn't need that WIS for his/her class; I just paged through the PHB and found maybe five uses of the word "wisdom" in the wizard chapter.

I agree on the alignment system...so I always house-rule in 3.5 alignments. It's not exactly a world-shattering rule change to reverse if you so choose.

[hamishspence]

That's pretty much what I think.

I like the idea of creating 4E characters as like the OoTS ones as possible within the limits of the system, though.

Also:


And V doesn't need that WIS for his/her class; I just paged through the PHB and found maybe five uses of the word "wisdom" in the wizard chapter.

the feat Expanded Spellbook requires Wis 13, as does Enlarge Spell- this is probably why it's so high so early.

[Talkkno]

We haven't had a 3rd edition vs. 4th edition thread in a while. While I admit that seeing the OoTS translated to 4ed is interesting, one may think that if the Giant hasn't updated the comic to the new edition by now, it's a clear indication he won't ever do it.

No reason we can't speculate.

[Morty]

No reason we can't speculate.

That's true. But I was referring to the OP, which clearly indicates that the author thinks the change is a possbility.

[Optimystik]

In 3.5, the same thing happens when you compare a high-level wizard and an equally high-level fighter, but at least the fighter isn't so constrained by scaling power and rules that they won't be able to hit.

In 3.5, the fighter's problem isn't being able to hit - it's being able to do nothing but hit.

4e gives them many more options besides "I attack." That's a good thing.

But this is a better topic for the Roleplaying Games forum.

[Sahaar]

I think it being converted to 4th edition would be a horrible, horrible idea and I am thankful Rich said he doesn't plan on converting. Also V would be an Eladrin how can you even see him as a 4th edition Elf?

Agreed.

I started DnD in 4e, then tried 3.5e to play here, and found that I liked 3.5e a ton better. 3.5e>4e IMO.

[Talkkno]

Agreed.

I started DnD in 4e, then tried 3.5e to play here, and found that I liked 3.5e a ton better. 3.5e>4e IMO.

This isn't a 3.5 vs 4e debate *sigh*

[NerfTW]

I predict that
upgrading to 4e is how OotS will end - justified in-universe by some radical side-effect of the Snarl - and we will then see a new story beginning, starring Roy's Windsoul Genasi daughter forming a new party of unlikely adventurers.

The only problem with that is that Rich said he had the final panel in mind when he first made the plot. That was long before 4e was even announced. The ending was conceived years before 4e, adding it now would most likely be shoe horning it in as an afterthought.

And considering we've seen references to 4e already, alongside references to first and second edition characters still existing, I don't think the world is going to go through a noticable upgrade. The first strip should be ignored. Everything we've seen since suggests that the editions are interchangable in this world.

[Kish]

Unmentioned in the original post:
Suddenly the whole "paladins can't do anything evil or associate with anyone evil" theme makes no sense.
(Start of Darkness spoilers):
Xykon's issues with wizards no longer make any sense.

[Kurald Galain]

I recall a thread statting out a 4E Vaarsuvius- it managed a surprisingly large amount of V's abilities.
Really? Because the guy who posted that says it's "Not spot on by ANY stretch of the imagination".

The first ten spells of V's spell list are "Banishment, Bugsby's Grasping Hand, Bull's Strength, Chain Lightning, Charm Monster, Cone of Cold, Crushing Despair, Detect Magic, Dimensional Anchor, Disintegrate" (from the geekery thread). Half of those don't even exist in 4E.

[The Dark Fiddler]

The only problem with that is that Rich said he had the final panel in mind when he first made the plot. That was long before 4e was even announced. The ending was conceived years before 4e, adding it now would most likely be shoe horning it in as an afterthought.

Not necessarily, if the final panel was Roy's (and Celia's?) child going off to start his/her own adventure, then it could still be that with the panels preceding being the 4e conversion.

Not that I think it'll happen, but just saying.

[spectralphoenix]

4e gives them many more options besides "I attack." That's a good thing.


Most of which are either basic attacks with numerical bonuses or attacks that could be achieved with feats in 3.5 (like tripping and stuff.)

Instead of charging and then attacking every round, he now uses an encounter power and then the same basic power over and over again every round.

[KiwiImperator]

Can't really see the point. OotS is clearly played low-power, as in the fashion played by people who have no idea how to optimize. The glaring balance discrepancies in 3.5 are not really obvious to people who haven't taken the game that far yet, and thus there's nothing to be truly gained by switching to the 4th edition, except a cumbersome re-evaluation of power and the loss of a few running gags. In this case, isn't so much an upgrade as a sideshift, and The Giant is walking the narrow edge as it is. (The guy must be fighting the undead on his off time or something.)

Anyway, all that aside, 4e strikes me as too... Well frankly, too sleek of a game for Order of the Stick, where a solid half of the in-game jokes are poking fun at the holes in the ruleset. Now our protagonists running into a party that's co-opted the Pathfinder rules, that'd be less dramatic of a change.

[TriForce]

This is true, but not quite the same as 4e being incapable of roleplay and customization.

WotC simply realized (quite rightly) that fluff was something best left to the players to decide, and focused on fine-tuning the mechanics instead.

Roy would be happy to know that being a single-classed fighter is not nearly the death sentence in 4e that it is in 3.5. Belkar would also be happy to know that dumping Wis isn't as bad a choice for him there.

no ofc, you dont need any mechanics for roleplaying, however i was just pointing out that 4th is more focused on combat then 3.5, and i feel that having more mechanics for roleplay and customization encourages it more too.

[yanmaodao]

I do like the fact that the non-caster classes have been souped up for 4e which was sorely needed. I also like the creation of the Eladrin, which takes over the former territory of the High Elf while losing the sylvan connections.

(Right? Actually, but don't High Elves still exist in 4e? Anyway but the main thing I like about it is that Elves, ever since Tolkien, have often come too close to becoming a Mary Sue race, with different subraces alternating supreme mastery in all the kewlest aspects of fantasy. Besides Drow/Dark Elves, I prefer no subraces. Elves are either high magic or sylvan - not both. High Elf/Moon Elf isn't enough, they need completely different names and appearances. And I appears WotC has given the high magic part to the Eladrin, and the sylvan part to the Elves. Again, correct me if I'm off base. Personally, I have in my head a campaign setting where the reverse is true; Elves are magical beings, and another race entirely takes over the nature-loving archer role.)

But yeah, having to switch Vaarsuvius to an Eladrin would be catastrophic. More likely, an Eladrin makes a cameo appearance in the comic, if that.

[Mando Knight]

I do like the fact that the non-caster classes have been souped up for 4e which was sorely needed. I also like the creation of the Eladrin, which takes over the former territory of the High Elf while losing the sylvan connections.

(Right? Actually, but don't High Elves still exist in 4e?)

Moon/Sun Elves in 4e's FR are Eladrin that take a feat to get an added little bonus. In other words, yes, Eladrin are the High (Elrond) Elves and Elves are the Forest-Archer (Legolas/Lothlorién/Murkwood) Elves.

[spectralphoenix]

IIRC, elves and eladrin are basically the same race, it's just that the eladrin live in the Feywild while elves live on the Material.

[yanmaodao]

Ahh, I see. So maybe there wouldn't too much trouble updating Vaarsuvius to Eladrin. Darn it, though. I think a whole another PC race would be a good idea. I do sense a bit of clutter, but only because there are entire superfluous races dedicated to being the comic relief. (Gnomes, and to a lesser extent halflings.) Replace those two with one more serious race, and we're in. Halflings, I feel, would be better suited as an NPC race.

[Asta Kask]

I think they should all be replaced by Dragonborn.

[yanmaodao]

I think they should all be replaced by Dragonborn.

Or, just dragons.

[Shale]

Or sticks. It's the only wya to make the title accurate!

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

:smallfurious:
SCREW THAT!!! Halflings are AWSOME!
No one insults Frodo, Bilbo, Belkar, and lidda(3.5 ph) in front of me.
:smallmad:

[Snake-Aes]

:smallfurious:
SCREW THAT!!! Halflings are AWSOME!
No one insults Frodo, Bilbo, Belkar, and lidda(3.5 ph) in front of me.
:smallmad:

<offensive remark questioning josha's fixation with halflings>

[Aramir21]

<offensive remark questioning josha's fixation with halflings>

<witty addition to previous question of josha's fixation with halflings>

[Katana_Geldar]

I remember ages ago someone did stat blocks for all the OOTS, I save the ddi files and here's V.

But I modified V slightly, took away the armour feat and gave him/her arcane familiar.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Vaarsuvius, level 14
Eladrin, Wizard, Spellstorm Mage
Build: War Wizard
Arcane Implement Mastery: Tome of Readiness

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 15, Int 24, Wis 15, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 10.


AC: 27 Fort: 23 Reflex: 28 Will: 26
HP: 76 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +12, Arcana +24, Insight +14, History +21, Dungeoneering +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Endurance +9, Heal +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +14, Stealth +12, Streetwise +7, Thievery +9, Athletics +6

FEATS
Wizard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Familiar
Level 2: Elven Arcane Precision
Level 4: Improved Initiative
Level 6: Implement Expertise (Tome)
Level 8: Distant Advantage
Level 10: Destructive Wizardry
Level 11: Improved Tome of Readiness
Level 12: War Wizardry
Level 14: Paragon Defenses

POWERS
Tome of Readiness: Burning Hands (retrained to Thunderlance at Level 14)
Wizard at-will 1: Thunderwave
Wizard at-will 1: Magic Missile
Wizard encounter 1: Force Orb
Wizard daily 1: Wizard's Fury
Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Sleep
Wizard utility 2: Shield
Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Feather Fall
Wizard encounter 3: Fire Shroud
Wizard daily 5: Bigby's Icy Grasp
Wizard daily 5 Spellbook: Fireball
Wizard utility 6: Invisibility
Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Dispel Magic
Wizard encounter 7: Fire Burst
Wizard daily 9: Wall of Fire
Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Taunting Phantoms
Wizard utility 10: Repelling Shield
Wizard utility 10 Spellbook: Illusory Wall
Wizard encounter 13: Prismatic Burst (replaces Force Orb)

ITEMS
Spellbook, Book of Undeniable Fire +3, Elven Cloak +3, Ring of Wizardry (epic tier), Adventurer's Kit, Runic Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +3
RITUALS
Arcane Mark, Comprehend Language, Amanuensis, Detect Secret Doors, Sending, Wizard's Sight, Magic Map, Scribe, View Location
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

[Mystic Muse]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1

why replace them when they can become them.:smallamused:

[Leolo]

Anyway, all that aside, 4e strikes me as too... Well frankly, too sleek of a game for Order of the Stick, where a solid half of the in-game jokes are poking fun at the holes in the ruleset

First i had the same opinion, thinking about how a 4E conversion of the OotS could look like. Many of the old gags wouldn't make sense after this. For example the balancing between the classes would be removed from the list of potential gags. Elan would be usefull without a prestige class.

But now that i thought about it, i believe that your statement is not right. It is not about poking fun at the holes in the ruleset. It is about poking fun at the misunderstanding and false interpretation of the existing holes in the ruleset.

Look at the example above. Elan is not considered useless because his class is weak and not correct balanced. Bard may not be the best class at all, but far from useless. But there are many that do consider it so, that interpret it as being not worth to take. And that is the gag about the useless Elan. He is a symbol for how the bard is treated not for how it could be. If he would actually use what could be good and strong within his class abilities he would make some difference even without his prestige class. Many of the OotS gags fit this scheme. They take a common prejudice or misunderstanding and create something funny out of it.

In a short sentence: Rich's gags about 3.5 (and especially the OotS Characters) are not about 3.5 being a bad system, but about what faults you could do using it. And from that point of view it does not matter if 4E is more sleek than 3.5, more balanced and with less holes to make fun about.

All you need for a OotS like gag would be a common misunderstanding of the system that caricature existing or not really existing problems in the system. And i think there are many things that could be found in this category.

[Kurald Galain]

Anyway, all that aside, 4e strikes me as too... Well frankly, too sleek of a game for Order of the Stick, where a solid half of the in-game jokes are poking fun at the holes in the ruleset.

You mean holes like where fire attacks work normally underwater, oozes and slimes can be tripped, stabbed in the vitals as well as mind-controlled, and a low-strength cleric can break through any wall by punching it? :smallbiggrin:

[KiwiImperator]

You mean holes like where fire attacks work normally underwater, oozes and slimes can be tripped, stabbed in the vitals as well as mind-controlled, and a low-strength cleric can break through any wall by punching it? :smallbiggrin:

I was unaware of any of those things.

[krossbow]

Unfortunately, if they changed the OoT universe to 4.0, xykon would go from being a nigh unstoppable monster to being easily defeatable with the resources concievably available to the order and saphire guardsmen. (Team evil, being almost pure caster would be nerfed FAR more than the order or paladins).


They'd still be too high a CR for a fair fight, but xykon would be WAY easier to smoke.


I was unaware of any of those things.

Hardness got scrapped due to being too complicated (apparently). Due to this, simply keep wailing on something, and it will go down (walls, boats, statues, ect.).

[Katana_Geldar]

What I would like to see if the Order metr a 4e adventuring party, 4e does (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0562.html) exist in this world, after all.

[hamishspence]

But does it exist only as a game, or do the mechanics exist as well?

D&D is played in Celestia, and in SoD we see the goblins playing D&D in their underground jail cell.

[Yeoman]

4th edition, while being a fun game, really isnt comparable to 3.5 or previous editions, for the simple reason that 3.5 is more focused on roleplay and customization

I'd argue 4th Ed requires at least as much Roleplaying if not more. If only for most classes being very similar to each other and the lack of Non-combat skills. While 3.5 encourages it with lots of non-combat related abilities, 4th ed pretty much *requires* you to roleplay non-combat situations.

But, take that opinion for what it's worth, I haven't actually gotten to try out 4th ed because my regular group pretty much sees it as only good for dungeon crawling due to its lack of non-combatty stuff.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Good point but rich can't live in the past.

[Kish]

If by that you mean, he can't keep writing a webcomic based on 3.5ed D&D, I believe you are in error about his capabilities, which he will continue to demonstrate.

[Mystic Muse]

Good point but rich can't live in the past.

There is no way for him to change to 4th edition short of putting up a notification that he's doing so. A lot of the earlier jokes and things won't work. for example, Paladins don't have t be lawful good, Vaarsuvious would've been able to kill the gods with the power he had, Roy couldn't have a sword made of starmetal and I don't think great cleave exists in 4th edition.

I'm sure there's a TON of other stuff I'm just not thinking of right now. I recall Rich explicitly stating that he wouldn't be updating to 4th edition. and if he was going to, wouldn't he have done so when it came out rather than waiting about 2 years?:smallconfused:

also, what Kish said.

[Ancalagon]

Good point but rich can't live in the past.

Why not? I surely do.

At least I'm not recognizing 4th at all. I'm not going to buy it if 3.5 works fine as it is.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Rich's already said this isn't going to happen, and 3.5 v. 4e has been discussed at length elsewhere.