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Loren
2010-02-18, 08:16 PM
I was recently browsing the wizards of the coast web site and I noticed that a new line of products call "essentials" will start coming out this fall. It looks like to books will be cheaper and (hurray) they will be switching over from minis to game tokens (I've been wanting the price effiecency of tokens for years). But I'm not sure what "essentials" are suppose to be. Are they just going to be a face lift for the current line of produces? A simplified and cheapened rendition of 4E core?

oxybe
2010-02-18, 08:26 PM
http://critical-hits.com/2010/01/29/dd-xp-2010-dungeons-dragons-essentials/

the red box version is an introductory set, while the rules compendium is just the core rules+errata compiled in one softcover book and in a more user-friendly way.

RebelRogue
2010-02-18, 09:01 PM
I love the design of that box. Nostalgiatastic! :smallbiggrin:

Draz74
2010-02-19, 12:46 AM
So essentially, could someone with Rules Compendium and a DDI subscription never buy another 4e book, and yet not miss out on any of their content except fluff?

bosssmiley
2010-02-19, 07:25 AM
I was recently browsing the wizards of the coast web site and I noticed that a new line of products call "essentials" will start coming out this fall. It looks like to books will be cheaper and (hurray) they will be switching over from minis to game tokens (I've been wanting the price effiecency of tokens for years). But I'm not sure what "essentials" are suppose to be. Are they just going to be a face lift for the current line of produces? A simplified and cheapened rendition of 4E core?

WOTC are reviving the idea of quick-to-learn Basic D&D, coz they've tapped out the idea well entirely and have realised there's a quick buck to be made off the back of nostalgia.

Expect 4E-lite in Mentzer Basic trade dress (http://vulcanstev.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dd-bbox.jpg).

Further in the future, expect to see something with a "5" in its name (4.5, or 5E) by mid 2011.

Loren
2010-02-19, 09:32 AM
I've been expecting a D&D 4E Advanced anytime now (I figure the nestaligia value is better than a .5).
Since I only have the 4E PHB the possiblity of a cheaper books is quite appealing I must admit.

DragonBaneDM
2010-02-19, 10:52 AM
Oh game tokens...I knew the rest of them would start using as well. It was only a matter of time! The world mocked me when I spent twenty minutes cutting out circular pictures of monsters and taping them to quarters before each session, but I was right confound it!!!! :smallbiggrin:

Ichneumon
2010-02-19, 11:48 AM
I'm almost considering buying them just for the tokens and the adventure. Does anyone know how the tokens will look like and what their quality will be?

oxybe
2010-02-19, 05:55 PM
huh? what "advanced" 4th ed :smallconfused:?
this is trying a 2nd time to make a quick play version for new players. D&D has never been easy to pickup by total newbies.


Further in the future, expect to see something with a "5" in its name (4.5, or 5E) by mid 2011.

i highly doubt it. a 4.5 would be a shot in the foot after the 3.5 fiasco and with the current distribution methods used: DDi (which contains errata), the free errata online & the upcoming rules compendium (which is effectively the contained updated rules and only rules [from what i understand, it's like the 3.5 rules compendium]) a 4.5 release is meaningless, unless you honestly believe WotC is the evil corp (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MegaCorp), run by the devil itself (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CorruptCorporateExecutive) & housed in mordor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilTowerOfOminousness) only looking at the bottom line (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Greed).

i don't know why you expect a 5th ed already, unless this is meant to troll in which case :smallyuk: and double :smallyuk:

bosssmiley
2010-02-20, 11:54 AM
unless you honestly believe WotC is the evil corp (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MegaCorp), run by the devil itself (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CorruptCorporateExecutive) & housed in mordor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilTowerOfOminousness) only looking at the bottom line (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Greed).

See the GSL, or the debacle over archival material pdf sales. WOTC does not play nice with others recently.

But, then again, never ascribe to malice what can fairly be blamed on incomptence. If it walks, swims and quacks like a clueless, koqbloking dog-in-the-manger holding company with a dominant market position but no original ideas of its own... :smallwink:


i don't know why you expect a 5th ed already, unless this is meant to troll in which case :smallyuk: and double :smallyuk:

Not trolling, an honest prediction. The last 4E book listed in the catalogue is September 2010. No, really. Go look (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Catalog.aspx). "Advanced D&D" (aka, 5E in nostalgia-aping, confusion-sowing trade dress) by 2011.

Yora
2010-02-20, 12:34 PM
Some time ago someone said something like:

"WotCs business descisions in the last time have been like watching a horde of drunken monkeys driving a million dollar Rolls Royce into a wall in slow motions. At the same time totaly hillarious and very sad."

erikun
2010-02-20, 06:13 PM
Not trolling, an honest prediction. The last 4E book listed in the catalogue is September 2010. No, really. Go look (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Catalog.aspx). "Advanced D&D" (aka, 5E in nostalgia-aping, confusion-sowing trade dress) by 2011.
Player's Handbook Races: Humans - 12/21/10

I'd also like to point out that Players Handbook 3, scheduled to be released next month, was not listed back in December. I think you're jumping to conclusions.

Anyways, I'm not attributing anything to malice that is more accurately attributed to a simple desire for money. WotC wants your money. They will keep releasing 4e products until your money no longer supports the series, at which point they'll begin releasing a new product/edition. They don't hate you, they don't hate D&D, they just want to get paid and are printing what they can to do so.

oxybe
2010-02-20, 07:09 PM
well Boss, i can hardly blame Paizo for wanting to ride coattails of someone successful... or are we talking about WotC when we're talking unoriginality?:smallwink:

you don't need to be original to be successful. WotC picked ideas from various sources to make their games. they find what works and what they like and try to incorporate it within their given framework if possible. i mean, the delorean's gull-wing doors were pretty cool (which they copied from the mercedez), but you don't see that model of car (or types of doors) nowadays, do you? in the end people really don't want "original" they want "what works". picasso said: "Bad artists copy, Good artists steal". it's one of those dirty little facts of life.

as for blame, it can be attributed wherever we want, but the end result is people howling at the moon and we're still left with no PDFs (that i never cared about. i don't have a laptop to carry them around with nor do i care about travelling with a bunch of printouts) and a more restrictive GSL (is the GSL how i would have handled it? probably not, though i admit i didn't read it fully since i never planned on releasing material, but i would not have done something like another OGL, which was way too open-source for my liking).

personally, those "debacles" didn't even blip on my radar. i feel for those who were affected by it, but my life was left unchanged by this.

as for the "greed" thing... TSR wanted your money. WotC wants your money. SJGames wants your money. WW wants your money. they're a company, this should be expected. i've been through 2 D&D edition changes, and this truth has and always will be a constant "companies want your money". if their product stops making money, they stop that product and focus on a new one. you may not like it, but hey, life's a :smallannoyed:.

Mando Knight
2010-02-20, 08:18 PM
Hm... D&D Gamma World (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/254600000): a bizarre post-nuclear-apocalyptic D&D world... sounds weirdly interesting.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-02-20, 08:22 PM
Hm... D&D Gamma World (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/254600000): a bizarre post-nuclear-apocalyptic D&D world... sounds weirdly interesting.
OK, I am officially interested in WotC re-releasing old TSR IP.

So long as they don't bring back Dragon Dice :smalleek:

Shardan
2010-02-20, 10:59 PM
I never liked Gamma world or spell-jammer and hoped neither would ever make it back

bosssmiley
2010-02-21, 08:04 AM
well Boss, i can hardly blame Paizo for wanting to ride coattails of someone successful... or are we talking about WotC when we're talking unoriginality?:smallwink:

You're just trying to send me into an undignified spiral of gibbering nerdrage now, ain'tcha? :smallbiggrin:

You're entirely right about the almighty $$$ as motivator. All companies are after our money. I just wish some I could name would treat their customers as something better than contemptible dime-a-dozen johns. Courtesy and honesty in communication is just good customer service; lying to the consumer and bait-and-switch are just low.


Hm... D&D Gamma World (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/254600000): a bizarre post-nuclear-apocalyptic D&D world... sounds weirdly interesting familiar.

fxt :smallwink:

Tinfoil hat time: Goblinoid Games (http://www.goblinoidgames.com/products.html) is nothing but an arms-length subsidiary of WOTC devoted to market research, and not actually a small press publisher at all. The Matt Finch is a lie! It's all Gleemax! (and soylent green is old TSR games!)


So long as they don't bring back Dragon Dice :smalleek:

Don't worry about that. It seems WOTC sold the million or so unsold dice off cheap to Fantasy Flight Games. Something about their WFRP(INO) dice game... ("True story guvnah. No make up.")

edit: Dang, we derailed this thread gooooood. :smalleek:

oxybe
2010-02-21, 02:07 PM
You're just trying to send me into an undignified spiral of gibbering nerdrage now, ain'tcha? :smallbiggrin:

You're entirely right about the almighty $$$ as motivator. All companies are after our money. I just wish some I could name would treat their customers as something better than contemptible dime-a-dozen johns. Courtesy and honesty in communication is just good customer service; lying to the consumer and bait-and-switch are just low.


don't make me :smallredface:, you flatterer you.

the only "lying to the customer" i can think of is the online tools component that the marketing people touted, and from what i understood or cared about enough to pay attention to they had various delays & issues with the developer they were using.

this is my speculation: after dropping the 3rd party guy & they bringing it in-house this made further delays since their devs probably aren't programmers by default, just web guys. i'm guessing some new guys had to be brought in and the old guys needed to learn a new skillset or two.

it happens. then again, i've got a background in IT so i guess i'm biased. i'm trained in network administration, though i'm currently doing tech support due to living in a not-IT heavy city and i'm not a big fan of moving (i've got my roots set right now). i've got some idea of what goes into programming as i've taken a few classes & i live with a guy who does a bit of software developing (not much, he's more of a web designer then anything. he keeps me around to bounce ideas off when he does program :smallamused:).



Tinfoil hat time: Goblinoid Games (http://www.goblinoidgames.com/products.html) is nothing but an arms-length subsidiary of WOTC devoted to market research, and not actually a small press publisher at all. The Matt Finch is a lie! It's all Gleemax! (and soylent green is old TSR games!)

this begs the question: if the cake is a lie, does that mean a Matt Finch will taste good with frosting?

Mando Knight
2010-02-21, 05:05 PM
OK, I am officially interested in WotC re-releasing old TSR IP.
*Does a wiki check*
*Realizes that there were 6 editions published before he ever picked up a D&D book*

Huh. Nostalgia and post-apocalypse. Double score!