Poison, an assassin's best friend

[sanji77]

Alright. So how do i craft it, where can i find a list of the available poisons, and can i buy it??

[Splendor]

You craft them with the Craft(Poison) skill and a almost complete list can be found on crystalkeep.com under equipment.

[FishAreWet]

Whooo! Second time I've posted this in two days! (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0)

[sanji77]

Alirght, so basically at lvl 12 poisons suck? lol

[Proven_Paradox]

Pretty much. Most enemies that aren't flat out immune have fort saves so high they can season their meals with poisons you'd reasonably have access.

[sonofzeal]

Alirght, so basically at lvl 12 poisons suck? lol
Basically, at any level poisons sucks. They're far too expensive, far too low DC, and (with a few exceptions) don't do anything nearly as nasty as you'd really like poisons to do, if you're using them as a major combat technique.

Seriously, I misread this thread title as "Psions, an assassin's best friend" and was thinking that was an unusual but potentially intriguing and powerful idea. Then I read it again and... yeah, no.

I'm willing to bet there's some awesome houserules though.

[sanji77]

ya sry sonofzeal. i thought that maybe poisons were good. apparantly i was horribly off

[Mushroom Ninja]

Poisons are great (at low-mid levels) for DMs who want to give the PCs as little loot as possible.

[sonofzeal]

ya sry sonofzeal. i thought that maybe poisons were good. apparantly i was horribly off
Eh, it's a common mistake. People think they work like they do in real life, whereas even the nasty ones are mostly just an inconvenience unless you get dosed multiple times and fail all your saves.

Drow poison's worth using though, at least. Cheap, and nasty.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Actually...

It can depend on how you are getting the poisons.

A level one shaper using Psionic Minor Creation to create Black Lotus Extract...that stuff, especially in high quantities, is NASTY at low levels.

[sanji77]

but like i said im at lvl 12 so i dont think any poisons would be that good

[Sinfire Titan]

Eh, it's a common mistake. People think they work like they do in real life, whereas even the nasty ones are mostly just an inconvenience unless you get dosed multiple times and fail all your saves.

Drow poison's worth using though, at least. Cheap, and nasty.

The best poison is in Sandstorm (Crystal Scorpion Poison). Expensive, but Shadow Conjeration>Minor Creation wins.

[Lycanthromancer]

Psions would, indeed, be an assassin's best friend. Shapers especially. Warforged swordsage using his best friend's psionic minor creation and black lotus extract?

Divide and conquer. Swim and assassinate.

[Thrawn183]

but like i said im at lvl 12 so i dont think any poisons would be that good

Part of this is effort. A Colossal Monstrous Scorpion is a CR 12. At this point it would make sense to encounter one, if you were trying to find it. The spiders and centipedes are lower CR so they aren't even an issue. Can you get your DM to throw some of these creatures at you by in character searching for them?

[faceroll]

Poisons are great (at low-mid levels) for DMs who want to give the PCs as little loot as possible.

Ugh, having mundanes throw out save-or-dies or save-or-lose really hard every round is brutal.

[Kaiyanwang]

There are ambush feats that can increase the DC up to 7 and decrease the save up to 4.

[Zen Master]

There is only one problem with poisons: For the good ones you need to rely on your GM. Because as presented in the rules, they just don't work. At any level, you are unlikely to have an poison that will do anything really interesting to an enemy.

The way it works in my group is - the GM will supply any character who wants to use poison with a few powerful ones. Weaker ones are all but free of charge, and created by the character.

That way, powerful poisons becomes something you treasure, and use rarely but when fitting.

[quiet1mi]

My favorite solution is to lower your opponent's saves...

-2 Sickened from Brutal Strike
-2 Shaken from Demoralize (Imperious Command)

-4 from two separate Aura of despairs
-2 from Dark companion (Hexblade)
-2 from Hexblade curse (Again Hexblade)

Grand total... -12 to all saves... at level 12, turning Drow poison from a measly DC 13 to an effective DC 25 Fort check per injury... I am sure that we could use a different poison but this character (LE blackguard) usually has to take people alive for questioning and debt collection.

[kamikasei]

Psions would, indeed, be an assassin's best friend. Shapers especially.

Actually I think you'll find it's telepaths who are everyone's best friends. If they want to be.

[Calimehter]

One could argue that, at level 12, you are getting to the point where everything short of full casters "suck", not just poisons. :smalltongue:

Even at that level, the stronger poisons can be fun things to give to lower level opponents. Keeps the treasure from piling up (as any expendable would) and keeps the PCs from ignoring them for too long just in case they end up rolling that really low save.

[ericgrau]

Ever think of simply buying and using your poisons before level 12? I don't think even the assassin class relies on poison use to be good, so it's not like you can do anything that will shoot yourself in the foot later.


Alright. So how do i craft it, where can i find a list of the available poisons, and can i buy it??

You buy them on the black market, as they tend to be illegal. In spite of their rep here poisons are awesome on the basis of action economy. You get the poison effect and you do just as much damage as you did before. The save DCs on the cheap poisons are low with good reason; after enough attacks someone is bound to roll low on a save. Drow knockout poison is famously good for a fast acting poison. Still, poisons do have a sweet spot at mid levels when they are affordable yet enemies can still fail their save.

There are also a lot of cheap poisons with higher DCs and good secondary damage, to extend the sweet spot. For these you need a lot of party coordination to poison your targets a couple times then flee until the secondary damage takes effect. You can't always talk your buddies into doing this unless you're a party full of assassins, and so there's another reason poisons get a bad rep.

Here's a list of poisons and related rules:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison

[JaronK]

Poison is still workable at 12... if you can get it cheap. Minor Creation will do it for plant based poisons, and that's all you need, as there's Black Lotus Poison (3d6 con/3d6 con, DC 20) and another poison somewhere that's also plant based and IIRC 2d6 con/2d6 con DC 26. But those DCs aren't high enough. Luckily, the Assassination weapon property (+1 equivalent, adds your weapon's enhancement bonus to any poison DCs delivered by the weapon, as well as +1d6 sneak attack) helps a ton when combined with a Tooth of Leraje (Caster level 20 Greater Magic Weapon, once per day, thus making any one weapon a +5 weapon). Now throw in Sickening Strike and Terrifying Strike, giving that second poison an effective DC of 35. Finally, combine it with archery, preferably a splitting bow, and you can get a lot of poisoned hits one after the other. Something's bound to land, and since both do Con damage, after a successful hit the rest will land more easily.

JaronK