Why exactly was Durkon banished again?

[paladinofshojo]

Didn't the prophecy state that the next time Durkon RETURNED home he would bring death and destruction? So wouldn't it have been more prudent to put him under house arrest so he couldn't actually "return"?

[Besyanteo]

I misread the first sentence and my whole perception of the question was tainted. Sorry about that. :smallfrown:

[paladinofshojo]

I misread the first sentence and my whole perception of the question was tainted. Sorry about that. :smallfrown:

It happens to the best of us buddy.....it happens to the best of us :smallsigh:

[Nibelung]

Origins spoiler

If they put him in the jail, he eventually would escape and would return at any time for revenge, penitence, or just to see his relatives. If they sent him in an eternal mission, then he never would come back, since he promissed to never return until he was called back to home.

I call BS on this, but the reason is fine and logical.

[Zevox]

The High Priest of Thor explained it this way in OtOoPCs:

"He would have left home eventually, to get food or visit his uncle. Even if he was imprisoned, he'd eventually escape and then disaster would surely follow. But I know the lad. He's so Lawful, if I command him to stay away until I send fer him, he will - even if it means spendin' the rest o' his life exiled!"

Zevox

[paladinofshojo]

Origins spoiler

If they put him in the jail, he eventually would escape and would return at any time for revenge, penitence, or just to see his relatives. If they sent him in an eternal mission, then he never would come back, since he promissed to never return until he was called back to home.

I call BS on this, but the reason is fine and logical.



Okay, let's just say that Durkon wasn't someone who took honour to a logical absurd...Do you really think it's safe to put the fate of an entire civilization on whether or not one guy just happens to walk into a specific location?

[paladinofshojo]

The High Priest of Thor explained it this way in OtOoPCs:

"He would have left home eventually, to get food or visit his uncle. Even if he was imprisoned, he'd eventually escape and then disaster would surely follow. But I know the lad. He's so Lawful, if I command him to stay away until I send fer him, he will - even if it means spendin' the rest o' his life exiled!"

Zevox


Ahhh that makes sense, I thought the prophecy meant that he shouldn't leave the dwarven lands...But why didn't the High Priest just make Durkon move to a different house? You know just use the old "We have to build a bypass and your house is in the way" trick?

[Porthos]

Ahhh that makes sense, I thought the prophecy meant that he shouldn't leave the dwarven lands...But why didn't the High Priest just make Durkon move to a different house? You know just use the old "We have to build a bypass and your house is in the way" trick?

Self. Fulfilling. Prophcey. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfFulfillingProphecy)

Really, those three words say it all.

...

In fact, those words say it all so much that the dwarves even point out the fact that what they're doing is risky.

Course being dwarves they think about it for a few seconds and then go out and grab some more beer. :smalltongue:

[paladinofshojo]

Self. Fulfilling. Prophcey. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfFulfillingProphecy)

Really, those three words say it all.

...

In fact, those words say it all so much that the dwarves even point out the fact that what they're doing is risky.

Course being dwarves they think about it for a few seconds and then go out and grab some more beer. :smalltongue:


But instead of having Durkon in a place where they can keep a close-watch on him, it is less likely to cause the prophecy from being fulfilled by having him roam around unchecked?

[Shale]

If they keep him under watch, they have to stop him from doing what he would naturally want to do (go someplace else, then come back eventually) for the rest of his life. One lapse on their part and the prophecy gets fulfilled. If they send him away, they can rely on his own Lawful nature to keep him away forever. Since he won't try to fight it in that case, they don't need to keep watch on him at all.

[Cute_Riolu]

My theory:


In the dwarven homelands is one of (or a new) rift of the snarl. In the OOTS' quest, they MUST return there, and, well... I'm sure you can figure out the rest on your own.

[BenTheJester]

Okay, let's just say that Durkon wasn't someone who took honour to a logical absurd...Do you really think it's safe to put the fate of an entire civilization on whether or not one guy just happens to walk into a specific location?

He's a dwarf.

[Porthos]

But instead of having Durkon in a place where they can keep a close-watch on him, it is less likely to cause the prophecy from being fulfilled by having him roam around unchecked?

You miss my point, I think. :smallsmile: Rich wanted to write a situation involving a Self Fullfilling Prophcey. SFP's, by definition (or at least by one definiton), are ones in where the person who tries to avert a prophcey from happening, causes it to happen by his attempts to stop it.

So, yes, the dwarves could have stopped the prophcey from happening by locking Durkon in a room, or something....

... But then it wouldn't have been a Self Fullfilling Prophecy, now would it? :smallbiggrin:

Which is, kinda the whole point. :smallsmile:

[factotum]

The High Priest of Thor clearly misinterpreted the prophecy. It meant when Durkon returned to the home of all dwarves, but he interpreted it as meaning when Durkon returned to his own home. Which just goes to show that the High Priest of Thor wasn't the brightest candle in the box... :smallsmile:

[Degnared]

And, given the Oracle's prophesy, the High Priest apparently hadn't considered that someone might go and bring Durkon's corpse home, lawful dwarf or no.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Ahhh that makes sense, I thought the prophecy meant that he shouldn't leave the dwarven lands...But why didn't the High Priest just make Durkon move to a different house? You know just use the old "We have to build a bypass and your house is in the way" trick?
Then the new house would be his home, wouldn't it?

[Degnared]

Then the new house would be his home, wouldn't it?

Then, theoretically, if he settled down in human lands, he could have made a home to which he could return and bring doom and destruction, etc.

[Math_Mage]

Then, theoretically, if he settled down in human lands, he could have made a home to which he could return and bring doom and destruction, etc.

And it would be Somebody Else's Problem. :smalltongue:

[Degnared]

And it would be Somebody Else's Problem. :smalltongue:

Odin's High Priest said the death and destruction was for "us all" presumably meaning the dwarves. Wouldn't that just suck for the dwarves, too? Random death and destruction when Durkon returned from the market for the first time in his new home in the middle of Nowhere.

[FoE]

Well, the safest thing would have been to kill him, disintegrate the corpse, trap his soul in a gem and drop it into the deepest pit you could find. But that wouldn't exactly be Lawful Good, now would it?

[Bogardan_Mage]

Then, theoretically, if he settled down in human lands, he could have made a home to which he could return and bring doom and destruction, etc.
But he didn't. I'm not sure if that was by design or a happy accident, but by sending him on an indefinite mission the High Priest garunteed that he would always think of the Dwarven lands as his true home, and anywhere he might live in the meantime to be merely temporary. This would not be the case if he was merely forced to move to a different house.

[Ancalagon]

Screwing with prophecys is always a bad idea. And if you don't do anything, it's also a bad idea.

Self-fullfilling or not: it's a prophecy and in a story, it'd be boring if you did the "right" thing which turns it into a red herring. ;)

[Souhiro]

Well, it was said in a Wiki, that the safest thing to do would have been telling him the truth. Durkon, so Lawful and Good, would never return to his homelands, never would try to do, and would do that sacrifice for his home.

But hey, this is a comic, if all the characters would do continuously the correct thing to do (P.E. RedCloak mother keeps virgin) there would have not any adventure.

[salinan]

Then, theoretically, if he settled down in human lands, he could have made a home to which he could return and bring doom and destruction, etc.
'Home', for Durkon, will always be the dwarven lands. Consider his reaction to the oracular prophecy that he will finally return home when he dies - he clearly does still think of it as home.

[Dr.Epic]

Didn't the prophecy state that the next time Durkon RETURNED home he would bring death and destruction? So wouldn't it have been more prudent to put him under house arrest so he couldn't actually "return"?

That exact comment was brought up in Origins of PCs. The high Priest of Thor feels that at some point no matter what Durkon would have had to leave home. By giving him a bogus mission with no return date the high priest thought he would get ride of the little guy forever.

[Asta Kask]

Which shows why it would be good to have a Priest type that needed high Intelligence... :smallsmile:

[DukeGod]

on that case exactly he was a "High" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun) Priest

[SaintRidley]

Which shows why it would be good to have a Priest type that needed high Intelligence... :smallsmile:

Do Archivists count as close to that mark?

[Trixie]

Well, it was said in a Wiki, that the safest thing to do would have been telling him the truth. Durkon, so Lawful and Good, would never return to his homelands, never would try to do, and would do that sacrifice for his home.

This. Or tell him Thor wants him to never leave house arrest, ensuing he will keep himself jailed by his own will.


Do Archivists count as close to that mark?

No, anyone who can think, isn't superstitious, zealot, can use logic and has proper reasoning powers is obviously evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DumbIsGood).

[zoobob9]

They knew that he would eventually leave and come back, like visiting an uncle i think was an example, so they just sent him away prematurely.

[Cleverdan22]

Honestly, if they had just told him the prophecy in the first place, considering he is REALLY lawful, he probably would have decided to not be buried in his homeland and stay out of it forever, no matter how much personal grief it caused him.

[Ancalagon]

If they had told him, he would have never left and thus never have "come back". The other option would not have worked... Durkon would be in the SAME situation he is now and as he would know what the destruction is that comes (Xykon in search for the dwarven gate) he'd go anyway. Because he knew (think!) that this destruction is not tied to him returning, but to Xykon going there.

So, no matter what, the High Priest now made the "Prophecy" possible ("Durkon comes back, Death and Destruction follow") - but that has nothing to do with the fact that "Death and Destruction will/would come anyway".

It's assumed that "Durkon returning is the REASON for Death and Destruction (D&D)" which is in fact not true. It's a relation of time and not one of causality.

[Conuly]

Of course, if Durkon is so lawful as to not to return home just because he's told not to return home...

why assume he'd escape if imprisoned, or leave home to get food? Why not just tell him never to leave his home again because of the prophecy?

[Watcher]

The thread's title should have spoiler warnings. A newcomer might not know he was banished.

[Morquard]

The thread's title should have spoiler warnings. A newcomer might not know he was banished.

Before the Azure Battle Miko was sent to the dwarfen lands to see if Durkon can return again. So yes, anyone who read the webcomic should know about it.
And anyone who's not past #300 or so shouldn't complain about spoilers on the forum.

[PallElendro]

I have a perfect thing! Durkon was sent because he would bring death and destruction, and those two assassins from No Cure for Pally Blues were once on a mission to kill the High Priest, a "Durkon" bringing death and destruction. However, it was another dwarf to bring them destruction, meaning the prophecy either hasn't happened yet, or that was it, a dwarf bringing death and destruction...