I need a Crazy Plan (3.5)

[Cisturn]

Ok Playgrounders I need your help, my level three party is up against a Level Nine Orc Frenzied Berserker/Battle Howler of Gruumsh, his strength, dexterity, and constitution are off the charts, and he wields a two bladed ax, one side does wounding damage and the other boosts his AC. He wears spell resistance 15 full plate that pushes his AC to about 30 and he over 100 hit points. He also as the Die Hard feat, which means he instantly stabilizes and won't lose consciousness if we knock him into negatives. The bottom line is no one from my party can stand against him in open combat for more than a couple rounds so we're going to have to get creative.

My Party:
Cleric 3, with the Saint Template, Protection/Destruction domain, 27 AC high charisma and constitution.
Half Gold Dragon Sorcerer 3- has a breath weapon, flight, and good strength
Fighter 3 - Your typical fighter goods strength and dex
Bard 3 (Pixie) - has greater invisiabilty at will and is basically a buffer.
Hexblade 3 - Chaotic Evil, but fun
Rogue 3 - Female Elf, New to the game still kinda shaky to the rules.

Where Fighting on the edge of an Elven Forest, there's a makeshift camp, and an abandoned Goblin Cave, I've been turning this battle over and over in my mind but i cant think of a way to win, does anyone out there have any ideas?

[JoshuaZ]

Have you tried talking to him? When in doubt go for diplomacy. If you know that won't work try setting up helpful traps and see if you can make sure the fight occurs exactly where you want it to.

Also, why do you know the exact stats of what your up against? That's weird.

[Pluto]

1. Don't fight him. Use words.

2. Manipulate your social/political situation so that if he attacks you, he invites the wrath of someone/something even scarier.

3. Don't fight fair. Get him in a place where the environment and surroundings work in your favor. (Forcing balance checks is ideal.)

4. Stay out of reach and throw stuff.

[Olo Demonsbane]

...Why are your players so disproportionate in levels?

You have an ECL 7, an ECL 6, an ECL 5, and 3 ECL 3s.

Or CR 7, CR 5, CR 4, and 3 CR 3s.

Actually...these characters form the equivilant of slightly above a CR 9 encounter themselves...they might be able to handle this guy without a Crazy Plan.

[The Glyphstone]

5. Club your DM over the head with his own books until he stops being a jerk. A CR9 encounter is beyond the 'overpowering, death certain' level of CR scaling. That armor alone is 50% more expensive than the maximum total value of a level 9 NPC, not to mention the Wounding/Defending double axe that sends his cash completely off the charts. And while we're at it, he doesn't have any base class levels, just PrC levels?


EDIT: I didn't notice the odd templates and races. That makes it slightly easier, but the same deal applies...this is way too much.


EDIT 2: Make sure your Sorcerer has Grease known as a spell, or buy him a huge pile of Grease scrolls. Wait till the FB Frenzies, then Grease his square...he literally cannot escape by any means, since he can't make Balance checks while Frenzied. Pincushion him at range.

[Studoku]

I'm going to ignore all the odd mechanical stuff and focus on the crazy plan.

Personally, I'd go with digging a pit trap (concealed mundanely or magically) and having the pixie taunt him so he attacks, moves over the trap and falls in.

Just make sure he doesn't climb out while you kill him.

[Pluto]

EDIT 2: Make sure your Sorcerer has Grease known as a spell, or buy him a huge pile of Grease scrolls. Wait till the FB Frenzies, then Grease his square...he literally cannot escape by any means, since he can't make Balance checks while Frenzied. Pincushion him at range.
If you do this, be sure to have a backup plan.
Some DMs won't let their badass villains go down to a footnote on a first level ability.

[Cisturn]

i have a 16 diplomacy, unfortunately he's already mid-rage when he lands, so diplomacy probably wont work, it is a thought though, would Calm Emotions help nullify rage so i could talk to him?

[Occasional Sage]

Stay mobile and out of reach; if he has to keep moving, he doesn't get Full Attacks. His attacks may be stronger, but you have many more actions than he does. Use Withdraw actions to get away from him safely and heal up, while other people harry him. Cycle opponents so that he's always facing a fresh foe and is being worn down.

If he closes in a way you can't prevent, mob him and knock him off his feet. He'll either be fighting Prone with the to-hit and AC penalties to contend with, or he'll have to stand and provoke an AoO from anybody close to him. The aforementioned Grease is good for that, but he does always have the option of crawling out (and thus provoking more AoO).

[DementedFellow]

Color Spray will most likely work on the barbarian. He will be stunned for 1 round. Being stunned causes him to drop his weapon, and suddenly he is open for sneak attack damage.

Spontaneous caster comes in and color sprays. Rogue sneak attacks from afar. Cleric wails on him. The pixie comes by and takes the axe and goes invisible.

Without his fancy weapon, cleric should be able to do the heavy lifting thanks to buffs and decent AC.

Nevermind Color Spray allows SR.

[Asheram]

You need two halflings, a copper bathtub, a wand of lightning and half a goat.





...Naw. But a couple of questions.

1. Did you ignore LA when making those characters?

2. Why is such a bad-ass orc after you?

3. Have you checked the goblin cave for another exit?

4. Use Pixie on Orc. See if he can lure him away from the rest of the group with some illusion spells.

[Illven]

Have most of the party hide, while the pixie uses greater invisability to shoot at the orc with a ranged weapon, without fast healing, the orc will die eventually

[DementedFellow]

The idea of a Pixie taking down a overpowered barbarian makes me giggle.

[Illven]

The idea of a Pixie taking down a overpowered barbarian makes me giggle.

And yet unless the Barbarian has ranks in spot, or an item of flight/ranged, and see invisability/true seeing it should work

[Cisturn]

1. Did you ignore LA when making those characters?

Yes.

2. Why is such a bad-ass orc after you?

We haven't been told why yet, but he's supposed to be the first thread of the actual plot of the campaign.

3. Have you checked the goblin cave for another exit?

Yes but our rogue is kinda sucky

[Illven]

1. Did you ignore LA when making those characters?

Yes.

2. Why is such a bad-ass orc after you?

We haven't been told why yet, but he's supposed to be the first thread of the actual plot of the campaign.

3. Have you checked the goblin cave for another exit?

Yes but our rogue is kinda sucky

Do you know more about the orc

[Lycanthromancer]

Grease, grease, grease. You may also want to look into web, (coupled with a source of fire), glitterdust, pyrotechnics, (I'd suggest gust of wind, ray of enfeeblement, and touch of idiocy/spectral hand, but they're SR: Yes), a wand of acid arrow (it's SR: No and a touch attack on someone who's been greased), summon swarm, dispel magic/shatter (dispel his armor then go to town), and similar things.

Also, dust of sneezing and choking will put him down (no SR, no save, no defenses at all) while you whale on him [sic] (preferably literally, if you can manage it).

[Occasional Sage]

The idea of a Pixie taking down a overpowered barbarian makes me giggle.

Me three! :smallbiggrin:

Although the pixie (invisible but just "careless" enough to be followed) could lead the raging barbarian to where everybody is sitting in trees with bows. I can't imagine a raging barbarian running away; he'd probably try to chop a tree down to get to you, or climb up (good luck using that double axe in a tree!).

[Cisturn]

Do you know more about the orc

Actually yeah, can't believe i forgot to mention this before the name of the campaign is called "Elemental Doom" the orc is a part of the Air Elemental Forces, so he may be weak to earth spells.

Also with us is a small cadre of level 5 soldiers, that we are supposed to use as a sacrifice in order to get more help. The Cadre is anywhere from 12-20 who do take orders from the cleric (only because he's a noble in the kingdom) I'm sorry for not mentioning this earlier, i'm not sure how it slipped my mind

[Illven]

Actually yeah, can't believe i forgot to mention this before the name of the campaign is called "Elemental Doom" the orc is a part of the Air Elemental Forces, so he may be weak to earth spells.

Also with us is a small cadre of level 5 soldiers, that we are supposed to use as a sacrifice in order to get more help. The Cadre is anywhere from 12-20 who do take orders from the cleric (only because he's a noble in the kingdom) I'm sorry for not mentioning this earlier, i'm not sure how it slipped my mind

Do you know his feats, skills, other magic items

[Lycanthromancer]

Actually yeah, can't believe i forgot to mention this before the name of the campaign is called "Elemental Doom" the orc is a part of the Air Elemental Forces, so he may be weak to earth spells.

Also with us is a small cadre of level 5 soldiers, that we are supposed to use as a sacrifice in order to get more help. The Cadre is anywhere from 12-20 who do take orders from the cleric (only because he's a noble in the kingdom) I'm sorry for not mentioning this earlier, i'm not sure how it slipped my mindHave the sorcerer cast grease on the ground under him, then have everyone stay out of charging range while firing arrows. Next round, the sorcerer casts pyrotechnics (blinding version) on him from a bullseye lantern (to protect your side from being blinded), repeating pyrotechnics again if it fails the first time, then grease, then a summon swarm (bats) or a few acid arrows, then grease ad infinitum (or at least as long as it takes for the sorcerer to run out of spells or the FB to run out of HP.

Alternately, toss on the amnesia dust dust of sneezing and choking and pelt him with a summon swarm and a hail of arrows.

[Cisturn]

Do you know his feats, skills, other magic items

probably only the one's of mentioned, spell resistant armor, the axe, the Die Hard feat, which i guess means he had the Endurance feat too, as for magical items thats all i have been told though he is sure to have more

[Illven]

Well I go for a combantion of the grease and the taking potshots at him with the pixie

[DementedFellow]

Is Spell Compendium allowed?

[Cisturn]

Is Spell Compendium allowed?

sure, i think so

[DementedFellow]

Okay, Here goes.

Barbarian is assumed to be stuck in greased area until spell ends.

Round 1
Pixie uses grease. Grease will last for 3 rounds.
Hexblade uses curse. If it suceeds -2 on attack rolls and stuff. (nice)
Fighter uses ranged weapon on Barbarian.
Rogue uses ranged weapon (does Sneak Attack apply?).
Sorcerer uses breath attack.
Cleric casts Shield of Faith.

Round 2
Pixie starts to Inspire Courage.
Hexblade uses ranged weapon.
Fighter uses ranged weapon.
Rogue uses ranged weapon.
Sorcerer uses Hail of stone (3d4 damage).
Cleric casts Lesser Vigor on self.

Round 3
Pixie continues to Inspire Courage.
Hexblade uses ranged weapon.
Fighter uses ranged weapon.
Rogue uses ranged weapon.
Sorcerer casts Enlarge Person on Cleric.
Cleric casts Balor Nimbus on self (6d6 on grapple partner per round).

Round 4
Grease is expired.
Pixie, Hexblade, Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer run away.
Cleric goads Barbarian into fighting. Cleric initiates grapple.



How does this sound?

[kemmotar]

grease for starters.

If you have any way of getting through the SR (probably not, but anyway) calm emotions will give you a serious advantage since it will end both rage and frenzy.

Since you said that he just lands in front of you mid rage traps are out and luring him to a prepared place is also out. So it depends on what spells and resources you have available.

If for some reason your DM decides that the orc is unaffected by the grease, or at least he gets out of it somehow, you might wanna run, set it up so the cleric takes most hits while you run away and the pixie buffs him up.

You can also use web in conjunction with the sorc's breath weapon, since he's half gold dragon he probably has a fire breath weapon (if I remember my MM correctly).

The best direction to run away to in case it all goes south is probably up. You can use grease to buy time, the pixie probably can't carry anyone but he can probably aid the fighter and cleric in climbing trees while the sorc can fly the hexblade and rogue (who are also presumably lighter so won't give the sorc a problem str wise).

The problem is, he might try to cut down the trees...and might actually succeed...depends on the trees I guess...

In any case, looks like grease-nuke, rinse and repeat is your best choice. Along with calm emotions if you can bypass his SR. Assay spell resistance seems like a good idea right about now, but I think we can rule that out given your level.

Also one question...why isn't the pixie a rogue? At will gr. invisibility and massive dex bonus...

[Farlion]

Half Gold Dragon Sorcerer 3- has a breath weapon, flight, and good strength



The Barbarian doesn't seem to have a ranged weapon or am I wrong?

Since there is a cave, there must be some kind of mountain?

Fly everyone to safety and kill him from the top?

Or am I missing something very important?


Cheers,
Farlion

[Chrono22]

Cast sanctuary on yourself. Spam hold person.

Your allies can dispatch him when he finally fails his save.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If there's a cave, is there a cliff? Dropping heavy objects from high above has quite a bit of potential, around 20d6 per hit if you do it right (DMG page 303). There's also the possibility of getting him to chase someone, make sure there's an incline going downhill toward the edge of a cliff or pit of some sort, and cast Grease.

[kemmotar]

Cast sanctuary on yourself. Spam hold person.

Your allies can dispatch him when he finally fails his save.

Depending on stats they might or might not be able to beat his SR and simultaneous casting of calm emotions and hold person might break through, then you hope that he fails a will save. But I think in this case a successful calm emotions might benefit them more than a successful hold person since when grease ends they'll wish they'd been casting calm emotions.

Of course, in this case hold person isn't a reliable source of immobilization since the enemy is level 9 while the part is level 3. It's logical to assume he'll be making his saves more often than not. Grease should take care of him and if the sorc readies an action to cast it under the FB while he's charging, it should give him a sufficient penalty to his reflex save to increase the chances that he'll fail quite a bit. I think the next logical step is to debuff him to hell and back with calm emotions. In the meantime buff up the main tank aka cleric, blur, shield of faith, (perhaps sanctuary isn't a good idea since if he fails his save he won't be able to attack the caster for the duration of the spell almost guaranteeing him to switch targets) whatever you're prepared and can cast while he's caught in the grease.

If you manage to keep him immobilized long enough for calm emotions and enough buffs on your side he shouldn't present any problems, I guess.

[Critical]

Get Marbles. (Arms & Equipment)

[DementedFellow]

First a pixie and now marbles. LOL.:smallbiggrin:

Are we going to have the barbarian chase the adventurers in a Scooby Doo-esque hallway? :smallamused:

[herrhauptmann]

Cleric 3, with the Saint Template, Protection/Destruction domain, 27 AC high charisma and constitution.
Half Gold Dragon Sorcerer 3- has a breath weapon, flight, and good strength
Fighter 3 - Your typical fighter goods strength and dex
Bard 3 (Pixie) - has greater invisiabilty at will and is basically a buffer.
Hexblade 3 - Chaotic Evil, but fun
Rogue 3 - Female Elf, New to the game still kinda shaky to the rules.

Where Fighting on the edge of an Elven Forest, there's a makeshift camp, and an abandoned Goblin Cave, I've been turning this battle over and over in my mind but i cant think of a way to win, does anyone out there have any ideas?

I pity the characters who don't have huge LA races. A typical fighter trying to run alongside a pixie rogue and a half dragon sorc is painful.
Why did your DM ignore LA?

Use grease. Then when you finally kill him, piss the DM off by using his overpowered equipment.

[Goonthegoof]

How about Rocks Fall Everyone Dies? You're in a cave, try blowing up the ceiling above him and crushing him to death :smallbiggrin:

[Occasional Sage]

Round 4
Grease is expired.
Pixie, Hexblade, Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer run away.
Cleric goads Barbarian into fighting. Cleric initiates grapple.


At this point, why not move in close? A prone, flanked barbarian is a very, very dead barbarian. He can only fix the prone problem by taking four AoO.

[DementedFellow]

At this point, why not move in close? A prone, flanked barbarian is a very, very dead barbarian. He can only fix the prone problem by taking four AoO.

I was fuzzy when the Barbarian would be getting up. And I decided that it may be safer for all those involved to just run away and let the cleric handle it as the cleric has been buffing up for the upcoming fight and the sorcerer or rogue doesn't need to be in the line of fire.

[Anxe]

Just keep him away from you until his frenzy runs out. Giving everyone an expeditious retreat before the battle oughta do this.

[Lysander]

Just keep him away from you until his frenzy runs out. Giving everyone an expeditious retreat before the battle oughta do this.

Or even better, just run away. How about having the sorcerer create an illusion of a formidable looking opponent to distract him, then just book it while he's occupied.

[Lycanthromancer]

Assuming no grease, pyrotechnics, lard, marbles, caltrops, or dust of sneezing and choking, maybe you should just avoid the encounter altogether. If the DM says you need to do it, refuse and say that he obviously doesn't want you going in since he's putting you up against certain death.

If all else fails, just send the invisible pixie in to do whatever needs done while everyone else gives moral support from the nearest tavern.

[Asheram]

If the DM says you need to do it, refuse and say that he obviously doesn't want you going in since he's putting you up against certain death.

True. There is the possibility that he's honestly trying to kill off your party without making it look too obvious.

[saltythetrain]

Alchemist's Fire and vials of acid. Vials are light enough that the pixie could carry a huge load and just drop them on the barbarian until he's dead.

[Flickerdart]

Remember, also, that you need to win initiative. Nerveskitter (SC) is good for this. Cat's Grace would help too, if you had it (see about scrolls/potions).

[Cisturn]

the DM isn't trying to kill us off, at least not yet, he's just trying to make us run, i still want to try to take out the orc though

[Lycanthromancer]

the DM isn't trying to kill us off, at least not yet, he's just trying to make us run, i still want to try to take out the orc thoughGotten any ideas here that strike your fancy, yet?

[Occasional Sage]

So when's the next session? I want details!

Also, as Lycanthromancer asks, have any ideas sparked? Once there's a base ot work from, more bits can get stuck to it.

[Cisturn]

So when's the next session? I want details!

Also, as Lycanthromancer asks, have any ideas sparked? Once there's a base ot work from, more bits can get stuck to it.

we meet tomorrow, so i'll be able to update then. At the moment i'd like to have the pixie goad the orc into chasing her into one of the rooms of the goblin cave where the rest of the party will we waiting. After he runs the half dragon should cast grease, and then the rest of the party can attack him at range, and hopefully collapse the roof in on him...once the party gets to a safe distance that is

[Lycanthromancer]

we meet tomorrow, so i'll be able to update then. At the moment i'd like to have the pixie goad the orc into chasing her into one of the rooms of the goblin cave where the rest of the party will we waiting. After he runs the half dragon should cast grease, and then the rest of the party can attack him at range, and hopefully collapse the roof in on him...once the party gets to a safe distance that isKnocking out uber-builds with 1st-level spells is fun!

[Cisturn]

ok guys so we had our session tonight, before we fought the orc, we had to finish off the remaining goblins in their stronghold. They were set up with three gobbo archers on parapets to either side, there front line was four goblins riding wolves and behind him was there big bad leader with clerics to either side buffing him. The weird thing was there was a strange anti-magic barrier that covered the front of the field.

we started by having the pixie drop some oil and alchemists fire while the rest of us attacked from range. The Half Dragon also took to air and was doing some damage. We had our cadre of seven level five fighters take on one wing of archers while our Pixie bard and Rogue Elf took out the other. Meanwhile the Cleric, Hexblade, and Fighter took on the front line.

We worked our way through though admittedly the Hexblade and the Fighter did more damage to each other than anything else (accidentally that is, well at least somewhat) The Hexblade who's playing chaotic evil in all it's majesty at one point had his hair set on fire and decided to let it burn because he liked the bonus to intimidate checks.

Eventually we turned the tide, breaking the anti-magic field the Half-Dragon burned the goblin clerics beyond recognition. The Gobbo boss was knocked down by the pixie (he was missing a leg by that point) and coup de grace'd by the cleric. The last surviving Goblin looked up to the sky and shouted for help in his native tongue.

Within a few rounds a Rage filled Orc fell from the sky. In his first round he great cleaved through 6 of our 7 NPC fighters. I told the Half Dragon to cast to cast grease, but we found out that the Orc had perfect flight due to some half air elemental bonus. :smalleek:

He then bellowed to begone, "Tell your king that the orcs have declared war, and we will crush you with our new found might we discussed several strategies on how to defeat him, but with no caves to trap him, or any other spells that could break through his SR we take off. I'm sorry about the anti-climatic ending but we really couldn't stand up to anything he could dish out. The Pixie and the Hexblade were down to about half health, and the Rogue was in the single digits. The Cleric could have stood up to him but after the Orc shirked off a "Calm Emotions" spell we were kinda out of options.

Next week should be fun too, were supposed to fight a party that's specifically designed to kill us if we can't work together. So far we know about a Fire-Evil Cleric who's made to defeat the Cleric and a Leprechaun that wields a cold iron shortsword that supposed to take out the Pixie. I dont know anything yet about the other two anti-party members, though one's designed to take out the Half Dragon and Fighter, and the other to kill the Rogue and Hexblade respectively. It should be fun and I'll let you guys know how it turns out if anyone's interested.

[Dr.Epic]

Flesh to Stone or does that have a fort save? He'd probably have a killer fort save.

[Cisturn]

Flesh to Stone or does that have a fort save? He'd probably have a killer fort save.

flesh to stone is why above our caster level too

[Lycanthromancer]

DM railroad-city.

Also, you should've blinded him with pyrotechnics.

[krossbow]

Make a rubics cube and cover it with TONS of exploding rune spells.

Throw cube at orc.

Cast dispel magic and intentionally fail check.

Watch as every single exploding rune spell detonates.




Edit: ah, i'm late to suggestions i see. Anyways, ask the Dm if you can at least be upgraded to a first class car since your obviously riding a railroad.

[Dr.Epic]

flesh to stone is why above our caster level too

Crap you're right. What illusion spells do you have? I can't imagine the Frenzied Berserkers will save would be too high.

[Sharkman1231]

1: Steal Underwear
2: ?????????????
3: PROFIT!! ;-)

[Just_Ice]

I'm just going to assume diplomacy's out, so grease and fire is always a good start.

As others have mentioned, balance checks and fall damage are your friend. Depending on spells/breath weapon, you might be able to mess with his armour.

You might be able to sunder his axe, rendering him little more than a wall. Hopefully your fighter has improved sunder, or something.

There's always building siege weapons and whatnot as well.

Anyways, it's pretty clear from the half air-elemental thing (juuuuust read that) that this isn't even an optional challenge, so good luck with the next session.

[Lysander]

I have a feeling no matter what plan you come up with, this guy won't die until the time is right.

"Disintegrate!"
"Fools! I'm half dust elemental and immune to disintegrate!"
"Color spray!"
"Fools! I'm half rainbow elemental and immune to color spray!"
"Wait, I thought you were half orc and half dust elemental!"
"Fools! I have as many halves as needed!"

[Tinydwarfman]

Why is your DM not counting LA again? Does he just hate some of you? Or does he not know what LA does and you haven't been inclined to tell him because you like your races? I see no good reason for not counting it. Maybe lowering it, or allowing savage species racial levels and stuff, but not counting it at all? WHY?!?

[Cisturn]

I have a feeling no matter what plan you come up with, this guy won't die until the time is right.

"Disintegrate!"
"Fools! I'm half dust elemental and immune to disintegrate!"
"Color spray!"
"Fools! I'm half rainbow elemental and immune to color spray!"
"Wait, I thought you were half orc and half dust elemental!"
"Fools! I have as many halves as needed!"

thank you this made my day

[Cisturn]

Why is your DM not counting LA again? Does he just hate some of you? Or does he not know what LA does and you haven't been inclined to tell him because you like your races? I see no good reason for not counting it. Maybe lowering it, or allowing savage species racial levels and stuff, but not counting it at all? WHY?!?


Also it's not so much that the DM hates us, but that he let us make any kind of characters we wanted to so he could also have free reign when it came to making characters. So the three players who weren't new to the game, the Half Dragon, Cleric, and Pixie took templates. The didn't really care because he likes to munchkin our enemies. However since he realized that the other players who were new got the short end of the stick he's been trying to give each of their characters some kind of boost, through either greater xp gain, magical items, or what have you.

[Tinydwarfman]

Well they better get some kickass stuff then, because imo, having a saint cleric and a hexblade at the same level is going to get old fast for the hexblade,

[UhrwerkMikan]

Hexblade here, I can't really complain too much anymore. I've managed to get enough XP rewards for role playing that I'm a level above the party, I've got a +4 Cloak of Charisma, a Red Cap's Tooth, and a fair amount of gold for an enchanted weapon. Things are slowly becoming less ridiculous, and the DM is fairly good at crafting encounters that work with this crazy party.

[Tao the Ninja]

1. Did you ignore LA when making those characters?

Yes.



Get yourself killed, then build a solar or something. Without LA, this should work.

[Silly Wizard]

Does the sorcerer have like, teleport or dimension door? If so, you could have the sorcerer taunt him into the cave, cave it in, and have the sorcerer teleport out.

[Cisturn]

Things are slowly becoming less ridiculous, and the DM is fairly good at crafting encounters that work with this crazy party.

provided he remembers what exactly each of the party members can do that is. I think we would have probably lost the last battle if the DM hadn't started pulling his punches. And switching his focus from me to you.

[UhrwerkMikan]

I think we could have finished the battle...VRN wasn't hurting all that much, Epicstar was still doing alright, you had your armor back, the evil cleric was out of offensive spells, and we had some healing stuff. Sure, a few of us might not have made it, but it wasn't going kill all of us.

[_Zoot_]

1: Steal Underwear
2: ?????????????
3: PROFIT!! ;-)

I have team members that subscribe to your school of thought.....