Melee Optimization (Pathfinder)

[Krrth]

I've been asked by a friend to help him optimize a melee character for Pathfinder, but while I can do an ok job, I'm sure those here can help be do a better one.

The guidelines I was given:

25 point buy, physical stats high, ok to buy down mental stats.

Preferably a half-orc.

Only pathfinder material allowed.

The general idea is to be fast and hit hard. Surviving the melee is somewhat optional.

Any help and/or advice y'all can give is appreciated.

[9mm]

vital strike... take it and use it.
past that traditional fighter advise applies. if core only, I'd recomend trip+stand still.

[Cieyrin]

vital strike... take it and use it.
past that traditional fighter advise applies. if core only, I'd recomend trip+stand still.

Stand Still isn't Pathfinder, so that won't fly. Otherwise, yes, Vital Strike is awesome.

As for Pathfinder itself, do we mean just Final or is Beta still viable, as I personally liked the Overhand Chop chain for two-handed weapons.

Also, what level are we starting at here? 1st, higher? More details required.

[9mm]

Stand Still isn't Pathfinder, so that won't fly. Otherwise, yes, Vital Strike is awesome.

As for Pathfinder itself, do we mean just Final or is Beta still viable, as I personally liked the Overhand Chop chain for two-handed weapons.

Also, what level are we starting at here? 1st, higher? More details required.

Stand Still made it in the final version (p. 134), overhand chop, sadly did not.

[Gorbash]

While we're at it - I'm confused by the wording of Vital Strike, do you make one attack that deals more damage as a standard action, or while full attacking your first attack deals more damage?

[Cieyrin]

Stand Still made it in the final version (p. 134), overhand chop, sadly did not.

Hmm, shows how much I recall of Pathfinder. Now that I have my PDF open, I can see that I was wrong on Stand Still. The more you know...


While we're at it - I'm confused by the wording of Vital Strike, do you make one attack that deals more damage as a standard action, or while full attacking your first attack deals more damage?

You make one attack that deals more damage as a standard action. You can't combine it with a Full Attack, as you're sacrificing your additional attacks to deal more with one attack. It's basically a fix for the inability to full attack and move in the same round and to do it without Pouncing, which has the charge limitations.

[PinkysBrain]

Attack action is a standard action, otherwise it has to say "in place of a melee attack" or something similar.

PS. Pathfinder has abilities for non casters to get pounce? Where?

[imperialspectre]

Play an Oracle from the new Advanced Player's Guide. Pick the Battle mystery, specifically Skill At Arms (martial and heavy armor profs), Maneuver Mastery, Weapon Mastery, and Surprising Charge. Pick random cleric spells that make you better at beating things.

Have decent Charisma, but you only need 19 by level 18 because you don't care about save DCs. Put the rest of your stats in physical. Laugh maniacally when anyone tells you that fighters are better off in Pathfinder.

[PinkysBrain]

Or in other words, play a gish ... always good advice in D&D and Pathfinder didn't really fix the game enough to not make it good advice, rarely advice people want to hear though ;)

[tyckspoon]

While we're at it - I'm confused by the wording of Vital Strike, do you make one attack that deals more damage as a standard action, or while full attacking your first attack deals more damage?

Standard action. It's alright if you are restricted to a standard action, but you're going to do much more damage with an actual full attack.

Standard Half-Orc Bruiser, built Pathfinder style:
18 Strength (17 points)
16 Con (10 points)
12 Dex ( 2 points)
8 Int (sold down, +2 points)
10 Wis (base value)
8 Cha (sold down, +2 points)

Add the floating stat bump to Strength. You may recognize this as a normal 3.5 edition Half-Orc skeleton build, with the same stat mods. If you want to make more use of Combat Reflexes/Combat Expertise and the trees that depend on them you can take Strength down to base 16 for extra points.

Level 1, 2: Barbarian. Rage, Fast Movement, and take one of: Scent, Animal Fury, or Superstition as your rage power.

Level 3-6: Fighter. 3 feats and Armor Training allows you to maintain your full speed in a breastplate or suit of chainmail and eventual Mithral Full Plate.

Recommended feats: Step Up, Power Attack, Cleave, Extra Rage if you find yourself running out.

After that you can pretty much do whatever as long as you maintain full BAB. I don't find anything else in the Pathfinder feats or melee classes especially compelling; it's pretty much a tossup between Fighter's extra feats and Weapon Training against Barbarian's rage powers.

[Krrth]

Thanks folks! The character has 8 levels to play with, and unfortunately we're restricted to the printed books. If it's a current beta I should be able to get it in though. I just need to be able to point out where it's "official".

I've gotten some good ideas from the help you've given, and I do appreciate it. It's a work in progress, so any more advice given will be useful. Thanks again.