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Gorbash
2010-02-19, 03:55 PM
So, I'm running Savage Tide AP and we're nearing the end, maybe 3 sessions away from wrapping it up and I was wondering if it could be a good idea to throw it in there somewhere, just for fun. Since it's a campaign from 1-20th lvl they've seen it all (I think EVERY type of Demons), Dragons, Demon Lords, so in order to make it a wholesome D&D experieince I got the idea.

I know some people think it's' horrible, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-19, 04:06 PM
So, I'm running Savage Tide AP and we're nearing the end, maybe 3 sessions away from wrapping it up and I was wondering if it could be a good idea to throw it in there somewhere, just for fun. Since it's a campaign from 1-20th lvl they've seen it all (I think EVERY type of Demons), Dragons, Demon Lords, so in order to make it a wholesome D&D experieince I got the idea.

I know some people think it's' horrible, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

I'm really not a fan of the Deck just because it makes so little sense. I mean, why would anyone make this sort of artifact? What purpose does it serve? I've never seen any fluff that made any sense with it at all.

lesser_minion
2010-02-19, 04:07 PM
Bear in mind that it will make your PCs more powerful. Not necessarily that much more powerful, but I suspect that players are going to end up re-rolling if anything bad comes up on the draw, so the high chance of it going wrong isn't really a drawback.

Cavara
2010-02-19, 04:08 PM
For really funsies shuffle together the deck of many things and the deck of illusions and then draw 10 cards...WHO KNOWS WHAT COULD HAPPEN (universe implodes)

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-02-19, 05:11 PM
For really funsies shuffle together the deck of many things and the deck of illusions and then draw 10 cards...WHO KNOWS WHAT COULD HAPPEN (universe implodes)Add in the variant deck of many things for extra lulz

Lapak
2010-02-19, 05:15 PM
I'm really not a fan of the Deck just because it makes so little sense. I mean, why would anyone make this sort of artifact? What purpose does it serve? I've never seen any fluff that made any sense with it at all.Why would someone enchant a monkey's paw so that it granted wishes but twisted them to the ruin of the user?

To take a D&D example, why would someone create an Obsidian Man that does nothing but kill whoever is nearest?

The Deck is obviously the creation of a godlike being that loves to screw with people. The odds of surviving the Deck with someone good are not good and DEFINITELY not worth the risk of utter destruction it carries; yet there will always be people willing to pull cards from it.

Any being that favors Chaos over Law has plenty of motive to make it, just for that.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-19, 05:21 PM
Why would someone enchant a monkey's paw so that it granted wishes but twisted them to the ruin of the user?
[QUOTE]

Because someone is sadistic?

[QUOTE]
To take a D&D example, why would someone create an Obsidian Man that does nothing but kill whoever is nearest?

To guard something they weren't able to destroy.



The Deck is obviously the creation of a godlike being that loves to screw with people. The odds of surviving the Deck with someone good are not good and DEFINITELY not worth the risk of utter destruction it carries; yet there will always be people willing to pull cards from it.

Any being that favors Chaos over Law has plenty of motive to make it, just for that.

Hmm, that's a valid point.

Cisturn
2010-02-21, 09:27 PM
i think it really depends on how structured your game is, and how good of a dm you are while improvising. I mean if one your players draws the void or donjon card will you know what to do? Or at least be able to fake like you do until creativity is spurred? Besides the fact that it's random the only problem i really see with adding it in is that it can completely screw up your game's plot, however if your campaigns are more zany i say go for it, but if not it may suck to mess everything up so close to the end.

Cavara
2010-02-21, 09:38 PM
Better yet.
Shuffle together the deck of many things, the variant deck of many things, the deck of illusions, oh and throw in some explosive runes shaped like playing cards for extra fun. At that point find the nearest living thing say that you draw the entire deck... throw it and run!!!

Devils_Advocate
2010-02-22, 04:44 AM
The Deck of Many Things randomly screws with game balance. Heck, it just randomly screws with the game in general; that's pretty much the point. Including it isn't so great an idea if you want to continue playing a normal game in a normal fashion afterward. On the other hand, if you've run out of ideas and don't know what to do next, it could actually produce some plot hooks. In short, it shakes things up, which could be bad or good.

Sticking the Deck in near the end of a campaign would give your group the opportunity to screw around with it without any lasting damage. Under those circumstances, I don't see why not to use it, so you might as well go for it.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-22, 05:08 PM
It exists solely as something to toss out there when you're clueless as to what possible loot you can give them, and generally have hit a wall in terms of good plot hooks, loot and leads.

The cursed items are also fun for this, as are some other artifacts. Use with care, some of them have negative effects sufficiently bad to destroy characters. It's generally fun to give them a clue as to it's nature, but leave them uncertain, and let them decide if they want to take the risk.

I gave the deck to my current party out of curiosity...while they keep debating actually using it...they have offered it repeatedly to random folks with the offer to "draw a card, see your fortune". In a thieve's guild, no less, as it's a mostly evil party.

Every frigging time, it's the opposite alignment card. They have changed lives, redeemed souls, and made the world a better place, entirely by mistake.

Overshee
2010-02-22, 05:12 PM
One of my friends drew Void (we were level 6, so there was no chance of getting him back). Next player got a wish and wished us back to the first draw. The same friend got another Void. DM ended up retconning it again...

Deck of Many Things is cool, but I don't think it has a place in a campaign unless ALL consequences of actions are honored.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-22, 05:19 PM
One of my friends drew Void (we were level 6, so there was no chance of getting him back). Next player got a wish and wished us back to the first draw. The same friend got another Void. DM ended up retconning it again...

Deck of Many Things is cool, but I don't think it has a place in a campaign unless ALL consequences of actions are honored.

Yeah. Show the players the table first. Make sure they know very well that what happens, happens. Allow them to prepare as they wish(ie...preparing teleport in case of void, etc).

Fun thing...the dread wraith doesn't allow your friends to fight it...if they try, they get their own. However, it doesn't prevent you from running the hell away. Sure, it's got a 60ft fly speed, but it's powerless in daylight, and it might be slowed down in hunting you if you say, go through cities and such. It's tireless, so it'll never stop, but hey...you don't have to either.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-02-22, 05:28 PM
Playing 52 Card Pickup with the Deck of Many Things makes your GM very angry.

Mordokai
2010-02-22, 05:29 PM
I always wanted to try Deck of Many Things. Would I be a player in your campaign, I'd probably swallow it, hook, line and sinker. But then, I'm a little bit of gambler. If you're sure your players are gamblers as well and can cope with every possible result, let them use it. If not, better err on the side of caution and not use it.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-22, 05:32 PM
Playing 52 Card Pickup with the Deck of Many Things makes your GM very angry.

If you get this at a low level, and are not an int-focused character, this is actually decent. However, order is important. Particularily, you want the "avoid any situation once" card asap. Likewise, you want the "lose all magic items" and "lose everything else" cards up asap. If sufficiently poor, this will likely be a win for you.

Likewise, a level 4 fighter minion rocks at the early levels. Hell, even losing 2 int for a +2 bonus wherever you like is a decent deal for many chars. Many of the bad events will result in fun, fun events down the road, like emnity with an outsider, but in exchange for more power now? Hell yeah. Make sure you have two means of teleport ready. One on you, and one held by a nearby friend(in case you lose it via lose all magical items) to deal with the void.

However, the whole "draw additional cards" is sorta a crap shoot.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-02-22, 07:31 PM
Also, Sleight of Hand + Deck of Many Things + Some people playing Poker = Hilarity.

Stephen_E
2010-02-22, 07:48 PM
I would suggest 1 restriction with a Deck of Many Things.
Put a max card draw limit in.
I'd suggest 3, but definitely no more than 5.
Otherwise some people may, for various reasons, try "Draw the deck" which is a campaign smasher one way or another.

I recall a previous discussion where one person was so violently opposed to it because it was a campaign wrecker IHNSHO (In His Not So Humble Opinion :smallwink:) that he would use it to destroy the campaign if at all possible (and no, he didn't appear to see the paradox in that. :smallconfused:).

Stephen E

Jack_Simth
2010-02-22, 07:51 PM
Also, Sleight of Hand + Deck of Many Things + Some people playing Poker = Hilarity.
Go Fish, not Poker. In poker, the dealer draws all cards, so there's only one target. With Go Fish, you've no idea who the victim will be....

Tackyhillbillu
2010-02-22, 07:58 PM
Go Fish, not Poker. In poker, the dealer draws all cards, so there's only one target. With Go Fish, you've no idea who the victim will be....

Good point.

Sleight of Hand, a skill that I have rarely used to do anything but piss off people.

Jack_Simth
2010-02-22, 08:00 PM
Good point.

Sleight of Hand, a skill that I have rarely used to do anything but piss off people.

Now, mind you, Poker is a good choice of game if you really, really want to use The Deck to rake someone over the coals - when that person's turn to deal comes around, you replace the deck with The Deck. If there's four people at the table, he draws twenty cards....

TheMinxTail
2010-02-22, 08:43 PM
I think "Cheat" was a 1-st level Sor/Wiz spell if not a cantrip in the Book of Vile Darkness. Don't have it on me, but the effect as I remember was that it allowed you to cheat at a game of chance - allowing you to roll twice and take the better roll. Wonder if you could use that with the Deck... Figures, most powerful Archmage in the last century goes mad and spends the height of his power metaciouisly designing stupid, powerful (powerfully stupid and stupidly powerful) artefacts, some band of munchkins walk along and the 16th level Fighter who just randomly took a level in Wizard gets free reign with the damnable deck. To my fellow inexperienced DM's out there: Supplements are made to screw with out nerves, amaright? I guess it balances out things though - actually using the Deck. I think there's a card taht flips your mindset (LG to CE, etc.), one which casts an undodgeable Imprison, two that kill you... maybe I'm jsut a pesimist, but Ican't remember any of teh GOOD cards being worth the risk of your twentieth level character going on epic get instantly fried for them.

drengnikrafe
2010-02-22, 09:24 PM
I think cheat specifically disallows anything magical.