balistafreak
2010-02-20, 12:30 AM
Spider monk
Spider monk
Help me fix
This piece of junk
It started innocently enough - a Fighter who took his first two levels in Monk for Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes, simply because of the fact that he could take more bonus feats this way. Meant to be a grappler with spiked armor, his goal was to quickly tumble through enemy forces and lock down spellcasters in low/mid-level campaigns.
Then things got out of hand. A spiked chain with the full Combat Expertise tree was added. Skills were made to be athletic and acrobatic in nature, running the full Balance/Jump/Tumble gamut.
Yet when looking at eight boring levels of fighter up to Level10, we still decided we could do more.
A week later, we ended up with what may or may not be the silliest "mundane" build I have ever seen.
Monk2/Fighter2/Scout3/Ranger1/Streetfighter2
The first 10 levels of the build are in this order. For obvious reasons, our race is Human, to avoid multiclass explosions. The only class that can progress past Level2 is Scout - indeed, Scout needs to make it to Scout11 somewhere in the build.
How does this resemble Spider-Man at all?
It has to do with judicious selection of Variant Classes. The Scout levels (from Complete Adventurer) use the Dungeon Specialist variant, while the single Ranger level is the infamous "Ranger Splash of Awesome" level, which applies both the Urban Ranger and "Other Ranger Build" variants from the D20 SRD. This level of Ranger1 singlehandedly provides Fast Movement (10ft.), Favored Enemy, Urban Tracking, and, for the lulz, half (aka zero) a level of Wild Empathy, just in case you felt like trying your luck at calming a guard dog.
The Dungeon variant of Scout is the backbone of Spider Monk. It provides, at Scout3, a Climb speed of half our base land speed. This means that we have a +8 racial bonus to Climb checks, can always take 10 (even under stress, aka combat), and maintain our Dexterity bonus to armor and wield a single light weapon while climbing. It is the level that "goes the distance" to fill the remaining levels to Level20, although right now our focus is on the minimum amount of levels that is necessary.
Most importantly to the concept of Spider Monk, this character never has an "off" day. All of his abilities are inherent, not spell-powered. Some character might use Web spells or other such chicanery, but this method never runs out of juice. Even if you dumped him in the street naked, he could still climb away. Hell, because of the levels of Monk, he could still fight.
Minimum stats
Intelligence 13. No, really, that's all that's needed.
Now, that being said, a high Strength to trip and grapple is preferable.
High Dexterity helps with survival, although we're unclear if concentrating into Strength is better than taking Weapon Finesse because the extra AC really, really helps.
Constitution is a very nebulous stat: obviously, there's no reason to not want it high, but it really isn't neccessary either.
Intelligence really only needs to be 13, although extra skill points don't hurt - and due to the acrobatic skills you're taking, you'll be starved for skill points for social skills, especially Bluff for feinting.
Wisdom and Charisma are "dumps", although a higher Wisdom will help out in the first two levels when you're still a pure Monk and haven't gotten a Spiked Chainshirt yet. Charisma, finally, is a genuine dumpstat with no real applications, yet due to the ranks you'll want to put into Bluff, it feels bad to keep it at a measly 8.
If anything, Spider-Monk is a stat-hungry character. Unlike a Wizard who can take minimum Strength and Charisma and simply not care, Spider-Monk can still find a use for those points.
BAB
Monk1: +0
Monk2: +1
Fighter1: +2
Fighter2: +3
Scout1: +3
Scout2: +4
Scout3: +5
Ranger1: +6/+1
Streetfighter1: +7/+2 (This is where the build deviates from its imitation of a half BAB progression, getting an additional +1 here at Level9.)
Streetfighter2: +8/+3
So by Level10 we've got a BAB slightly better than than the half progression, although we get the second attack at exactly the same level, Level8.
Saves (Fortitude/Reflex/Will)
Monk1: +2/+2/+2
Monk2: +3/+3/+3
Fighter1: +5/+3/+3
Fighter2: +6/+3/+3
Scout1: +7/+5/+3
Scout2: +7/+6/+3
Scout3: +8/+6/+4
Ranger1: +10/+8/+4
Streetfighter1: +12/+8/+4
Streetfighter2: +13/+8/+4
Due to insane multiclassing, even our worst save, Will, is better than the normal "Poor" progression, which would be +3 at Level10. Our Reflex save is on the other hand slightly better than the "Good" progression, which would be +7 at Level10. Finally, our Fortitude save is balls-to-the-wall hilarious. To put it in perspective, we beat the save of the "Good" progression at Level20, +12. To put it in "Stand Tough" terms (a feat described below), we now can shrug off any hit for 13 damage for sure, not including any Constitution bonus you might have gotten (although it all gets taken off in a single hit), and we can try getting more at the cost of 5% failure chance per extra point. Critical Spider Monk. I dare you. It's a pity we can't get to the second usage of Stand Tough at Streetfighter4 without inflicting multiclass penalities, but such are the challenges we face in life.
Feats and Abilities
Monk1: Improved Grapple, Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
Monk2: Combat Reflexes, Evasion
Fighter1: Exotic Weapon Proficency (spiked chain), Improved Feint/Disarm
Fighter2: Improved Feint/Disarm
Scout1: Skirmish (1d6), Trapfinding (for whatever that's worth)
Scout2: Battle Fortitude +1 (+1 to Fortitude saves and initiative), Uncanny Dodge, Weapon Finesse
Scout3: Climb speed (half move), +8 to Climb
Ranger1: Urban Tracking, Favored Enemy, Fast Movement (10 ft.), Wild Empathy
Streetfighter1: Always ready (+1 to initiative), Streetwise (+2 to Gather Information and Knowledge (local)), SOME FEAT WE NEED HELP WITH
Streetfighter2: Stand Tough 1/day (Take a Fortitude save with DC equal to nonspell/special ability damage taken to convert all damage from that hit to half as much nonlethal damage)
This multiclassing results in some cherrypicking of all sorts of great abilities to have. That being said, the 9th level feat is where we quite honestly run out of ideas. Staying with the SRD feats (doing our best to keep it accessible and simple) we've already gotten the entire Combat Expertise tree. Taking a skill-feat seems extremely lame in general. So what is there?
Iron Will (+2 to Will saves) to bring the Will save up to the "Good" progression is always useful.
Weapon Focus seems bad, because we'll be switching from our Spiked Chain for ranged disarms and trips to our fists for grappling.
Leadership might grant a Cohort. Go useless Mary Jane go.
Run for the sheer lulz of moving five times our land speed (as opposed to four as normal) in a single round (that's 200 feet!) while STILL keeping a Dexterity bonus? (On a side note, can you mix running and tumbling in the same round, just because you can?)
And just for perspective...
Hit Dice
Monk1: d8
Monk2: d8
Fighter1: d10
Fighter2: d10
Scout1: d8
Scout2: d8
Scout3: d8
Ranger1: d8
Streetfighter1: d8
Streetfighter2: d8
So basically we're a little tougher than a straight d8 class. Not by much, but just a little.
Skills
Climb and Tumble should be maxed, Bluff as well. You'll need some ranks in Intimidate and Knowledge (local) to qualify for Streetfighter, and since you have Urban Tracking Gather Information isn't a bad idea. Round out with some social skills or awareness skills as you see fit.
Equipment
You'll need a spiked chainshirt and a spiked chain. Other than that, there's no special items that the build revolves around - an unexpected strength.
Right now, I'm out of ideas. Comment and criticize at your leisure.
Spider monk
Help me fix
This piece of junk
It started innocently enough - a Fighter who took his first two levels in Monk for Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes, simply because of the fact that he could take more bonus feats this way. Meant to be a grappler with spiked armor, his goal was to quickly tumble through enemy forces and lock down spellcasters in low/mid-level campaigns.
Then things got out of hand. A spiked chain with the full Combat Expertise tree was added. Skills were made to be athletic and acrobatic in nature, running the full Balance/Jump/Tumble gamut.
Yet when looking at eight boring levels of fighter up to Level10, we still decided we could do more.
A week later, we ended up with what may or may not be the silliest "mundane" build I have ever seen.
Monk2/Fighter2/Scout3/Ranger1/Streetfighter2
The first 10 levels of the build are in this order. For obvious reasons, our race is Human, to avoid multiclass explosions. The only class that can progress past Level2 is Scout - indeed, Scout needs to make it to Scout11 somewhere in the build.
How does this resemble Spider-Man at all?
It has to do with judicious selection of Variant Classes. The Scout levels (from Complete Adventurer) use the Dungeon Specialist variant, while the single Ranger level is the infamous "Ranger Splash of Awesome" level, which applies both the Urban Ranger and "Other Ranger Build" variants from the D20 SRD. This level of Ranger1 singlehandedly provides Fast Movement (10ft.), Favored Enemy, Urban Tracking, and, for the lulz, half (aka zero) a level of Wild Empathy, just in case you felt like trying your luck at calming a guard dog.
The Dungeon variant of Scout is the backbone of Spider Monk. It provides, at Scout3, a Climb speed of half our base land speed. This means that we have a +8 racial bonus to Climb checks, can always take 10 (even under stress, aka combat), and maintain our Dexterity bonus to armor and wield a single light weapon while climbing. It is the level that "goes the distance" to fill the remaining levels to Level20, although right now our focus is on the minimum amount of levels that is necessary.
Most importantly to the concept of Spider Monk, this character never has an "off" day. All of his abilities are inherent, not spell-powered. Some character might use Web spells or other such chicanery, but this method never runs out of juice. Even if you dumped him in the street naked, he could still climb away. Hell, because of the levels of Monk, he could still fight.
Minimum stats
Intelligence 13. No, really, that's all that's needed.
Now, that being said, a high Strength to trip and grapple is preferable.
High Dexterity helps with survival, although we're unclear if concentrating into Strength is better than taking Weapon Finesse because the extra AC really, really helps.
Constitution is a very nebulous stat: obviously, there's no reason to not want it high, but it really isn't neccessary either.
Intelligence really only needs to be 13, although extra skill points don't hurt - and due to the acrobatic skills you're taking, you'll be starved for skill points for social skills, especially Bluff for feinting.
Wisdom and Charisma are "dumps", although a higher Wisdom will help out in the first two levels when you're still a pure Monk and haven't gotten a Spiked Chainshirt yet. Charisma, finally, is a genuine dumpstat with no real applications, yet due to the ranks you'll want to put into Bluff, it feels bad to keep it at a measly 8.
If anything, Spider-Monk is a stat-hungry character. Unlike a Wizard who can take minimum Strength and Charisma and simply not care, Spider-Monk can still find a use for those points.
BAB
Monk1: +0
Monk2: +1
Fighter1: +2
Fighter2: +3
Scout1: +3
Scout2: +4
Scout3: +5
Ranger1: +6/+1
Streetfighter1: +7/+2 (This is where the build deviates from its imitation of a half BAB progression, getting an additional +1 here at Level9.)
Streetfighter2: +8/+3
So by Level10 we've got a BAB slightly better than than the half progression, although we get the second attack at exactly the same level, Level8.
Saves (Fortitude/Reflex/Will)
Monk1: +2/+2/+2
Monk2: +3/+3/+3
Fighter1: +5/+3/+3
Fighter2: +6/+3/+3
Scout1: +7/+5/+3
Scout2: +7/+6/+3
Scout3: +8/+6/+4
Ranger1: +10/+8/+4
Streetfighter1: +12/+8/+4
Streetfighter2: +13/+8/+4
Due to insane multiclassing, even our worst save, Will, is better than the normal "Poor" progression, which would be +3 at Level10. Our Reflex save is on the other hand slightly better than the "Good" progression, which would be +7 at Level10. Finally, our Fortitude save is balls-to-the-wall hilarious. To put it in perspective, we beat the save of the "Good" progression at Level20, +12. To put it in "Stand Tough" terms (a feat described below), we now can shrug off any hit for 13 damage for sure, not including any Constitution bonus you might have gotten (although it all gets taken off in a single hit), and we can try getting more at the cost of 5% failure chance per extra point. Critical Spider Monk. I dare you. It's a pity we can't get to the second usage of Stand Tough at Streetfighter4 without inflicting multiclass penalities, but such are the challenges we face in life.
Feats and Abilities
Monk1: Improved Grapple, Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
Monk2: Combat Reflexes, Evasion
Fighter1: Exotic Weapon Proficency (spiked chain), Improved Feint/Disarm
Fighter2: Improved Feint/Disarm
Scout1: Skirmish (1d6), Trapfinding (for whatever that's worth)
Scout2: Battle Fortitude +1 (+1 to Fortitude saves and initiative), Uncanny Dodge, Weapon Finesse
Scout3: Climb speed (half move), +8 to Climb
Ranger1: Urban Tracking, Favored Enemy, Fast Movement (10 ft.), Wild Empathy
Streetfighter1: Always ready (+1 to initiative), Streetwise (+2 to Gather Information and Knowledge (local)), SOME FEAT WE NEED HELP WITH
Streetfighter2: Stand Tough 1/day (Take a Fortitude save with DC equal to nonspell/special ability damage taken to convert all damage from that hit to half as much nonlethal damage)
This multiclassing results in some cherrypicking of all sorts of great abilities to have. That being said, the 9th level feat is where we quite honestly run out of ideas. Staying with the SRD feats (doing our best to keep it accessible and simple) we've already gotten the entire Combat Expertise tree. Taking a skill-feat seems extremely lame in general. So what is there?
Iron Will (+2 to Will saves) to bring the Will save up to the "Good" progression is always useful.
Weapon Focus seems bad, because we'll be switching from our Spiked Chain for ranged disarms and trips to our fists for grappling.
Leadership might grant a Cohort. Go useless Mary Jane go.
Run for the sheer lulz of moving five times our land speed (as opposed to four as normal) in a single round (that's 200 feet!) while STILL keeping a Dexterity bonus? (On a side note, can you mix running and tumbling in the same round, just because you can?)
And just for perspective...
Hit Dice
Monk1: d8
Monk2: d8
Fighter1: d10
Fighter2: d10
Scout1: d8
Scout2: d8
Scout3: d8
Ranger1: d8
Streetfighter1: d8
Streetfighter2: d8
So basically we're a little tougher than a straight d8 class. Not by much, but just a little.
Skills
Climb and Tumble should be maxed, Bluff as well. You'll need some ranks in Intimidate and Knowledge (local) to qualify for Streetfighter, and since you have Urban Tracking Gather Information isn't a bad idea. Round out with some social skills or awareness skills as you see fit.
Equipment
You'll need a spiked chainshirt and a spiked chain. Other than that, there's no special items that the build revolves around - an unexpected strength.
Right now, I'm out of ideas. Comment and criticize at your leisure.