what to do with bad players...

[agumathebear]

ok, so im running a campaign that is deep and very serious with 4 players and myself, i've told everyone that this is a serious game, but that doenst have to stop you from making a funny character, such as a quick witted gnome and so forth, in fact we have an elf who's always getting himself into trouble, even though he doesnt mean to.

but we have one player, who im pretty sure is lashing out at me, who was playing a cleric. i allowed him to create his own god, but then every time he did an immoral act he said "oh, it's fine, my god doesnt care" and i told him about it, he seemed very pissed off. he also has a companion, who we all just call bear, who's a paladin. every time his cleric character did something bad bear just happend to "look away" and i told him about that too, and that seemed to further piss him off.

i told him all the players have specific goals and achievments and background story for their characters that were very thought out and well organised, but he never wanted to talk about his future until he said "hey, can i have my character have a love interest with a half drow, half hellfire wyrm pirate slut" and i said sure, but later i told him just make it half dragon. he then said "ok, they also have a son named pluff hellmonkey whos a barbarian who just runs around and wreaks havok"

i told him i didnt really like the name pluff hellmonkey and no one in the party did either so he whippid it around and said he's killing off his character and making a new batch, a fighter named mcfighter and his traveling bear companion panda clause.

he's a friend, and i've told him if he doesnt want to be in a serious campaign that's fine, but i feel like he's getting out of hand. has anyone had players like this and what did you do? i dont want any drama or anything, but 3 out of 4 of us have voted to kick him out and replace him, but we dont want to be mean about it or, like i said, cause drama.

[Iceforge]

Oh wow, I really don't envy you for that situation, really sounds like that friend of yours doesn't really care about what the rest of you want, or maybe even worse, that he is purposefully doing things to screw with the campaign.

I would take him aside, not while playing if he is a good friend of yours, but maybe talk to him between sessions. Be serious in the mood, but don't be confrontational in your attitude.

Tell him you want to talk about the game and then ask him why he is acting like he is?
If he doesn't immediately understand why you are asking that (the "what do you mean?" response) explain that in your current game, you and the rest of the players want a serious mood at the table, but he is continously making that very hard with his silly and wacky characters, but you know that he is a good guy, so you know he must have some reason to be doing so, perhaps he wants to lighten the mood at the table or make the rest of the group laugh?

It is important in a situation like this, I found out from the one time I had to have this talk with a player, to make it clear that you do not think he is sabotaging or ruining the game on purpose; Maybe he is, but most likely, if he is a good guy, it is all based around some misunderstanding or a misdirected attempt to do something nice. Maybe he noticed that there was fewer laughs around the table (which is actually a good thing in a serious game) and interpreted that as everybody needing something fun in the game to entertain and make them laugh.

The troublesome player I had to deal with had very good intentions; He had been commenting peoples character builds, riding people hard and all sorts of things.
His intentions was based around him having interpreted the group as relatively new players, and wanting to aid the players in their character buildings, and his attitude in game was based around playing an evil character, but the difference between him ingame and outgame was blurred by his misdirected attempts of doing something nice, which just bothered people.

Unfortunately, this misunderstanding wasn't found out before the dreaded "we have decided not to invite you back to our game" conversation, which left me and the other player present at that conversation a little ill afterwards, because we hadn't seen that coming, so even if you can't see a good intention behind your players actions, chances are that he isn't just doing it to be anoying and ruining your game.

So while it might feel like he is lashing out at you, give him the benefit of the doubt.

If you don't get a reaction and explanation from him when asking him why he is doing it, just say that "there must be some reason you're doing it, maybe
you're mad at me for something and trying to get back at me ingame or some other player or whatever, but there must be a reason?"

If he got absolutely no reason for doing so, then asks if he wants to be more serious in the game or if he isn't really interested in a serious game?

Initially make the choise his; If he chooses to stay in the game, but continous being just as silly and continous to ruin the serious mood, then you'll have to make the choise for him

[Kiero]

he's a friend, and i've told him if he doesnt want to be in a serious campaign that's fine, but i feel like he's getting out of hand. has anyone had players like this and what did you do? i dont want any drama or anything, but 3 out of 4 of us have voted to kick him out and replace him, but we dont want to be mean about it or, like i said, cause drama.

It doesn't matter that he's a friend (in danger of falling for the usual Geek Fallacies here), he's being a jerk.

Have you talked to him about his behaviour, and how it impacts the game and everyone else's enjoyment? While you do it diplomatically, he needs to be offered an ultimatum: either he gets with the program and stops spoiling everyone else's fun, or if he can't do that he absents himself from the game.

[BobVosh]

Have you watched old yeller?

Er...I mean...Talk with him. If it doesn't work mention that it isn't just you. You have most of the group wanting to get rid of him. There is unfortunately no real good way to deal with this.

[AslanCross]

If you've already talked to him OOC and he's neither apologized nor seen how little the rest of the party likes his attitude, then he's created all the drama himself to begin with. Tell him "I don't think you're enjoying the campaign, and neither are we, so would you like to give up your slot for someone else?"

Those are the kindest terms I can put it in.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Seems to me that he's just not the kind of player you want in your campaign. He's making up daft and jokey characters and playing them for laughs, and you're trying to run a serious(-ish) game...

Me, I'd say to him "This isn't like the funny campaign we played before, I want you all to be playing serious characters."
I'd say "Serious characters can be funny too, but not because they're wearing clown shoes."
I'd see if he understood what I was talking about.
As he's a friend, I'd offer to run a silly game as well, and he can play all the daft stuff he wants in that - but I'd not let him carry on playing joke character in my serious game.

[agumathebear]

alright, i sent him a huge email telling him all the stuff me and the rest of the party have discussed, i told him that this is a serious campaign that's going to become even more serious over time, so if he wants to play more of a comedy type campaign he shouldnt be in this one, but we're all still his friends and well still hang out probably every week and such, i told him i just dont want you to come to a game you dont really want to play. its like joining a roleplay server on warcraft and only wanting pvp lol. i'll let you guys know what his raction is, today is d&d day, so hopefully he read my email...

[Viletta Vadim]

alright, i sent him a huge email telling him all the stuff me and the rest of the party have discussed, i told him that this is a serious campaign that's going to become even more serious over time, so if he wants to play more of a comedy type campaign he shouldnt be in this one, but we're all still his friends and well still hang out probably every week and such, i told him i just dont want you to come to a game you dont really want to play. its like joining a roleplay server on warcraft and only wanting pvp lol. i'll let you guys know what his raction is, today is d&d day, so hopefully he read my email...
That is doomed to failure. A long-winded, "We as a collective decree that this is why you suck, and here is how you must fix it or thou shalt be banished from our presence," never works. Even if that's not your intent, that's how it's likely to be perceived. The player is now more likely to feel cornered, as if everyone is ganging up against him; he's likely to feel threatened, to close up, to become defensive. None of which help resolve the situation.

And for that reason, this email may have just dealt irreparable damage that could make reconciliation and a mutually beneficial solution nigh impossible.

You keep talking about what you want from the game, but you only make half-baked conjecture about what he wants from the game. If you do not truly understand what it is this player really wants, then it will be impossible to resolve the situation. And calling this guy a 'bad player' isn't doing you any favors, either. The key to resolving situations like this is not to try to force the player to think like you do, but to understand what the player wants, and then try to find ways to give it to him in a way that still allows everyone else at the table to get what they want out of the game. While it does seem you're at least trying to meet the player's needs, it also sounds like you've skipped the 'understand' step, and don't truly know what it is this player enjoys or seeks to get out of the game.

I'm gonna plug the Brilliant Gameologists' game band therapy (http://brilliantgameologists.com/category/podcast-episodes/game-band-therapy/) series, as it's all extremely relevant. The payouts and overdone payouts episodes, and the entire Kicking People Out series, all should be required listening.

[Kiero]

alright, i sent him a huge email telling him all the stuff me and the rest of the party have discussed, i told him that this is a serious campaign that's going to become even more serious over time, so if he wants to play more of a comedy type campaign he shouldnt be in this one, but we're all still his friends and well still hang out probably every week and such, i told him i just dont want you to come to a game you dont really want to play. its like joining a roleplay server on warcraft and only wanting pvp lol. i'll let you guys know what his raction is, today is d&d day, so hopefully he read my email...

As the previous poster just said, this is categorically the wrong way to deal with something contentious. You might want to avoid a confrontation, but this is the sort of thing that should be hashed out face-to-face, preferably not while the game is going on.

Furthermore, you've removed his ability to respond by declaring that you already think he won't make any effort to change and perhaps shouldn't show. Again as the previous poster said, it needed to begin with asking him what he wants out of the game and why he's behaving that way, rather than assuming the reason.

[bosssmiley]

Talk to the player. Ask him why he won't invest in the game.

If that fails see if you can't amicably split. Maybe you can put him in touch with a DM better suited to his (seemingly casual) playstyle.

If, and only if, the amicable split plan fails, then render him down for tallow. :smallbiggrin:

[Emmerask]

You keep talking about what you want from the game, but you only make half-baked conjecture about what he wants from the game. If you do not truly understand what it is this player really wants, then it will be impossible to resolve the situation. And calling this guy a 'bad player' isn't doing you any favors, either. The key to resolving situations like this is not to try to force the player to think like you do, but to understand what the player wants, and then try to find ways to give it to him in a way that still allows everyone else at the table to get what they want out of the game. While it does seem you're at least trying to meet the player's needs, it also sounds like you've skipped the 'understand' step, and don't truly know what it is this player enjoys or seeks to get out of the game.


Pff that is completly wrong if the dm wants to play a serious game without joke names and other bs then it is his right, the players have the right to not play if they don´t like it. And as it seems there is only one player who is disruptive to the game and does his best to kill the campaign only because its not his kind of gameplay, what a selfish <insert word that I´m not allowed to write here>.
Has the majority (the other three players and the dm) to compromise and to suffer because one player just won´t want a serious campaign?
I really think not!
Op you did the right thing with the mail maybe the player does realize that he is destroying the other players and your fun and will stop it otherwise do what has to be done if the friendship is any good it will do no harm in the long run :smallwink:

[agumathebear]

the email seemed to work, he quit making fun of everyone and he gave himself a new name, but he still continued to just do everything else he normally does, after i sat down and talked to him from 11am to 5pm, we discussed what he wants and he said he's just in it for the laughs, so we decided to give him another try, and at the end of the day i asked the party what they thought and everyone instantanously raised their hand in vote to kick him, so i know it's not just me being a douche. the party told me what they thought, saying he doesnt have any goals, no plot, no backstory, and he doesnt want one (that talk from 11 to 5 was mostly about what he wants to do, and that's when he just said he's in it for the laughs, nothing else) and its like he has to ruin everyone's story. there was an epic quest yesterday where madrina (a member of the party) lost her father, chief of the foxling tribe, and the partie's arch-nemisis was behind it, and the whole time the 'bad player' just kept laughing at stuff like when i was talking as the father, telling her not to cry and such, he completely ruined the whole mood, and madrina's my gf so i got to hear about that all night -_-....that and a member, bael, finally killed his evil father, and the whole time the 'bad player' was just like "matt, matt, hold on, get to his story in a second, if i take on this class will it make me better? matt!" all while i was saying stuff like "as you hold the blade to your...hold on ian 'bad player'...as you hold the blade to your father's throat he whisper...hold on! damn! he whispers "i'm..." damnit, im trying to do bael's storyline here!"

so that should give you a little more insight to him. he's a fun guy to be around, hes a good friend, but he's not good for the party.

[The Glyphstone]

Looks like he's out then. Hopefully you can break it to him in a way that he won't have hard feelings over, especially if he's said that he's only interested in laughs that will be in short supply.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

A player who interrupts someone else's scene, despite being told "Please don't interrupt", is not a player you want at the table.

That's not to say no-one ever does that - but if you keep on having to ask him not to interrupt, then you should probably let him know (outside of game time) that he can either stop interrupting, or stop playing.

[illyrus]

I've dealt with a similar player before. He was a good friend and acted like a total ass 90% of the time in what I'm guessing was an effort to ruin the campaign. The others players and myself did not let him have his way so he quit and we finished the rest of the campaign. It was the first campaign he was a player in in the decade+ I've known him that actually completed (it was also the first time I had ever GMed with him in the game). It was also the first one he ever quit. We're still friends but some people are just intentionally terrible players. That looks to be the case here.

I'd suggest removing him from the game, pick a day you can talk to him and him alone and weather the remarks he throws back at you calmly. Don't argue, him being removed is not up for discussion as you've given him plenty of chances.

[Kiero]

Forget what I said about getting his side, he quite clearly doesn't play well with others. Spotlight hog who thinks he's the joker/clown, and doesn't get that he's ruining other people's fun. Boot him.