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View Full Version : Nixing Skills? (3.5)



Drolyt
2010-02-20, 01:02 PM
I've been thinking. In relation to my plans to make my own 3.5 variant I've been looking at how things worked in previous editions (as well as 4th edition and the plethora of related systems such as Pathfinder) and as most of you probably know skills were a 3rd edition addition. Now, when I first looked up information on the addition of skills to 3rd edition I found that they were supposedly an expansion of Non-Weapon Proficiencies, a 2nd edition rule. Now, looking through a friend's copy of 2nd edition I have come to realize that that is only half true. Non-Weapon Proficiencies more or less covered the Profession skill. Most other skills were either class abilities or something anyone could do.

Now, the skill system, while in many ways a huge improvement over previous editions in the versatility it adds to characters, has several flaws. Among them are the fact that they are an additional, rather complicated and time consuming step in character creation and advancement, that the skills tend to fall into two camps: useless (Decipher Script, Jump) or broken/awesome (Diplomacy, Use Magic Device), and that they tend to be overshadowed by other abilities anyways. Another thing is that we already have a great customization tool that was added in 3rd edition: Feats.

Now, here is my idea: give skills that are closely tied to a particular class to that class as a class ability (for example, all the thieving skills + UMD could be Rogue class features, Hide and Move Silently could be Rogue and Ranger class features, Listen and Spot could be Ranger and Barbarian class features etc.). Since these abilities are not meant to be exclusive they will also be available as feats in the case that another class wants them. Finally, a profession system similar to 2nd edition's Non-Weapon Proficiencies will have each character start out with a handful of "skills" that represent non-combat non-adventuring skills the character has.

What does everyone think about this? I think it would greatly simplify the system. As a side note, I hope to have my Fighter up this weekend.

Nero24200
2010-02-20, 01:35 PM
It would all depend on playing style. The only real problem I would have personally with a system like that is that certain classes could not "break the mold" so to speak, but even then, you already have something to compensate.

So for me, if the feats were done well and allowed the flexability, it wouldn't be a problem at all. Expect to see a few people however that like the added flexability.

Glimbur
2010-02-20, 01:39 PM
This will interact strangely with multiclassing. Your standard Daring Outlaw with a rogue focus (Rogue 16/Swashbuckler 4) normally has to carefully consider which skills he wants to keep maximized through the swashbuckler levels. Will your system force him to keep balance, tumble, and other skills both rogues and swashbucklers have at peak, leaving disable device and search and UMD a bit behind?

It'll also be weird to qualify for Prestige Classes, especially those that currently require sub-par skills. For example, Sublime Chord requires 6 ranks in Profession: Astrologer. This hurts a bit, will it be ignored in the new system?

How will Skill Tricks (from Complete Scoundrel) work with this? I might just give out a skill trick every other level, or every three levels.

How will this interact with feats that require cross-class skills, like the Mageslayer chain? You could just drop those requirements, but that makes the feats a little cheaper to get.

Drolyt
2010-02-20, 02:52 PM
This will interact strangely with multiclassing. Your standard Daring Outlaw with a rogue focus (Rogue 16/Swashbuckler 4) normally has to carefully consider which skills he wants to keep maximized through the swashbuckler levels. Will your system force him to keep balance, tumble, and other skills both rogues and swashbucklers have at peak, leaving disable device and search and UMD a bit behind?
Something like that, yes, but you could take feats to bring all your skills to full if you wanted to. Note that some skills will simply be completely nixed (did anyone ever actually take ranks in Climb?), being ability checks or the like.

It'll also be weird to qualify for Prestige Classes, especially those that currently require sub-par skills. For example, Sublime Chord requires 6 ranks in Profession: Astrologer. This hurts a bit, will it be ignored in the new system?
Prestige classes native to my system will simply use different requirements. When translating a prestige class to be used in my system you would have two choices: Ignore skill requirements (works well enough in most cases) or try to come up with equivalent non-skill requirements.

How will Skill Tricks (from Complete Scoundrel) work with this? I might just give out a skill trick every other level, or every three levels.
Hadn't thought about it. I'll look through it when I get to that point, I might roll them into different feats.

How will this interact with feats that require cross-class skills, like the Mageslayer chain? You could just drop those requirements, but that makes the feats a little cheaper to get.
Feats are being redone and rebalanced anyways. If for some reason you wanted to use a feat from a splat book with no equivalent in my system, you could either ignore the requirements or have your DM make new ones.