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View Full Version : Flooding the fileds with a Decanter of Endless water



NekoJoker
2010-02-20, 05:38 PM
Ok, I must say this is not entirely my own idea, but i'm off to do some obnoxious things with this.

A friend Loki Eremes introduced me to the intriguing capabilities of the Decanter of Endless Water.

This thing can create a huge amount of liquid really fast.

Here's the story of how my devious plan came to my mind.
I will be playing a Conjurer, I am 10th level.

He does not really like my assorted summons so he wants to change them into water elementals appropiate to my CL/HD and stuff. Now, These elementals suck while on the groud (no doubt he will adapt that, he is not an ass)

It was the Vortex ability of the elemental that caught my eye, I thought... How can I make this real effective? LET'S FLOOD THE BATTLEFIELD!

so I though of using this nasty little sucker. The item's description says it can spout 30 gallons per round on Geyser command. Having my entire group use this (6 people... yeah, big merry group) lands me 180 gallons per round thats 1800 gallons a minute. if I have an open area of at least 100 square feet, and I want to fill it with at least 5 feet of water how much time would I need?

Aditionally, I could just use several spells to manipulate the terrain and then unleash the geyser to trap/drawn the baddies.

at any rate the whole thing seems tquite good as I am quite confident on creating at least diffucult terrain (most of my party can move without problems through it, spells and class features.)


On a sidenote, do you have any magic item like this that has some really strange and nifty uses?
On another sidenote, I appologize for not doing the math myself but I really suck at numbers... hope you can help.

Volkov
2010-02-20, 05:40 PM
For this to work, you will need lots of decanters. And I mean LOTS. Or else you will be waiting for eternity to flood the battlefield in an outdoor setting or a large indoor setting.

Fortuna
2010-02-20, 05:43 PM
Outdoors, your problem will be a) volume and b) drainage. Too little of the one and too much of the other, to the point where I won't even bother with the maths. Indoors is a trivial problem: you just need some really basic (like, damn near primary) level maths, unless you've got drainage of course.

deuxhero
2010-02-20, 05:50 PM
There are much cheaper ways to get field of mud (third level spells I think)

Greenish
2010-02-20, 05:50 PM
so I though of using this nasty little sucker. The item's description says it can spout 30 gallons per round on Geyser command. Having my entire group use this (6 people... yeah, big merry group) lands me 180 gallons per round thats 1800 gallons a minute. if I have an open area of at least 100 square feet, and I want to fill it with at least 5 feet of water how much time would I need?I fail at math more complex than adding single-digit numbers, but by my calculations, you'd be done in 3 and half hours, assuming no drainage of any kind, and a simple 5 feet x 100 feet x 100 feet depression. Maybe. :smallcool:


[Edit]: And of course, all of your fellows have to be able to make a DC 12 strength check to keep aiming at the right direction. (I don't know wether it's when you first use "Geyser" setting or every round.)

Volkov
2010-02-20, 05:51 PM
There are much cheaper ways to get field of mud (third level spells I think)

I think his plan is to flood the battlefield with a depth of water that is deep enough to allow water elementals to use their vortex.

NekoJoker
2010-02-20, 06:02 PM
I think his plan is to flood the battlefield with a depth of water that is deep enough to allow water elementals to use their vortex.

That's my primary aim, but flooding it with at least 100 feet would make battle incredibly hard. Of course spells can pretty much make up for it.

Filling the area with mud is just icing on the cake I want the elementals to work as witten. Not that my DM is unwilling to change something dumb as that but it's just that I want to MAKE it work using my scarse wits.

Besides, flooding the whole damn field just for this trick to work will make a worthy story to be told.

ericgrau
2010-02-20, 06:10 PM
7.5 gallons per cubic foot, 935 gallons per 5 foot cube. That's 30 rounds per 5 foot cube from a decanter at full blast. Or each decanter could do a 100'x100' area to a depth of 5 feet in a day.

Volkov
2010-02-20, 06:14 PM
That's my primary aim, but flooding it with at least 100 feet would make battle incredibly hard. Of course spells can pretty much make up for it.

Filling the area with mud is just icing on the cake I want the elementals to work as witten. Not that my DM is unwilling to change something dumb as that but it's just that I want to MAKE it work using my scarse wits.

Besides, flooding the whole damn field just for this trick to work will make a worthy story to be told.

Why don't you just use air elementals? Their whirlwind ability is almost identical and works on land too.

Re'ozul
2010-02-20, 06:16 PM
It doesn't actually take that long (if its only 100 square feet and not 100squares to a side). Though I doubt you actually mean 100 square feet as that is only 4 squares :).

At 5feet deep an area of 100ft would create 500ft, which is equivalent to 14.158m.

180gallons translates to 681.37liters per round.
As 1m has 1000liters, you would need 20.78, so about 21rounds (a bit over 2 minutes) to flood this (very small area).

A battlefield of 100ftx100ft would be 1415.8m and take 35minutes.

And a 100squaresX100squares would be 35396m and take 14.43hours.

kabof
2010-02-20, 06:23 PM
You could also Planar Bubble the Water Elementals.

Greenish
2010-02-20, 06:26 PM
At 5feet deep an area of 100ft would create 500ft5x100x100=500? :smallconfused:

Ravens_cry
2010-02-20, 06:27 PM
For this really work you need to make a costume out of aluminium foil and call yourself Professor Chaos (http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Professor_Chaos).

Solaris
2010-02-20, 06:31 PM
5x100x100=500? :smallconfused:

Square feet and cubic feet are two different things. One is two-dimensional, the other is three-dimensional. I really don't know how to illustrate it with words, I always used pictures in the math classes.

Sebastian
2010-02-20, 06:31 PM
5x100x100=500? :smallconfused:

100ft = a square of 10 feet by 10 feet (or 2 by 50 or any other combination) not one 100 x 100 square.

Greenish
2010-02-20, 06:35 PM
100ft = 10ft x 10ftOh, yes, of course. Though I wouldn't call four squares a battlefield. :smallredface:

[Edit]: And water elemental Vortex has to be at least 10 feet deep.

deuxhero
2010-02-20, 06:44 PM
1:Dig a 10 foot deep trench
2:fill via decanter
3:???
4:Profit!

Really, if you need it to be deep, building a trench is a bit easier.

Emmerask
2010-02-20, 06:50 PM
Initiating a planar breach might be the easier way :smallwink:

If you are not fighting in a desert (or other terrain with very little drainage) I see no chance (outside of an arbitrary amount of decanters) to achieve your goal in a decent amount of time.

ericgrau
2010-02-20, 07:04 PM
100x100x5x7.48=374,000 gallons
374,000 gallons / 30 gallons per round = 12467 rounds
/10 = 1246.7 minutes
/60 = 20.8 hours

You can actual get a little more than 100x100 in a day. About 107'x107'. But whatever, I rounded.

Greenish
2010-02-20, 07:09 PM
100x100x5x7.48=374,000 gallons
374,000 gallons / 30 gallons per round = 12467 rounds
/10 = 1246.7 minutes
/60 = 20.8 hours

You can actual get a little more than 100x100 in a day. About 107'x107'. But whatever, I rounded.That's with one Decanter.

RandomNPC
2010-02-20, 08:43 PM
I think what everyone is trying to say is, you need to know the battle field ahead of time, and when the enemy gets there they have to willingly walk out into ten feet of water.

ya know what? It would be easier to put a permanent teleportation circle on a flying carpet and force teleport people to a lake with elementals waiting.

As a DM I would not allow the flying carpet thing, and it would still be easier.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-02-20, 09:26 PM
For this really work you need to make a costume out of aluminium foil and call yourself Professor Chaos (http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Professor_Chaos).

But then you can't use the geyser setting, and you can only use one decanter.

Beorn080
2010-02-20, 09:46 PM
It might be easier to just summon a gate to the Plane of Water facing down over the battlefield. Infinite plane of water = infinite water pressure at any given point. At least I assume it's infinite.

However, the real way to do this is with a portable hole and as many decanters as you can put in it. See, portable holes have no weight limit according to the SRD, and the decanters constantly create water. So, fill the hole with decanters, set them all to geyser or stream if you want to make it easier, albeit takes longer, and then sit around for a few weeks. Get to the battlefield, open the hole on the side of a house, and watch as several weeks of compressed water shoot out of the hole, flooding everything.

Also, remember that any underground cave is now free loot. Set your decanters to pour in, wait till it floods, then send in your elementals to help you loot.

Fortuna
2010-02-20, 09:54 PM
I really flippin' hope the plane of water doesn't have infinite pressure, because in that case no human could ever go there without serious protection. Infinity/Infinity need not equal Infinity.

A portable hole, huh? I believe your plan fails on the same grounds as the commoner railgun: mixing RL physics and D&D RAW.

The last one is a good point though :smallbiggrin:

Beorn080
2010-02-20, 09:58 PM
I don't think so, cause it isn't really violating physics like the Commoner Railgun. Presupposing the ability to create water, and presupposing the existence of pocket dimensions with one opening that can't be opened from the inside, it would be possible to create immense pressures of water inside said pocket dimension. Even if that doesn't specifically work, and it merely fills the portable hole, you can probably drop several hundred decanters in there, far more if you use those super paints to make even more room in it, all of which would be constantly pumping out water.

Heck, sovereign glue the decanters in, and you could have a personal water powered rocket.

NekoJoker
2010-02-20, 10:01 PM
It might be easier to just summon a gate to the Plane of Water facing down over the battlefield. Infinite plane of water = infinite water pressure at any given point. At least I assume it's infinite.

However, the real way to do this is with a portable hole and as many decanters as you can put in it. See, portable holes have no weight limit according to the SRD, and the decanters constantly create water. So, fill the hole with decanters, set them all to geyser or stream if you want to make it easier, albeit takes longer, and then sit around for a few weeks. Get to the battlefield, open the hole on the side of a house, and watch as several weeks of compressed water shoot out of the hole, flooding everything.

Also, remember that any underground cave is now free loot. Set your decanters to pour in, wait till it floods, then send in your elementals to help you loot.


That is really a very good answer, AS a DM myself i am borderline on accepting it for the sheer Cartoonish feel of the idea.

But nevertheless is much much more precise than just opening a bunch of decanters at the time

and about this
Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
For this really work you need to make a costume out of aluminium foil and call yourself Professor Chaos

(sorry I do not know how to quote more than 1 person at a time)

I laughed my head off, good call

Fortuna
2010-02-20, 10:21 PM
I don't think so, cause it isn't really violating physics like the Commoner Railgun. Presupposing the ability to create water, and presupposing the existence of pocket dimensions with one opening that can't be opened from the inside, it would be possible to create immense pressures of water inside said pocket dimension. Even if that doesn't specifically work, and it merely fills the portable hole, you can probably drop several hundred decanters in there, far more if you use those super paints to make even more room in it, all of which would be constantly pumping out water.

Heck, sovereign glue the decanters in, and you could have a personal water powered rocket.

Eh, I would call it borderline. I would also be very afraid for what/whoever opened the portable hole if you left it too long.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-02-21, 12:34 AM
Op: you're trying too hard. Sandstorm pg 114 has the spell flashflood which produces 100000 cubic feet of water in 1 round. Grab a couple of scrolls for your cleric buddy and you're set.

Edit: i forgot to mention that that's non-magical-never-goes-away water.

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-21, 12:52 AM
100 Square Feet is approx a 10x10 room. To fill such a room to a depth of 5 feet would require a total of 500 Cubic Feet of water, or 3735 gallons.

100 feet square is much bigger, at 50,000 cubic feet. For that, you'll need 373,500 gallons.

With 6 decanters at 30 gallons each per round? You're looking at 3.5 hours, give or take. Not unreasonable if you have a day to prepare the battlefield... Not reasonable otherwise.

Debihuman
2010-02-21, 09:10 AM
If I have an open area of at least 100 square feet, and I want to fill it with at least 5 feet of water how much time would I need?

Are you just trying to create a muddy battlefield or are you attempting to make a pool? Unless your area is in a basin, you'll never get it 5 feet deep. The water would spread beyond out your parameter unless it is somehow contained.

Furthermore, none of you aren't accounting for the fact that some of the water would sink into the soil, not simply float above it. This depends on how dry the soil is. Most battles don't take place in marshes, so the water would eventually be absorbed until the land were actually saturated enough to start flooding.

You might get a short flash flood but it wouldn't be 5 feet deep and the battlefield would likely drain quickly.
Debby

Alavar
2010-02-21, 09:52 AM
There was an old thread talking about physics on the Plane of Water, but I can't seem to find it(damn you 2 minute wait!). Essentially, because the entire plane is made of water, and gravity is subjective, there is no pressure. Creating a Gate or anything similar would actually push matter into the Plane. :smallconfused:

Of course, you could just summon a movable wall as a plane square to the gate, stand on top of it, and think downwards thoughts. Gravity works on you, and vila! Water jetting out!