Spell access.

[Orzel]

The OotS world seems to grant and handle spell casters access to spell in a weird but funny way.

1) It's heavy on the blasty spells. "Save or Bad stuff" spells are rare since they tend to be anticlimactic and therefore not funny. Everyone just shoots fire and lightning (because most combats involve hordes of level 1-5 chumps, maybe blasting is good).

2) Buffs are mostly signature moves and trump cards. Every wizard over level 6 probably has slots Fly multiple times but most other buffs have their pages stuck together in the spellbook or something.

3) Non-core spells only appear for humor or special situations. Belkar's low wisdom doesn't seem too bad since he probably wouldn't be casting Arrow Mind, Rhino's Rush, or Lion's Charge anyway.

4) There are either few magical craftsman or somebody Up There is against wands.

[Shale]

A-C-C-E-S-S.

Hey, somebody had to do it.

[Thor Person Guy]

I'm sure plenty of people use Buff spells. But which looks better: Fireball, or Bear's Endurance?

[Exterminatus]

I'm sure plenty of people use Buff spells. But which looks better: Fireball, or Bear's Endurance?

By that level it is Haste/Glitterdust.

[Morquard]

I don't think its as much a matter of availability, but a matter of personallity.
V is the only caster we're really following, and till recently V thought "unless i do it myself I was useless", so he rather did a fireball killing the mobs himself than buffing the allies so they can do it and safing the fireball for when it was really needed.

He changed that lately, after the Xykon fight. In the fight against the beetles he buffed mainly... well he still did blast away in the end, but that was sort of justified :)

The Linear Guild: In the Cliffport fight Sabine was buffed through the roof in the fight vs Roy... well just low duration stuff so eventually it expired and then she immediately surrendered. I guess the other members of the LG were buffed too

Xykon: in SOD he uses a ring to buff vs positive energy when he knew righteye was going to attack with that, he's also buffed vs fire, and apperently has fly on him all the time, and probably alot of other 24h buffs.

So yeah, people buff, its just not really shown, since an entire comic of showing buff spells is really really boring ;)

[Dr.Epic]

A-C-C-E-S-S.

Hey, somebody had to do it.

Should we go up a level or down a level?

[Morthis]

1) It's heavy on the blasty spells. "Save or Bad stuff" spells are rare since they tend to be anticlimactic and therefore not funny. Everyone just shoots fire and lightning (because most combats involve hordes of level 1-5 chumps, maybe blasting is good).

Well, storytelling like this does lend itself better to big damage spells instead of save or die spells (see RC vs Azure cleric battle), but I think it's also similar to the mindset of many inexperienced casters in D&D. They load up their spell slots with everything that does a lot of damage playing as a blaster, and they completely overlook incredibly powerful utility, save or die spells, etc.

A wizard can do some pretty good damage, no doubt, but that's not why they're considered so powerful and so useful in a party.


2) Buffs are mostly signature moves and trump cards. Every wizard over level 6 probably has slots Fly multiple times but most other buffs have their pages stuck together in the spellbook or something.

Again, I think this is somewhat pointing out the stereotypes. The arcane caster is busy spamming damage spells, the divine caster is a healer and nothing else. Durkon and V have the potential to be insanely powerful, but they don't realize their potential. This is probably done both to help storytelling (so that the oots characters are fairly even in power), and to play to the stereotype.


3) Non-core spells only appear for humor or special situations. Belkar's low wisdom doesn't seem too bad since he probably wouldn't be casting Arrow Mind, Rhino's Rush, or Lion's Charge anyway.

For the most part, oots seems to stick to core only. I think this is probably for the best. It's a lot easier to keep track of core mechanics without throwing in all the extra books.


4) There are either few magical craftsman or somebody Up There is against wands.

Xykon is supposed to craft a lot, although we haven't seen him use wands of scrolls. Magic items in general are under used. Same story with UMD. Such a powerful skill and neither Haley nor Elan appear to have it.

[Zxo]

I think much of the buffing happens off-screen - screen time or rather panel space is limited and buffs aren't interesting action-wise, so the Giant shows them only if they are part of a joke (like Belkar's Owl's Wisdom) or affect the battle in a major way. It's same with rolling initiative - it isn't mentioned unless it's funny or important, showing it every time a fight starts would be absolutely boring.

[factotum]

Again, I think this is somewhat pointing out the stereotypes. The arcane caster is busy spamming damage spells, the divine caster is a healer and nothing else.

That's certainly not true of Durkon--he's made extensive use of Thor's Lightning and Thor's Might during the course of the comic, plus we've seen him use the utility spell Wind Walk to get himself and Elan back to Greysky City and he used Control Weather to defeat Leeky Windstaff's trees. V *did* use buffs on the soldiers guarding the rift during the siege of Azure City, but as pointed out above, he generally prefers direct blasting because (until recently) he's all about the ultimate power of arcane force--if he buffs somebody else then that means his arcane magic wasn't capable of doing the job directly!

[Morthis]

That's certainly not true of Durkon--he's made extensive use of Thor's Lightning and Thor's Might during the course of the comic, plus we've seen him use the utility spell Wind Walk to get himself and Elan back to Greysky City and he used Control Weather to defeat Leeky Windstaff's trees. V *did* use buffs on the soldiers guarding the rift during the siege of Azure City, but as pointed out above, he generally prefers direct blasting because (until recently) he's all about the ultimate power of arcane force--if he buffs somebody else then that means his arcane magic wasn't capable of doing the job directly!

Sure Durkon has used some offensive power, but he still acts mostly like a healer. I don't think he's a terrible cleric, I just think he's really not taking full advantage of just how incredibly powerful clerics can be.

[Snake-Aes]

It is implied that Durkon always has a few buffs prepared, so it's reasonable to assume he's not exactly just a glorified healing potion. Overall though, it's just easier to portray the action directly, and it's within the common stereotypes.

The key here is that OOTS characters are NOT players (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0606.html). They are protagonists and have pc classes and all but they're still themselves, not someone playing them. The meta world of optimization is beyond their reach and as such they are good within what they perceive to be good.

[Orzel]

Every caster flies and blasts. The only ones who don't either can't fly, lack slots or caster levels, or partial casters. This make you wonder if the magic shop carries too many red spells or if the characters all devalue a lot of spells. Somebody except the twins can Charm, right? Slow? At a fire shield?

[Ancalagon]

And why should they change their ways?

Mostly, they fared quite well with how they do things... the even became level 13 to 15ish and thus are amongst the most powerful characters around.

[Morty]

The reason wizards tend to use such spells is that it's what wizards do in combat in the opinion of general public. For a non-D&D player, or someone who plays D&D but doesn't know or care which spells are better for a wizard or sorcerer, flying around and throwing lighting and fire is the expected course of action for a wizard in battle.

[Ancalagon]

There are also those who think it's simply cool and awesome to fly around and throw fire and lighting. Because, you know, it IS cool and awesome. ;)

[Snake-Aes]

There are also those who think it's simply cool and awesome to fly around and throw fire and lighting. Because, you know, it IS cool and awesome. ;)
yeah but someone actually intelligent and dedicated enough that is capable of flying and throwing meteors on people's faces can very well develop a more interesting method. Why would he kill those 60 warriors with a meteor if a much simpler poisonous fog would do the same?

[Ancalagon]

For the same reason the main-purpose of youtube is not a mean to create a better world full of qualified debates and free speech and political comments.

In the end, it's about funny cats and explosions.

The second section here is the reason you were looking for.

It's a game that is supposed to be fun, not some simulator where you get points for the clinically most effective way to do things.

Actually, I think Wizards in D&D are cool for the things they can do BESIDES battles and fighting. Fights are, in the 20th or 50th repetition, quite boring. You did all the cool things you always wanted to do... but doing stuff in RP or in non-fight-situations opens the real aspect where wizards can do cool and useful things with their enormous versatility.

Also, did I mention that flying and throwing fire is awesome and cool? As it the monks backflipping and kicking or an rogues "three arrows per round quickshooting".

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I think much of the buffing happens off-screen - screen time or rather panel space is limited and buffs aren't interesting action-wise, so the Giant shows them only if they are part of a joke (like Belkar's Owl's Wisdom) or affect the battle in a major way. It's same with rolling initiative - it isn't mentioned unless it's funny or important, showing it every time a fight starts would be absolutely boring.
Exactly!

I like the Initiative example, because, as near as I can recall, there have been only two (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html) explicit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) mentions of Initiative in the strip. Yet, I somehow think there have been more rolls for initiative than that.

Furthermore, we never saw V cast [url=http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html]mind blank, or some similar spell. For that matter, the same comic also shows an unexplained deflection bonus to Xykon’s AC (see V’s disintegrate in the 6th panel). These are both buffs that were added to the characters off-panel.

When it comes down to it, it would be a waste of space to point out every single buff ever in action at a time. Particularly in a comic that is already criticized for being heavy on walls of text. As such, it’s best to simply take care of most buff situations off-screen unless that buff should become plot-essential.

[Sinfonian]

Exactly!

I like the Initiative example, because, as near as I can recall, there have been only two (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html) explicit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) mentions of Initiative in the strip. Yet, I somehow think there have been more rolls for initiative than that.

How could you forget about Roland?
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html)

[Moogleking]

How could you forget about Roland?
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html)

:elan: Are we rolling initiative? I thought we were rolling initiative?

[Orzel]

Really I was talking about visual buffs, shape shifting, summoned monsters, conjured clouds, and things like that.
But everyone flies and shoots fire. I was so happy to see Leeky and Redcloak because at least they didn't fly and spam lightning.

[Hurkyl]

Furthermore, we never saw V cast [url=http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html]mind blank
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0638.html

[Spiky]

yeah but someone actually intelligent and dedicated enough that is capable of flying and throwing meteors on people's faces can very well develop a more interesting method. Why would he kill those 60 warriors with a meteor if a much simpler poisonous fog would do the same?

You just described Xykon.

I mean, he's not intelligent enough to do that.

[slayerx]

The OotS world seems to grant and handle spell casters access to spell in a weird but funny way.

1) It's heavy on the blasty spells. "Save or Bad stuff" spells are rare since they tend to be anticlimactic and therefore not funny. Everyone just shoots fire and lightning (because most combats involve hordes of level 1-5 chumps, maybe blasting is good).

2) Buffs are mostly signature moves and trump cards. Every wizard over level 6 probably has slots Fly multiple times but most other buffs have their pages stuck together in the spellbook or something.

3) Non-core spells only appear for humor or special situations. Belkar's low wisdom doesn't seem too bad since he probably wouldn't be casting Arrow Mind, Rhino's Rush, or Lion's Charge anyway.

4) There are either few magical craftsman or somebody Up There is against wands.

Well you have to recall what casters we have seen... for the most part our arcane casters are Xykon, V, and Tsukiko... Xykon is all about destruction and causing pain, so he would not bother knowing much in terms of buffs...Tsukiko is a teenager, simularly prefers the blasting spells... And V as well saw the destructive power of magic and loved and is only recently coming to to know that he could be using more support magic instead of just blasting everything

Point is, its not that magic works wierd, its just that our main sorces for magic power just plain preferred direct blasting magic, over the buffs and supportive magic

[Orzel]

How about we talk about the half casters? I know the Belkster can't and the Saphires don't; but with the comic being mostly core and there's few wands ... that leaves only the 1 obvious joke on availability. 2 if bring in the comparison.

If the new paladin or ranger appears with no spells, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Felyndiira]

It's important to remember, however: even though the characters do seem to like blasting, all of the casters that we've seen are clever enough to utilize alternate spells when the situation calls for it:

V has been shown to use enchantments and mage hands multiple times in the series. He has used dispel magic to great effect in the order's first battle against Linear Guild, utilized suggestion against the dragon (granted, out of necessity), used an equivalent of Evard's Black Tentacles against the chimera, utilized saving throw reducers against the giant devil, utilized dispel again against Leeky, ued multiple abjurations and buffs in Azure City, is a frequent user of transmutation magic, and used forcecage to buy himself time against the dragon. When he obtained the soul splice, he used shapechange, abjurations including disjunction, telekinesis, time stop, necromancy, bigby's grasping hand, and countless other non-evocation spells. He also used a strategy of counter-spelling against Samantha. In the comic, Tsukiko greatly favors necromancy magic and has been shown to use mind fog/conjuration orbs, and Xykon utilized insanity symbols, pain symbols, energy drain, buffs, and other non-blasting spells when the situation calls for it.

[Snake-Aes]

You just described Xykon.

I mean, he's not intelligent enough to do that.

That's the thing, Xykon does it the meteor way because it's cooler. Talking about efficiency, he could have done the same damage with a level 5 spell instead of a level 9 spell, if not MORE depending on how much control he has over the cloud's area of effect. But it's just not as cool.

[Beorn080]

Indeed, whats cooler? Whacking yourself with a meteor swarm to get out of a grasping hand, or a teleport?

[werik]

Thank you, Felyndiira, for remembering all of the numerous times that spells other than evocations were used.

Also, of course evocations are used a lot. They are visually appealing and make sense with the characters (an evoker and a sorcerer being the primary arcane spell casters).

Furthermore, I find the whole idea that evocation is an inferior specialization to be a misconception. I understand the whole "Batman-wizard" argument, and that the other members of the party can do a great deal of damage. But all that this argument really proves is that a wizard (or any spellcaster) should have a workable mixture of spells. A well prepared opponent can avoid you if you only favor one type of combat (whether as a spell caster or a non-caster), so it's always good to have other workable solutions. None of this proves that evocation is inferior or stupid to choose, only that common sense should be used in planning a character.