Half ooze template?

[kemmotar]

Hey guys, this is my first time venturing into hombrewing territory so I'm not sure if it's good form to ask opinions on how to stat something out without giving some base. If not I'll head over to the gameplay thread, it seemed to me more thematically appropriate to start here though. Any and all help is appreciated.:smallsmile:

So here goes. My DM and I came up with a fun idea which invovles me playing a half ooze character. This originated from a running gag in our games where the DM threatens to turn me into an ooze. However, since an actual ooze would be more disrupting to the party with its low speed and no intelligence we thought it might be fun without being much of a problem to the party. Our games with that DM are not really serious and more fun oriented so there shouldn't be much of a problem with appearance etc.

On the other hand I'm very bad at balancing and choosing abilities when creating monsters etc (probably because I haven't had any any serious practice). Thus I turn to you for help.

As to the origin of a half ooze, that will be left to the DM and we can assume it's going to be something like "a wizard did it". The main trait of an ooze probably is immunity to crits and precision damage, though looking at the warforged it shouldn't be a problem LA wise. Some premises, if possible I'd like it be of a playable LA (1-3), recognisable as vaguely humanoid and not too weak, though I have no idea where I should start and how not to gimp the template or make it too overpowered (if such a thing is possible with an ooze[?]).

Any ideas?

[The Dark Fiddler]

I think there was such a template somewhere... can't recall where though.

If you don't mind having a race instead of a template, I might take a crack at it. Sounds fun. :smallamused:

[DragoonWraith]

Living Spells are oozes, and I made an Awakened Living Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129663) race, if you'd like.

[kemmotar]

If you don't mind having a race instead of a template, I might take a crack at it. Sounds fun. :smallamused:

I wouldn't mind, would actually make more sense I guess.


Living Spells are oozes, and I made an Awakened Living Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129663) race, if you'd like.

Hmm...bookmarked for future reference. It looks very very interesting and there's just too many combinations to consider....tasty.

Though it doesn't fit with the particular idea since we were considering a "normal" ooze, I'm certainly going to try it when I get a chance, thanks for the reference:smallbiggrin:

[DragoonWraith]

Well, you might steal the Ooze (Centralized) type that I made there; it's kind of like the Living Construct type for Warforged, nerfing some of the advantages of Oozes to make them a reasonable player race.

[Debihuman]

The closest is the Gelatinous Creature from Savage Species (page 116). I've actually used that when I made the Lethargians (using goblins as a base seen here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5585500&postcount=5.

[kemmotar]

The problem with gelatinous template is that it drops intelligence to 1 and is very underwhelming and also the entry specifies that it's not meant to be used by PCs since it isn't sentient.

The centralized ooze seems like a good concept, it actually solves a lot of problems. For a more normal ooze it could be something like pseudopods since they aren't powered by magic as living spells. Though it does create some vulnerabilities (SA, crit) this could actually be valuable to reduce total LA?

The sensory perception part also looks interesting. Blindsight would probably hinder the build a bit LA wise so making it have "normal" senses that are more difficult to block but with a definite drawback. Also sounds like fun roleplaying it...hehe

[jokey665]

There's "Ooze Elemental Creature" from some issue of Dragon. I'm pretty sure it's on Crystal Keep

[UserShadow7989]

After reading this topic, I decided to throw together a Living Ooze race. I'm aiming for LA +0, if possible:

Slimemen

Slimemen are a race of magically born beings. As their name suggests, these creatures are composed entirely of living slime. They are few and far between, most being born from the results of a particularly powerful case of arcane spell failure with a few being born from another, less intelligent ooze species. Because of their nature, they're very sensitive to the arcane.

Personality: Slimemen have no set or common personality traits. Their are as varied as humans.

Physical Description: A slimeman is just that; a humanoid made of slime. Their bodies are completely transparent, with features faintly reminiscent of other humanoids. These features are never detailed, just shaped enough to give a notion of ears, nose, eyes, mouth. They can control the shapes of their bodies with sufficient time and concentration, enough to change features, color, or imitate clothing, but not enough to form into non humanoid shapes such as an object or animal.

Alignment: Slimemen tend towards chaos or neutrality, though there's not enough to make a broad statement.

Slimemen Lands: Slimemen claim no territory as a race, but are more common in areas and plains with a high concentration of arcane energies.

Religion: Slimemen have no favored religion, but there are several that are religious.

Language: A slimeman is more likely to speak common then anything else, but any language is fair play.

====Traits as a Player Race====
+2 Dexterity, -2 Strength. A slimeman has fluid control over their body and it's shape, but lack of solid muscle and bone hinders more difficult physical tasks. They can still carry and use weapons and other items, despite this.
Monstrous Humanoid: As monstrous humanoids, slimemen are immune to spells and effects that specifically target humanoids.
Slimemen have a base land speed of 25. Despite having the same size as a human, it's movements require more complex thought to keep track of every piece of themselves as opposed to a limited by comparison set of muscles.
A Slimeman is not subject to critical hits or flanking. They have no set forms to exploit, or that are more integral to their being.
+1 to saves against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
+1 to skill checks to identify or locate objects with an arcane connotation.
Slimemen's bodies are particularly sensitive to the flow of magic. Slimemen receive a -2 penalty to all saves against a magical effect.
Slimemen must eat and breathe, but while capable of sleeping do not need rest to function.
Automatic languages: Common
Bonus languages: None
Favored Class: None. Slimemen have no favored lifestyles or particularly useful abilities that would lend to a class.

[DracoDei]

I have seen SOMETHING along these approximate lines on these forums, but I couldn't tell you where to find it...

While not even vaguely humanoid, may I suggest that giving your character a Masooze (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5747998#post5747998) hireling/follower/cohort would be entertaining?

Because being followed around by a powder blue mass of protoplasm that gives full-body spa treatments just sounds entertaining.

[Debihuman]

The problem with gelatinous template is that it drops intelligence to 1 and is very underwhelming and also the entry specifies that it's not meant to be used by PCs since it isn't sentient.

Oozes are generally mindless but they don't have to be. I don't see a problem with more intelligent half oozes. Plus, you still have to deal with the ick factor. Half-ooze PCs would get slime all over their equipment and it can't be good for things like cloth, paper, musical instruments, most weapons, etc.

The first question is does becoming a half-ooze change your type to Ooze (augmented X)? If so, then you can keep most of your prior abilities. Here are the ooze traits:

Ooze Traits

An ooze possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).


Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Blind (but have the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
Some oozes have the ability to deal acid damage to objects. In such a case, the amount of damage is equal to 10 + ½ ooze’s HD + ooze’s Con modifier per full round of contact.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
Proficient with its natural weapons only.
Proficient with no armor.
Oozes eat and breathe, but do not sleep.


Which traits would you suggest keeping for the half-ooze and which should be jettisoned?

In regards to the slimemen, it appears that they cannot use any weapons. That sucks for a race. I'm not even sure they would have any physical attacks at all from their description.

Debby

[The Dark Fiddler]

Well, here's my whack at a humanoid-ooze race. I based it off the Jell from Monster Rancher, as far as looks, if it matters.

Jell

The Jell are a race of humanoid oozes. Nobody knows quite where they come from.

Personality: Jell are incredibly varied, personality wise. Most, however, are self-serving to some extent.

Physical Description: Jell are, as previously stated, Oozes in a humanoid shape. The are slightly translucent, but are in deep, strong colors, such as dark blue. Roughly at where the waste of a human would be, a Jell's form stops being as formed, and instead is mostly just a blob.

Alignment: Jell are usually True Neutral, caring not for much beyond themselves.

Jell Lands: Jell are too rare to have their own lands, and mostly ive wherever they can find residence.

Religion: Jell are usually non-religious, but those who do worship are varied in their religions.

Language: Jell speak few languages, usually, but most will know common.

Jell Racial Features
• -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity: A Jell is easily able to manipulate its appendages, but lacking any rigid structure cannot exert as much force as other races.
• Shaped Ooze (Humanoid): As a Shaped Ooze (Humanoid), Jell are affected by any spells or effects that would affect either an Ooze or a Humanoid.
• Jell have a base land speed of 20 feet.
• Jell, because they lack true organs, are resistant to critical hits, sneak attacks, and similar abilities. Any such attack has a 50% chance to fail against a Jell.
• Tremorsense out to 30 feet.
• Jell lack legs. As such, they cannot use any equipment or abilities requiring the use of legs or feet.
• +2 to saves against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, gaze attacks, and stunning.
• +2 to Climb, Escape Artist, and Open Lock checks because of their amorphous nature. Additionally, a Jell may use the Open Lock check without any tool, as they themselves are considered a tool.
• -4 to Jump checks and to Balance checks made to cross thin surfaces. Jell are not good at leaving the ground by their own force, and will often, because of their amorphous form, slip off of thin surfaces.
• +2 natural armor bonus, and 2 DR/-.
• Jell interact strangely with armor. Any armor that a Jell is wearing is slightly less effective, granting one less armor bonus to the Jell’s Armor Class. However, the Armor Check Penalty is also one less, and the Arcane Spell Failure chance is decreased by 5%.
• Jell must eat and breathe, but while capable of sleeping do not need rest to function.
• Jell do not age or accrue the stat changes from aging. However, they still die of old age when they reach the age of 200 + 1d%.
• Automatic languages: Common
• Bonus languages: None
• Favored Class: Any

Shaped Ooze (x) (Type)
A Shaped Ooze has the following racial traits, unless otherwise noted in their entries:

• Shaped Ooze are affected by all spells and effects what would affect an Ooze or their second type. For example, a Shaped Ooze (Animal) would be affected by any spells that work on Oozes or Animals.
• Shaped Ooze have bonuses to saves or immunity to against poisons, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, gaze attacks, and stunning.
• Tremorsense out to 30 feet.
• 50% resistance to critical hits, sneak attacks, and similar.
• Proficient with any weapons and armor it is described as using in its entry.
• Must eat and breathe, but do not need to sleep.
• Shaped Ooze gain the HD, BAB, saves, and skills of their second type for racial hit dice.

It was a rather quick homebrew, so I'm sure it can be improved, but I think I did pretty good. Also, I can see feats for increasing the DR and Natural Armor, a la Warforged, but I won't make them myself.

[kemmotar]

Ooze Traits

An ooze possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).


Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Blind (but have the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
Some oozes have the ability to deal acid damage to objects. In such a case, the amount of damage is equal to 10 + ½ ooze’s HD + ooze’s Con modifier per full round of contact.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
Proficient with its natural weapons only.
Proficient with no armor.
Oozes eat and breathe, but do not sleep.




Mindless: I think we can deal with that through the involvement of a spell designed to awaken oozes much like awakening animals. Though it would be kind of anatomically confusing to give an ooze normal sentience, so blaming it on magic is probably the way to go.
Blind: I like centralized ooze, it gives it humanoid form and "normal" senses but with a few benefits as to resistance. Blindsight, although good as a secondary sense, if it's the primary sense of a PC it can more often be a disadvantage.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning: I think that should come with ooze territory.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking: as above
Acid damage: We could keep that but remove the slam attack since it takes a humanoid form, but it's pseudopod hands and legs count as natural weapons.
Proficient with no armor and weapons: since it would deal acid damage to normal weapons, perhaps only magic items can be attuned to the ooze's body in the same way that magic items (rings etc) change to fit the size of the wearer?
Oozes eat and breathe but do not sleep: Oozes eat by digesting any kind of biological matter, this could be food, chairs, rubbish..anything, as long as it is biological. Breathing, I don't really see how oozes breathe, I think we can leave that tho, perhaps a bonus for holding their breath? As to sleeping, perhaps 4 hours of rest like elves?


Ideas:

Engulf: I keep getting this funny image, goblin or orc walkes up to the halfooze in a bar and starts dissing it, whereupon the half ooze proceeds to enter the same space and engulf him. In the meantime it starts digesting it while playing poker and spitting out random items of equipment from different parts of his body. I'm thinking half ooze should be a medium creatur but with powerful build and rules similar to grapple (since a half ooze being humanoid like can't just walk over something as it's anatomy isn't made for that). Melee touch attack, grapple check. If grapple check succeeds the creature is engulfed and thereafter every round it must make a grapple check to get out. Every round that a creature is engulfed it takes 2-3x the acid damage of the ooze's touch attack (the logic being that it's inside the very same thing with whom the slightest contact causes said amount of acid damage, it makes sense that when very part of it is covered it would take more damage) and also suffocates.
Question: would the acid damage count as extra damage on a hit with a natural attack? (Yep I'm thinking monk)
as to whether the type changes to ooze, I would say yes. In fact it becomes more ooze than anything else, perhaps in template form it just retains the initial form's characteristics and non-physical stats, except size. Physical stats usually rely on the actual composition of the body which is "decomposed" into ooze matter.
For the purposes of this template, I think we can jettison mindless altogether without much explanation. Magic needs none after all:smalltongue:
Thus type changes to ooze but the PC retains vaguely it's original form, though the whole body is change to ooze matter.
If it's a race the same as above might apply but with the difference that since the half ooze is intelligent it can micromanage its matter to imitate some forms and expressions depending on its intelligence+wisdom(or int alone) score?
I have no idea how to explain how they should speak...
Lastly, I think oozes should get a bonus to bluff checks inversely proportionate to their wisdom+int(or int alone) score since having a high score in those would allow them to imitate, consciously and subconsciously, the appropriate facial expressions. Say it starts with a +4 at low scores to a +0 in higher scores? The logic behind it is that since they don't have/know what is the appropriate facial expressions it's more difficult to discern whether they are lying or not.


Also, I really like the massooze cohort idea, I already figured out how to run it...haha...this is gonna be so much fun in so many silly ways...

[NemoUtopia]

Some ideas for half-oozes:

The ideas for most half-races is that you get some powerful but not overwhelming benefits from the creature type. The most amazing abilities come from LA +3 and +4 creatures in the forms of special attack forms, damage reduction, and crazy stat bonuses. LA +2 (as a baseline) are creatures like Drow and the winged template. It's possible to gain moderate spell-like abilities, spell resistance, one high or a variety of smaller stat bonuses, and new movement forms. LA +1 creatures are those like the Planetouched (Aasimar, Tieflings, Gensai) and Psionic races; able to gain varied benefits with certain drawbacks. The ability to breathe water (or not breathe at all), +4 stat bonuses accompanied by a stat penalty, and minor spell-like abilities or a single 1/day useful spell-like ability are not uncommon. LA +0 at its most basic trades stats equally, or unfavorably for the character as a means to get a particular ability. Sensory forms, conditional bonuses, and cantrips/orisons fall under this LA level, with movement being 'standard' or lower. Subtypes and new types are seen across the range.

So I'd look at this in terms of an LA scalar:
+0 - Ooze Touched
+1 - Gelatinous
+2 - Ooze Men
+3 - Amorphous
+4 - Half-ooze

or something similar. Certain mental benefits (like resistance to enchantment and immunity to sleep) already have precedent at LA 0. We can also pull from the Living Construct subtype for inspiration. I'll weigh in more after poring a bit over the monstrous manual and savage species to get a better feel on Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid, Augmented Humanoid, Native Outsider, Abberation, and Ooze types.

[Milskidasith]

Some ideas for half-oozes:

The ideas for most half-races is that you get some powerful but not overwhelming benefits from the creature type. The most amazing abilities come from LA +3 and +4 creatures in the forms of special attack forms, damage reduction, and crazy stat bonuses. LA +2 (as a baseline) are creatures like Drow and the winged template. It's possible to gain moderate spell-like abilities, spell resistance, one high or a variety of smaller stat bonuses, and new movement forms. LA +1 creatures are those like the Planetouched (Aasimar, Tieflings, Gensai) and Psionic races; able to gain varied benefits with certain drawbacks. The ability to breathe water (or not breathe at all), +4 stat bonuses accompanied by a stat penalty, and minor spell-like abilities or a single 1/day useful spell-like ability are not uncommon. LA +0 at its most basic trades stats equally, or unfavorably for the character as a means to get a particular ability. Sensory forms, conditional bonuses, and cantrips/orisons fall under this LA level, with movement being 'standard' or lower. Subtypes and new types are seen across the range.

So I'd look at this in terms of an LA scalar:
+0 - Ooze Touched
+1 - Gelatinous
+2 - Ooze Men
+3 - Amorphous
+4 - Half-ooze

or something similar. Certain mental benefits (like resistance to enchantment and immunity to sleep) already have precedent at LA 0. We can also pull from the Living Construct subtype for inspiration. I'll weigh in more after poring a bit over the monstrous manual and savage species to get a better feel on Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid, Augmented Humanoid, Native Outsider, Abberation, and Ooze types.

Uhh... Drow are horrible for LA2, as is the winged template. The LA 1 races you listed are all LA 0 if you take lesser planetouched.

Also, to the slime creature: Bonus Languages shouldn't be none, because that makes it literally impossible for them to learn any languages from a high intelligence score. Maybe put it as "all?"

[NemoUtopia]

Uhh... Drow are horrible for LA2, as is the winged template. The LA 1 races you listed are all LA 0 if you take lesser planetouched.

Also, to the slime creature: Bonus Languages shouldn't be none, because that makes it literally impossible for them to learn any languages from a high intelligence score. Maybe put it as "all?"

I'm just using them as baseline in the system. In practice, like you say, many are 1 LA lower. I agree with the languages, or perhaps 'as base creature, not including secret languages (such as Druidic)'?

[UserShadow7989]

In regards to the slimemen, it appears that they cannot use any weapons. That sucks for a race. I'm not even sure they would have any physical attacks at all from their description.

Debby

What makes you say that? They're meant to be capable of using weapons like any other race.

Also, I think the Jell race is better then mine. Though I question giving it Tremorsense. That's a very powerful ability, if memory serves.

[Debihuman]

What makes you say that? They're meant to be capable of using weapons like any other race.

Also, I think the Jell race is better then mine. Though I question giving it Tremorsense. That's a very powerful ability, if memory serves.

This is what made may say it: "A slimeman has fluid control over their body and it's shape, but lack solid muscle or bone structures that would assist in physical tasks." Not being able to perform physical tasks kinda rules out being able to pick up and use weapons now doesn't it?

Debby

[UserShadow7989]

This is what made may say it: "A slimeman has fluid control over their body and it's shape, but lack solid muscle or bone structures that would assist in physical tasks." Not being able to perform physical tasks kinda rules out being able to pick up and use weapons now doesn't it?

Debby

Oh. My bad, I was trying to explain the STR penalty and made it sound like they were incapable of anything. I'll edit it to make it less suggestive.

[kemmotar]

Ok so I was thinking:

Half ooze (descriptions to come later):

Centralized ooze
Ooze traits (immunity to precision damage)
Acid touch (including natural attack) deals 1d6 points of acid damage (perhaps increases with HD?)
Powerful build (or different name, same mechanic..perhaps expansive)
Engulf: while in a grapple instead of pinning its opponent a half-ooze may instead engulf him dealing unarmed damage as well as acid damage equal to it's acid touch damage and suffocates the target. If the engulfed opponent falls to 0 or below hit-points, it has been digested by the acid inside the half-ooze. A half-ooze can only engulf creatures up to it's size or smaller. While a creature which is the size of the half-ooze or one size smaller is being engulfed the half-ooze cannot move or take any actions as it becomes essentially amorphous in order to cover the creature and prevent it from escaping and does not its dexterity bonus, if any, to AC.
centralized ooze senses: The half-ooze is blind but can feel sound and light in order to see and hear as a human would. However, if its face cannot be exposed to light or sound it loses that sense.
Immunity to acid
Natural attack: pseudopod, a half-ooze can extend any part of its body in order to make an attack at its normal range at 1d8 damage+acid damage.


What would you change and how much LA do you think this would merit?
Also, how would you deal with the problem of clothing since normal clothing would burn off the second the half-ooze touched it, without expending too much money?

Also, I think as to magic items, half-oozes should not carry weapons or wear armor (unless it is exotic armor specifically made for the purpose). But the problem remains as to smaller magic items. I'm contemplating that placing them inside the ooze (normal amount of slots apply) will enable it to gain the benefit, but how do you prevent them from burning up without their price skyrocketing?

[Vizzerdrix]

Ah HA! Found it! In the underdark book. Page 18. The Slyth are a race that can assume an amorphous form a few times a day and have ooze heritage.

Crap. Sorry for the necro posting. I meant to post this in another topic about oozes, but forgot I was in this topic after searching for an old post of mine.