View Full Version : [4e] Arcane Implement Proficiency vs 'Wield [class] implements'.

R. Shackleford
2010-02-20, 11:09 PM
I'm playing a game as a Half-Elf Bard, and at first, the DM didn't allow multiclassing. I was playing a Valorous Bard with a slight Melee bent, so my weapon was also my implement, a songblade.

Apparently, in order to get this to work correctly, I needed to take Arcane Implement Proficiency as a feat at some point. I don't remember why I needed to, which is the first question. That's more of a theoretical problem, I supposed.

The DM recently ruled that Bards can be exempt from the Multiclass rule, because 'that's their whole shtick.' Go figure. Anyways, I want to multiclass into Swordmage since I already took Sword Burst and Improved Dilettante. I retrained into the Multiclass feat, and now I want to retrain into Acolyte Power, and the only feat I have open to me to switch out would be Arcane Implement Proficiency.

Now, I'm pretty sure that taking Blade Initiate, which lets me wield Swordmage Implements makes AIP redundant.

Is this right?

Mando Knight
2010-02-21, 02:25 AM
...If your weapon is a songblade and your DM demands that you take Arcane Implement Proficiency to use it as a bard implement, that's something you'll have to take up with him. Bring your PHB2.

However, Blade Initiate should give you access to your songblade as an implement for Swordmage powers, including ones you get from Dilettante. The current version of the Character Builder backs me up on this.

2010-02-21, 03:07 AM
You should probably hope your DM realizes that Bards can already take as many Multiclass feats as they want, because that's one of their class features, and also that Songblades can be used as an implement for Bard powers as part of their item description.

Well, or just tell him...

Anyway, multiclassing into Swordmage as a Bard can be fun and profitable as long as you've got the INT. More of a Cunning Bard thing, but it'll probably still be good. A Songblade is a blade, so it counts as a Swordmage implement.

Which means you can just take the MC Swordmage feat, and you're practically all set!

2010-02-21, 04:24 PM
Now, while you don't need to take an extra proficiency for a Bard to use a Songblade as an implement (it's in the item text) this does not mean a Bard can use any Sword as an Implement. Nor can a HE Bard use his Songblade to power his Dilettante Scorching Burst.

That said, take Arcane Implement Proficiency over any MC. Why? Because AIP makes your chosen Implement compatible with all of your powers. Half-Elves get a lot of mileage out of this (hey, I can now Eyebite with my Songblade!) but there's more than that.

For example, a Goliath Dragon Sorcerer can use his Goliath Weapon Training mixed with AIP to start using a Greatsword for his powers :smallbiggrin:

...and while you can't use Blade Channeling to turn your Sorcerer powers into melee Greatsword attacks, you do get the +2 damage bonus and something useful to swing for OAs.

R. Shackleford
2010-02-21, 08:16 PM
The DM in that particular game says that he thinks Multiclassing breaks the game. He based this on 3.5, and not 4e. I decided to not push the matter, since they invited me to their game and all. Someone else brought it to light a week ago, and there you go.

Thanks for the help!

Now I can retrain and think of what to use my level 16 feat on.

2010-02-21, 08:19 PM
The DM in that particular game says that he thinks Multiclassing breaks the game. He based this on 3.5, and not 4e.
He's very wrong on this from a 3.5e perspective, too. Just so you know.