Sneak attacking and some general feat questions(3.5)

[DarkEternal]

Just wondering if someone can explain some things about it more to me, because I couldn't find it well described in the PhB. It says sneak attack doesn't work against certain types of creatures, and that's alright.

Now, in my party there is a halfling rogue and he sneak attacks dragons(who, at least those in the last campaign were not immune to said thing). What I am interested is the part where it says that the character needs to be tall enough to reach it's vitals. So basically, how many size categories can he reach? From my understanding, the best he can reach needs to be at most two size categories larger(so basically, he can't sneak anything larger then Large), right?

Also, any other rules? I know there's something about not being able to sneak attack stuff in concealment, does it also include stuff in cover?

Also, a Fighter in the party took a Dirty Fighting feat. In the book where it is described, (I think it's "Sword and Fist") it says it adds 1d4 to your attacks. Now, does it add to your full attack or standard attack as well? Also, if the fighter is a sufficient level to have more attacks per round, does he get a Dirty Fighting damage for each of his attacks?(For instance, three attacks per round meands 1d4 extra damage for each attack?)

Also interested in Poison applying, how does it work in some cases? Basically, a ranger and rogue took the Craft(Poison) skill, quite a few ranks in it, and I know the basics on how it works to create, but more about the applying. If a ranger for instance wants to apply it to his arrows, how many arrows can he use the poison on with a single dose/vial? And does he need to roll a percentage of failure for each arrow if it is for the entire quiver or something?

[KillianHawkeye]

Now, in my party there is a halfling rogue and he sneak attacks dragons(who, at least those in the last campaign were not immune to said thing). What I am interested is the part where it says that the character needs to be tall enough to reach it's vitals. So basically, how many size categories can he reach? From my understanding, the best he can reach needs to be at most two size categories larger(so basically, he can't sneak anything larger then Large), right?

Also, any other rules? I know there's something about not being able to sneak attack stuff in concealment, does it also include stuff in cover?

There isn't a specific rule about the size of creatures affecting Sneak Attack. It's basically up to the DM to say when it won't work. For example, a halfling can't Sneak Attack a giant if it can't reach higher than its knees, but if he can fly or climb higher he can Sneak Attack as normal.

Concealment disallows Sneak Attack because you must be able to clearly see the target. Cover has no effect, it just makes the attack more difficult.


Also, a Fighter in the party took a Dirty Fighting feat. In the book where it is described, (I think it's "Sword and Fist") it says it adds 1d4 to your attacks. Now, does it add to your full attack or standard attack as well? Also, if the fighter is a sufficient level to have more attacks per round, does he get a Dirty Fighting damage for each of his attacks?(For instance, three attacks per round meands 1d4 extra damage for each attack?)

According to Sword & Fist, Dirty Fighting requires a Full-Attack action and grants you only one attack (which deals an extra 1d4 points of damage). It is not at all compatible with making multiple attacks.


Also interested in Poison applying, how does it work in some cases? Basically, a ranger and rogue took the Craft(Poison) skill, quite a few ranks in it, and I know the basics on how it works to create, but more about the applying. If a ranger for instance wants to apply it to his arrows, how many arrows can he use the poison on with a single dose/vial? And does he need to roll a percentage of failure for each arrow if it is for the entire quiver or something?

For poison, 1 dose = 1 attack. If you are applying poison to 20 arrows, you need 20 doses, and you must check for the possibility of poisoning yourself 20 times (unless you have the Assassin's Poison Use ability or similar).


P.S. Love your user name! :smallbiggrin:

[AslanCross]

Just wondering if someone can explain some things about it more to me, because I couldn't find it well described in the PhB. It says sneak attack doesn't work against certain types of creatures, and that's alright.

Now, in my party there is a halfling rogue and he sneak attacks dragons(who, at least those in the last campaign were not immune to said thing). What I am interested is the part where it says that the character needs to be tall enough to reach it's vitals. So basically, how many size categories can he reach? From my understanding, the best he can reach needs to be at most two size categories larger(so basically, he can't sneak anything larger then Large), right?

Also, any other rules? I know there's something about not being able to sneak attack stuff in concealment, does it also include stuff in cover?


Vertical reach (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm) is described here. Whether the creature can be sneaked is up to the DM. Stabbing a giant in the femoral artery is a vital spot, I'd say---even if your halfling rogue is simply attacking his legs.

You could rule that a creature behind cover (say, around a corner) has his vitals outside of reach easily enough.



Also, a Fighter in the party took a Dirty Fighting feat. In the book where it is described, (I think it's "Sword and Fist") it says it adds 1d4 to your attacks. Now, does it add to your full attack or standard attack as well? Also, if the fighter is a sufficient level to have more attacks per round, does he get a Dirty Fighting damage for each of his attacks?(For instance, three attacks per round meands 1d4 extra damage for each attack?)

I need to see the actual text quote. I don't have that many 3.0 books.


Also interested in Poison applying, how does it work in some cases? Basically, a ranger and rogue took the Craft(Poison) skill, quite a few ranks in it, and I know the basics on how it works to create, but more about the applying. If a ranger for instance wants to apply it to his arrows, how many arrows can he use the poison on with a single dose/vial? And does he need to roll a percentage of failure for each arrow if it is for the entire quiver or something?


One dose of poison smeared on a weapon or some other object affects just a single target. A poisoned weapon or object retains its venom until the weapon scores a hit or the object is touched (unless the poison is wiped off before a target comes in contact with it). Any poison smeared on an object or exposed to the elements in any way remains potent until it is touched or used.

One vial of poison per attack. That's why it's often derided as too expensive to be a common tactic if you buy all your poison.

[noiadodh]

I need to see the actual text quote. I don't have that many 3.0 books.


"Benefit: Make a melee attack roll normally. If successful, you inflict an additional +1d4 points of damage. This feat requires the full attack action."

[DarkEternal]

I see. Sneak attacking is a complicated mess...Basically, it's a lot up to the DM to see if he can allow people to sneak attack huge arse beasts without making some sort of checks first(be it with jumping or having fly cast on them).


As for the Dirty Fighting, the description given above is correct. I was more inclined if it counts for every attack in the full attack option. Basically, first slash is with a sword, followed by a dirty attack(let's say a knee to the groin), second slash followed by a gauntlet to the throat and third attack with a shield bash or something, or is it three attacks and one dirty attack added in the end?

[DragoonWraith]

The DM should allow Sneak Attack pretty much as often as reasonable. Denying a Rogue Sneak Attack, especially on random pretenses not spelled out in the rules, seems to me like singling you out for no good reason. A Sneak Attack could just as easily be directed at an artery in the leg, or an important tendon, or anything else - it's left vague, and it's up to the DM to figure out how it is possible. And it should be. The rules don't say it's not, and more importantly there's no good reason why it would not be.

There is no special attack roll to hit a "vital", which means if you can hit the target behind cover, then you can hit something that triggers Sneak Attack damage.

[gorfnab]

Here are some links that explain sneak attack very nicely and in great detail:
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part One) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040217a)
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part Two) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a)
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part Three) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a)
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part Four) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a)

[ericgrau]

You can move through the square of a creature 3 sizes larger than you, so that's probably the size where you might not be able to reach its belly. A huge creature is only 16-32 feet tall, and I'd guess the dragon's belly is about 1/4 that height. So at 4-8 feet the halfling still might not reach its vitals. But it's an easy jump check to still hit it. Or you could always carry a ranged weapon. I mean, are you going to be flanking this beast? And blindfight, a favorite dragon feat, prevents invisible melee sneak attacks.

As for allowing sneak attack as much as possible, that's more of a house rule. Otherwise you still have undead, constructs so on to deal with. Some people homebrew that away, but it is a major change in rogue damage output that strays from the original game. There's no reason to suddenly allow sneak attack on very large beasts unless you also allow it on everything else.

[ScionoftheVoid]

As for allowing sneak attack as much as possible, that's more of a house rule. Otherwise you still have undead, constructs so on to deal with. Some people homebrew that away, but it is a major change in rogue damage output that strays from the original game. There's no reason to suddenly allow sneak attack on very large beasts unless you also allow it on everything else.

I think the point is that since sneak attack only activates under certain circumstances and is invalidated by concealment, specific abilities (e.g. amorphous form, IIRC) and multiple creature types denying it more often without absolutely solid rules behind it is rather pointless, it won't turn up very often anyway. Later in the game many creatures already have protections against certain ways of gaining ways of getting SA, ruling that they're too big to hit the vitals of is overkill for a class which is only high tier 4 to begin with. There is also the point that halflings are meant to be great rogues but aren't, penalising them further for being Small is just mean. If you can reach it you can probably hit it for SA, it can be a more effective hit merely because it was unexpected. Hit points measure willingness to fight, not nececcarily (correct spelling, please?) how wounded someone is.

[Temotei]

"Benefit: Make a melee attack roll normally. If successful, you inflict an additional +1d4 points of damage. This feat requires the full attack action."

My...that's underpowered.

[Starbuck_II]

That is typical of Complete Warrior: great idea but bad execution. hey should make it a standard action or not limit it to 1 attack.
Standard: supports Spring attack
All attacks: supports full attackers.

[Temotei]

That is typical of Complete Warrior: great idea but bad execution. hey should make it a standard action or not limit it to 1 attack.
Standard: supports Spring attack
All attacks: supports full attackers.

I'd make it at least +1d6 as well.

[Boci]

That is typical of Complete Warrior: great idea but bad execution.

Its not in complete warrior, sword and fist I think.



As for allowing sneak attack as much as possible, that's more of a house rule. Otherwise you still have undead, constructs so on to deal with. Some people homebrew that away, but it is a major change in rogue damage output that strays from the original game. There's no reason to suddenly allow sneak attack on very large beasts unless you also allow it on everything else.

I wouldn't call it a houserule to allow rogues to always reach vitals. Creatures or conditions that that render SA impossible are spelt out. Taking a vague sentance and giving it a clear in game aplication sounds a lot more like a house rule to me.
Besides, as others have said, there are arteries and muscles all over the body.