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View Full Version : 3.5 a question about bard song and good hope



pasko77
2010-02-21, 09:41 AM
If i'm not wrong, both bard song and good hope provide a morale bonus, so they don't stack, and they are pretty much the same. Good hope gives +2, and you get it around the same level in which your bard song also gives +2.

So, what's the point in filling a whole spell slot (of which bards have really few) with good hope? Is there something i'm missing, or it's just "saving songs and last a little longer"?

Furhtermore, unless non-core sources that allow me to trade songs for spells or whatever, I have a lot more bardic songs than 3rd level spells, so I'm not using a spell for something I can do singing.

Tyger
2010-02-21, 10:14 AM
Yeah, I would agree that Good Hope is not the most optimal spell choice, especially considering the limited number of spell slots Bards have to work with. But for the record, Good Hope does buff things that Inspire Courage doesn't.


Good Hope
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: One living creature/level, no two of which may be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell instills powerful hope in the subjects. Each affected creature gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls.

Good hope counters and dispels crushing despair.

Bolded portions are mine. So really, its a combination of Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence and a few other handy tricks.

+2 to pretty much every roll the party will make in combat is not a bad idea. Not the best idea, but not bad.

pasko77
2010-02-21, 11:28 AM
Yeah, I would agree that Good Hope is not the most optimal spell choice, especially considering the limited number of spell slots Bards have to work with. But for the record, Good Hope does buff things that Inspire Courage doesn't.



Bolded portions are mine. So really, its a combination of Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence and a few other handy tricks.

+2 to pretty much every roll the party will make in combat is not a bad idea. Not the best idea, but not bad.

Sure, but skill checks are covered by inspire competence, so, really, non overlapped part is just to saving throws, when i should memorize... haste, for instance, or glibness (those two are currently my choices).

Saph
2010-02-21, 11:40 AM
Well, if the bard has prestige classed into something like Lyric Thaumaturge or another PrC that doesn't boost bardic music progression, his Inspire Courage modifier will probably be unimpressive. So there is a use for these spells if you're playing a spell bard rather than a music bard.

Dimers
2010-02-21, 02:18 PM
You can use the spell on someone who'll be separated from the party; you can use the benefits in sneaky situations once it's cast; it lasts within a silenced area; you might have feats or class features that require you to use up songs-per-day, like Seeker of the Song, Sublime Chord or Virtuoso; it can potentially have metamagic applied to it; it can be made into an item; it lasts even if your bard is knocked out, dominated, etc. Seems like enough reason to have those effects available as a spell. I agree that it seems like a poor choice for you, though.