Printing Press

[Dr.Epic]

So in my current history class were in the Renaissance and I got an idea. What if I create a primitive printing machine for a D&D campaign to allow wizards to more easily make spell books and scrolls? I'm looking for some suggestions on this. My main concern is that this would be possible (like it needs a special kind of ink a printing press would be able to handle or spell books could only be done by hand by people who know those spells).

[drengnikrafe]

I feel like part of the reason that scrolls and spellbooks work are because they are instilled with magical power that is added in the writing. Which is why writing 8 inches of words on a parchment takes 8 hours. Also, you need to instill a little bit of your soul into it scrolls (IE: experience). Not to mention if you find some low-cost way to push scrolls, magic will suddenly become common useage, and the world would turn into a Tippyverse, or something like that. Also, spellbooks contain some sort of personal note, I imagine, which is why you need a spellcraft check to use a different wizard's spellbook (if I recall correctly).

[Swordgleam]

I think you could make it work by ritually infusing the dies with power before each print. That would represent the time, xp cost, etc. It would be slower than printing non-magical texts, but faster than hand writing a scroll.

And because the dies would be magic and re-empowered between each run, no two scrolls would be exactly the same, so a spellcraft check would still be needed. I can just imagine watching the dies writhe around in their settings, changing a rune here and a sigil there..

[kaiguy]

The way I've always thought about magic in D&D is a system pretty much like Roger Zelazny's in the last five Amber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Amber)books. Basically, you can infuse words with power, and leave them ready to go with just a couple "lynchpin" words ready to trigger them. This explains the preparation of spells, why they're gone after a single use - a lot of stuff. (There probably exist better and more succinct descriptions of magic in the Amber books, sorry if mine description is confusing.)

In those books, a wizard with a BS in computer science creates a computer that can do magic, but said computer becomes sentient.

I think that's the crux of the printing press - the words on the page aren't magical unless inscribed magically. So a magical printing press is possible, if it's a sentient construct; at least, that's one way to do it.

[Gralamin]

And because the dies would be magic and re-empowered between each run, no two scrolls would be exactly the same, so a spellcraft check would still be needed. I can just imagine watching the dies writhe around in their settings, changing a rune here and a sigil there..

What if you combine it with a Schema (Basically a Reusable Scroll) from Eberron? Charge it with the Schema, and then use the charged ink to write.

[Flickerdart]

I think that's the crux of the printing press - the words on the page aren't magical unless inscribed magically. So a magical printing press is possible, if it's a sentient construct; at least, that's one way to do it.
An Artificer Golem with a built-in Crafting Homunculus churning our scrolls?

[JoshuaZ]

So in my current history class were in the Renaissance and I got an idea. What if I create a primitive printing machine for a D&D campaign to allow wizards to more easily make spell books and scrolls? I'm looking for some suggestions on this. My main concern is that this would be possible (like it needs a special kind of ink a printing press would be able to handle or spell books could only be done by hand by people who know those spells).

I'm not sure this is possible.

There's an official Forgotten Realms story (in either Realms of Magic or Realms of Valor) which states officially that printing presses cannot duplicate magical writing but an explanation is never given.

Given that you need to know a spell in order to scribe it to a spellbook or scroll, it isn't unreasonable to say that the process requires you to imbue it with magical energy and that that would be difficult for someone just using a printing press. But you might be able to do so if some sort of modified press or if you were able to channel the energy the correct way. I have no idea what the relevant mechanics would be.

Note also that an old-style printing press is a lot of work. Just to set-up and operate one would likely take many ranks in relevant skills (Craft skills and possibly Profession skills). It takes a lot of time to set it up even for a single page (this actually leads to a related issue if the scribing of scrolls requires complicated symbols that interlock or the like then movable type won't be practically usable for scrolls. This would remove much but not all of the advantage of being able to print scrolls).

[oxybe]

from our 3.5 game

3000gp = a continuous slotless item of Amanuensis (Spell Compendium) (cost estimate: a 0-level spell [0.5] x caster level 1 x 2000gp x2 [slotless]x1.5[duration 10min/level])

also known as the Shump's Xerox Machine.

it's a 2 part item:

a left hand with a glass eye to crawl around and "scan" the words on a chosen page and a right hand holding a quill that never needs refilling that copies what the glass eye is scanning. the hands will automatically flip pages until the last cover is flipped

all you need is one guy to pass the book underneath it and it will copy until done.

and that's how my warlock invented Kinkos. also, got a library.

EDIT: oh, copy magical writing... dunno if that's possible by the rules. i don't remember seeing a spell that does that, though i could be wrong.

[bosssmiley]

So in my current history class were in the Renaissance and I got an idea. What if I create a primitive printing machine for a D&D campaign to allow wizards to more easily make spell books and scrolls? I'm looking for some suggestions on this.

Read Terry Pratchett's "The Truth". The core conceit of the book is:


What would wizards do if dwarves invented movable type?


"What if the movable type used to create copies of spells remembered? What would that do when you used those letters to print a recipe book?"

[endoperez]

Read Terry Pratchett's "The Truth". The core conceit of the book is:


What would wizards do if dwarves invented movable type?

Not really. That's mentioned, certainly, and the background info on engraving versus printing is relevant, but the book's about newspapers, not magic books.

[Thurbane]

I think the 2E supplement A Mighty Fortress (or possibly one of the other era-based splats for 2E) had rules for using a printing press to produce magical writings, but I don't know if this would translate well to later editions...

[Jack_Simth]

So in my current history class were in the Renaissance and I got an idea. What if I create a primitive printing machine for a D&D campaign to allow wizards to more easily make spell books and scrolls? I'm looking for some suggestions on this. My main concern is that this would be possible (like it needs a special kind of ink a printing press would be able to handle or spell books could only be done by hand by people who know those spells).
Assuming 3.5...

With scrolls, crafting a scroll expends the spell, just like casting it would - which means, quite clearly, that it's not just ink on a page. A prepared spell is bound to it (plus, you know, it radiates magic).

A spellbook is a different story - the materials themselves are actually MORE expensive (100 gp/page, 1 page/spell level, vs. 12.5*caster level * spell level - and this is ignoring time and XP) than scrolls (up until you either pick up a copy of Baccob's Blessed Book, or reach about 5th level spells). But spellbooks, while magical writing, do not show up under Detect Magic - there's no entry.

Figuring out whether or not a spellbook page printing press is even possible first requires an answer as to what, EXACTLY a page on a spellbook is. One page of writing requires 100 gp in materials. Considering that's two pounds of gold, you could pretty much plate the page in gold for less cost (probably platinum, too). So what is it? Without an answer to that question, the question of whether or not you can make a printing press cannot be answers. Which means check with your DM. I've always treated it as painted magical circuitry (with gold, platinum, and rarer things used to control the flows of magic) that is powered by the Wizard during preparation time. If that's the case, the printing press could, in theory, work for spellbooks... but at best, you'll be getting the "copy a spellbook" price-break, and MAYBE saving a little time... once it's fully up and running.

[Dimers]

So in my current history class were in the Renaissance and I got an idea. What if I create a primitive printing machine for a D&D campaign to allow wizards to more easily make spell books and scrolls? I'm looking for some suggestions on this. My main concern is that this would be possible (like it needs a special kind of ink a printing press would be able to handle or spell books could only be done by hand by people who know those spells).

As I see it, the point of mass-printing techniques is to save time and preserve accuracy while making hundreds of copies. If your goal is to make books and scrolls more easily, unless it's on a "university of magic" scale, a printing press is going to be slower because it requires so much setup (to say nothing of the initial expense of the machine itself). I can imagine wizards and sorcerers infusing special magical inks with the power to create scrolls, though again, only a large-scale operation makes this sensible.

Your idea also brings up the question of whether there's a single arcane "alphabet" that everyone knows how to use. Yes, because everyone can read scrolls without translation? No, because you have to use Spellcraft to read someone else's spellbook? :smallconfused:

[Tyndmyr]

Not really. That's mentioned, certainly, and the background info on engraving versus printing is relevant, but the book's about newspapers, not magic books.

It's in there though. Discworld, interestingly enough, also has a computer made sentient by wizards. Sort of. It also has spells that vanish from your head when cast and so forth. Im presuming the guy has at least a passing familiarity with D&D.

[Frozen_Feet]

Eh, in Discworld all books are magic. Put enough in closed space and you create a black hole or something.

A magical printing press would likely cause all sorts of problems. I'm not talking about problems like "revolutionizing use of magic". I'm talking about problems like "Why is my cook book alive?" and "AAAAH! The letters turned into small demons! Quick, someone fetch an exorcist!"

[ScionoftheVoid]

Eh, in Discworld all books are magic. Put enough in closed space and you create a black hole or something.

A magical printing press would likely cause all sorts of problems. I'm not talking about problems like "revolutionizing use of magic". I'm talking about problems like "Why is my cook book alive?" and "AAAAH! The letters turned into small demons! Quick, someone fetch an exorcist!"

Putting enough mass of anything together and you get a black hole. Put enough books together and you get L-space. Your problems are also the reasons why Disc wizards did not wish to use printing methods. The fact that plenty of magic books are dangerous enough singular probably also had something to do with it (the Necrotelicomnicon is chained down in a room on it's own and one magic tome equivalent to the BoEF is kept in a case of ice cubes, IIRC. The Discworld series is good. Having read 37 of the books, which may be all of them, probably justifies my saying that. YMMV of course).

[Randel]

Well, Eberron has the Dedicated Wright homunculus which works on magic items while the artificer is off adventuring.

Then there are three feats which reduce the gold cost, xp cost, and the time to create magic items by 25%.

I would say that a magical printing press would kind of be a combination of all of those put together but only for scrolls and other magical writing.

So, you pay all the gold and xp cost for the scrolls, set up the typesetting for the scroll in question and then it can print them out faster and cheaper than normal.

So, you could select the most popular scrolls that need casting and print them out en mass. Most popular ones would be those that either don't have expensive material components or maybe some more expensive ones like Raise Dead where there aren't that many clerics who can cast them.

Yeah, Raise Dead scrolls could be useful since not many clerics can cast it normally and I think any 1st level cleric can cast it from a scroll. What's a little extra cost added due to it being in a scroll?

[Debihuman]

It depends on the type of world you want to create. In a world where magic is as commonplace as breathing, a printing press that makes scrolls isn't a problem. In a magic scarce world, it probably isn't appropriate.

Obviously a normal printing press can't create magical effects, but one blessed by a priest probably could. Such presses might still be extremely rare. Treat the magical printing press as you would any other magical item.

How fast can it make a scroll? How many different scrolls can it make? Only one or several? I could see a whole organization of clerics that relies on such a press to make scrolls that it sells at reduced rates. There might be a chance that the printing is off -- badly inked for example -- so the scrolls have a tiny failure rate, unlike hand-written scrolls. You have a lot of options just think about what effect this has on the world. Is your society literate enough for this?

Just my 2 cents.

Debby